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"I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions that the left wanted" - Barack Obama

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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 07:56 AM
Original message
"I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions that the left wanted" - Barack Obama
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 08:16 AM by boston bean
Obama, March 17, 2010

Now, we can fix this in a way that is sensible, that is centrist. I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions that the left wanted that are you know, they were very adamant about because I thought it would be too disruptive to the system.



I love how the left (a pretty big part of the democratic party) is used as cannon fodder by both the Republicans and the head of the Democratic Party.

One side bludgeons, screaming, your a communist socialist dictator and the other side defends itself by saying no I'm not, no I'm not, I rejected a whole bunch of lefty ideas.

I am so sick of this shit!
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. Me too. The question going forward is how many registered
Democrats are too.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
65. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #65
86. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #65
93. !!!
"We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. Necessitous men are not free men. People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for allregardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being."
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 05:26 AM
Response to Reply #93
612. The First term will be the Last and Only term.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #65
171. How about the" American Progressive Party"
so that the disabled and retirees would feel included? We need to do something to gain representation again.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #171
229. Anti-union and anti-worker folks would be included under "progressive", though.
The disabled work and retirees are older workers who need their benefits protected. There have been plenty of posts here discussing how the health insurance bill is "progressive." I vote for workers. In a better society, the disabled wouldn't be forced out of the working class into poverty anyway.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #229
267. There's no such thing as an "anti-worker" progressive
and don't allow anyone to tell you otherwise.
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #267
293. Then you don't know the history of the term
"Progressive" doesn't always mean what you think it means, unfortunately.
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pundaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #293
322. OK you're out
just kidding, but let's not get tangled up in semantics.
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #322
360. I don't recall being "in!"
Folks of my shade don't usually make it past the coat room unless we've got some unmarked bills to pass out, after all!

I personally favor the "labor party". You say "progressive" and people say "what's a progressive!" and hten you get ten people offering fifteen definitions and it's a mess.

Labor though, everyone knows what labor is and what it means. And it doesn't exclude the retired or the unemployed or even the young, because everyone has been, or will be, a worker of some variety in our society.
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pundaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #360
362. I've been trying to convince hip programmer types that unions would be in their
interest but Labor doesn't sound trendy enough. We just need to own and defend all of them to the extent they mean building and caring for a sustainable strong community.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #362
518. LOL, I know just what you mean. A few of us tried for several years in the mid/late 90's,
and it sounds like you got the same response we did. They're all so sure that they are super talented and super smart and nothing will happen to them.

"Youth is wasted on the young."


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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #293
361. I think you are confusing progressive with neo-liberal, as in Churchillian "liberal"
Show me a single progressive political party that has had anti-labor elements as part of its ethos..
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #361
363. The one Theodore Roosevelt ran in
Of course, that's primarily if you compare that progressive Party to the socialist party of the era. The idea of TR's progressive party was to be a bunch of corporate-friendly centrists that still had a bit of room for the working man... So, not a lit different from the current democratic party. Not exactly anti-labor, but didn't really have labor's best interests at heart.

And then you have the soviet definition of "progressive" where it simply meant "whatever the government wants" - and non-progressives, including anyone who tried to organize outside of strict state control, got to mine salt in Siberia.

Current progressives seem to harbor some pretty deep anti-labor antipathy at times as well. You know, because we're scum that can't afford organic foods, don't have the time for mind-opening tai chi, and the like. More of a class divide than anything, but it's noticable.
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #363
367. Dude, the Bull Moose party was most definitively not hostile to labor.
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 04:33 PM by liberation
The platform of the Bull Moose party included, and I quote: "major reforms including women's suffrage, social welfare assistance for women and children, farm relief, revisions in banking, health insurance in industries, and worker's compensation." Heck plenty of labor regulation and nature conservation laws were passed under TR when he presided as a republican. Granted he was a warmonger in terms of his international policies.

You are playing a lot of games with semantics and facts in order to fit your rather dishonest narrative me thinks.
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #367
374. I did qualify the statement, noting that it's "in comparison to the socialist party"
He was more labor-friendly than traditional Republicans and Democrats, but still wasn't quite friendly enough. The progressive party was supposed to be a "middle way" that tried to address the needs of the workers, but do so without cutting at the bosses too much.

But don't let me harsh your sacred chao. ;)
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #374
377. Again, show me a single progressive party which has anti-labor policies as part of their platform
I don't recall asking for tangential arguments, semantical games, and "qualifications."

A very simple request really. Unless, as I said, you are more interested in preserving a specific narrative... :-)
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #377
516. *crickets*
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #377
661. :crickets:
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #361
421. The politics of the early 20th century are not the politics of today.
Of course most progressive parties in the past are pro-labor. But those who call themselves progressive in the US often have no concept of history whatsoever and believe the term progressive equals "socially progressive". I don't have the polls on file, but there was a recent poll showing those who call themselves progressive to answer questions to the political right of those who call themselves liberal (and those who identify as liberal aren't even necessarily very far left.)

I see no reason not to call a new party American Labor or American Workers Party. Actually, I don't really like the "American" part because I'm an internationalist and I'd worry that racist/nationalist elements would disrupt a party so-named.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #293
621. If they don't protect worker's
rights, they are not 'true' progressives.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #267
620. Thank you, Lorien. nt
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Mark D. Donating Member (420 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #65
206. Simpler Idea
The party alread exists in two forms. The Green Party of old, the Coffee Party of today. The latter is intentionally rejecting the 'mad as hell' Tea Party folk who are becoming more GOP every day and the former is in 50 states already. It's already there folks. Simply get them to join forces with the Coffee Party, let that be its publicity wing, let it handle the 'meet-ups' and let the Green Party become the new party of the left. Let Democrats become the 'center' and let the GOP stay on the right with their Tea baggers included. This saves having to 'form' anything, we just use what is there. Yes, Dennis Kucinich would be welcomed there. Let Michael Moore co-head the Coffee Party with the lady who formed it to add to its publicity.
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HillbillyBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #206
372. I think that is a good idea
Now how to implement it? just asking. I know I come across as a critical a hole..I am not really. Just very fed up with voodoo economics and the drizzlin sh&ts from raygun forward.
The nicest dog will bite if kicked often enough.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #206
432. Despite Obama's comment . . . he and Democratic Party are too far to the RIGHT . . .
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 07:01 PM by defendandprotect
to be considered centrist!!

You have an extreme ultra right --

and an almost extreme ultra right now ---


And, I'd suggest that the wars he's continuing to run are "disruptive" --

That wiretapping citizens is "disruptive" --

That unregulated capitalism is organized crime -- and "disruptive" -- !!!!


And, for decades they've been getting away with this!!!

And, his arrogance/confidence seems to suggest that he knows he will continue

to get away with it!!


And, as a lawyer, you would think Obama would notice somehow that corporatism

is "distruptive" to a people's government and democracy!!!


PLEASE, let's get someone like Sen. Bernie Sanders and/or Grayson and/or Kucinich --

someone who at least is trying to be honest -- into the Oval Office in 2012!!!





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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #65
224. At this stage the Green party is probably the way to go. They are.........
........already organized and have a 50 state network. Granted, they are still "green" at this and definitely don't have much money. But their "members" are pretty much always motivated are spread pretty much through the age spectrum (although most tend to be younger). I have been saying a lot lately, ya gotta start somewhere.
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #224
365. They get plenty of money
Particularly from the Republicans. Why? Because they split the democratic base.
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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #365
498. I have heard that before and believe it is way overstated.................
..........If you have any "proof" provide it. I was affiliated with the party during the 2004 election fiasco and ran as Sec of State as a Green and I didn't see a fucking dime from pacs Republicans or the GP. So if you have info, please share or quit making unsubstantiated statements.
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #498
651. Okay
Pennsylvania: http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/0012...
Minnesota: http://minneapolisconfidential.blogspot.com/2007/05/did...
Not "Green", but Greens seem to love Nader: http://articles.sfgate.com/2004-07-09/news/17435056_1_n...
Former green limpets onto right-wing nutball parties: http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/mpls/messages/topi...

I'm sure there's more; I'm just doing a lazy google.
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The Hope Mobile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #224
445. +1. Liking the Green Party a lot these days! nt
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #65
304. In NYS we have The Working Families Party
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #304
422. I really like this party, personally. Voted for them when I lived in the city.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #422
618. I like it too and generally vote on their line
The WFP generally endorses the dem if the dem is not a consevative.
They will primary a con-dem, then run a third party WFP candidate if the dems run a conservative.

What I like about the wfp is that they will talk with the dems and work with the dems. But if the dems dont want to work together, the WFP will do the right thing and run their own candidate..
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pundaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #65
320. Solidarity! er, OK
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HillbillyBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #65
353. Screw inheritance taxes
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 04:08 PM by HillbillyBob
The reason they apply to large estates 2million$ or more is supposed to keep the wealthy from buying our government, then again the rpigs have given tax relief (what a bunch of horse sh*t) to corps and millionaires that outsourced manufacturing jobs.
I say we go back to the old progressive 50% tax on millionaire incomes, instead of 15% for unearned income.'
That inheritance tax relief is a righttard talking point best to drop it.
I m all for living wages. I know how bad it is to try to get by on not enough and having to work 2 and 3 jobs to make ends meet and Im not talking about being able to buy a new car every couple or 3 yrs. Our pickup is 11 years old bought new and taken care of but the oil pump went and blew the motor..now I have no way to buy a new motor let alone a new truck. Our 'new' car is 3 yrs old we traded a 19 yr old van (push pull or drag sale..it barely made it into the dealer..in first gear 29 miles).
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #353
447. We need to reapply the concept of inheritance taxes on the rich . . .
and whatever the tax rates on corporations were in the 1950's . . . pre-Ike --

And, we need to work on a Constitutional amendment to acknowledge there is no such

thing as corporate "personhood" -- !!!

Hope everyone is signing that petition which is at Thom Hartmann's website!

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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #447
622. Yes, everyone.
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Threedifferentones Donating Member (820 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #65
388. Amen olegraps
Really, it is way past time.

Too disruptive to the system?! A system clogged with shit needs to be disrupted!

I VOTED FOR YOU TO DISRUPT, NOT MAINTAIN, THE STATUS QUO.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #388
409. THAT'S what I'm talking about!
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #388
425. +1
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emsimon33 Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #65
493. How about Americans for the People Party?
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 09:05 PM by emsimon33
That way we could also be for retirees, just not the idle rich.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 05:25 AM
Response to Reply #65
610. It's sad that the Democratic Party isn't the American Workers Party :(
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Cary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 05:44 AM
Response to Reply #65
613. Enough maybe to lose elections for Democrats and to win for Republicans
You people have such short memories and are so shortsighted you leave me speechless.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
103. Funny how Op hid it is FOX NEWS EXCLUSIVE, and incomplete quote.
Sorry for the yell, but thought this was important enough to yell up high in the thread. Maybe no one else noticed, maybe someone else might care to see this.

Here is the rest of the reply
OBAMA: the only thing I want to say, just to close up, is that when you talk about one-sixth of the economy, this is one-sixth of the economy that right now is a huge drag on the economy. Now, we can fix this in a way that is sensible, that is centrist. I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions that the left wanted that are you know, they were very adamant about because I thought it would be too disruptive to the system. But what we can't do is perpetuate a system in which millions of people day in and day out are having an enormously tough time and small businesses are sending me letters constantly saying that they are seeing their premiums increase 40, 50 percent.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #103
122. I don't see how that's better, unfortunately. He didn't say
"I have rejected provisions from BOTH SIDES that would be too disruptive". Am I missing something, I'm a little upset right now.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #122
125. I find hiding sources and incomplete quotes to be
manipulative. Read the whole thing. Yes, he said that, as part of a larger interview.

I find hiding the source, and partial quotes to be manipulative. Why not give the source, why not give the complete quote in context and let us make up our minds.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #125
131. Yes, it can be manipulative. In this case, the context doesn't seem to
contradict the portion that was given.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #131
198. That's what I see. nt
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xocet Donating Member (699 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #125
243. Moot Point....
You are correct regarding proper referencing of presented materials, but the expanded context here does not actually change the meaning of the excerpt.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #125
465. Really, the attempted manipulation seems to be coming from you ...
Nothing changed in the comments --

nor have any of our conclusions changed ---

Obama sucks!

