Use GOOGLE at Your Own Risk - 25 Surprising Things...

[Indi Guy]

"...What’s on your PC: If you’re using Google Desktop, Google knows everything that you keep on your computer.
Your research paper, bills, upcoming blog post, etc.: Docs and Spreadsheets are great web-based office tools, but using them means exposing the information in your documents to Google."

There's allot more behind the friendly logo than you may know

Check it out -- http://www.criminaljusticeusa.com/blog/2009/25-surprising-things-that-google-knows-about-you


on edit -- please respond only after taking in the implications here.

[LoZoccolo]

1. I use Yauba a lot now.

I still have the habit of typing in Google's link when I want something though.

[Chulanowa]

2. Everything on that list...

Is either outlined in the EULA before you install any google program into your machine, or is something that every search engine you'll ever find has in common.

[Indi Guy]

3. Show me...

???

[NYC Liberal]

6. Here:

First off, "If you’re using Google Desktop, Google knows everything that you keep on your computer" is not true.
http://desktop.google.com/mac/privacypolicy.html

The Google Desktop application indexes and stores versions of your files and other computer activity, such as email, chats, and web history. These versions may also be mixed with your Web search results to produce results pages for you that integrate relevant content from your computer and information from the Web. Your computer's content is not sent to Google without your explicit permission.

If you cancel your Google Account or uninstall Google Desktop, the files indexed in the Search Across Computers feature will no longer be accessible through Google Desktop and may remain on our servers for up to 10 days before being deleted.

http://www.google.com/google-d-s/privacy.html

Content. Google Docs stores, processes and maintains your files (as well as previous versions of your files), sharing lists, and other data related to your account in order to provide the service to you

http://www.google.com/privacypolicy.html

When you use Google services, we make good faith efforts to provide you with access to your personal information and either to correct this data if it is inaccurate or to delete such data at your request if it is not otherwise required to be retained by law or for legitimate business purposes.

[Indi Guy]

8. Do You Have Any Sources Other Than "Google" to Defend Google...

???

[NYC Liberal]

9. I am simply posting what they themselves disclose,

since you'd said to "Show me" in response to "Everything on that list...Is either outlined in the EULA before you install any google program into your machine, or is something that every search engine you'll ever find has in common."

They do make their privacy terms pretty clear. If it's been proven that they are violating them, many people would be interested.

[Indi Guy]

13. I get where you're coming from & I believe you're an honest seeker of truth...

Ask yourself this -- If the US can wage illegal wars in the Mideast with impunity, how can GOOGLE practices be successfully investigated, let alone prosecuted as "illegal"?

???

[ProgressiveProfessor]

28. First there would have to be laws against it, and there are not

Even in the EU which is pretty serious about privacy. The other thing to consider is that law enforcement is also after the same data so they will do nothing to prevent someone else they can go to from collecting it. The government and commercial interests are clearly aligned on this.

[Chulanowa]

38. .

[EFerrari]

4. The funny thing is how secretive Google is.

There was a documentary floating around LinkTV on the topic for a while. Yes, they are a one way street for sure.

[Echo In Light]

33. +1

[ProgressiveProfessor]

5. None of that is new to an informed consumer

EULAs etc cover all of that. Common sense should fill in any holes. Use any net service at your own risk.

There are ways around it...besides the obvious one of not having an account or using their tools. Private browsing and erasing cookies regularly with a privacy tool also do the trick.

[ConsAreLiars]

7. We agree on this, but how many are "informed consumers."

I would guess around 1% -- not sure what you would guess. You would likely say that if they are not informed that is their fault and imply that therefore they deserve to get raped and robbed.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

11. A M$ executive recently suggested an Internet Drivers License of some sort

There are days I agree with him due to the sheer stupidity that I see online. Heard a recent radio story about Tweeting where you are and since you post enough personal information there and on Facebook, you end up on a burglar's to do list. Whose fault is that?

At some point adults have to take responsibility for their own decisions. Not sure how to protect those who chose not to protect themselves. Europe has a pretty serious privacy expectation, but that is not the case in the US. I also do not trust data aggregators to do the right thing, even if their motto is "Don't do Evil". In the end, it is up to the individual. Larry Ellison was right when he said there is no real privacy in the world today. The information about the risks is out there, perhaps more people need to spread the word.

