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babsbunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 07:57 PM
Original message
Central Figure in CDC Vaccine Cover-Up Absconds With $2M
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr/centr...

A central figure behind the Center for Disease Control's (CDC) claims disputing the link between vaccines and autism and other neurological disorders has disappeared after officials discovered massive fraud involving the theft of millions in taxpayer dollars. Danish police are investigating Dr. Poul Thorsen, who has vanished along with almost $2 million that he had supposedly spent on research.

Thorsen was a leading member of a Danish research group that wrote several key studies supporting CDC's claims that the MMR vaccine and mercury-laden vaccines were safe for children. Thorsen's 2003 Danish study reported a 20-fold increase in autism in Denmark after that country banned mercury based preservatives in its vaccines. His study concluded that mercury could therefore not be the culprit behind the autism epidemic.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks for posting this but I'm not surprised and suspected something like this was going on.
Edited on Mon Mar-15-10 08:11 PM by earth mom
Obviously, Thorsen is nothing but a FRAUD and CRIMINAL! :grr:

Here's more:
"Thorsen, who was a psychiatrist and not a research scientist or toxicologist, parlayed that study into a long-term relationship with CDC. He built a research empire called the North Atlantic Epidemiology Alliances (NANEA) that advertised its close association with the CDC autism team, a relationship that had the agency paying Thorsen and his research staff millions of dollars to churn out research papers, many of them assuring the public on the issue of vaccine safety.

The discovery of Thorsen's fraud came as the result of an investigation by Aarhus University and CDC which discovered that Thorsen had falsified documents and, in violation of university rules, was accepting salaries from both the Danish university and Emory University in Atlanta -- near CDC headquarters -- where he led research efforts to defend the role of vaccines in causing autism and other brain disorders. Thorsen's center has received $14.6 million from CDC since 2002.

Thorsen's partner Kreesten Madsen recently came under fierce criticism after damning e-mails surfaced showing Madsen in cahoots with CDC officials intent on fraudulently cherry picking facts to prove vaccine safety.

Leading independent scientists have accused CDC of concealing the clear link between the dramatic increases in mercury-laced child vaccinations beginning in 1989 and the epidemic of autism, neurological disorders and other illnesses affecting every generation of American children since. Questions about Thorsens's scientific integrity may finally force CDC to rethink the vaccine protocols since most of the other key pro vaccine studies cited by CDC rely on the findings of Thorsen's research group. These include oft referenced research articles published by the Journal of the American Medical Association, the American Journal of Preventive Medicine, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the New England Journal of Medicine and others. The validity of all these studies is now in question."




Told all you naysayers so! :argh:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. Deleted message
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Sugarcoated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. Very interesting stuff
I agree, everything he's done has to be called into question.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 08:12 PM
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2. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Deleted message
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. DUPE
Edited on Mon Mar-15-10 09:52 PM by Odin2005
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. Here come the unreccers. Thanks for posting, RFKjr is always worth reading. K & R nt
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Archae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. Just great.
One guy steals money and that "proves" a cover-up.

Guess what!

I have 4 sisters.
7 nieces and nephews.
6 grand-nieces and nephews.

*ALL* of us got vaccinated, from 1954-today.
Not one case of autism.
Not one.

But make sure you listen to Jenny McCarthy, an actress, and RFK Jr, a politician.
*THEY* know better!

:eyes:
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Chal Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I don't think the guy disappearing proves a cover up.
His disappearance was linked to the fraud investigation. He ran because the heat was on.
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Archae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Exactly.
But read post #1.
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Chal Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I didn't know you were responding to post #1,
But, OTOH, is this guy the whole problem or the tip of the iceberg? Is the AJM looking over this guys research and making their recommendations based on faulty data? Or others?
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-10 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
39. Don't even bother. These vaccines=autism
people will never listen to reason or fact in this matter, they will just keep insisting there's a link no matter what. They can't handle the fact that their children have a so-called "disorder" and they have to find scapegoats for it. Jenny McCarthy is a know-nothing dip with absolutely no medical or scientific background and who's called for her pediatrician to be prosecuted for what he "did" to her son. Bull fucking shit. These people need to accept and love their children the way they are and recognize that some of our greatest art, science and inventions throughout the years comes from those on the autistic spectrum (yes, possibly even Mozart and Einstein).