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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #465
468. "Obama sucks!" My my my, you do have a way with constructive criticism, don't you
Whereas I only write what I disagree with and how it could be made better, you are the erudite author of "Obama sucks!" Congratulations.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #468
471. I think the myth or theory of "constructive criticism" and Obama would be
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 08:18 PM by defendandprotect
as we have seen over the last year, a waste of time --

I've read the comments here: my conclusion is "Obama sucks!"

Or do you really think that people are looking for another party to join --

and/or another candidate to replace Obama in 2012 --

because we think he's done "good"?

Let's remember, we still have the Bush/Obama two wars raging --

bankrupting our Treasury -- with Dems refinancing these wars for three years now ...

after confirming they had been elected "to end the war."

We still have trade agreements unamended because Obama doesn't see the need for it!!

We still have corrupt capitalism rampaging free from re-regulation --

and not a peep from Obama.

We have corporatism having taken hold of our government and no move by Obama to push

for a Constitutional amendment to knock down the inane concept of corporate "personhood."

Though Obama is giving prime leadership to destroying what's left of public education by

pushing charter schools while blaming teachers for what's wrong with this government run

program -- LNCB -- and it's also a handy way to destroy one of the largest unions.





And, again, you're making a fuss over nothing re the OP . . .





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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #471
528. Good list. You forgot to say that Obama is OK with torture, and that there will be NO investigation
of the war crimes and multiple other transgressions of BushCo -- which is utterly outrageous, to let those fuckers get away with it all.


"Change we can believe in", my ass!!
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #122
175. I agree with you.
The full quote doesn't make it any better. He made it clear that only centrists have his ear.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #175
182. I agree with you "He made it clear that only centrists have his ear."
The full quote didn't make it better, but having the full quote is more honest than a partial quote. That is my beef here.

That and I do agree with you that Obama is a centrist and only centrists have his ear.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #182
387. That brings up an interesting point.
What is a centrist?

If one side is correct on an issue and the other side is incorrect, what is the middle of that?
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #387
399. AND the point that if the center has moved right, which "center" are centrists in.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #399
404. Exactly!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #182
467. Looks more like Rep. John Conyers nailed it: "Obama only listens to Rahm" . . .!!!
and that's corporate-speak that comes from DLC/Rahm . . .

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Mark D. Donating Member (420 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #122
208. Darned Right!
I noticed that too. The 'left' has the 'wacko ideas', and his 'centrist' view is great in that it includes the implied 'more reasonable' right wing ideas. Thanks a lot Mr. Hope.
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rcrush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #122
242. Agreed. Doesn't really change what he said.
It even enforces it.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #122
346. In other words,
he doesn't want to cause a disruption to a part of the economy that is a "huge drag on the economy." :banghead:

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #346
351. Because change is disruptive.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #351
371. I guess that's why he changed his mind on so many campaign promises -
it was less disruptive than actual change.



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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #346
469. Did you think he was going to admit why he's really done this?
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 08:00 PM by defendandprotect
Otoh, you know that war isn't "disruptive" . . . right?

The FU with the economy which occurred because Wall St spent $5 billion to overturn

New Deal regulations wasn't "disruptive" . . . right?

And, of course, trade agreements aren't "disruptive" -- !!!

Repeat afer me . . . only MEDICARE FOR ALL/SINGLE PAYER is "disruptive" . . .


to corrupt capitalism/elitism/corporate power, corporatism, that is . . . . !!!


New question: How stupid does he really think the public is --

we've upchucking at his arrogance ....

Does he really think anyone believes this garbage??

Ah, yes, arrogance!!



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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #122
375. Just Finished Reading The Article/Discussion And What Strikes Me Is This...
The very same statement that you noticed EFerrari. He DIDN'T say BOTH sides, he said "the left" and it makes me wonder WHY he made the statement at all. One could look at it several ways I suppose. Perhaps because he's been called everything from ultra-liberal, socialist and even worse, he might have wanted to distance himself from those "tags."

But then you can also look at it in another way, kind of the RAA-UUUMMM-ish retarded comment whereby the WH thinks it's best to disregard "the base" and focus more on being "centrist/right." And IF we were to look at it that way, then I would conclude that "the base" seems to be of a lesser concern to Obama and those working in the WH. Even if you were to use Progressive rather than Left!

Regardless of HOW it was intended, I personally feel offended by what was said. IF, as Obama has said that "we should work together" and IF he wants to maintain his belief in the "middle ground" theory, then this wasn't a "middle ground" comment. Does he REALLY understand that "the other side" is working AGAINST him even at this late date? And if he doesn't SEE how they have done almost anything to make him look bad, when will he understand it?

If I were the WH, I would be calling them out and using my position to play HARD BALL in the best possible way. I realize many think his calm demeanor is admirable, but I MUST say that there ARE times when "calm" just won't win any points much less a GAME!!

For me, this is a problem and it tends to re-enforce my opinion that the WH has leaned much further to appease THEM, than to their OWN BASE! It makes me feel uncomfortable and I'd rather not feel this way.... REALLY!!

:nopity: :dilemma: :banghead:
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #103
128. excuse me uppity, but Obama DID the interview on FOX NEWS. It's a transcript I linked to.
Are you disparaging Obama for going on Fox News. If not, don't disparage me for using a quote from an interview that Obama agreed to with FOX NEWS!
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:14 PM
Original message
No, I am taking you to task for HIDING the source and giving incomplete quote
neither of which are honest.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
134. I hid no source I linked to it. Obama did the interview with Fox. You are trying to disparage this
post because I linked to fox news. Well, Obama did the interview with FOX!

And again, I took nothing out of context, I linked to the entire transcript and I quoted it as he said it.

And he meant it to disparage lefties and uses lefties as a defense from others calling him a commie.

I AM SICK OF IT!
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #134
139. Incomplete quote. Here is complete quote to answer, vs what you say is complete
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 12:21 PM by uppityperson
Complete quote:
OBAMA: the only thing I want to say, just to close up, is that when you talk about one-sixth of the economy, this is one-sixth of the economy that right now is a huge drag on the economy. Now, we can fix this in a way that is sensible, that is centrist. I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions that the left wanted that are you know, they were very adamant about because I thought it would be too disruptive to the system. But what we can't do is perpetuate a system in which millions of people day in and day out are having an enormously tough time and small businesses are sending me letters constantly saying that they are seeing their premiums increase 40, 50 percent.

Your quote:
Now, we can fix this in a way that is sensible, that is centrist. I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions that the left wanted that are you know, they were very adamant about because I thought it would be too disruptive to the system.

Notice the difference?

Edited to add, here is what link in OP looks like:"Obama, March 17, 2010"
Here is what it goes to "http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,589589,00.html "

I am done kicking this. If you cannot see the problem, that is your problem. If you are going to be upset about something someone says, if you are going to stir up others, at least be honest about what was said.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #139
143. There is no difference. And you only have the whole quote because
the source was linked for you.

There is no dishonesty here. That's just over the top.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #143
355. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #355
373. Are you seriously calling me a "repub...defend Obama no matter what he does"? Sickening indeed.
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 04:43 PM by uppityperson
Ed to add, simply because I would like full quotes and non-misleading linky things to click on does not mean I in any way defend what an article is about. Don't assume too much.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #139
144. It's a transcript that Obama gave an interview for with FOX NEWS. What is wrong with the source?
I use the code that DU gives for links. you think that is hiding something.

For chrissakes.
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harkadog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #139
160. There is no difference in the context at all
Give it a rest.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #160
203. True. Context is exactly the same. Provisions the left favored were disruptive to the 'system'
Oh, and 'system' = profits.

Funny, I can't recall any provisions he rejected from the right. Tort reform? Great! Excise tax on benefits! Lovely! Employers invading their employees privacy? Perfect!
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #203
271. +1
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Mark D. Donating Member (420 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #139
218. Sorry
The above 'darned right' response was intended to say: "darned right that it's wrong that he's painting the left as having far-out ideas' and he's lauding his centrist view which is nothing more than appeasing the right. Let me make it clear, he's throwing the left under the buss and cozing up to the right wing with this centrist crap.
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Atticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #139
441. I saw the problem and was about to take the time to cut and paste the relevant sections.
But, your post sums things up very well and I agree with it entirely.

Whether intended or not, the OP was misleading and inaccurate.

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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #441
450. Thanks Atticus.
I appreciate the time you took to write this.

My beef is not with the ugliness of the Fox interview, but with the presentation.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #450
472. You agree with my post, but you don't like my presentation. well whoop deee doooo.
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Atticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #472
483. Having unfairly characterized the selectively quoted article in your OP, you have now unfairly
characterized the post of someone who disagreed with that OP.

That's "disagreed", i.e.,the opposite of "agreed", with your post.

whoop deee doooo, NOT!
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #483
488. you might want to re read uppitys comments and then edit your post. nt
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #472
484. Yeah, I'm odd in taking offense at a partial quote from FOX link that looks like something else
I've been off Du a bit on a trip, guess I missed the notice where partial quotes from FOX is acceptable. However, I do find links that are changed to look like something else rather disingenuous.

And it would take so little time to simply post a link showing what it is (unless one were concerned others wouldn't click on it if it said FOX).
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #484
487. You are being a very disingenous person. As you know, OBAMA GAVE AN INTERVIEW TO FOX
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 08:50 PM by boston bean
are you pissed obama gave an interview to fox, for the same reasons your upset that I used a commonly used practice to give a link.

I wasn't hiding one god damned thing. It's a freakin transcript for chrissakes, not an article.
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Atticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #487
662. You are EITHER incapable of comprehending the written English language OR---
you simply find it inconvenient to admit that you understand.

Whichever it is, the effect is the same: you are coming off shrill, hostile and silly.

We're done.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #662
666. LOL
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #134
448. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DesertDiamond Donating Member (838 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
165. I think the OP did reveal the source: Obama.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #165
410. Indeed.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #165
411. Indeed.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #165
515. True.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #165
655. Indeed. But if it's only one paragraph, or two, out of the whole interview,
isn't that taken out of context? Shouldn't the whole interview be posted, so everything is there and nothing is out of context? :sarcasm:

"Context" only matters if it either adds to, detracts from, or alters the meaning of what's been taken out of that context.

Nothing in the original quote was changed by returning it to its "context."




Tansy Gold
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #128
190. Well said. Its a shame you need to defend yourself this way on a "progressive" forum.
:applause:

Thank you for posting this.... its not a surprise, but it certainly makes it clear.

At least he was honest, for a CHANGE.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #190
358. +100000 million. It is a crying shame.
But as Obama and the Dems lurch ever closer to the right, it becomes more necessary.

We are dangerously close to a tipping point.
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Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #358
626. And the most disconcerting thing about this is that it doesn't matter how far right he drifts
the wingnuts will still call him a "socialist," "communist," etc. Doesn't he get it. Leaning over to kiss their asses won't work no matter how much he does it. Didn't he learn anything from Clinton? The more he tilted right, the more the Republicans hated him. For them, it's not about principle. It's about power...their Machiavellian quest for it, regardless of the stakes.

Either Obama is incredibly stupid or he's in on the take.

Change I can believe in? Fuck, no!

Yesterday, my conservative, former Republican friend who voted for Obama asked me if I would be willing to canvass in Virginia again for Obama in 2011/2012. I said no...not unless he stops demonizing the "left" and taking his base for granted.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #128
223. .
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #103
234. Oh please. That's a stretch.
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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #103
240. Well, there ya have it. He went on Fox "news" to pander to the.........
......more saner of the RW crazies who watch that shit.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #103
313. Thanks for the whole quote
It really isn't any better, but I appreciate the documentation that you provided in your reply to the OP.

Peace and low stress..
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #103
352. There's no difference between "reject(ing)a whole bunch of provisions that the left wanted"
AND "perpetuat(ing) a system in which millions of people day in and day out are having an enormously tough time".

Only the things the left wanted were ever going to change anything. If Lieberman can live with what's still in the bill, that in itself proves that what's still in the bill is worthless.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #103
439. Well, doesn't change anything -- this is right wing health care, providing very little . . .
except tons of money to corporations!!

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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #103
499. Now with added propaganda
This whole "one-sixth of the economy" is a classic RW talking point.

Why TF do you think it's 1/6th of the economy? Because the insurance companies MADE IT ONE FUCKING SIXTH OF THE ECONOMY with HIGH PRICES EXTORTED FROM a CAPTIVE AUDIENCE.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #103
584. LOL. What a pathetic attempt to defend the undefensible.

I'm not even sure why you tried. :shrug:
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #584
663. Whoosh. Where do you get that assumption?
Who is "defend the undefensible"? HOW is asking for a full quote rather than partial "defend the undefensible"?

Good grief. Not sure why you tried, yet you just had to make such an accusation based on some assumption you jumped to.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 05:26 AM
Response to Reply #103
611. So.....how does that make it any better?
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #611
664. It doesn't "make it any better". It makes it more complete.
Edited on Fri Mar-19-10 07:57 PM by uppityperson
It isn't defending anything, but asking for completeness. Good grief, partial quotes are not ok. Let's get upset at full quotes.

The full quote is no better, but it is a more complete quote. That is all. Seriously, is it THAT big of a deal to simply provide the full quote?
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Svafa Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
135. So tired of Progressives being demonized...
by members of both parties. I laugh when people complain that the two main political parties are too polarized in this country...they are nothing but different names for the same party. Maybe one is slightly less right wing than the other, but not enough to make any practical difference. I wish other political parties would stand a chance but lobbyists and the corporate media have seen to that, making sure that whoever is president, (s)he will always be a shill for corporate interests.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #135
226. +1
Please post more often.

The Republican Party is a shadow.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #135
378. The dems will toss us a few more crumbs off the banquet table than the repubs will,
but the fact remains that the People will never be invited to sit at the table. It's reserved for the elite only.

Welcome to DU, Svafa! :hi:
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Mark D. Donating Member (420 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
225. Me Three
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 01:23 PM by Mark D.
The question is, how stupid do they think we are? Really.

No Single-Payer at the table, the GOP definitely won't go for it. Strip out Medicare expansion, they won't want that. Bring the Public Option from Medicare +5 to a limp noodle. They still won't cave. If we get rid of the Public Option entirely, we can always expand 'non-profit health centers'.

Oh, they don't like it either, but we did get Olympia Snow (I think). Oh wait, drop that last one, Lieberman may sign on. Nope. That didn't work, he doesn't want the bill at all. OK, we knocked it down 20 points on the progressive scale. Center enough for the GOP yet? NOPE! Not one of them will vote for it, nor will Lieberman.

OKAY - this is where they think we are stupid. They'll 'push this through' now. Great! They wouldn't vote for the earliest proposal which was far better, and are no more inclined to vote for this. So why did we compromise? Why aren't we putting back in what we took out to appease them? Why are we even trying to pass this? Clearly not for them. Not for we the people either (the majority of Americans reject this because of what we gave up). For insurers, pure and simple.

They and the GOP that can say 'we listened to you, America' in a populist message, are the winners. The Democrats behind this garbage bill are clearly so happy to get the insurance company money, that's all that matters. Like I'd said before. Time to join the Green Party, and use the Coffee Party to plan the grass-roots activism. But this time, for a politician that's not for sale.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
2. "The System" -- the corporations -- is more important than the people?
I guess so.



TG
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. yep.
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Stuart G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 06:13 AM
Response to Reply #5
614. agreed...sad but true.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. Tansy_Gold: Spot on as usual
:thumbsup:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
47. I don't think this man wants a second term. His open comtempt
for the Democratic base is startling.
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #47
91. How can anyone any longer contend that Obama is not arrogant
as he continues to disrespect his own support base.

I am beginning to think Obama would be happier working on Wall Street doing God's work at Goldman Sacks.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #91
99. He's only doing what the whole leadership does. He's not special.
Remember, Nancy Pelosi told the press that we, her constituents, weren't her constituents when we demonstrated for impeachment and she simply refused to have townhall meetings for YEARS. Remember Rahm's foul mouth. I can't think of other instances right now because I usually try to suppress that stuff.
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #99
114. Then the politicians you mentioned are also arrogant not only in their words

but in their behaviors.

Arrogant is one of the more polite words I would use to describe them.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #114
120. There is a note of impunity that has gotten louder since they took the majority.
I agree.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #120
161. And since the SCOTUS ruling it's gotten worse
because they know that they no longer need any of us.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #161
168. Yep. We're basically window dressing now.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #161
389. SCOUTUS ruling + electronic voting machines = STFU to the People
I'm more disgusted now than I was in 1980 when the whole Iranian hostage situation was manipulated for the benefit of Reagan.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #389
427. I was wondering why the plutocrats let Obama win when electronic manipulation is possible.
I'm pretty sure there is no "voting" solution anymore. It's gotten to that point. I wish it wasn't this way. But I don't think there is any space for the CENTRISTS of 1980 in this political system, let alone the left.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #427
449. IMO, they let Obama win because McCain/Palin scared them more.
Bush wasn't the sharpest tack in the pack, but even he wasn't as stupid & batshit crazy as Palin. Bush worships money, just like the elites. They couldn't risk that McCain would die & have someone they couldn't control in the White House.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #449
502. I think they needed a Democrat to dismantle education, unions, and healthcare.
Can't make those gains with Republicans. They needed to own both sides of the aisle. That's my two cents.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #427
460. Because they needed someone to further dismantle the Democratic Party . . .
and demoralize Democratic voters -- !!!

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #389
461. And there's no way around the computers . . . even if you do mail-in vote . . .
they all still get "counted" by computers!!!

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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #461
629. Yep. Once the ballot is digitized, it can be manipulated.
Every election, my county makes big claims about our paper ballots, which are scanned into a computer. :eyes:
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diva77 Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #389
589. This should be a bumper sticker!! You nailed it!!
:hangover:
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:47 PM
Original message
"Give him time..."
...He'll get that job!

Tesha
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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #91
277. No. Millions in speaking fees is his plan
As a fierce proud member of the left, no way in hell am I voting for this douchebag again. No politician ever gets elected by constantly attacking their own base. He is far worse than I even imagined he could be.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #277
319. Maybe a position on the board of Goldmann Sachs?
after all, they seem to be a sort of "global government' far more powerful than the Presidency.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #91
459. It's the very word I used in my comments . .. "arrogant" . . .
It's not to early at all to be thinking of 2012 -- and 2010 ....

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icee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #47
142. Never seen anything like it--
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #47
158. I'd be willing to bet cold hard cash that he doesn't run for a second term
he's dropped plenty of hints about that already.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #158
227. He got what he came for, wouldn't be surprised either.
Just a bonus if he could blame Progressives too.

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Mark D. Donating Member (420 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #158
228. All Smiles
With Bush, who he refuses to go after, along with Cheney. I think he's cutting a path for Jeb now.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #47
197. It's chilling. nt
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #47
462. It truly is.... I don't think he wants second term, either. Don't think he expected the first one
truly upsetting.
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icee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
150. What I think, and I have been afraid to say it until now. There has to
be more in it for Obama than getting health care passed, when while doing so he is destroying his base and maybe the Democratic Party. I think there may have been inducements involved. Nothing he is doing makes any sense.
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Mark D. Donating Member (420 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #150
236. It Makes Sense...
If you allow some conspiracy theory views of conspiracy theories.

I'll elaborate. The most demonized Democrat by the right ever.

Questioning his right to even run (his citizenship).

Alex Jones and the fringe see something nefarious.

They call it 'far left' or 'socalist'. What a ruse.

Only they don't know it. But he does.

He's not working for the left after all.

Like Mousolinni on the right, who said corporations are the best.

Meet the new boss, the same as the old boss. I mean HIS boss.

The coprorations. The real owners. Google George Carlin & Real Owners.
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icee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #236
251. Well said, MarkD. Furthermore, I believe he was allowed power
by the coporatists, who at some point in the election looked at McCain Palin and said no way. The ruse you mentioned was used simply to give Obama credibility as a real liberal, when he had been turned long before. Far left, socialist: these handles played into the corporatist's hands. There really wasn't much to discuss in the January, February Pharma-Insurance deal. They prolly just sat around drinking root beer koolaid and laughing. We are officially a fascist State. And why did we, the liberals, the smartest of the electorate fall for it? Because we were wounded. We lived through the horror that was Bush. Our economy is falling apart. We are at the cliff. And then he comes Obama riding in on a white horse, a different kind of candidate in many ways. And hope and change began, which is EXACTLY what we needed. I even fell for it. Oh, well, 25 more years of Republicans. Does it really make any difference? I just hope my stalag has a clean john.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #251
295. I think the corporatists realized McCain/Palin was too dangerous
even for them. Either of those two would have been very happy to start a nuclear war and blow the world to toxic smithereens.

Obama, on the other hand, would provide a smiling cover for the dominion.


Tansy Gold, who really doesn't believe in conspiracy theories but finds this one chillingly believable.
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icee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #295
305. They sure as hell didn't need an Armageddonist (Palin) suddenly
taking the reins if John McCain had a stroke or blew a CA. More and more things fit together. I'll bet we are never deer in the headlights again.
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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #295
405. No. The GOP threw the election when the economy headed south.
They wanted Obama stuck with the mess, and then they could come back in 2010 and 2012.

I NEVER counted the GOP out--ever.
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icee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #405
444. That may be part of it.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #405
510. That's also possible -- logical, reasonable --
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #251
508. Mainly agree with you both . . .
but really don't think the elites were shy of McCain/Palin ...

I think they knew the public wanted CHANGE . . . and they simply gave

us something that looked and sounded and acted like CHANGE . . .

but it turned out to be the same ole, same ole. Bait and switch, as some have said here!!

PLUS the public had trust in a man of color -- they took advantage of that --

Would have been same with HRC -- trust in a woman --

But, what we have to heed is what Justice Thurgood Marshall said as he was retiring and

everyone wondered if Poppy Bush would put another AA in his seat?

Marshall said: "It's not the color of a snake that's important --- it's whether or

not the snake bites!" --

After that, Poppy appointed the perverted Clarence Thomas -

and in Obama we've got a snake that bites!!

Very, very sad to say!!!

Sad for this country and our citizens!!
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #150
237. I have some very weird thoughts about this, even some that come off
making Obama seem less bad. I know it's bs and too soon for me to say this but here goes.

What if Obama saw the landscape and decided the biggest danger for this country was the fault line between conservatives and progressives and decided to sacrifice himself on trying to heal that divide? The batshit crazy party isn't coming back to sanity on its own. Even if true, I think this was miscalculation and error to the extreme, but I have a lot of weird thoughts trying to come up with some rationalization for his betrayal. Yeah, I get it that some say he is a proud asshole, er centrist, so maybe we should just take his word and not try to come up with excuses for him.
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icee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #237
253. There nothing wrong with a moment of healing speculation, although
the severity of actually telling the insurance folks "no public option" while you are telling whomever your base is "we need a public option" seems conclusive.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #253
255. I just don't understand him.
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 02:07 PM by Mithreal
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #237
323. there is an easy answer to his behavior
the left can't go anywhere - the dem party is the only game in town.
the left can either work hard for Obama, or go home.
Obama knows that there are only two choices, the corporate GOP or the corporate DLC.

We are 'free' to stay home and allow the corporate GOP to come to power.
We are free to vote true left - Nader or whoever carries the leftist torch..

But Obama knows that we will either stand with him or do nothing. If we do nothing the GOP wins. If we stand with Obama the DLC wins. Either way working people lose and corporations win.

The whole good cop bad cop thing..
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #323
341. I am there as well.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #323
369. +1, that's it in a nutshell. Where are Lefties going to go?
The political reality of 2-party politics in America leaves us very little alternative.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #323
396. What is the difference between going over a cliff at 100mph & walking up to it & jumping off?
The descent is still the same.

I voted for Obama, because even though I knew he was a corporatist, I thought by approaching the cliff at a slower rate, we would be afforded the opportunity to change direction, but that's not happening. We're still headed for the frickin' cliff & it's approaching only a little bit slower than before.

And Dick Cheney is still a free man. :grr:
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #323
418. There is another option. PRIMARY the bastids!
Part of this is the left's fault, meaning me and my fellow boomers who had no use for electoral politics in the 70s. A few of us like Kucinich and Sanders started to run for and win local offices back then. What if they had been joined by many others? Being in grad school as a scientist, I couldn't have been one of them, but I could at least have supported a few others. The whole context that a president operates in would have been different if we had done that.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #418
522. Whatever liberals/progressives do, we have to do together -- as a bloc --!!
Well, the nation was put on the road to fascism immediately after WWII --

see Operation Paperclip -- tens of thousands of NAZIs brought into America under

direction of Allen Dulles. Founded the CIA with them -- funneled them into the FBI.

The stage was set for overt violence and it happened -- that's the only way the right

can rise.

We have a long period of political violence by the right wing -- that's how it happened!