I do take some personal action to counter some of this. These kinds of topics come up in some of the classes I teach. Some of the students at the lower levels are astounded by some of this. It opens their eyes quite widely. I also have taught computer literacy for adults over the years. I have an entire section on practicing safe software. I used to use a mouse in a condom as a visual aid, but got too many complaints. You get the idea.

Like politics I think the best course is to talk to/educate those around you, and then encourage those to do the same.

[ConsAreLiars]

14. Well, we can agree, at least a bit.

Very few have any idea that they are being tracked. As for the predictable 'whose responsibility?' it is the usual argument. Should those being victimized be told it is their fault or should the predators be chained up. You, like your co-ideologists, blame the victims.

But good for you for informing the prey on defensive measures.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

19. Its not ideology its practicality

The predators are too numerous to control, particularly preemptively. There is also the law enforcement angle. ISPs in Europe (where privacy and protection are fetishes) were just recently relieved of the requirement to archive all customer activity data for up to six months for law enforcement. Something very few knew about. (Note that US law enforcement is after the same thing). The EU also did nothing about net apps, Google's or others. Its clear that between the cops and the robbers there is really no innate protection possible except that one does for ones self. That is not blaming the victim, that is being realistic.

The good news is that the tools are out there and not a great deal of knowledge is needed to use them. The solution to ignorance is education...and I educate early and often. What have you done about the issue?

[ConsAreLiars]

22. Got evidence? Well show it! That's pretty close to saying the gov't shouldn't go after rapists

and predators because they are too numerous. Your values revealed.

Care to share the tools you believe will protect the average user from this raping?

edit typo)

[ProgressiveProfessor]

26. Not even close, but I will play along...

To stick with your rape analogy, there is in theory good guys who will try to help prevent such things from happening. What you fail to understand is that there are no good guys when it comes to privacy. Both the cops and the rapists are after as much data as they can get and there are no structural protections in place nor will there be in the foreseeable future. So to whom would you turn under those circumstances where the government is no better than the marauders?

Some things to consider:
EU has done nothing about Google or other net services providers.
EU requirements struck down is covered at /., but the national laws remain
US law requirements are in place, discussed here: http://www.cybertelecom.org/security/records.htm and many other places
Botnets (I include them in the predators, perhaps you do not) are illegal and remain uncontrolled
Spammers are everywhere, and the I-CAN-SPAM act is worthless
Viruses and Keystroke loggers are plentiful and there is no significant penalty for deploying them
Banks in the UK and elsewhere are moving to all electronic transactions with no cash transactions for consumers

Its not a values issue...its that there is no protection except that which one does independently. I am not saying its right, I am saying its reality.

Basic Protections include:
- Control what you publish/post/email
- Social networks are for suckers
- Use encryption (256 bit or better if you are serious about it)
- Good virus protection
- Limit accounts and use of web based services.

More Serious:
Encrypt your computer and media
Take the battery out of your cell phone when not in use
Only use open wireless nodes (for as long as they are available)
Use multiple removable wireless cards (different MAC addresses)
Linux vice M$ or Apple to limit exploits

Note that there is no technical magic toolkit for this. Security is as much behaviors as it it technical.

There are more possible steps...but at some point there is a hassle vs convenience balance that needs to be struck. It is possible to seriously inconvenience the government and commercial aggregators, it just depends on now hard you want to work at it.

[Indi Guy]

12. Thank You...

Many of us simply & uunderstandably (verb) "GOOGLE" ...without knowing that the most popular global search engine retrieves the most personal data.

[ConsAreLiars]

18. Almost the most.

Google is widely used enough to amass extraordinary amounts of data.

If they wanted to build a list of those who seek cooking, pets, porn, dieting, diabetes, gun shops and DU or FR, who live in your city, or any combination imaginable, that data is already stored and accessible Beyond that, there is cluster analysis software that can just scan and correlate every connection and reveal 'affinity groups' and ID their members. Those who visit/seek Aryan Militias or New Age and crystal shops. Of course, while being aware of what Google does with its traffic for money, don't forget that the NSA covers ALL traffic with far more analytic power.

[ConsAreLiars]

10. Even if you just use the search engine your actions are recorded and stored. One way around that

is using Firefox as your browser (works on Linux, Mac and M$ OS's) and installing the Search Add-On Scroogle SSL. It basically answer's Google's response to an inquiry with their ID instead of yours and then sends you the results, and deletes its own records daily instead of keeping them forever.

[Indi Guy]

15. Great Info. Let me ask you...

Since GOOGLE is a paying sponsor of DU, how is the content here not compromised?

[Alias Dictus Tyrant]

17. The content isn't compromised but you aren't anonymous.

People that think they are anonymous on the 'net don't understand the nature of what is possible.

[Indi Guy]

21. How Can GOOGLE Sponsor DU And Not Have Access to DUers...

???

[ProgressiveProfessor]

29. The ad server will have your IP

That is useful in and of itself in a number of different ways

[Alias Dictus Tyrant]

16. This only protects against relatively naive trackers.

More advanced tracking uses methods that are far more clever than any normal person will be able to defend against. There is no practical defense against more sophisticated methods that are already employed. I live my life as though it was under constant surveillance. Not because I want to, but because I am intimately acquainted with what is possible.

[ConsAreLiars]

20. That's quite true.

It should protect against being added to Google's database (the SSL part seems to make that extremely likely), But you are right. Big Brother is far bigger than Google and is not watching through a camera on the TV but through your net connection via whatever device you use. All that is available to those who want it and have the resources to locate and get it. Hackers locate the gullible. The NSA locates everyone.

[Indi Guy]

23. What is possible becomes what happens, sooner or later...

...more often sooner - given that resources are behind "what is possible"...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

27. At a practical level its unavoidable though some can be prevented.

Sort of depends on how important it is to the individual. There are only so many hard points that can be tracked and today any of them can be gotten around at one level or another. However the hassle factor tends to get overwhelming. Security through obscurity doesn't work nearly as well today with the data retention and algorithms now available. It will only get worse over time

[ProgressiveProfessor]

24. That is far from complete protection

Scroogle is a limited anonymizing proxy. Its good as far as it goes, providing of course it lives to its stated promises in terms of record keeping and is not under a covert order to keep those logs (AKA National Security Letter). If all you are concerned about is Google search retention and identification, its probably good enough. Even with it, aggregate stats are still captured (content of queries, topics etc) and can not be avoided.

http://www.cybertelecom.org/security/records.htm has some interesting data. Not sure how current it is, since some of this changes almost daily. It details other law enforcement based activities and desires.

When you truly understand the scope of the issue, self help is the only help a user can really rely on.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[trof]

37. I've been using Scroogle for some time.

[elocs]

30. Personally, I don't care. Others feel free to do whatever you like.

It ranks pretty low on the list of the zillions of things I am constantly warned about here.

Oh, and I'm responding even though I did not take in the implications. Such is life on a message board.

[CTD]

31. Nothing surprising or illegal

How do you think Google makes money? (And they make A LOT of it)

They make it selling your information. They keep track of all of your searches, they electronically read the content of your Gmail, and if you're foolish enough to invite Google onto your PC (using Desktop), they electronically read every file on your hard drive including your web surfing history, cookies and cached web pages.

It's their business model and anyone who has been paying any attention already knows it. It's perfectly legal as long as they disclose it to you - which is what those EULAs are all about. Just because most people click through without reading them doesn't mean Google has not disclosed to you (legally) what they are doing.

Which is why people who are concerned about Google violating their privacy don't use Google apps.

[GoCubsGo]

34. It's not much different than store loyalty cards

Yeah, they give you great discounts, but they also track your shopping habits. At least for that store.

[izzybeans]

32. Most of these google programs do no provide individualized datapoints.

I'm sure its traceable but Campaign monitor is more nefarious to me. It allows you to track which person via which email is clicking on what link you send them in a an e-blast campaign.

We use google analytics and feedburner to track numbers and get a sense of our geographic reach on our work blog. We also use campaign monitor to blast our customers with our blogs table of contents. I can tell our sales people who is clicking on which topic so that they can get a sense of what their interests are. Guess who gets called about topical products?

If you worry about some company tracking your behavior, its the companies sending you emails that you need to watch out for. Either that or only read your email in text so that the html can't be read by the crawler programs.

[seabeyond]

35. the less than bright thing is that people do things with puters they want to hide, expecting privacy

there is nothing i do with puter that isnt open to all and anyone with understanding be it hubby, kids, family friend and more has access to all i do with the thing

[agentS]

36. So google knows I use Chrome to read DU.

big frakkin deal. What are they gonna do, hire XE to shoot me?

Instead of spending time collecting my data. how about making Chrome work on https sites?! LET ME SPELL IT OUT FOR YOU, GOOGLE! YOUR BROWSER SUXS! FIX IT!

I hope they collect THAT data instead of my funny photo updates on Flakebook for a change...