And before people start in with the martyr bullshit of "you have no idea what it's like to be a parent of this", um, yeah, I most certainly DO. My son is an aspie, I know full well what I'm dealing with. And I wouldn't have him any other way. It's difficult and demanding, no question, but a lot of that is due to SOCIETAL attitudes and the ever-increasing demand for what I refer to as "neuroconformity", that everyone has to think alike and act alike and if they don't, they're "weird" and need to be ostracized and "dealt with." FAAAS is especially hateful and negative toward aspies and a lot of the problems my son will face in his life come from people and organizations like THAT, and the culture, and NOT from anything "wrong" with HIM. Period.

The entire autistic spectrum has existed for centuries, if not more. It's just that there's now far more awareness of even the slightest symptoms of those even in the mild part of the spectrum and far more testing at earlier ages. It has abso-freaking-lutely nothing to do with vaccines. This is nothing more than a modern version of the 1940's-50's "refrigerator mom" theory of the cause of autism, which was equally bullshit and damaged a lot of women and their families. Just like this vaccine bullshit is damaging due to people refusing to get vaccines out of some misguided paranoid bullshit, and, therefore, putting other people's children at risk for serious, even potentially life-threatening, illnesses.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. McCarthy's son isn't even autistic.
He has Landau-Kleffner Syndrome.
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Silver Gaia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-10 04:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
18. Vaccinations prior to 1989 are irrelevant in regard to this subject.
From the article:
Leading independent scientists have accused CDC of concealing the clear link between the dramatic increases in mercury-laced child vaccinations beginning in 1989 and the epidemic of autism, neurological disorders and other illnesses affecting every generation of American children since.

This also does not mean that EVERY vaccinated child will develop autism or some other disorder, but that a large proportion (too large) may. That we have seen a rise in the number of children with these conditions since 1989 is undeniable. I worked with special ed teachers back in the early to mid 90s who were talking about a possible link between these mercury-laced vaccinations and the rise in cases of autism we were seeing. So, it's not something new, and people in the field were suspicious about this link long before it became headline news. There IS legitimate reason for concern.
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happy_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-10 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. +1000
nt
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-10 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. "There IS legitimate reason for concern."
No, there isn't. This is as illegitimate as any woo woo conspiracy theory gets.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-10 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #24
40. It's as bad as the "refrigerator mom" theory
of the 1940's-50's, which was equally bullshit.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-10 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. Really? Which leading scientists?
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-10 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
41. Not everyone who smokes gets lung cancer, either. DUH.
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laundry_queen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-10 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. yep.
My grandfather is 96, been smoking since he was 11. No lung cancer. Therefore smoking doesn't cause lung cancer. See? I can play scientist too!

For those who need it: :sarcasm:
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Sugarcoated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #41
53. Exactly
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laundry_queen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-10 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
42. I don't think
that if you knew anything about science you would be claiming your family as proof that vaccines don't cause autism.
For one, it's anecdotal, and another, your sample size is too small to draw any conclusions.
just sayin'.
FTR, I don't know one way or the other, I'm just tired of the lack of real scientific research into this question and the misinformation on all sides.
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Sugarcoated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
12. Politics . . . money
looks like science isn't immune from it (no pun intended).
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Garbo 2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
13. How do we know he's "disappeared?" He's not responding to reporters' calls & emails.
Edited on Mon Mar-15-10 10:59 PM by Garbo 2004
Is that in itself proof he's disappeared & absconded? (An article I found: http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/87437502.htm... )

Any third party sources, news reports confirming this guy has actually disappeared? Is law enforcement looking for him and can't find him?

Kennedy's article is disappointing in its lack of specificity and backup. "Leading independent scientists have accused CDC of concealing the clear link..." What "leading independent scientists?" Should mention a few names. Additionally, aren't there other studies independent of Thorsen, his group & partner that also support the same conclusions? If so, how does this Thorsen & his partner's issues impact the other studies?

I don't have an axe to grind one way or another, but I'd expect a bit more clarity and relevant documented info from an article written by Kennedy for a general audience with some critical thinking skills. Hard for me to tell if Kennedy is himself cherry picking info or not.
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Sugarcoated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-10 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
15. I think this is important for people to see
Kick
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-10 01:14 AM
Response to Original message
16. urgh
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-10 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
17. The Government LIED?
Preposterous. :sarcasm:
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Sugarcoated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-10 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #17
26. And some people wonder why authority is questioned.
Come on.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #26
47. I wonder why it is not questioned;
including the assumption of "authority" itself.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-10 04:49 AM
Response to Original message
19. This is very significant
The integrity of researchers is a baseline condition. It's rarely questioned because the charge
is so devastating.

However, this guy is over the top. He's an outright crook who grabbed the cash and absconded.
It says worlds about his research. I'll bet it's rigged.