How many Kucinich's and Sander's could you have had in Congress that they could not have

targeted just the way they did target the really "Dems" they got rid of?

The coup on JFK was also a coup on our "people's" government -- they weren't about to

let the Democratic Party challenge them, investigate them. Also remember, it couldn't

have been done without LBJ in the presidency!

The computers -- the large ones used by MSM -- and the electronic voting computers then

began to come in during the mid-and-late-1960's -- just about the time that we were

passing "The Voting Rights Act"!! Coincidence?

Was there ever a "Southern Strategy" or were there simply stolen elections?

Humphrey/Nixon -- 100,000 vote difference? I think we need to rethink every election

back to that time!

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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #522
548. Humphrey-Nixon
Don't forget the Wallace factor-- He won 5 Southern states, including my state of Arkansas. I remember some friends' parents and voting-age siblings getting all excited about Bobby Kennedy, and by golly, they were gonna vote for him. And then Bobby was assassinated, and they turned around and voted for that jackass Wallace!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #548
583. Right . . . of course. . . there is only one way the right can rise ...violence ...
And they're still at it --

They say Poppy Bush/CIA ex's clear the way for them --

Long, long time this has been going on --

And, I think there are still people who sit in front of their TV's thinking . . .

"if there was anything to really worry about, they would be telling me!"

Wallace was also a victim of this right wing violence -- he was shot --

clearing the field for Nixon?

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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 06:15 AM
Response to Reply #522
615. I agree. We can't primary everyone who deserves it.
We need to be selective and go after the ones who are too conservative for their districts.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #323
520. Masterpiece . . . !! K&R ...
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 09:46 PM by defendandprotect
Short term you are absolutely right --

Long term -- any other thoughts?

Michael Moore/Thom Hartmann rec working for a Constitutional amendnemnt to

put down concept of corporate "personhood." That's one way --

But, essentially, all power seems to have been taken from the public's hands.

I find it highly unusual that no one from the Democrats -- past or present --

is moving to lead liberals/progressives in another direct . . . "out of the desert"

so to speak! Too dangerous?

Let's be honest . . . we're dealing with fascism . . . and a right wing that has

come to power on violence, assassinations and vote stealing -- at the least!



What we do have is what we have seen in other fascist situations --

it's simply the power of the powerless ... if we can figure out a way to use it!!

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stranger81 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #323
601. Exactly right.
This is so freaking discouraging.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #237
416. That may well have been so. Maybe the problem now is
--that the presidency itself is just too goddam insulated for him to have a prayer of actually seeing what is going on.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #416
524. I think you're grasping at straws . . . look at the people Obama has put in power ????
DLC and corporatism all the way!

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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 06:17 AM
Response to Reply #524
616. It's what I expect of someone who spends all his time in a gnotobiotic bubble n/t
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #616
652. Nader just commented that Obama is surrounded by "warmongers and MIC" . . .
I agree --

And, this attack on the LEFT is something that should wake us all up --

but doesn't seem to!!

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #237
513. If this was unique . . . if this were Obama's only betrayal . . .well . . .
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 09:39 PM by defendandprotect
I'd go with you -- I think we'd all be searching for an explanation --

but there's too much now -- from wiretapping to keeping these wars raging --

wars which are bankrupting the Treasury --

Look at the appointments, over and again -- they show the direction he's moving in --

predictable.

No change on trade agreements --

No earlier end to the tax cuts for rich --

No real jobs program, except thru corporations --

No reregulation of capitalism -- banks, Glass-Steagall!

On and on --

Wish you were right, however, because I think we always like to hang onto some hope!!


Did you see Howard Dean on Rachel tonight?

Said this is NOT health care reform --

It is a "Romeny-like" health care package --

I didn't see all of it -- just that part.

AND, basically none of this goes into play for 3-4 years!!

While we begin paying immediately!





:)
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Mark D. Donating Member (420 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #150
238. Dupe n/t
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 01:35 PM by Mark D.
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GreenArrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #150
299. What's in it for Obama?
He gets to be the first black President. No matter what the rest of his Presidency is like (and so far, it's been pretty lousy, IMO) he'll always have that distinction, not to mention the various perks and advantages that go along with the position itself.
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icee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #299
337. Yeah, and maybe more $$$$$$$$$$$
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #299
514. A lifetime position on the board of Goldmann Sachs? nt
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GreenArrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #514
544. How 'bout a seat on the board of the Carlyle Group?
That might interest him. I think Tony Blair got one.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 03:27 AM
Response to Reply #544
605. .
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #150
463. Right ... had he done "Medicare for all" . . . Dem Party would be set next 40 years!!
As far as votes . . . favorable opinion ---

And Obama would be relected --

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icee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #463
492. Two terms.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #463
517. Yep. Anyone who even suggests messing with the NHS hasn't got a shot in GB
The same would be true here too if were were given a similar plan.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #463
630. Absolutely!
Until SCOTUS gives corporations the right to vote. One vote per share of stock.

There was a time I would have laughed at that idea, but with the Roberts court, nothing would surprise me.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #150
519. Hey, Tony Blair was willing to sell his soul, reputation, and plenty of British lives
for a seat at the Carlyle Group table.
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icee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #519
521. Good point, ma'am. I never did care for Blair. Or his wife, Wendy, or
whatever her name was.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #521
627. Her name is Cherie, Sir, and I like her more than Tony.
Edited on Fri Mar-19-10 08:21 AM by whathehell
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #519
525. Thanks for the reminder ...
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 09:57 PM by defendandprotect
Had rather positive feelings about Blair when he first came in --

Wow!

The elites are simply proving over and again that they can find a "Judas" or

a "snake that bites" in any color, any size any shape -- AA or female!!



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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
533. Obama -- and his administration -- are corporatists . . .
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 10:13 PM by defendandprotect
Corporatism is fascism . . .

do you feel the sting of the fascism in that little notice he threw out at

us -- telling us we are powerless among the all-might corporations?

"Nothing you can do about it, folks!"

:scared:
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
3. "too disruptive to the system". Yeah I know. That would be too much like.... what's
that word? Oh right CHANGE! what a bunch of bullshit.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
174. +1
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
4. he can win on votes from centrists, then
because after his attitude toward liberals, I have no desire to vote for this man.

what a waste of opportunity.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. You notice, Obama, who we have been told can't control Congress, has just admitted that
it was he who rejected the provisions, and he who decided they were to disruptive to the "system".....
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
51. You bet. n/t
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #7
55. An excellent point. Slipped right by me.
He admitted that was all just theater.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #7
107. Incomplete quote in your OP from Fox news. Here is the rest of his reply
But what we can't do is perpetuate a system in which millions of people day in and day out are having an enormously tough time and small businesses are sending me letters constantly saying that they are seeing their premiums increase 40, 50 percent.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #107
113. And that changes his demeaning of the left --
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 11:59 AM by Hell Hath No Fury
and our ideas how?
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #113
115. Taking things out of context is wrong and manipulative.
OBAMA: the only thing I want to say, just to close up, is that when you talk about one-sixth of the economy, this is one-sixth of the economy that right now is a huge drag on the economy. Now, we can fix this in a way that is sensible, that is centrist. I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions that the left wanted that are you know, they were very adamant about because I thought it would be too disruptive to the system. But what we can't do is perpetuate a system in which millions of people day in and day out are having an enormously tough time and small businesses are sending me letters constantly saying that they are seeing their premiums increase 40, 50 percent.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #115
123. I took nothing out of context. He was demeaning left ideas in defense of this bill.
He is using liberals to say, "hey all you assholes thinking I'm some sort of commie, I rejected the lefts ideas".

And what do we get, a bill that on a usual day any republican would be proud of.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #123
126. Incomplete quote out of context indeed. And hidden source.
Yes, be upset with Pres Obama if you wish, but yes, you did pull one sentence out of context. You did not give his complete answer. You hid the source.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #126
132. I did not. What source, where he did the interview. Obama did the interview with FOX. Jessum
chrissum.

The quote is complete in how he meant it and how he used it.

It is disparaging lefty ideas as disruptive and he is using lefties as a defense from others calling him a commie.

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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #132
137. Here is the complete quote vs what you say is "complete:
Complete quote:
OBAMA: the only thing I want to say, just to close up, is that when you talk about one-sixth of the economy, this is one-sixth of the economy that right now is a huge drag on the economy. Now, we can fix this in a way that is sensible, that is centrist. I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions that the left wanted that are you know, they were very adamant about because I thought it would be too disruptive to the system. But what we can't do is perpetuate a system in which millions of people day in and day out are having an enormously tough time and small businesses are sending me letters constantly saying that they are seeing their premiums increase 40, 50 percent.

Your quote:
Now, we can fix this in a way that is sensible, that is centrist. I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions that the left wanted that are you know, they were very adamant about because I thought it would be too disruptive to the system.

Notice the difference? If you are going to be upset about something someone says, if you are going to stir up others, at least be honest about what he said.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #137
141. Excuse me uppity, but he is disparaging lefty ideas as disruptive.
he admits himself to rejecting them.

You can nit pick all you like. I stand by my criticism.

It is a true reflection of his words, even given the extra sentences you would have liked me to have supplied.
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Lautremont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #137
146. You have no argument to make.
There is no difference and the source of the quote was not hidden.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #146
667. +1
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #137
183. the "one-sixth of the economy" is a right-wing talking point
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #183
275. Not only that --
The bill SUPPORTS and ENLARGES that portion of the economy by putting more cash into the insurance companies. THEREFORE, his "fix" not only does not fix anything; it makes what's already bad even worse.



TG
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #275
308. it's too big to fail..
so let's make it even BIGGER.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #126
133. The source is linked in the OP. How is that hiding anything?
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rcrush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #126
246. Seriously. The sentence is not out of context.
Its basically the same damn thing. It even enforces his point. The link to FOX NEWS is right there in the post? What the hell are you talking about?
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jeff47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #115
345. Think
Your "context" doesn't change anything about the quote in the OP.

He played the favorite game of the moderates, punch the DFHs.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #107
145. So he personally rejects "Change" that would be "disruptive to the system"
while saying that "WE" can't perpetuate the very system that he doesn't want to disrupt? Okay then.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #145
148. There's always that little doo hickey too..... LOL
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #145
163. Nope. "it would be too disruptive to the system."
Again, look at the complete quote. "it would be too disruptive to the system" vs "disruptive to the system".

I am upset about this whole health care thing. It has not gone as I want it to. If I were queen of the universe, there would have been a whole lot more changes in the whole system. However, my gripe here is be upset about what is said, not partial quotes. There is a big difference between "too disruptive to the system" and "disruptive to the system".

He rejects being "too disruptive to the system" while also saying "But what we can't do is perpetuate a system". I see this as saying he doesn't want to disrupt the system TOO much, but also doesn't want to perpetuate, continue the system as it is. Now, if you want to discuss how much is "too much", I would be happy to say that my definition of "too much" is very different than Pres Obama's.


Complete quote:
"the only thing I want to say, just to close up, is that when you talk about one-sixth of the economy, this is one-sixth of the economy that right now is a huge drag on the economy. Now, we can fix this in a way that is sensible, that is centrist. I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions that the left wanted that are you know, they were very adamant about because I thought it would be too disruptive to the system. But what we can't do is perpetuate a system in which millions of people day in and day out are having an enormously tough time and small businesses are sending me letters constantly saying that they are seeing their premiums increase 40, 50 percent."
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #163
166. Why didn't Obama say I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions from my own Party??? nt
you are missing the point of this thread.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #166
167. Obama is centrist. NOT left. I understand your point. You miss mine.
Why put "nt" in subject line when you obviously have test in message body?
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #167
170. I thought i was done, and then I wasn't. so sorry.
Do you think it was an attempt to mislead you??

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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #170
173. No, just sloppy writing technique. Obama is centrist.NOT left.I understand your point.You miss mine.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #173
178. I don't miss your point. I 100% totally disagree. And I do think you were trying to disparage me
because i linked to Fox. Which is below you, I would think. Seeing Obama did the interview with FOX.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #178
191. You seriously believe you gave a full quote? You seriously believe
"Obama, March 17, 2010" = "http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,589589,00.html "

You 100% disagree with me about that? Huh. Well, guess we're done here then.

