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Pro-single-payer doctors: Health bill leaves 23 million uninsured

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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 03:14 PM
Original message
Pro-single-payer doctors: Health bill leaves 23 million uninsured

# About 23 million people will remain uninsured nine years out. That figure translates into an estimated 23,000 unnecessary deaths annually and an incalculable toll of suffering.
# Millions of middle-income people will be pressured to buy commercial health insurance policies costing up to 9.5 percent of their income but covering an average of only 70 percent of their medical expenses, potentially leaving them vulnerable to financial ruin if they become seriously ill. Many will find such policies too expensive to afford or, if they do buy them, too expensive to use because of the high co-pays and deductibles.
# Insurance firms will be handed at least $447 billion in taxpayer money to subsidize the purchase of their shoddy products. This money will enhance their financial and political power, and with it their ability to block future reform.

more...........















http://www.pnhp.org/news/2010/march/pro-single-payer-do...
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. This article by this fringe group is no better the 6th or 7th time it is being posted
The AMA supports the bill and that says more than a handful of doctors.
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bluethruandthru Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. PNHP is not a fringe group. n/t
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. more from the site
Similarly, the expansion of Medicaid - a woefully underfunded program that provides substandard care for the poor - could have been done separately, along with an increase in federal appropriations to upgrade its quality.

But instead the Congress and the Obama administration have saddled Americans with an expensive package of onerous individual mandates, new taxes on workers' health plans, countless sweetheart deals with the insurers and Big Pharma, and a perpetuation of the fragmented, dysfunctional, and unsustainable system that is taking such a heavy toll on our health and economy today.
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robinblue Donating Member (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-10 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
41. Only in your imagination.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. They've been arrested for their cause in defense of the people. Have you?
:popcorn:
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brooklynite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. How did getting arrested help advance their goal?
Edited on Tue Mar-23-10 03:56 PM by brooklynite
The bottom line is, they have to convince 216 Democratic Congressmen and 51 Democratic Senators to vote with them. They haven't been able to do it in over a year. And arguing that the "No" votes blocking Single-Payer are Corporatist DINO's may make you feel better, but it's not changing the result.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Only time will tell
There were many years of people protesting and going to jail for it before we reached a level of awareness in this country which allowed us to pass civil rights legislation.

Same with the labor movement. Many people went out on strike, demonstrated, were arrested, died, before we won some rights for workers.

Sadly, looks like we will need to refight some of those battles in the future (especially for workers' rights) as Americans have become complacent and allowed us to track backwards in the name of pragmatic deal making. 1 step forward, 2 steps back. And why? Cause people today ask questions like, "how did getting arrested help..."

When do we learn what Dean told us a while back? If you give them a seat at the table, they will eat all the food.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. The AMA has opposed all public plans, including Medicare
in the U.S. and single payer in Canada.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/06/why...

Which is all to say, of course the American Medical Association is opposed to the public plan. It has opposed all public plans proposed by all presidents in all contexts. The AMA opposed national health care as proposed by Harry Truman ("all forms of security, compulsory security, even against old age and unemployment, represent a beginning invasion by the state into the personal life of the individual, represent a taking away of individual responsibility, a weakening of national caliber, a definite step toward either communism or totalitarianism"), and Medicare and Medicaid as envisioned by John F. Kennedy. And it will oppose the public plan now.


http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,835949...

It was an ironic accident of timing. The American Medical Association's 115th annual convention in Chicago last week wound up just in time for the doctors to go home to deal with the consequences of Medicare, the social security-administered medical insurance that so many of them had fought against so vehemently and so long.



They have always been on the wrong side of this issue - for their own profits and against greater public benefit.


Speaking of fringe, the AMA were the ones who helped jumpstart Reagan's political career, by producing Operation Coffeecup opposing Medicare:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rj-eskow/operation-coffee...

