Do you believe the Republicans can be against the health-care reform bill in public while secretly

[Uncle Joe]

Poll question: Do you believe the Republicans can be against the health-care reform bill in public while secretly

hoping it passes?

[bigwillq]

1. Sure.

Because I'm told repeatedly that Obama supports gay marriage even though he doesn't have the guts to support it in public.

[salguine]

2. awww, SNAP!

[liberal N proud]

3. It is a political stunt

The ends justify the means.
Winning in November and 2012 is all they are about.

[FrenchieCat]

4. no.

[Uncle Joe]

5. From a political standpoint, do you see this bill as being perfect?

[FrenchieCat]

31. no.

But I believe that it is good enough....for now!

[geckosfeet]

6. the republics showed their hand today when bROwnIE said that the Obministration

has wasted a year on health care while they should have been doing something to help repair the economy and help people find jobs.

[Sebastian Doyle]

7. With this corporate enabling clusterfuck? Absolutely!

It's the "Brer Rabbit" scenario. "Oh don't throw us in that corporate mandated insurance briar patch".

[Uncle Joe]

12. I see three major political advantages to the Republicans on this.

1. The Republicans are the most corporate supremacist party and this mandate to a for profit industry; tremendously benefits their natural constituency; which happens to be held in extremely low esteem by the American People. So the Republicans get to have their cake and eat it too.

2. Any tax on health care benefits, will count as a two fold negative against the Democrats and particularly the President, specifically Obama campaigned on the premise that McCain would be the first person to tax health care benefits running his rear view mirror commercial with both McCain and Bush the Least citing this as being more of the same, this is directly opposed to "change you can believe in," not to mention it will be a *direct assault on the President's credibility.

3. The second way a tax on health care benefits will hurt will be in it's portrayal as a back door tax on those people making less than 200-250k.

* If anyone believes these reversals won't be used against the President by the Republicans and the corporate media, they need only research how many times Bush the Lesser's pledge of "Read my lips, no new taxes." was played on the airwaves.

I have no doubt when the Republicans come back to power, a bad - mediocre law will be made worse with more benefits to corporations and more cost to the people.

[cali]

16. codswallop. it becomes evident that you haven't informed

yourself on this legislation if you think that. yes, it's got lots of suck to it, but the increase in oversight re insurance companies is significant. big insurance much prefers the wild west current status.

[anonymous171]

8. They win either way. It's a shit bill that will just make the common American's life harder.

The GOP will run on that angst.

[Posteritatis]

9. It's difficult to overstate how much conservatives and libertarians fear civilized health care

It's almost a litmus test at this point; if a self-described conservative in the states is in favor of health reform it's enough to make me wonder how conservative they really are.

[ThomWV]

10. I have to hold enough faith in humanity to think at least a few actually want what is best

even if they have sold their souls.

[customerserviceguy]

11. Your poll doesn't cover two different circumstances

One, the Repukes might be happy to have HCR, which they can then manipulate around their own way at a future date. Two, they simply want to see it pass (without their votes) so they can use it as a club in November.

I said yes, and for point number two.

[Uncle Joe]

13. I refer you to post #12.

Peace.

[420inTN]

14. "The" Republicans? No. Individual Republicans? maybe n/t

[Uncle Joe]

18. Are most Republicans; for privatization and believing that government isn't the answer?

[420inTN]

20. Of all the Republicans and Conservatives with whom I work, 0 are for this bill. n/t

[Uncle Joe]

21. Are you speaking of political leaders; Congresspeople or everyday Republicans?

[420inTN]

35. Coworkers and friends. n/t

[cali]

15. the result of this poll brilliantly illustrates the dearth of critical thinking here

[laughingliberal]

17. There is absolutely no down side for the Republicans in this situation

If the bill passes, their beloved private for profit 'free market' health care system is enshrined as our national policy and as soon as they regain power they can work on 'fixing' the parts they could do without-scaling back the subsidies and pushing more of the cost onto the working class, increasing the excise tax to further encourage companies to scale back benefits. This is a great bill for them to build on. And they can run against the hated bill in November.

If it doesn't pass they can pound on the Democrats for wasting our time debating this for a year and attempting a government takeover of health care.

I only see one hope for us to turn this to our advantage and it's not likely to happen. That hope is if the House and Senate find the courage to put a Public Option in the bill and pass it. It gives us that foundation to build on we keep hearing about but which is missing from the current legislation. And it would be popular and they can run against it all they want but it would fall on deaf ears. What part of the support for the mandate goes from around 30% to over 60% if the public option is included are our Democratic leaders not getting?

[Marr]

19. Oh, of course. They've got the best of both worlds here.

The Democratic "leadership" is willing to fall on it's own sword to further enrich the insurance industry. And they can push this corporate legislation without any Republican support. All the Republicans have to do is say, "no, no, no", all the while, assured that the thing is going to pass and that people will be angry about it.

[Raine]

30. EXACTLY and the voters will be angry

about it. The rethugs will hang it around the Democrat's neck in the next couple of elections and beat them with it.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

22. NO

What evidence of this top secret *strategy* does anybody have anyway?

I've heard this idea proffered by a lot of people here at DU during the course of this entire debate but I have yet to see any evidence that the Republicans really are pursuing this kind of "Brer Rabbit" strategy and, considering the media in this country, I would be very surprised that SOMEBODY hasn't stumbled across SOME kind of evidence that this is the Republican strategy- to *allow* the Democrats to pass HCR but look like they are trying everything they can to block it (which they have been for nearly a year now).

I know, of course, that the Republicans would like nothing more than to have something with which to beat the Democrats over the head with in the November elections but for this little bit of "Kabuki Theater" to actually work, the Republicans have to be 100% correct in their assumptions that:

A. HCR is as universally unpopular as they say it is
B. A majority of the public will place them in power with the expectation that they will repeal HCR so that we can go back to the status quo and/or adopt their *plan* (if it can really be called that):eyes:

If they run on and gain power by blasting HCR and promising to repeal it and they don't do that (supposedly because they and their insurance lobby cronies love it so much), I hope that they've thought ahead (unlikely) about what they will do to keep from getting themselves screwed over in the next election once it becomes apparent to such a HCR-hostile public that the Republicans wanted HCR to pass all along. :eyes:

Fortunately for us, I don't believe either one of these assumptions are totally accurate nor do I believe that there will be the kind of hue and cry over HCR or the mandate provision necessary to generate a massive tidal wave of support for the Republicans OR for repeal of HCR. So, IF this is indeed the Republican's strategy for winning in November (and beyond?), it's not a very smart nor realistic one IMHO. :eyes:

[Uncle Joe]

24. This HCR bill

doesn't need to be "universally unpopular" to serve Republican political purposes.

It will be most assuredly unpopular with the average Republican, and it just has to be unpopular with a sizable percentage of Independents and Democrats. I believe from outside polls and reaction to it here, this bill has a strong chance of doing both.

Even should the Republicans gain politically whether increased minority or majority in 2010, the Democrats should still retain enough Congressional seats to prevent Republican attempts to repeal, thereby whether intentional or not giving the Republicans in power a fig leaf cover, just as a minority of Republicans in Congress have served to give corporatist Democrats cover.

However 2012 will be a watershed, because this bill as presented specifically hammers the President on credibility issues.

Furthermore I have no doubt, the corporate media will play the Republicans in the finest possible light while trashing the Democrats regardless of actual Republican success in attempts to repeal.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

25. The question is: will it be unpopular enough for the Republicans to ride to victory to begin with?

A lot of the opposition to HCR, at least among Republicans and indies, has arguably been because of the Republican lies and smears about HCR and/or the process being considered to achieve it (though their arguments about process don't seem to be getting a lot of traction as of yet) but once people have a chance to actually see the good things that HCR does FOR them (or don't see the bad things that the Republicans say it will do TO them), I believe that people will be less likely to support the Republicans whom have consistently been on record for the past half century as OPPOSING HCR. Despite what many people think of the current HCR legislation, nearly everybody believes that SOMETHING needs to be done in regards to health care/insurance reform and being disappointed in the current legislation will serve as an impetus for greater reform NOT a desire to return to the status quo and certainly NOT for adopting the Republican's truly suck-a** "plan".
There is only one direction that we the public wants to see HCR go and it is certainly NOT towards keeping it status quo (or near-status quo) and there is currently only one political party pushing the issue. We may all differ on exactly we think is the best way forward but nobody disagrees at least on the principle that SOMETHING must be done- even if it isn't "perfect" in the short-term. The Republicans will NOT be able to benefit politically in the long-term on this issue if the Democrats manage to pass HCR legislation. It is, in fact, THEIR "Waterloo" and they know it.