Too bad you can't tell the difference because then we might be able to get into a discussion of whether or not Pres. Obama is a centrist and listens to only centrists rather than we lefties. Too bad.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #191
192. YES! nt
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 01:03 PM by boston bean
I fairly represented what he meant with the quote I used. I changed no words. I did not change the meaning of his words.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #191
501. Yes!! All that was necessary to be understood has been said -- we get it!!!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #167
500. Obama is a corporatist, which puts him on the right . . .the far, far, far right . . .
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #163
279. A good reading lesson, and maybe an insight into Obama.
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 02:34 PM by immoderate
As you point out, if you parse the words carefully, it is the fix that must be carried out in a centrist way, but it is not the solution. He is acknowledging the politics but asserting that more needs to be done to have a sustainable health system.

The truncated quote is not the same.

--imm
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #163
327. neo-cons still running the dea and the drug war
too disruptive to the system..
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #163
342. It really doesn't make any difference. The current bill isn't disruptive at all.
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 03:51 PM by Tansy_Gold
Obama parses the response with the nebulous "too," but in fact and in meaning, it's one and the same. Any disruption of the existing system is too much, at least from the perspective of those who would be most negatively affected by any such disruption.

On the other side of the equation -- forgive me if I call it the left side of the equation -- there can hardly be too much disruption.

So it is clear that Obama is siding with the right (not even the center) against the left, but he does so in an interview on FUX that allows his diehard supporters to continue to justify their support.



Tansy Gold
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mrdmk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #342
436. The full quote not only throws 80% of the U.S. population under the bus
It is also full of double talk IMHO.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #342
503. Agree . . . it's a right wing program, a right wing decision, and right wing comments ...
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #145
214. 'Too disruptive' = Takes away insurance company power of life and death.
Wouldn't want to mess with that, nope.





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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #214
241. Yup. Gotta keep the power to make Decisions in the Right Hands.
After all, who knows better than money makers how to do Proper Health Care.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #7
110. Oopsie!
:rofl:
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
176. +1 Interesting, is it not.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
302. yup
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
526. These comments tonight are very revealing . . . and it's not a pretty picture!!
Keep in mind . . . war isn't "too disruptive" --

Bankrupting the Treasury isn't "too disruptive" --

Employment at 19% isn't "too disruptive" --

I would think I was describing a flake if I didn't know that this is an educated

man who has more likely sold his soul!

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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. Yup- me too.
let the CENTRISTS go fucking knock on doors and man the phones. I know I will not make THAT mistake again.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #13
21. me three. nt
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #4
42. Yes, no amount of cajoling and/or intimidation will convince me to vote for Obama again.
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 09:52 AM by ShortnFiery
My husband talked me into voting for Clinton instead of Nader in 1996 and I needed no convincing to vote for the Democratic Presidential Candidate in 2000, 2004 and 2008. However, if Obama is the Democratic Nominee, I'll write in Nader or Kucinich with NO regrets.

My party has left me by going to the hard-corps corporate right.

"Centrist" my ass! The USA is a full blown CORPORATE right-wing duopoly.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #42
205.  "Centrist" my ass! The USA is a full blown CORPORATE right-wing duopoly.
Bears repeating.
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #205
301. Hear, hear!
Centrist is a label DLC/NDC hides behind.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #205
504. Absolutely . . . and corporatism is fascism . . .
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d_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
250. PoW!
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
430. +1. Even my 70 year old parents are done with him. They were VERY involved with local party:
fundraisers, local councils, the whole nine yard. They're no longer even donating to the Democratic Party as of this year.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #430
479. They must be Sarah Palin lovers!!!!11
:silly:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #479
506. Howard Dean tonight on Rachel called this a 'ROMNEY-LIKE PLAN' . . .
So does that make Obama a Romney lover?

Dean also comments it's NOT "health care reform" and of course it is not --

it is health care disruption, made even more disruptive!!

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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
6. This is being called "compromise" around here
I keep getting told that the progressives won't recognize that he "compromised" with us. I keep trying to explain, it wasn't compromise, it was a rejection.

Obama has personally admitted that this is basically a 15 year old GOP/Dole/Baker bill, but I keep getting told it is some sort of "progressive issue being addressed".

Obama calls it "rejecting the provisions" and yet I'm told around here that we weren't rejected.

Rahm calls us "retarded", but supposedly the White House "tried to meet us halfway".

Let me be clear. The progressive wing of the Democratic Party is dead. We are being rejected and we are without representation within the party. They use us as a fund raising instrument only. The DCCC/DSCC tries to keep us out of primaries. The party doesn't want us and is clearly "rejecting" us.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
281. We're not dead, but other than that +1. Join DFA.
Reject the DCCC/DSCC/OFA/DLC, it's easy.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
527. The liberal/progressive population is NOT dead, except within the Dem Party!!!
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 10:03 PM by defendandprotect
And we had damned well start getting together and getting our brains working ---

and move in a bloc --

I never give funds, except to someone I'm very sure of --

Obama got $25 bucks from me!!

We gave thousands to Howard Dean!

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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
9. Is he still looking for an "attaboy" from the Right?...
He is SO anxious for acceptance from the Repukes, I wonder why he didn't just run "under their flag" so to speak.

He looks pathetic, frankly, not to mention disloyal to his base, whom he seems intent on demoralizing....Disgusting.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Corporations rule this
country...and the prez dances to their tune.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. Corporations do not rule this country
they rule ALL countries. And they us our own national patriotism as diversion and cover while they have none at all.

Borders mean nothing to them. That is why they pay pols to dispense with them via legal means which supersede national laws.

People? People are just another raw natural resource, or slag to be tossed on a heap when they are in the way of mining for money.
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #19
59. yeah, it's the New World Order
When corporations become behemoth monsters, they actually strip away the will of the people-democracies. When they become so big, that governments cannot contain them-it appears that there will be no use for government. Years back our government was going after, I believe, GE for anti-trust suit. The government could not handle the monetary expenditure for the suit. So, when corporations override all governments, hence, controlling all people, what's it called?
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
407. This is the most spot on post I've read today.
Until the People wake up to this fact, nothing will change. I'm not sure it will change if they do wake up! The corporations are globally entrenched in everything humans need. They are a monster whose head you cannot cut off, cuz another head pops out or it morphs into a monster of a different name & type.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #19
529. Remember "there's no honesty among thieves" . . . eventually, they are each the
enemy of the other --

They are organized -- we aren't --

Whatever we do we have to do as a bloc --

ALL liberals and progressives together --
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #529
534. Past 12 years, I have been saying the coming wars will be between corporations
There are no nations, really
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #534
540. Interesting . . .
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 10:34 PM by defendandprotect
Meanwhile, they've knocked off quite a few of their own in this last go-around . . .

Usually -- if can be said even loosely -- perhaps those who weren't as evil?


As they say . . . "Capitalism isn't about competition, it's about killing the competition"!!



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LarryNM Donating Member (130 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #534
591. Nations Spy on Nations, Corporations Spy on Corporations
Nations help their Corporations. An interesting article I read on this some 15 or so years ago, wish I could remember the source, some sort of intelligence employees quarterly (CSIS?). The gist seemed to be that this was nothing new, just more and high tech. Unorganized crime = Somalia, Organized Crime = Al Capone Chicago Gangs and "legit" government.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #591
635. What's new is that corporations more openly control the pols who make laws
and the corporations that are the highest bidders get the laws they want, which not only affects people, but other corporations. The wars are between the corporations for who can get the most laws they want so they can:

get the most $
get control over the most resources
get control over avenues of commence
get control over the resource of labor

It ain't about spying anymore. It's war and we are the terrain that it is taking place on. WE are the battlefield AND the cannon fodder.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #635
653. Agree ... and need to MOBILIZE the left and progressives and keep fighting: two ways here . . .
http://www.singlepayer.org /

http://www.freespeech.org /

Upper left: Petition


I completely agree with you that the aggressivesness/arrogance of TPB/corporations

is substantially increasing and will continue to compound.

But, that's what capitalism is basically about -- exploitation of everything !!


Capitalism is a ridiculous "King-of-the-Hill" system intended to move the wealth and

natural resources of a nation from the many to the few --

Capitalism isn't about competition, it's about killing the competition --

Patriarchy/Capitalism are suicidal systems based on exploitation of nature, natural

resources, animal-life -- and even other human beings according to various myths of

"inferiority."

See: Manifest Destiny and Man's Dominion Over Nature





:)
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
394. Such a sucky, sad disappointment...
Let's not get fooled again.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #9
26. Only way he gets that from the right is if he resigns, so he should stop trying.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #26
395. Exactly....
One WOULD think he would have learned that by now. :eyes:
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #9
357. Or Reagan to rise from the grave and say, "I like this guy!"
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These Eyes Donating Member (360 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #357
391. Was this the only picture of Reagan you could find
or did you choose it for the symbolism of the lawn jockey in the background?
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #391
402. Oh, our media is awash in pictures of Saint Ronnie.
As you can see from the picture, he was quite a supporter of the civil rights movement.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/19/opinion/19krugman.htm...
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These Eyes Donating Member (360 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #402
537. So, exactly what is the message you are sending?
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #537
643. No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Don't be coy: If you're trying to accuse me of racism--misguided though you may be--just come out and say so.

Or you could read the Krugman article to which I provided a link. :shrug:
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #357
401. Yup.......He just can't seem to get that right. n/t
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
10. Keep on digging that hole, Obama...
...I love how all the progressives in Congress just rolled over for him. They'll get an interesting lesson come November.
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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
11. Well at least he is honest this time
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 08:41 AM by Tailormyst
His view of the left showed through bright and clear. He is going to regret this come election time.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
530. Well, Obama is being honest about ignoring the left/progressives .. .
but I think "too distruptive" actually relates to not being able to cross

the corporates he made private deals with long ago --

deals he may be happily keeping!?

Face it, elites have leverage over Obama --

The public doesn't --

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lwcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
15. Need a new shirt?
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. I want one of those. Scratch that......I NEED one of those. nt


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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #15
23. whoaaa!!
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #23
32. I want a t-shirt with "warmonger" on it like what you had posted
in your sigline that they made you delete that time.
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lukasahero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #15
40. I'll be getting one of those for myself
and half of my friends. :thumbsup:
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #15
95. I would look good in one of those.


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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #15
164. That's me alright
and I sure wish that it weren't the case.
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Pooka Fey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #15
623. Very cool.
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Cal Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
17. "...too disruptive to the system..."
Indeed. The system. How about how disruptive it is for PEOPLE when their medical bills put them in bankruptcy, or when they have to suffer in sickness in pain because they can't afford co-pays? That's not going to change for very many PEOPLE. This 'system' is theoretically supposed to work for PEOPLE - if it's not working, then disrupt the hell out of it!!

And right here on DU yesterday someone referred to this bill in a positive light as the 'death of the status quo'...when asked to elaborate? Crickets.

This is a sad, sad excuse for 'reform'.

:(
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #17
45. A system that is killing us, choking on its own waste, and bankrupting the country
yeah wouldn't want to disrupt anything like that.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #45
541. Dems have kept the wars going three years . . . not so different from this game-playing!!
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 10:38 PM by defendandprotect
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3324SS Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
18. Obama is proving
that it does not matter who is in Congress.

As if Progressives were even given a chance to Compromise in the first place.

The Dem Position should have been Universal HC going in.

A Final Compromise would at least have Gov Price Controls of some kind or at least a Medicare Buy In.

Liberals and Progressives were ignored from the start.



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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
179. sacrificed to his image, not ignored, but I guess that works too
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #18
321. Single Payer advocates weren't even allowed a seat at the table
that says it all.
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #321
364. It was worst than that: some single payer advocates were arrested...
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 04:27 PM by liberation
... and that included people with MDs and RNs.

That is why I never accepted this piece of shit bill being shoveled down our throats: Because if they are willing to arrest those in favor of single payer options how, how on earth do they expect me to believe they will "consider" single payer later on when not only it will be harder, but the pols wont have an incentive to do so. I found the arguments used by the "pass the bill or else" crowd in this site to be not only intellectually dishonest, but down right insulting.


