Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

"We Suck" is not a particularly good rallying cry, fellow DUers

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 02:22 AM
Original message
"We Suck" is not a particularly good rallying cry, fellow DUers
I'm not feeling the inspiration, ya know?

How do you think that we should go about changing that attitude?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 02:26 AM
Response to Original message
1. Depends on who sucks.
:o
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bicoastal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
2. You saying I gotta bad attitude?
Cram it, ugly. x(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wardoc Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 02:28 AM
Response to Original message
3. The attitude will change when the guys we voted for start honoring their campaign pledges.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Better Today Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Bingo!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Indeed. The people want real leadership and representation. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Northerner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. +1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. Totally on point. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #3
21. really? Which ones?
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/

96 of them have been kept and yet progressives are still crying 96 tears.

It's a mysterian bound to raise question marks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeolH-kzx4c
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 02:30 AM
Response to Original message
5. Read the HCR bill......
and discuss the good things in it.....

revel in it passing,
and move on to financial reforms and Immigration.
I think we can make real progress here,
if we stop fighting each other,
and stop buying what some are selling!


Section 2718 - Some call it the "Golden Bullet" - Do you know what it means? If not, read here!

From the Senate Bill:

Section 2718 "BRINGING DOWN THE COST OF HEALTH CARE COVERAGE".

‘‘(1) REQUIREMENT TO PROVIDE VALUE FOR PREMIUM PAYMENTS.—
‘‘(A) REQUIREMENT.—Beginning not later than January 1, 2011, a health insurance issuer offering group or individual health insurance coverage (including a grandfathered health plan) shall, with respect to each plan year, provide an annual rebate to each enrollee under such coverage, on a pro rata basis, if the ratio of the amount of premium revenue expended by the issuer on costs described in paragraphs (1) and (2) of subsection (a) to the total amount of premium revenue (excluding Federal and State taxes and licensing or regulatory fees and after accounting for payments or receipts for risk adjustment, risk corridors, and reinsurance under sections 1341, 1342, and 1343 of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act) for the plan year (except as provided in subparagraph (B)(ii)), is less than—
‘‘(i) with respect to a health insurance issuer offering coverage in the large group market, 85 percent, or such higher percentage as a State may by regulation determine; or
‘‘(ii) with respect to a health insurance issuer offering coverage in the small group market or in the individual market, 80 percent, or such higher percentage as a State may by regulation determine, except that the Secretary may adjust such percentage with respect to a State if the Secretary determines that the application of such 80 percent may destabilize the individual market in such State.


What it means:

The language is convulted but the result is simple,
insurance companies can no longer make money by ensuring people who don't make claims.


Under the current business model of private insurers the goal is to recruit insurees who in all likelhood won't make claims, while denying those who are certain to either because of pre-existing conditions or simply by falling sick. The bill directly outlaws those practices but under 2718 they wouldn't have the desired effect anyway. Take the hypothetical case where your entire risk pool is made up of healthy young adults whose claims are mostly limited to broken bones from skiing or biking accidents. Under 2718 unless those claims across the risk pool don't add up to 80% or 85% depending the insurer has to rebate the extra premium. At the extreme the company would have to rebate the entire premium and so go out of business having no revenue to even pay employees. Under the new model the only ways to increase profits are one, to compete on the basis of volume, or two to reduce administrative costs, which is a 180 from the current model of hastling claimants into dropping coverage or simply finding excuses to rescind coverage.

Similarly 2718 limits or eliminates the utility of simply raising premiums because it would require a parallel increase of provider payments on an 85 to 15 ratio, otherwise the rebate provision would trigger. And while collusion between provider and insurer can't be excluded the benefits would flow more than 5 to 1 to the provider while the price differential with other plans falls entirely on the insurer. The same effect occurs by eliminating a category of coverage, even if you didn't fall afoul of the Acceptable Benefits Package requirements once again you risk triggering the rebate provision.

The words are not used in the bill but the result is nearly automatic cost controls. And enforcement is relatively easy, most of the information needed to calculate MLR is readily available in SEC filings and IRS returns, you don't need HHS auditors rummaging around in the records, the SEC, the FBI and the IRS are already on the job.

This language is not in the House Bill, at least not with the same effect, and we can expect that insurance companies will start working on the usual suspects to kill the bill on final (the language is still in the bill as of 3/13/10). Which in my mind is reason to just get this bill signed to nail 2718 into law.

Because on its own it has many of the same benefits on the overall system that the Public Option was supposed to deliver.
http://www.angrybearblog.com/2009/12/medical-loss-ratio-revisited-cost-and.html

You can go to the article link and read the comments, as that might answer some of your questions
in reference to loopholes ect.....

The author also has the last comment on that blog:

"For those of us who believe that given an open playing field a Public Option can out compete for-profit insures this provision is the Golden Bullet to ultimately kill the Beast that keeps 50 million people uninsured at a societal cost far greater than that of other developed countries.

At times I worried about pointing this out lest opponents of health care reform focus on killing it, but figured that AHIP was all over it anyhow. And indeed they seem to have watered it down to nothingness over the summer only to have it come back to life. There was some reporting that their early elation about getting the individual mandate through without the PO was tempered when they found out this had crept back in the bill and gotten past the Conservadems. Which in my view is the strongest reason for the Democrats to swallow hard, pass this version of the bill before Nelson and Lieberman get instructions to find some new pretext to kill the bill. Take the money and run."



