For those that asked why the ins. industry was AGAINST the hcr bill

[mdmc]

Insurers Back Effort to Make Health Care Reform Succeed
http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100324/us_time/08599197475700
The health-insurance industry, which spent months campaigning against Democratic health reform, has shifted focus in the wake of its passage, pivoting from opposition to making sure the new law succeeds beyond most expectations.


America's Health Insurance Plans (AHIP), the industry trade group, has agreed to sign on to a new, 50-state health care reform implementation effort, provisionally called Enroll America, which is being organized by Ron Pollack of the pro-reform group Families USA. "We are participating in it," says AHIP spokesman Robert Zirkelbach. "The goal is to get everyone covered." (Watch TIME's video "The Story of an Uninsured Woman.")

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After all, the goal is to get everyone covered via for-profit health insurance. The goal is not to provide everyone with access to affordable medical treatment..

[Lint Head]

1. Exactly. I know personally this is true. 'Preexisting condition' is a term

and concept invented by the insurance industry to make a profit. It was not coined by the medical profession.

[liberalhistorian]

39. And it is also virtually unknown in the other industrialized

countries that actually are civilized enough to ensure that all citizens are afforded access to the care they need instead of pouring money into for-profit bloodsucking vulture insurance companies who will then use every trick possible to get your money but deny care when it is needed. They also shake their heads in disgust at the very idea of PEC's.

[Triana]

2. The goal is to get everyone's MONEY. n/t

[Uncle Joe]

15. Ding Ding Ding, Bingo, Hear Hear, +1 etc. etc. etc. n/t

[stray cat]

3. affordable medical treatment is a contradiction - if you ever need real care for something serious

someone has to pay - if you can't or won't pay for yourself. We already mandate treatment at public hospitals if people can't pay which mean the rest of us have a mandate to pay or the medical personal have a mandate to work without pay.

[RaleighNCDUer]

6. True - and the way it is set up now we pay the INSURANCE COMPANIES

who skim off 30%, who then pay the hospitals and physicians.

We just set in concrete the middle-man ripoff.

[liberalhistorian]

40. Correction: only emergency stablilizing treatment is

mandated and nothing else. Hospitals can and will kick you to the curb after you're "stabilized" if you have no insurance or no money. It's not like you can get needed cancer care or anything like that.

[zipplewrath]

4. They hate the regulation, they love the profit

This was an insurance industry stimulus package. They love the profits it will bring them. They aren't crazy about federal regulation. They do love being defined as a legal obligation of all citizens. They also liked it that actual health CARE was not defined as a right.

[babylonsister]

5. Their lobbyists failed. Seems like they have little choice now

but to participate.

[kenny blankenship]

9. They have little choice but to participate under the law one of their VPs wrote?

Oh it's terrible for them. They'll have to find the strength to carry on...somewhere.

[pampango]

11. At least the OP confirms that the insurance companies spent months (and millions of dollars)

lobbying against the reform bill. Now that they failed to defeat it, at least they admit defeat and move on.

At this point I'm madder at those who fought the bill and are still fighting it even though it is now law (those suing to get the law declared unconstitutional and those who will run against the law in November in the hopes of repealing it) than I am at those who are "pivoting from opposition to making sure the new law succeeds beyond most expectations".

[mdmc]

12. Do you really think that they failed?

It seems to me, imho, that they wrote the bill. I concede that they hate to be regulated, but knew that this bill would eventually become law, and wrote it to their advantage.

[pampango]

14. They didn't "know" this bill would become law. A couple of months ago it looked dead in the water.

If they wrote it to their own advantage, they should have slipped a note to the republicans so they could switch positions.

[Uncle Joe]

17. When did it look dead in the water and who said it was dead? n/t

[pampango]

19. When Brown got elected in Massachusetts, we lost our tenuous supermajority in the Senate,

and there was plenty of discussion on how to proceed - drop it, full speed ahead and make the repubs kill it, or go with a much more limited reform bill.

Surely you remember the hoopla surrounding Brown running against health care, winning Kennedy's seat and taking the 60th vote in the Senate to give the filibuster back to the republicans. I'd say the anti-reform folks were on a roll then. Even though HCR bills had passed both houses nothing happened for several weeks since House Democrats hated the Senate bill, but knew that substantial changes would never get through the "new look" Senate, until Obama, Pelosi and Reid came up with the strategy that is playing out now.

[Uncle Joe]

23. I remember Brown winning after it passed both houses and only 51 votes were needed, that's far from

dead in the water.

Could a strong national public option have been passed through reconciliation with just 51 votes?

[TorchTheWitch]

42. what do you think lobbyists DO?

Of course they knew the bill would pass. They spent all that money making all those backroom deals buying the votes to get exactly what they wanted passed. THIS is why our government is so damn corrupt and we will never have anything different until we clean out this bribery and fix the campaign finance laws. THIS is why people go into politics anymore. Not because they want to be civil servants and have ideals... they get into it for the backroom deals that enrich them personally... money, gifts, stocks, cushy future employment... there's really no end to the riches that can be made selling your votes.

[JuniperLea]

16. Why spend all that money to fight the bill?

I think they realized they either go with the flow or get side-stepped.

[Uncle Joe]

18. Because of public consumption, they had to, can you imagine the reaction and red flags popping up

with the American People if this most "despised entity" hadn't opposed this bill particularly after "Harry and Louise."

They also wanted to make sure a strong national public option was dead, it seems they got their wish.

[JuniperLea]

20. They spent a hell of a lot of money to play a red herring like that...

I'm not so sure.

And a public option wouldn't have hurt them anymore than mandated insurance... there's still a need for insurance... and claims processing.

[laughingliberal]

22. They have a lot to spend

and the public option is what they were fighting. Claims processing pays not nearly as well as claims denial which is their business model, now. They did not want to be forced to compete with a public plan which is not paying huge executive compensation or shareholder dividends.

[JuniperLea]

27. Then why wait until so late in the game to support this?

The PO was dead long before their tide turned.

[Uncle Joe]

28. I don't believe the for profit "health" insurance industry viewed the P.O.

as dead until the Senate passed it's bill and sent it to Obama to sign, it was always a possibility up until then.

[laughingliberal]

29. Did you not notice even a few weeks ago there were groups still working on a PO

Once Brown won MA and the Senate had to go with a reconciliation package, there was a serious threat a PO could creep back in. We no longer needed 60 votes. And I believe there have always been 50. And the House had already passed one. It took serious maneuvering, in fact, to keep it out.

The other issues they were concerned about was making sure they MLR was not set any higher than 85%. As long as they had the threat that they could spend millions in ad campaigns to defeat reform they were able to keep getting one concession after another until they had the bill they wanted. And they did want some sort of bill. You can't tell me an industry which is about to lose 11 million customers a year for 20 years didn't want a mandate.

[slipslidingaway]

35. They ran ads last year in support of health care reform, google AHIP

and insurance ads or Pharma and Harry and Louise.

They played both sides to get what they wanted - to silence and or divert the majority of people from a national, not for profit HC system.

Now the PO is out and they are left with what they said they wanted before Obama ever took office!

They won and the people were offered some crumbs, no doubt people will be helped by those crumbs and in some cases this will save lives, but the bottom line for them is they are still making profits and still in control.

And many people will still struggle to pay for deductibles and premiums, just try the 11,900 max out of pocket family deductible for a few years and many people will still be in trouble.

[pampango]

21. So they opposed the bill, but just for show. Spent millions on anti-reform ads, but just for show.

Paid the republicans to vote unanimously against it, but just for show.

If we're going to go with this scenario, perhaps they also pressured Obama to deal with Kucinich and Stupak, among others, otherwise their whole "show" plan would have gone up in smoke by a few votes. Damn they are good!

[laughingliberal]

24. They are good

Ignagni was assuring reporters back in August she was fully confident the President would honor his promises to AHIP. Putting on a show of resistance just allowed them to keep the bill pushed as far to the right as they wanted it.

You may, also, remember there was a period of time when they ran some Harry and Louise ads supporting reform. Remember? "A little less politics, a little more cooperation, and we can get it done." Or did those not run where you are?

[Uncle Joe]

26. It's all relative, they will be making billions from this ever growing government enforced mandate

and they knew it.

The Republicans voted against it for political purposes, they knew mandates with out a strong national public option was unpopular with the general populace, across the board.

Their partisans will be fired up, and the corporate media will make sure they stay fired up, mostly by only reporting criticism from a right wing perspective while ignoring that of the left.

They also know it benefits the only constituents; they truly care about for profit corporations, they want to privatize everything under the sun, mandating that health coverage be for profit does just that.

I don't know what Obama's motivations were, did he sell out this past August to for profit hospitals, or has he been brain washed by the constant conflict of interest saturated corporate media propaganda and Washington Bubble courtesans in to believing A. He must pass an HCR bill or his Presidency would be considered a failure and/or that B. a strong national public option was impossible to pass?

[mdmc]

33. "we only make a 2% profit margin!"

cause they spend millions on lobbying..

[mdmc]

32. "they only have a 2% profit margin!"

(because they spend so much money fighting the bill)

[eridani]

37. If you are an institution rated a lot lower than pond scum by the public

--the only way to get something you want passed is to oppose it.

[backscatter712]

31. Exactly. They poured millions into the US Chamber of Commerce to run attack ads.

They wanted to kill health care reform, but didn't want their own fingerprints on the murder weapon.

Now they're pretending to play along while looking for new ways to game the system.

[Political Heretic]

47. THEY DID BOTH. FFS no wonder our country is so fucked up

...people can't even figure out how the major players operate.

They bet BOTH sides of the game. The strategy is not to bank everything on one outcome. No, the strategy is to control the ENTIRE game so that ANY OUTCOME FAVORS YOU.

Why can people not get this?

Can you just think like a CEO for a minute? If I were a CEO of a large insurance company, I would have spent money on campaigns to stop reform, because the current system is pretty good for me. But then I would also work hard to ensure that I had a hand in writing any reform bill, in killing any really negative parts of reform, and securing backroom guarantees against any reform threating some key areas.

So that if reform failes, I win. If reform passes, I win.

WAKE THE FUCK UP.

[eridani]

36. Sob. They have to obey a law personallly written by a Wellpoint VP

PLEASE don't throw us into that briar patch!

[Political Heretic]

45. That's why their lobbyist sent the "WE WIN!" memo out to company and colleges..

Remember that?

[Toasterlad]

52. Their Lobbyists Succeeded Beyond Their Wildest Dreams

They got most all meaningful regulation removed from the bill. The only thing that didn't completely go their way was that now, instead of suffering no consequences for denying treatment for pre-existing conditions, they now have to pay $100 a day in fines if they deny treatment...which is usually still cheaper than paying for the treatment.

They bitterly fought for NO restrictions right up til the end, which is why they were said to be "against" the bill, but they are thrilled with the end result. So now they can get to work exploiting all the possibilities this bill will offer them, thanks to the shackling of the American people to this corrupt and soulless industry.

[Robb]

7. I think they see the writing on the wall

...and are out to make as much as they can before the hammer comes down. Call me an optimist or whatever you'd like, but PO is dead ahead, and that spells the end of private insurance companies eventually, no matter how it's diluted.

[MajorChode]

30. Indeed

Even if you look at the short term effects and disregard the threat of PO, health insurers have a vested interest in making this bill work. Now that they can't deny coverage based on preexisting conditions and other high risk situations, the best way to spread that risk out is to recruit more enrollment.

Considering PO, that threat will be looming over their heads from now on regardless of whether it actually materializes or not (and it most likely will).

[slipslidingaway]

8. AHIP Statement - Nov. 2008 - Coverage for Pre-Existing Conditions and Individual Mandate

Health Plans Propose Guaranteed Coverage for Pre-Existing Conditions and Individual Coverage Mandate
http://www.ahip.org/content/pressrelease.aspx?docid=25068

"Washington, DC – Health plans today proposed guaranteed coverage for people with pre-existing medical conditions in conjunction with an enforceable individual coverage mandate...


...Health plans also said that premium support for moderate-income individuals and broad spreading of risk was necessary to promote affordability and maintain premium stability in the individual health insurance market.

To ensure that all Americans can access coverage, health plans also reiterated their long-standing support for making eligible for Medicaid every uninsured American living in poverty and strengthening the Children’s Health Insurance Program.

“No one should fall through the cracks of our health care system,” said Karen Ignagni, President and CEO of America’s Health Insurance Plans (AHIP). “Universal coverage is within reach and can be achieved by building on the current system.”


...“AHIP’s Board of Directors is responding to the concerns of the American people by offering a workable solution to ensure that no one is left out of the health care system because of their health, age, income or employment status,” said Ignagni.

The new proposal builds on the series of comprehensive reform plans that AHIP’s Board of Directors began releasing in November 2006. Further reform proposals addressing the affordability, accessibility and quality of health care are anticipated in the weeks ahead..."

[kenny blankenship]

10. I see, they just want to help us! They have helped us

by helping us help them to help themselves.

I hope nobody needs it pointed out to them that this spokescreature for the insurance mafia sounds exactly like people at the top of our party gushing about how great this new law is.

[slipslidingaway]

13. We are so fortunate to have them on our side :) Uniquely American Solution by Karen Ignagni

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Content/Publications/Commentaries/2009/Apr/Uniquely-American-Solution.aspx

Uniquely American Solution: Collaboration, Leadership Required to Bring Change

April 27, 2009
Author(s): Karen Ignagni

"Significant consensus has emerged that health care reform, which has eluded our nation for almost a century, should be enacted this year, and that bold changes are necessary to ensure high-quality, affordable health care for all Americans...

...In moving to pass legislation this year, Congress can create a uniquely American solution by encouraging and expecting uniquely American stakeholder responsibility."


And by passing legislation this year they have delayed a national, not for profit system.

"spokescreature" :evilgrin:

It is all good, no need to point out the similar phrases.

:)

[liberalhistorian]

41. So Karen Ignagni says that "no one should fall

through the cracks of our health care system?" Really? This bitch has spent fifteen or so years bending over for insurance companies, and working against that very thing. NOW she says this shit? Yeah, right. Hypocritical bitch.

[slipslidingaway]

43. The thing is, she said this before Obama took office ...

they got what they wanted, an individual mandate in exchange for covering pre-existing conditions.

The real culprit was a national, not for profit HC. Not to worry, the Dems took that off the table ...just as they did with impeachment.

:(

[Ignis]

25. "Oh please, please don't throw us in the briar patch!"

How can you tell that insurance industry execs are lying? Their lips are moving.

[mdmc]

34. jajajaja

[slipslidingaway]

38. Bingo! n/t

[Political Heretic]

44. It's a lie anyway, the truth is that they did both - the bet both sides. It was win/win for them.

[mdmc]

50. yupyupyup

[Unvanguard]

46. They are scared, and rightly so.

The mandates, in the long term, mean that greater and greater regulatory restraints will be placed on the insurance companies unless they cooperate: this will no longer be something that can be shelved, but a political necessity. Being smart enough not to expect repeal, the insurance companies are instead attempting to improve their public image and prevent this eventuality; they know how to play the game, and in this case, it is a win-win.

[Political Heretic]

48. Delusional.

It was a win / win for them before there was ever even a vote.

The law does not contain substantive regulation, it does mandate millions more customers.

If nothing had passed then the current system was working find for them.

But they worked very hard and had the ear of both congress and the white house in making sure that if something passed it would primarily benefit them as well.

[laughingliberal]

49. Anyone else remember they wanted stiffer penalties for those who did not comply with the mandate?

Any questions?

[lumberjack_jeff]

51. There are new rules. If they fail, the next step is the public option.

If that fails, it's single payer.

They didn't want this bill to succeed, but it did. They now are motivated to avoid even worse outcomes.

They are motivated for this to work as well as possible.