It is time for "retarded" progressives to leave Mr. Obama and his merry DLC to their own devices. It is clear they are hostile to us, I have no clue why they feel entitled to our votes though. But it takes two to tango, so progressives need to move on and stop trying to gain the validation of moderate conservatives like this Obama administration.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #364
381. Excellent point. It's like to see anyone who has been pushing the current HCR
to address everything in your post.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #18
433. Welcome!
:hi:
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
20. well, the left is, after all, 'fucking retards' according to his advisor
and corporations do run the show.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Evidently, it has been pretty well illustrated that his advisor's boss feels the same about us
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lwcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. It's not just his advisor


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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #24
181. +1
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #24
397. Yep. How quickly it's all forgotten. nt
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #20
180. He just told EVERYONE, liberals cannot be allowed to govern.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #180
542. That, too -- though Rahm was a bit nastier . . . "F'ing retarded"???!!!
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ipaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
25. Wouldn't want to disrupt a system that enriches the top 1% and kills
tens of thousands of americans a year. Nope. Can't have that in this orwellian conservative is the new liberal progressive world. And being informed means you have mastered the finer points of the tested and approved corporate propaganda talking points.

After 30 years of deregulation and the corporate takeover of the media the population is perfectly primed to swallow whole anything the thoroughly bought off government tells them to.

Questions are not allowed. "Lefties" must be marginalized.

I'll give it to the corporate giants on this one. Their pick of president was brilliant and the pr machine during the campaign was the best ever. They literally have manipulation of the masses down to a science. Lots of practice makes perfect.

for profit health ins. = health care

war = peace

increasing private armies = withdrawal

charter schools and vouchers = public education

busting unions = supporting workers

massive financial fraud on a scale that unimaginable = oops!

taxpayer bailouts of top 1% time and time again = democracy
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #25
184. ++good
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #25
585. "They literally have manipulation of the masses down to a science."

Amazing, isn't it. I mean, most people actually believed they were voting for "Hope" and "Change".
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
27. Was the public option on that list, President Obama??
:grr:
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #27
37. That was one of my first thoughts too. nt
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #27
186. Insurance industrial complex list/centrist hitlist? Absolutely.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #27
535. This is the same guy who has been calling insurance companies "evil" -- !!!
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NCarolinawoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
28. I wonder if he would have said that out loud if Teddy were alive?
Ted Kennedy, the LIBERAL LION of the senate, who had such "faith" in him.
x(
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. I almost think that alone angers me more than the rest
How obama could essentially lie in Teddy's face, and now dance on his grave.

liar. liar. liar.




Tansy Gold
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lukasahero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #28
41. This post makes me cry
:cry:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #28
44. And when he signs the bill, he'll invoke Teddy. What a farce. n/t
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #44
539. Oh, jeebus, is THAT ever going to be hard to take!
:puke:
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #28
187. .
:applause:
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #187
195. I like your pin in your sig. could also read Healthcare is a Right for the Privileged.
that would be more representative of how things are today....
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #195
221. indeed
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
30. The Left has ALWAYS been the Democratic Party's "extreme" position.
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 09:13 AM by old mark
they trot us out when they want to make political points with the "average voters" - as in "we COULD have gone with THIS "RADICAL" policy, but we settled on THIS lukewarm dishwater that solves little and pleases no one instead so we can get along with the moderate republicans and the chickenshit conservative "Democrats".

Can't offend the Catholic Church, can't offend the Moderate GOP, can't offend the undecided voters, but always ready to fuck the Democratic Left...but you guys keep on doin' such a great job, and vote for US!!! because we really need you ....till we don't.
Been like this since the '60's that I am personally aware of, I doubt it will change now.

mark


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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #30
61. The difference is in the 60s the Left was still on the left.
lol
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #61
138. Yeah - even the Left moved to the right since the '70's......nt
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coti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #30
109. Isn't it hilarious? Think about it- he's actually saying, "You know, we could have
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 11:58 AM by coti
given you the OPTION of buying into a government health insurance plan, but since you don't describe yourself as a liberal we know that you're not interested in having those choices."

It's just such a radical idea, you know? One that the polls show over 60% support for, and seems totally a matter of common sense. But, it's not corporatism, so it's radical.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #109
546. Let's be honest. . . if they gave the public an honest choice between capitalism and socialism ....
right now, they know which way it would go --

Capitalism would be down the ole sink hole!!

That's what Obama is protecting against --

You do see the mood even on DU . . . right?

And -- Catholics also support a government run health care plan au contraire to

the lies of the US Catholic Bishops!! And, they want reproductive care, as well --

including contraception and abortion.

So if any truth be told, the right wing is dead!

They're mummifying it, however, and telling us to shove off!!!

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #30
545. Wait . . . you're saying liberals/progressives are MORE left than FDR/New Deal?
Hardly -- !!!

Remember, the New Deal programs -- Social Security was to include a universal

health care system!

FDR didn't get to it -- Truman tried and failed --

However, certainly all of the New Deal has been reversed --

and we've been returned to corporatism . . . which is fascism.

Unregulated capitalism is merely organized crime!

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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #30
562. During the 1970's being on the "Left" meant being Mainstream
The Democratic party had clear positions on the issues then; pro-civil rights, environment, union, education, choice, social justice, gun control, and anti war, death penalty, corporate power, authoritarianism, etc. Now the party stands for little more than quietly preserving the status quo. Things really HAVE changed; they've shifted dramatically to the Right.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
31. Way to be an advocate Obama.
:sarcasm:
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
33. And what did he get in return for trashing the left: NOTHING.
nt
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lukasahero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #33
43. Exactly!
And yet, the trashing continues, the play to the right continues even when it's freakin' obvious they will not compromise. So discouraging.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #33
53. Not true. He pushed "the center" even further right (which is what he wanted to do.) nt
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #53
57. Good point
but it became apparent to everyone, except him possibly(?), that the Republicans were NEVER going to come to the table and support ANYTHING.

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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #53
417. The center is now straight up 1980s Republican.
It's really a vote between Republicans and proto-Fascist elements. Not only is there no left in this country, there isn't much of a center remaining either.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #33
188. Security. Cash. Campaigns don't pay for themselves.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #33
547. Obama fulfilled the promise he made to the corporates . . .
the "for profit" health care corporations --

and Obama promised there would be NO GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTH CARE PROGRAM!!!

Obviously, they have leverage over Obama -- we don't!

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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
34. so.... centrist = sensible and left = destructive?
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 09:30 AM by Solly Mack
O.K. then

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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. Sorry Solly, but Bret Baier did the interview and it is a transcript, not an article. nt
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. S'OK. Thanks! I didn't watch is all. I never watch Fox.
I did read the transcript.

Thank you again!!



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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #34
189. +1
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sea four Donating Member (96 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
38. The Democrats have to be right wing
to get lots of corporate campaign contributions. Billionaires don't like "class warfare" or "far-left" people like Sanders and Kucinich. Moderate Dems are good for business...
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #38
549. And Rahm is in the White House making sure Obama doesn't stray . . .
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
39. He ran as a centrist and is governing as a centrist
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #39
46. He could remain a centrist, whatever that means, and still not trash the left
as a way to appease the right, or more likely, as a wink to his corporate donors.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #46
49. the left is Persona Non Grata, it seems
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #49
56. What does that tell you? It tells me that corporati want even MORE
impunity than they have now because the only push back they get is from the left. So, marginalize the left and that takes care of that.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #56
60. we are invisible to these people
to their own doom, actually. it was once their base.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #60
62. Yup. They're finessing themselves out of a job. n/t
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #62
347. Finessing? Or, triangulating? But, they're building up a handy scapegoat for their failures.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #39
48. And that's why I voted Uncommitted in my Minnesota caucus in 2008
:-(

I couldn't stand either Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton, because it was so obvious that they were the two candidates agreed upon by the corporate media.

In early 2007, the corporate media were already acting as if they were the only Dem contenders.

That told me that I could never support either one with any enthusiasm.

I did vote for Obama with great reluctance. But seeing what we got, I wish I had voted third party.
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emmadoggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #48
368. Ditto!
I felt EXACTLY the same way. Except I didn't vote Uncommitted. Wish I had.

I hated the way they were shoved down our throats and I hated the way everyone seemed to get so swept up in all the hype that they didn't focus on what was underneath it all. I always felt that Obama was way too conciliatory with the R's, and none of his proposals really impressed me. They were mostly only slight deviations from the status quo - not a whole lot of "change" as far as I could see. I thought his health care proposal was one of the weakest of the bunch.

I also voted for him with much reluctance and "hope" that he would turn out better than I was expecting. Those hopes have been dashed.
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #39
54. Centrist, my arse!
Corporatist is more likely. I guess Medicare and Social Security are ideals from the extreme left. Now days, anything that doesn't support big business-but actually helps the people is extreme left. Those wild, wacky lefties-I tell you, what would this country be like without them? The majority of the populace wanted a strong PO--I guess Obama must be placating all those wacky lefties--NOT!!!!
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #54
282. +1
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #39
64. He ran as a man who claimed he could change the way
politics was done. He ran on 'we are going to change this country, and change the world'. He ran on 'WE are the ones we have been waiting for'. He ran not just opposed to mandates, but utterly mocking them as larcenous and unneeded.
Show a link, please, to him on the trail saying "I am a centrist and will govern as a centrist."
Change. He ran on change. Change you can believe in.
Not sure what campaign you were listening to. McCain's maybe? That tax in the 'reform' was his idea, one that Obama claimed to oppose. Until he won.
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #64
71. Oops
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 10:47 AM by Marr
Mis-post. Sorry. :)
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Toasterlad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #39
66. That Centrist Campaigned On the Public Option.
Not to mention a whole host of other things he promised that he had no intention of delivering.

He's a lying corporate hack.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #66
81. Did Bill Clinton openly mock the left this way?
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #81
127. No. n/t
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #81
157. But the left openly hates Bill and Hillary. I fucking laugh @ that.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #81
222. +1
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #81
415. I knew Obama would be to the right of the Clintons. Which is scary in itself.
Fierce advocate of the plutocrats. But we knew this with the Holder appointment, didn't we El Ferrari? :)
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #415
455. Chiquita's lawyer. Oh, man.
I know, it's only a four year term.
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coti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #39
82. No, he absolutely did not run as a centrist, or as a "corporatist," which is a much more apt
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 11:28 AM by coti
descriptor.

He ran as a moderate liberal. He ran on seemingly countless promises that he has now reneged on, many of them involving healthcare reform, including the public option, drug reimportation, no individual mandates, repeal of the anti-trust exemption, and no Cadillac tax. Yes, he ran on ALL of those populist issues, those good ideas, and was elected because he did. Then he threw them all out and left us with just about the crappiest healthcare "reform" one could imagine.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #39
89. Just like he ran as a fierce advocate and is governing as...well...
oh, never mind.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #39
97. Yeah, the fierce advocate centrist who favored the public option. Whatever.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #97
151. And a single payer system. nt
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #39
121. He ran on a center left vision of health care reform. He is governing from center right. nt
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #121
429. He's actually governing from the straight-up right with some center and center-left rhetoric.
Busting teachers' unions and bailing out insurers, banks, and businesses is a solid right-wing position.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #39
193. Except if you listen to scientists, you know, SCIENCE IS BACK
like Lakoff, there is no such thing as centrist, but I know, folks ignore all kinds of things they don't agree with.

And fuck that, says the centrist. Please go back to using your BIG BLUE DOG. It's more honest.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #39
209. No - he ran as a Centrist and is governing as a SOLID Rightist.
Corporatism is not the center.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #39
507. Oh, using references to the Pullman Strike and Cesar Chavez is running as a centrist, huh?
If he ran as a centrist, he'd never've won.

Center of what? Monsanto and Blackwater?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #39
550. Obama is a corporatist . . . which means he's on the right . .. so is this HC "reform" ...
In fact, Howard Dean tonight made clear this is NOT health care reform ---

and pegged it to a "Romeny-type-plan" . . . that would be on the RIGHT . . .


A GOP TYPE HEALTH CARE PLAN . . . ON THE RIGHT!!

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GreenArrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
50. We're the liverwurst
caught between two slices of stale pumpernickel
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
52. Today's Centrist = "moderate Republican" of 20 years ago.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #52
199. Too kind, but agreed
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
58. He's "rejected" the left. Well, that's nice. Get back to us in November for our reply. .
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Gin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #58
63. but he gives a good speech
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #58
70. I'm voting for Pigasus.
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Neecy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
67. That's it.
They really think we'll just 'get in line' in 2012 and vote for him again. Not a chance. Not a goddamn chance. This is the final insult.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #67
194. "Now, we can fix this in a way that is sensible, that is centrist."
Nice backhand huh? I don't know about you but I never get tired of being insulted by people that expect me to show up and vote for them. Good luck in 2012 "centrists".
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
68. Clue: The system IS disrupted.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #68
201. And Obama is Chief Disruptor. What a transformative guy.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
69. K & R. Interesting to note who we have not heard from in this thread.
Cause this directly contradicts a lot of arguments we have seen around here over the past too many months.
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
72. You know, there's a word for rejecting ideas deemed 'disruptive to the system'.
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 10:51 AM by Marr
It's "conservative".