[Uncle Joe]

26. I agree, the public wants to see HCR go forward but I believe

this bill will cement and reward the primary villains behind our dysfunctional 37th ranked status quo health care system in to the process.

The mandates aren't Republican lies or smears, they will become fact, the same can be said for taxing health care benefits; something of which Candidate Obama said McCain would do in his rear view mirror McCain/Bush being the same campaign commercial.

The general public has a short term memory about circumstances especially with a corporate media so willing to make sure they do forget.

Social Security and Medicare have come under increasing attack by the Republicans and their corporate media propaganda machine with pie charts not even reflecting the out-sized % of the national budget spent on defense.

I believe the only reason, they've lasted as long as they have is because they're non-profit government run programs extremely popular with the general public, even if some of public is too clueless to know Medicare is a government run program.

For profit health insurance corporations have no such standing in public esteem, logical and moral basis for their existence. I believe the mandating of purchasing their profit based product without a strong public option, can only serve as a long term political anchor around the Democratic Party.

As for perfection that was Medicare for everyone from the cradle to the grave, something even the Constitution alludes to long before Medicare came in to existence.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

32. Well, we'll see who prevails over whom in a short while

While I reckon that most people have a pretty negative opinion of insurance companies, there's obviously not enough people beating down the doors of Congress demanding single-payer and/or a public option be instituted right this minute (unfortunately). As I posted on another thread, it is my opinion that insurance companies, once they are given the RESPONSIBILITY of covering everybody REGARDLESS of pre-existing conditions, will be under TREMENDOUS pressure from consumers to shape up or face extinction. If they can't do what they need to do and/or persist in their greedy and recklessly immoral business practices, that will only provide even more impetus for government to step in further at a later date. Using the Vietnam War draft, which affected a lot of young Americans during that time, as an analogy, the more people whom are personally affected by something, the more likely they are to speak out against its negative elements. If insurance companies, DON'T clean up their act, there will be hordes of angry citizens out on the streets demanding more government regulations and/or involvement in health care. As for the mandates, I think that the point has been made repeatedly that there is no way to ensure universal health coverage without a mandate and this would be true if we were in the process of converting to a single payer system. Yeah, I know that you're probably upset that a mandate/tax would be fine if there was a PO or single payer system. Well, it looks like neither of these things are in the cards right now but having a mandate (with subsidies to help pay for coverage) will at least help introduce the concept of everybody paying for health insurance- so that once people ARE ready (and they will undoubtedly be at some point) to accept a single payer government system, everybody will already be used to being required to pay for their health insurance coverage.

[Ozymanithrax]

23. That is called reverse psychology. If progressives think they are for it we will oppose the bill.

:sarcasm:

[sendero]

27. Of course they hope..

.. it passes. They will then say "we did everything we could to stop it" and reap the rewards in Nov.

[yurbud]

28. just the ones who have or hope to have medicare benefits someday

[The Gunslinger]

29. no doubt

This is a right wing pro corporate bill. They get to help their backers and mobilize their base for thee November elections at the some time.

[AnOhioan]

33. Yes...because they know if it passes, their chances for 2010...

and 2012 just got a whole lot better.

[gleaner]

34. No I don't think so ...

They have set out from the beginning to torpedo health care reform. They have said so repeatedly in public, and their private actions bear out what they are saying.

It was a mistake to consult them in the first place. They didn't get the voter mandate, the Democrats did. Obama and his White House staff threw the mandate away. The Republicans have rejected every concession they were offered, even when the concessions were what they asked for. Their motivation is clearly to destroy here not to pass anything.