The war against Medicare dated back to the 1940's, when Harry S. Truman attempted to to create a national health insurance system. (Yes, this debate's been going on intermittently for more than half a century.) He encountered a well-organized and financed opposition that included insurers, large corporations, the American Medical Association ... and the usual conservative interests of the time.

~~~

A series of incremental reforms were passed in 1960 creating the "Old Age Assistance" and "Medical Assistance for the Aged" programs, but these extended only limited coverage. When John F. Kennedy became President in January 1961, he began to work for comprehensive health coverage for both elderly and low-income Americans.

Enter the AMA. As Skidmore and Larry de Witt recount, Ronald Reagan was hired as part of a covert campaign to undermine support for Medicare and Medicaid. "Operation Coffeecup" was born.




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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Yes. They tend to be doctors of the Chamber of Commerce variety. nt
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. And the AMA's membership is declining

and is increasingly made up of students and retirees, not active doctors
http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/AMA/6006

Note, recent estimates range even lower, only from 15 - 25% of doctors being AMA members.


Meanwhile, the public and the medical community is increasingly supporting single payer.

http://www.wpasinglepayer.org/PollResults.html

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/588331

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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Yes. Last I heard was 19%. nt
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
36. Sure. The 59% of doctors who favor single payer are "fringe" n/t
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
37. AMA has a long history of resisting health care reforms.
Are the single-payer docs a bit too "mavericky" for you, then?
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unapatriciated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-10 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
38. Ah Yes the AMA
They have long supported Universal Health Care :sarcasm:
Yes it does say a lot if the AMA supports it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCqA4QhfXHA
but what the heck we can't have the evils of socialism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs

Sorry but the AMA's opinion is not something I respect.
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ipaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-10 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
42. LOL. nt
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. The article doesn't specify who those 23 million are.
Illegal immigrants, perhaps?
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
6. if i didn't know better i'd think you keep repeating yourself.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
8. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
29. Nothing shocks me anymore. nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
31. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
9. K&InvisibleR
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
11. K&R
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
12. One; "$447 billion in taxpayer money to subsidize the purchase of their shoddy products"
And two; The only thing this so-called insurance bill does is block every avenue of escape from the corporatocracy for the bill payers (us).

There is no health care in this bill, there are no enforceable restrictions of the insurance companies (give the corporate lawyers a year), this is the legislation that future republican'ts will use for decades to keep power.

Congratulations.


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d_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
13. May they die quickly.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. What about costs to bury them? Quick! Mandate life insurance
just in case:

:sarcasm:
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d_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. derrrpp my favrite pickchure of all tyem
Edited on Tue Mar-23-10 03:47 PM by d_b



i so hapee we dliver helthkare 4 all dad the werk iz ovur

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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. ...
I Can Has Presdency 2012?

Yes, you can has!
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
14. Let them eat aspirin.......If they can afford it. K&R
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. have you bought aspirin lately?
:rofl:
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
15. K and R (nt)
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
17. k/r
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
19. K & R nt
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
20. I completely support their stance in favor of Single Payer, however,
given that we don't even know what will be in the final version of the Reconciliation Bill, I think these numbers are premature. Also, do they seriously think that, if the law leaves that many uninsured, that WE THE PEOPLE will ignore the fact and not force improvements before nine years is up?
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. is single payer in the reconciliation bill?
NO.

But let's call those 23 million people selfish because they worry about their situations. Right?
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. Those 23 million don't exist except in your fevered imagination.
We've got 32 million who RIGHT NOW are likely to get coverage. If that doesn't pan out, then we work to improve things.

Some of us understand that wanting instant gratification is for the immature. And I say this as someone who very well may fall through the cracks and remain uninsured, but I am NOT going to begrudge those who DO get it.

But carry on with your bitter hatred of all things and persons mainstream Democratic.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
22. ALSO: It make Americans collectively pay $400 billion more for health care a year
Which could be saved according to the NEJM with a switch to single-payer.

You are telling poor people to pay for this premium too, who will have plans that are not equal to rich people.

So while people here kick the poor around like political footballs, they don't give a damn that they have to pay a large sum such that private shareholders continue to get their due.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #22
34. But hey, in some cases some of us may get 35% tax credits
Edited on Tue Mar-23-10 09:52 PM by truedelphi
To help us pay the inflated premiums' prices.

I'll take it. That will be far better than the $ 2,000 in deductions I recouped when I was paying $ 12K a year.

Of course, the CEOs don't even worry about the taxes on their huge bonuses. Which they need to help pay the lobbyists that Congress needs to help them maintain the campaign chests, which the media needs so they can tell us whom to vote for, and how the latest news about Tiger Woods is that he's sorry, while ...

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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-10 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
35. K&R
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liberal_at_heart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-10 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
39. K&R for single payer!
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robinblue Donating Member (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-10 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. YES.
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thotzRthingz Donating Member (585 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-10 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
43. "23 million people will be uninsured by 2019" -- that number is straight out of the CBO's estimates!
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