Who knew the Change he was selling had to fit squarely into the current system?
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #72
202. +1
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
73. I'm finished with the man.
:puke:
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
74. pure contempt!
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PufPuf23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
75. Disappointing and cold
There was a serious disconnect beginning with cabinet and staff appointments.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #75
76. Ugly, too, coming on the same day that he got Dennis to sign on.
I"m sorry. That's just rude.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #76
90. back stabbing
usually reserved for the left and minorities.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #76
100. "I have rejected" -- of course, when it comes to DADT, he "can't control Congress". Whatever,"O-man"
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #100
111. How do I keep supporting a president that doesn't support me.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #111
155. Good question
I can't find many reasons to anymore, so I'm looking for a third party alternative (yeah, I know; good luck with that)!
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #155
390. If enough people do the same, who knows what might happen?
:shrug:
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #390
511. Obama will discover the true meaning and result of his own words.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #155
552. Whatever we do, we have to do it as a BLOC ---
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #111
370. Very good question, indeed.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #100
112. Oh, but that's DIFFERENT!
How, exactly, I'm not sure--but it's all part of the Grand Strategy!

Now watch this drive.
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #100
315. Does that sound like an Emporer's proclamatiion?
Or is it just me?
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #315
398. "We are not amused."
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #398
414. LOL The Empress Victoria
aka Mrs. Brown :)
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #414
543. zactlickly!
lol
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #76
551. Yep. . . I'd like to hear Dennis' comments on this Obama arrogance . . .!!
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
77. K&R
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
78. Love me, love me, love me
I'm really on your side. Really.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #78
149. and I promise never to hit you again. nt
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
79. He left out what a solid majority wanted too.
Funny how he leaves that out.

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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #79
204. +1 We don't have majority rule. Who cares what the pawns want anyway?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #79
554. Also would like to see the UNION's comments on this --
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branders seine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
80. the entire DC political apparatus is conservative and pro-corporate.
The parties hate "liberals" equally.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #80
555. The power shifted but only because of political violence ....
that's something we have to face --

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coti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
83. So he admits it wasn't the Senate. Good- that's progress, at least. nt
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #83
207. He's taking his bows and backslaps. Can't wait for the encore.
www.whipcongress.com

The people whipped the vote and exposed the Senate.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
84. Duh! Way to get the most out of your triangulation though.
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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
85. what's wrong with disrupting a broken system????
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
87. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #87
94. Now the President tells the "Left" that our ideas are and aren't sensible
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 11:44 AM by Bluebear
Lovely.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #94
101. I think you are replying to my deleted message --
Funny, I could tell Bush to "f**k off" when he was screwing us over back in the day. :eyes:
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #101
102. That was different. Of course.
We're supposed to bend over and take this.
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #101
104. but it's all good when a New Democrat does it.
:eyes:
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #94
124. Iiked his quote so much --
I made it my sig line. I want everyone here to remember this.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #124
162. Grand idea.
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #162
486. its a damned grand idea!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #124
556. Great idea . . . . and Unions and Women should pay special attention ...!!!
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
88. while adopting Republican ideas
that's the ticket!
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
92. Arrogant.
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 11:46 AM by Bluebear
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
96. Have a fun retirement in 2013
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
98. He rejected the Stupak amendment too.
He accepted Bernie Sander's state single payer provision.

So on balance, the bill is better.

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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #98
154. Big fucking whoop.
So we have Nelson's panty sniffing language instead of Stupak's.

Really, ProSense, of all things you have to go and bring up Stupak. You and your ilk have spent so much time bashing dirty hippies on the internet (who have no vote in Congress) and so little going after the forced birthers and the Blue Dogs it is sickening. Remarkable that you show up in an OP quoting Obama dissing the Left with this. :puke:
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #154
177. Hello_Kitty, have I told you recently that
:yourock: ?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #154
464. It is a "Big fucking whoop."
Pretty sure if that was still in the bill, it would be.

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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
105. this seals the deal for me. i will not vote for this man again..
fucking arrogant asshole. good luck getting the centrists to do the heavy lifting during the campaign.
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optimator Donating Member (606 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
106. this disproves my theory that Obama was a political coward
he is actively an enemy of the left now and never had any intention of "change."
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #106
505. He's a charlatan who used leftist history ("si se puede", etc) against the left.
I literally can't stand the guy anymore and I completely hate the fact that I went against my better judgement and voted for him.
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piratefish08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
108. Welcome to the underside of the bus...........
get comfortable.
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Betty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
116. At least he's being honest about who he works for.
and even though he's saying in no uncertain terms that he works for The System, the repigs will NEVER accept him as one of their own.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #116
211. +1
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #116
376. I would have appreciated this level of honesty and candor before wasting my time campaigning for him
in 08 though.

All that time I wasted phone banking, money sent, and registering people to vote for Mr. Obama. When I could have been at home making sweet sweet love to my better half.

Oh, well. I am not going to claim I was naive enough to pretend a moderate jackass who was so short on specifics during the campaign was going to implement many liberal policies. I was not expecting to be shown plain hostility as a "thank you" though.

Lesson learned, the whole "lesser of two evils" black mail bullshit does not work with me anymore. I will vote progressives from now on, if the Dem party feels like shifting to the right, good for them. I assume the Green Party at this point need all the help they can get to establish a viable 3rd party alternative which actually supports my ideals and interests. What a concept: voting for those who are interested in representing you, rather than voting for those who feel entitle to my vote and have nothing but contempt for my ideology in return.

Bye bye, hope all those corporate campaign donations in 2012 are worth it.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #116
558. Yes -- though that seems to have been clear from the first days of his elopement
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 11:04 PM by defendandprotect
into the White House with Rahm/DLC --

and the rest of the corporatists --

corporatism is fascism . . .

let's not forget that!

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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
117. Please note that it was a caluclated move to refer to us as "the left"
That conjures up a very negative image for many people...he purposely wanted to trash us.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #117
212. +1
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #117
560. Evidently he doesn't even consider us part of the Dem Party!!!
it's "them" and "us" . . . we're outsiders!!!

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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
118. My Post Would Get Deleted for Saying What's on My Mind regarding Obama
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #118
213. There are worse things than having your post deleted.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
119. Understatement. He's rejected almost everything the left wanted. nt
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DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
129. Abolishing slavery was pretty disruptive to the system.
That whole "civil war" thing and what not. A shame that sensible centrists weren't there to cut a deal with the secessionists.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #129
140. +100
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #129
169. Zing! Exactly! Though I notice that "ignored" isn't here to defend
Obama's position. None of them are. Odd that.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #129
196. +1
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #129
215. ouch
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #129
561. +1000% . . . . perfect comment -- K&R --
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #129
594. Actually, the Civil War was only disruptive to the South
Edited on Fri Mar-19-10 02:49 AM by Art_from_Ark
Nearly all the major battles were fought in the South. 99% of the destruction occurred in the South. The whole vengeful attitude of the post-war era, including the way in which Reconstruction was carried out, set the stage for 90-100 years of lingering hostility in the South, both toward "yankees" and toward blacks. If a deal could have been cut with the "secessionists" that would have phased out slavery (which was already repealed or on the way out in the rest of the civilized world) without bloodshed, in exchange for providing alternatives for a real Southern economy, instead of one based on one crop and slavery, then things might have been different. Maybe there wouldn't have been the long sordid history of lynchings, voter suppression, sharecropping, Jim Crow laws, etc., that survived in much of the South well into the 1960s.
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DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #594
644. Still fighting the War of Northern Aggression I see.
There were all kinds of deals cut with the South, like the Missouri Compromise and the Compromise of 1850 which included the Fugitive Slave Act. You'd be hard pressed to show me how compromise led to a weakening of the pro-slavery position in the South. You seceded anyway and started the war. You are living in a pro-south fairy tale, but I will grant you this, there would have been much less disruption to the system if the south had been placated as you suggest.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
130. And this is something to be "proud of"?
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #130
217. if you're a centrist
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
136. knr - wonderful :( n/t
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
147. I wanna laugh but can't help but cry. I can't believe Kennedy got fooled too.
Y'all bought the magic the campaign created. I told y'all back in the day he wasn't a progressive.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #147
152. I knew he wasn't a progressive but I didn't think he'd diss us to Fox.
I swear, I didn't know that.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #152
159. One thing you can say about Bill and Hillary, they never did that shit.
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Lord Helmet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #159
200. Really?
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 01:06 PM by Lord Helmet
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #200
245. Yup. I shouldn't have put Hillary on there.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #147
185. I'm with you. I never thought he was a progressive.
I did think he was at least a Democrat, though.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #147
219. Charming, smart, and pretty are deadly all rolled together in one package
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
153. words can't describe how I feel !
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
156. Some days I feel like he is a doctor who skipped over trying to heal the patient and went straight
to, "Well, we'll try to make him as comfortable as we can."
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #156
220. Thought you were going to say, "went straight for the patient's wallet."
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #220
249. Well, that too.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
172. Rahm got paid, the disruptive excuse is weak.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
210. Well then I guess the centrists and conservatives have it all handled.
They won't need me in 2010 and 2012 so I'll just vote for some senseless 3rd party candidates or leave my ballot blank.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
216. Yet he wasn't worried about adapting Republican provisions
such as Mandated Ins. being disruptive. I guess he thought if he appeased the right they would stop throwing tantrums.

Democrats remind me of parents I have met whose children throw a fit every time they say 'no' to them. Their way of handling their tantrums is to give them what they want just to shut them up. Then they cry about how difficult their child is and wonder why.

The day we get a Democrat who is more afraid of the tantrums their base might throw, than what Republicans might do, we will win, I don't mean elections, which doesn't seem to mean anything, I mean really win.

But you see it everywhere, online, on TV coming from Dems, appeasement and defeatism, 'we can't do this and we can't do that' and it becomes a self-fulling prophecy. Republicans view democrats as easy prey, thanks to our leadership. Just throw a fit and call them names, and you can get what you want.

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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
230. He's trashing his own presidency -- for whatever reason.
Maybe he's a true believer, maybe he really is captured. It doesn't matter what the cause, as far as we the people are concerned it's back to our duty as citizens.
We've waited long enough for change that isn't coming from DC. To paraphrase Howard Zinn: politicians have to compromise, citizens don't.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
231. Yes, he's made it clear he doesn't need the left
just so he doesn't turn around and blame us if things don't go well this November or 2012.
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nvme Donating Member (486 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
232. Now I know What Ted Bundy's girlfriend feels
Ugh!
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
233. Centrist, my fanny
Centrist would be including a public option (taking left as single payer and right as the corporate bill billed as reform).

The other day I was talking to my sister and a niece about this.

My sister, who is a centrist, veering from there left with me on some issues and right on others put it succinctly:
"Why can't we just have the socialist health care that works for all these other countries."

Actually, she peppered that with quite a bit of profanity and was pissed as hell when she said it.

She didn't use single payer or universal in naming it. She views single payer as socialist and her union, blue collar, pragmatic self is saying straight out that she has no issues with that and thinks it's clearly what should have been done from the start and she proceeded to make quite the argument for it (convinced the niece, who's generally apolitical but doesn't like the direction this is taking, in minutes, that this is the case. Mind you, once our niece listened to the issues with the terminology explained or stripped away, that was the policy direction she already agreed with, just as the polls have repeatedly shown.

Obama and Rahm clearly think we "left" are a small enough faction to be able to openly reject, but many real centrists out there are feeling the same rejection and are grumbling loudly in private and will likely just keep their distance in public by disengaging from voting.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
235. the left's ideas happened to be better, serve more people, cost less, and is more popular
good policy and representative democracy--are those extremist ideas?
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #235
244. hippy
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
239. even my reliably lefty Senator Barbara Boxer used a line like that in FUNDRAISING letter to me...
and when I gave to governor candidate Jerry Brown, in his email reply, he talked about reaching across the aisle to work with Republicans.

If you have any doubt that a policy is corrupt, when the pols started talking about bipartisanship, that should remove all doubt.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #239
563. Wow . . . Barbara Boxer and Jerry Brown . . . Yikes!!!! But thanks for telling us!!
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colsohlibgal Donating Member (670 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
247. Now We Know For Sure
...that he has picked up the republican lite mantle and more from Bubba. I'm frankly terribly offended by that comment and beyond that he's dead (double meaning) wrong about it being sensible, unless he's talking to people like that Well Point CEO B word woman.

I'm done with him and I really hope he is challenged hard from the left in 2012.
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johnlal Donating Member (974 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
248. Who can we draft in the 2012 primary?
It's obvious that Obama never really wanted the Public Option or Single Payer. He needs to go.
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #248
260. I guess Kucinich has lost his halo too....
Gee, what other left wing progressive is there who would sweep this country off its feet, put the electorate in a dead swoon and defeat an incumbent Democratic President? Hmmm. There must be dozens of ways to win with 30% of the vote. God knows the Tea Baggers are giving it their best shot.

It'll never happen in 10,000 million years.
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johnlal Donating Member (974 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #260
284. Then he can probably win comfortably
without my vote.
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #260
477. And that's how you crush dissent!
Go futility!
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #260
478. Self delete
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 08:30 PM by Moochy
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #260
657. Thank you.
The crazy in here, it burns.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #248
325. Grayson? Weiner? I wish that Bill Moyers were younger
he'd be great!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #248
564. Who do we have leverage over? How do we get leverage?
Michael Moore was suggesting that we have to get a PLEDGE from the next

candidate to move and support a Constitutional amendment to knock out

corporate "personhood."

I think PLEDGES are going to be what we have to go for -- because otherwise

it's just talk.

Signed Pledges!!!


And despite whatever BS the Supremes want to supports, we have to continue to

call campaign finance what it is -- BRIBERY.

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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
252. Thank you for my new sig. nt
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #252
285. +1 That is borderline if not outright subversive.
:spank:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
254. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #254
257. /ignore at long last. Talk about pathetic.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #254
258. What utter baloney. Do you go to the enemy camp and diss your friends?
What would that make you?
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #258
259. "You people are pathetic" - of course he would.
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #258
261. A politician. What's the next question.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #261
266. Is that what we're calling it. Okay. n/t
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #258
485. A Centrist
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #254
263. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #254
286. .
:spray: :rofl:

:patriot:
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #254
326. Right, he's talking politics
But some people, as you've accurately described, are just determined to be victims of some vast conspiracy.

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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #254
437. Do you think Bush would've went on Air America and apologized for the Right-Wing?
Yeah, I didn't fucking think so.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #437
567. Think Karl Rove ever called them "F-ing retards" . . .????
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 11:15 PM by defendandprotect
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #254
474. I expect him to tell the truth, which he did. He gets credit for that
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 08:13 PM by sabrina 1
much at least. He took every amendment submitted by Democrats out of the bill. We knew that, so all this is, is a public admission. Meantime as he said himself, at the Health Care Summit, he didn't understand why Republicans were so upset with the bill, because 'I included many of their ideas'. Nancy pointed that out also. They sound like victims of bullies beggin them to notice that they are NOT friends with 'lefty'. And that they reall, really did say nice things about the bullies'. And as expected, the bullies just laugh.

I can't imagine Grayson, eg, or Kucinich who has also been on Fox and managed to never denegrate his own party's supporters, making a statement like that about the 'left'.

It's NOT a surprise, his COS has made it clear what this administration thinks of the people who got them elected. I agree with the commenter above, since he's so cavalier about the 'left' and their silly ideas like a fair and equitable health care system, he won't need them in the next election.

How many Fox viewers do you think will support him no matter how he sucks up to them? Not a single one is the answer, so he may as well have had the guts to stand up for the people who stood up for him. At least even some on the right could respect him.

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Puglover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #474
624. That's the sad irony here.
He can suck up to these people from now until forever and they'll never accept him. Whatever, the man has made it clear he doesn't need my vote.
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Lyric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #254
557. "Whining?" Are you insane?
This is so far beyond WHINING that it's ridiculous. Wake the hell up.
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #254
595. LOL
wow - talk about delusional. WHAT right wing ideas has he rejected? He IS right wing!! Oh, you meant the bat-shit crazies who watch Fox! Alright then what left wing ideas has he adopted for health insurance reform??? I can't think of a damn one.
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Juche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
256. Is he a good politician or a terrible one?
During the 2008 election, he was an amazing politician. He knew how to make his enemies make themselves look like idiots while he got away clean. He brought tons of young people and minorities into the polls.

Now, I don't know. He is alienating unions & liberals. Who goes on fox news and criticizes the left?
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Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #256
280. Ann Coulter?
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
262. Now watch this drive.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #262
289. Watch it.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
264. Is he talking about single payer?
That would indeed be the "disruption" this system needs, but the President never put it on the table. I'm sick of him using "the left" like we are in a different galaxy - we are in the same party.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
265. We have to take our lumps. This is what "God, fate destiny and providence" intended for us. n/t
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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
268. K & R n/t
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d_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
269. what a chickenshit, lame-ass fucking thing to say
Barack Obama: Defender of The System.

Yea, who remembers THAT guy from the campaign trail :wtf:





Good luck with all those centrist votes in '12.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
270. Why should I vote for this person again?
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nyc 4 Biden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
272. k&r but come on!
you have to give people a warning before they click on a fox "news" link.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #272
276. I hear ya, but Obama did the interview on Fox News.. , plus it's just a transcript. nt
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nyc 4 Biden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
273. k&r but come on!
you have to give people a warning before they click on a fox "news" link.
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
274. We're In The Crosshairs Here
For sure.
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
278. Amen

Why should the left apologize, when the crisis(es)(es) we are in are the result of bad conservative / libertarian policy?

What exactly is the disconnect in this country, where we (and the entire world) are broke over two specious wars and the direct result of banking de-regulation and rich-friendly tax policy, all solid gold, conservative ideas, and yet Democrats have to spend all of their time and energy proving that they are far enough to the RIGHT?

We need to reset the "normal" button in this country.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #278
631. It is a basic tenet of Friedman economics that no matter what shit they create
it wouldn't have been shit if they'd just created more of it. (not kidding)
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nightrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
283. yep. cater to the R and demean the L
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Sheepshank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
287. Oh gawd...looking for reasons to be offended
While you may be sick of 'that' shit, I'm sick of the martyr syndrome going on here lately. So there!

Could you just once try and see the verbal game being played, instead of being so narrowly/literally focused on the literary? Obama smacking the crap out of the Reps, bopping them just one more time on the back of the head, and saying "....are you so self indulgent, so self centered that you think you are the only ones that have made a sacrifice?"
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #287
291. War is peace!


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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #287
294. Weak, pathetic, spineless nonsense and excuses.
One of the better remedies is to be involved, show up, join a real grassroots organization like DFA.

Verbal games, whatever.
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pecwae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #287
318. The old chessmaster routine.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #287
338. 'Obama smacking the crap out of the Reps' LOL
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #338
356. That was a gentle love pat. n/t
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #287
446. LMFAO.. yeah.. it was a brilliant play.. I was just too stupid to see it.
Thank god there are people like you who are willing to wade through the martyr's and tell us how wrong we are and how well we are being treated. After all I only donated, worked, and voted for Obama, those hero's on Fox have... oh wait...

:rofl: :rofl:

Sucker.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
288. By late today, DK will no longer be my avatar. Sadly, I agree with everyone who
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 03:08 PM by truedelphi
Has stated that he is only a grand stander.

Do these people (Woolsey, Kucinich, et al) REALLY think that Obama will let them have a fix or two inside this bill at some time in the future?

Do they not remember Rahm calling us Progressives "retards?"

One ride in Air Force One and Obama has shilled his nonsense to Kooch in such a charming way that the one air plane ride will get DK's vote?

If Kooch was the deciding vote, why in the world didn't he get a concession or two. I don't care what the concession was - maybe everyone whose last name begins with "Da to De" holds the same bennies that those in the Senate do.

But the guy didn't even have the President throw him a bone. Instead, he folded for no discernible quid pro quo.



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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #288
297. Would you prefer he didn't use his position and soapbox?
Obama is the new wrecking crew. I don't think DK could stand up to that. Obama has the dollars behind him to take down anyone and Kucinich was essentially hung out to dry. All Obama could do is try to reassure DK that his time would come and PO come later if at all.

Did Obama go and campaign against Stupak or Lincoln, hadn't really heard?
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #297
311. One thing that startled me, and not in a good way -
Kucinich said that the President has met with him four times (or maybe he said the President had talked to him four times)

Big whoop! The President has met with the Conservative Senators, some of them for upwards of forty six times.

We as a nation are just so screwed.

And then we have things like California's Prop 14 hanging over our heads - a proposition whose fate will rest on faulty voting machinery.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #311
568. Nothing honest is happening in "America" . . .
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #297
490. yeah, I thought about DK's turn
I'm wondering what kind of arm twisting is going on? We know * did it--his own base-during the pharma rip off bill, there were some Republicans against it. The administration bribed, bullied and coerced to get that "screw you" shite bill passed.
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GinaMaria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #288
538. Whatever it was, they got to him. It had to be something
big, either a promise or a threat.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
290. Well, And So It Goes!! I Will Need To Get Back & Read This Whole
thing, just wanted to comment so I can re-visit later! Have to run out for a while.

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Prism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
292. The Sista Souljah Presidency
This man cannot distance himself from liberals fast enough.

And for what? They still call him a socialist. I'm always told that President Obama is a man of deep intelligence. Then why does he have trouble learning the simplest, most basic truth of Washington? No matter what he does, the GOP will paint him as a leftist radical. It should have taken the average person about a week to notice that. We're 14 months into his presidency, and he's still staring blankly at the political landscape.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #292
306. I am not afraid of failure, conflict, or what Republican bullies say.
Don't know if the same can be said of Obama.
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Prism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #306
328. You'd think obvious human truths would be obvious
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 03:27 PM by Prism
The more you fear failure, the more you guarantee it. The more you avoid conflict, the worse it will be when it comes. The more you give in to bullies, the more they will demand.

This is not hidden wisdom, and yet it's a total mystery to this President.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #328
330. Seems so.
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lwcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #292
307. Why?
Because he's happy with the outcomes he's getting.

He's a child of Reagan, and he's governing like it's Ronnie's "morning in America." Heck, Obama's logo is "morning in America.
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Prism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #307
324. I'm beginning to think it's psychological
He has this odd need to be liked, to be seen as a presiding presence, the guy in the middle bringing everyone together.

Which is wonderful for the Harvard Review.

But it doesn't work in an American Presidency in a time of fundamental crisis where one party has spent the last 30 years going off a right-wing cliff, tearing up the Constitution, and stomping on the middle class.

Which all of us know. But, for whatever reason, he does not. I think it's an odd form of denial.

Every time I read one of these interviews, I hear "Please, love me! Loooove meeeee!" coming from the man. Lord, what a miscalculation he has been. I cannot be sorry enough for my behavior in 2008.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #324
359. I regret the way I badgered the people at work to vote for him.
Now I feel like a fool, and I am getting a lot of "told you so" from the colleagues.
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Prism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #359
366. I was looking up old posts the other night
I came across some of the primary arguments I got into in the GLBT forum in defense of Obama.

I felt like slinking off for a month to hide my head in shame. Cringe-worthy does not begin to describe it. It was physically uncomfortable to see just how wrong wrong can be.
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juno jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #366
475. Don't be too hard on yourself.
I keep going over it and he simply didn't show himself then to be what he turned out to be. I knew he was pretty centrist but I was in the game because he was against mandates, for public health options, against taxing benefits, etc.

He also was IIRC anti-torture and pro-transparency in government.

No candidate in my memory has been as duplicitous in his message.

He and the triangulating "D" party can pound sand, they will get no money,votes or time outta me now or ever again.



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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #366
569. Happened to a lot of people . . .think of what this means for unions and women . .. the LEFT!!!
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lwcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #324
435. I think that assumes that he actually wants not to be the right-"centrist" he is
It's a good Occam's Razor practice to assume that a politician generally does what s/he believes in (even if that's simply doing what the corporate overlords demand).

We tend to give undue credit to Dems who vote like Repubs, assuming that they really wanted to do something different. After a while, the shoe should be recognized as fitting like a glove.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
296. So, it's not that they couldn't pass the Senate, but rather...
... "I rejected...."
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #296
298. +1
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 02:57 PM by Mithreal
Too many people were leaking. My Senator's CoS, she is a member of Senate leadership, blames Obama for obstructing the process and sticking a knife in the back of those fighting on the side of the Ame