How truly sad but at least he's exposed.

k*r
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Sugarcoated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-10 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
20. Kick
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-10 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
21. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-10 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
23. LOL
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Sugarcoated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-10 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. LOL
back . . . I guess
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-10 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
27. LOL. Leave it to HuffPo to jump on the anti vax bandwagon. Doesn't change Wakefield being exposed
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Sugarcoated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-10 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Some maybe
Some just want to get to the truth. Most people, myself included, aren't ani "vax", but just saying let's look more closely at this, maybe not give so many vaccinations at once to newborns.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-10 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. "Some just want to get to the truth."
Right, but not the people who think there's a connection between autism and vaccines.
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Sugarcoated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-10 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. I see your point.
Believing there's a definite connection is premature, but now, in light of this story, so is the definite conclusion that there is none.

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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-10 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #36
45. It's been proven that there is no connectino.
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laundry_queen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-10 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #30
44. I'm just going to ditto your post. eom
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-10 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
29. Meh...
HuffPoo still blithely clinging to the the fictional link between vaccines and autism.

Unrec, not that it'll make a difference with the Jenny McCarthy set.

Sid
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Sugarcoated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-10 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. I do believe it's too late to unrec.
Just saying.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-10 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. Unrecc'd in spirit, if not actual fact...nt
Sid
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Sugarcoated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-10 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Did you just use the word spirit?
Edited on Wed Mar-17-10 02:04 PM by Sugarcoated
:P

Can't resist.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-10 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
32. Kick!
:kick:
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nemo137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-10 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
34. And this changes the overwhelming majority of the research
which shows no link between vaccines and autism.
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semillama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-10 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
38. Once again, RFK, Jr, drops a steaming turd of ignorance
To think I once admired the man.

Orac explains why RFK, Jr. is basically lying out his ass:

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/03/thorsen_wakef...

"As one of my readers pointed out, trying to argue that because Thorsen may have fled with stolen money is akin to arguing that if the fourth co-author of one of Einstein's papers describing the Theory of Relativity ran off with $2 million it would somehow invalidate the Theory of Relativity. Maybe J.B. Handley, No Longer a Journalist, RFK Jr., or Not a Doctor Not a Scientist can help me out here. Was there an allegation against Poul Thorsen of actual scientific--rather than financial--fraud of which I wasn't aware? Was there an allegation that somehow this alleged financial fraud had anything whatsoever to do with the design or excecution of Danish studies that failed to find a link between either MMR or thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism? Is there any evidence anywhere that Poul Thorsen committed scientific misconduct on the order of what Andrew Wakefield did? Seriously. I don't see anything in any of the number of vicious attacks on Poul Thorsen (who may or may not be a criminal), the SSI (which doesn't deserve them), or Aarhus University in Denmark (which also doesn't deserve them). It's a pure smear against these latter two institutions, guilt by association.

In other words, it's very typical of the anti-vaccine movement. The bottom line is that this is not a scientific scandal. It is a financial scandal that happens to involve a scientist.

Here's the other thing to remember. Even if RFK, Jr., Mark Blaxill, J.B. Handley, Dan Olmsted, and the rest of the merry band of anti-vaccine loons currently attacking these institutions were completely correct and the Danish studies were actually hopelessly tainted by Thorsen's alleged criminality--even if both studies were completely expunged from the medical literature--it would not change the scientific conclusion that neither MMR nor thimerosal-containing vaccines. That's because of a little pesky thing known as reproducibility. The Danish studies are not the only studies exonerating thimerosal as a cause of autism. There are Canadian, U.K., and U.S. studies whose results are concordant with those of Madsen et al."
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-10 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #38
46. In this whole thread, yours is the post I would recommend
:thumbsup:
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #38
48. Looks like he forged docs, held simultaneous full time positions
broke agreements and rules, and may have stolen the money. Also, it's suspicious that the CDC hid it's knowledge of this while the debate was going on. I've been around long enough to know; where there's smoke, there's usually fire.
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semillama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #48
50. And even if true, this addresses any of the science how, exactly? n/t
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. Well, I'm just thinking of the word "yet"
It's understood that this does not refute the science. You're 100% correct of course. And it's understood that smoke usually implies fire as well. Maybe we'll see, but I'm not holding my breath that big pharma will allow a real investigation.
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #38
49. +1000
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-10 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #38
51. Exactly, thank you!
I, too, as a long-time admirer of the Kennedys, am very disappointed in RFK, Jr. "Merry band of anti-vaccine loons"-that about sums it up!
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