------------------------------

There is also the "State Single Payer provision" - Sec. 1332. inserted in by Sen. Sanders:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x221649

------------------------------

as well as the large funding for Community Clinics....
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/edcut/508742/sanders_strengthens_senate_health_bill
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 03:01 AM
Response to Original message
8. It's not a rallying cry, it's truth and it sucks just as we do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Speak for yourself!
Please!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 03:50 AM
Response to Original message
11. Maybe we should, you know. Stop sucking.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 03:54 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. +1^ n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. Not bad
Not bad at all
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 04:01 AM
Response to Original message
13. I'm over "inspiration". I would like to see some results, personally.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TomCADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 04:03 AM
Response to Original message
14. Not All DUers Are Democrats...
Edited on Sun Mar-14-10 04:06 AM by TomCADem
I was having a "discussion" with a fellow DUers in a thread where he repeatedly referred to President Obama's administration as a bunch of facists, which really is not much different from the stuff being spread by Tea Baggers and such, and another poster broadly insisting that Democrats were dishonest.

When the talking points are the same as the right wing, perhaps you really are having a discussion with a member of the right wing.

Unless of course, right is the new left, and Fox News is the new progressive media.

Ironically, those who support Democrats are called "cheerleaders." My response? Damn straight. This is a partisan website. Of course, I am supporting Democrats. If I was attacking them, I'd go to Free Republic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 04:47 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. Ding. Ding. Ding. An acquaintance, rabid repub, claims to post here all the time.
Hard as I've tried, I can't identify him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 04:14 AM
Response to Original message
16. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
TomCADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 04:32 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. How about rallying...
Comprehensive health care reform expanding health care to over 30 million, plus protection against being dropped for pre-existing conditions, and subsidies for health care coverage?

How about pulling out of Iraq as promised? Remember McCain's proposed 2013 drawdown date?

How about stimulus money being used to save thousands of public school teacher jobs? Would you prefer a GOP tax cut only approach?

How about saving the U.S. auto industry, and preventing the collapse of the financial sector, which would have lead to Great Depression II?

How about the most transparent Presidential adminstration ever through Recovery.gov. Has any Presidential administration been more agressive in promoting transparency?

How about barring torture?

How about appointing Sotomayor, rather than justices like Alito and Roberts?

The distortions in that post are just amazing. Again, are you just conveniently ignoring all of the above? Or, do you have an agenda?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChicagoSuz219 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 05:12 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. Where have you been all my life?
Finally... someone else sees what the majority doesn't.

Having said that, I think it's about time we all stop fighting with each other & start supporting the President. He's not the villain in this Opera...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 05:21 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. I told a friend tonight that I don't think that it's Obama who has let us down
I think it's the opposite. I think that we let HIM down.

Where were we when the Tea Baggers had their hissy fits?

Where were the avalanches of letters demanding emails Single Payer, or at the very least, a public option?

Where where the liberal marches on Washington?

Some thought that just getting Bush out of office was the end and it would just fall in to place. But what it was was the beginning.

And It was clear from the very beginning that Obama needed us to back him up.

Instead, we're just sitting around whining about how much we suck.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChicagoSuz219 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. I've always had his back...
'cause I KNOW he's got ours.

He was my Senator so maybe I'm a little more used to his style. He keeps his eye on the prize... then gets it. Whoever said "Obama's playing chess & everyone else is playing checkers" got it right on the money.

We've just got to keep the faith a little longer...

I just saw this posted on another blog. It might interest you:

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=letting_go_of_the_public_option

Have a great Sunday!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 04:45 AM
Response to Original message
18. Correct, MrS.
One of the first steps in changing a society's behavior is to change what it views as 'acceptable.' (An example, after using words such as 'kike' and 'nigger' became felt as unacceptable, our society's behavior toward the groups changed, positively.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 05:04 AM
Response to Original message
20. "What do you mean 'we', white man?"
The Naderites have always been very reluctant to be considered part of the 'we'.

Maybe they read too much Zamyatin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_(novel)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 05:09 AM
Response to Original message
22. Amen, MrScorpio. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gleaner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 06:15 AM
Response to Original message
25. We could say...
they suck, or it sucks instead. Implies that something outside ourselves sucks and not us. I like it much better.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 06:54 AM
Response to Original message
26. Well....I'm a loyal Dem, but I have to admit, WE SUCK!!!!! That's
who we are. That's what we do. Every time we get a chance to lead, we fail to do so. Without fail. It can be counted on. I don't know why. I just know that it is what it is. WE SUCK! :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
28. Even tea partiers are smarter than many progressives when it comes to getting things done
or supporting the lesser of two evils
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. Amen. When I agreed above that, we suck, I wasn't just talking about
the politicians.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
29. I don't suck
Our politicians are certainly lacking in ethics, morality, and an adherence to their oaths of office though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. The truth sucks. That's not my fault. But I do have the courage to face it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
31. We don't suck..
... the jackasses we elected do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
32. so we should just blindly follow - you're actually advocating that?
DoublePlusGood guy?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
33. Neither is "Not as bad".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
34. By changing the players in Washington.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
36. OK: We create a partial vacuum?
:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat Apr 20th 2024, 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC