OK...I will say it... Stop the damn wars and bring the guys home now!

[kentuck]

We are going broke and we cannot afford any more of these fabricated military adventures. We can cut the defense budget in half tomorrow and it will not make us less secure. The military-defense industry is sucking us dry. The "war on terror" is over. It has become the "war on the American people".

Politicians can't say it for fear of being called a "terrorist sympathizer". But, I can. And many Americans agree with me. Bring the troops home. Cut the shit out of these swindling defense contractors. And end these "wars"!

[KharmaTrain]

1. Interesting Perspective...

I'm with you...I want our wars for profit done now...bring the troops home as quickly and safely as possible. Here's hoping the elections in Iraq go well enough that those troops will be on their way real soon.

That said, I have a good friend who has two children...one is 20 the other 18...and both are opting to go into the military. The 20 year old tried to do the junior college thing and was working two part-time jobs (one which she lost). The 18 year old is a marginal C student and shows no interest in going to college. For both of them the military is an escape hatch...or a gateway (depending on their experiences) to some kind of future as compared with the vast wasteland that they face trying to fend in this depressed economy. How do you say they're doing the wrong thing? They're not out to kill A-rabs, just two kids looking for a break in this world and two parents who can't afford college tuitions.

[zeemike]

5. And so we are in a trap of our own making.

Because the MIC is so large it is too big to be stopped.
It is a wild beast devouring the world.

The answer?...starve the beast...starve them of 18 to 20 year olds....starve them of wealth.

[KharmaTrain]

7. Starve Them And We Starve

Damn problem with a monster this huge is that you can't starve it without the affects being felt most by those who aren't the CEO but the guy at the bottom...the factory worker who is glad to be working on the production line, sadly this is one of the few industries that hasn't totally off-shored. Thus starving the beast ends up starving more workers. The military is also a haven for those looking for an alternative to wage slave jobs with little future.

Defense is a necessary evil...and a controlable one. The problem has been finding a way to turn the corporations that rely on making profit from war and death to other ventures. Sadly, we live in a world where the profit trumps all else and death is and has been a cottage industry. Find a way to make bigger profits in plow shares and you'll win a Nobel Prize...

[zeemike]

16. And we starve because we have no land.

If you have land you will not starve....and an agrarian lifestyle is a healthy one.
Those 18 to 20 years old may not want to chose the military if they had a piece of land where they could provide for themselves.

Central to starving the beast is to return the military to it's original concept of conscripted soldiers and professional leadership.....a universal draft....no more all volunteer forces.

[KharmaTrain]

18. Interesting...

As one who was "of age" during the later years of Vietnam and missed being conscripted, I find that perspective interesting. Back "in the day" of the early and mid 70s the feeling was the draft was very unfair to the poorest as they couldn't find the deferments (like Cheney) or the money (like boooosh) to hide in a college. The concept of the all-volunteer, professional military was to make it a place where one wanted to serve not were required to. And IMHO until the boooshies got their grubbies on the military, it worked well. It was a model for peacetime...but not for the wars for profit we've had to endure over the past decade.

It'd be ideal for 18 to 20 year olds to have that "piece of land"...but right now there are few of any age who do. I don't see us going back to the farm any time soon.

[zeemike]

21. Deferments were the first step to a all volunteer army

It created inequities,for which they had a soluton...privatize the military.
IN WW2 there were no deferments to the fit, and every strata of our society was drafted.
And even as late as 1960 when I was in the service we served along side of the rich kids...the guy that bunked above me was the grandson of a very wealthy man...but he did his job just the same and was not treated any differently from the rest.

But we may have no choice but to go back to the land.

[Echo In Light]

8. +1 k/r

[kentuck]

9. What does ending the war have to do with your friend's children??

They can still join the military. They just don't have to go to Iraq or Afghanistan to have their bodies blown apart. I don't see your point as relevant.

[KharmaTrain]

10. Just Relating What I Heard...

There are those who want to shut down the military altogether...not just bring troops home, but somehow eliminate the entire military infrastructure. Of course it isn't realistic and for some right now it's become a refuge. It's a sad indication of our times that this is the case and in some ways these wars are keeping down the unemployed...or in the minds of those who want to prepetuate them, as justification.

[kentuck]

11. If we need a larger military...

then tax the wealthy to pay for it.

[KharmaTrain]

14. Amen On Many Fronts...

The wealthy have a long list they need to ante up on...starting with healthcare, education, infrastructure...

The shame is that even in "peacetime", the Military-Industrial complex is one of our leading revenue sources: funding and fueling wars around the world. Many of these transactions go with the blessings of our government. I'd like to see those sales taxed...put a high price on exporting death and use that money to pay for healthcare for all. We'd have a surplus.

Cheers...

[geckosfeet]

12. It has always been so. The poor serve the rich in the military. Fighting wars

or not, the poor end up serving in the military in exchange for the simple necessities of life. They also get training while they are in, and numerous benefits, including educational benefits once they are out. It's almost like a poor mans college except it take three times as long and you could get shot at.

edit for sp.

[KharmaTrain]

15. The Rich Aren't Feeling A Thing...

They're able to pay the 25gs a year or more for a 4-year college or shelter their kids in other ways. They got theirs and are oblivious to the rest of us.

There are benefits for those who want to serve...and more power to them. It's s shame when this become the "poor man's college" and one of the few ways to escape what is now a desolate economy and job situation. What's the alternative? Working at Home Depot?

[geckosfeet]

26. Home depot or any one of a number of struggling just surviving retail outlets.

Pretty soon those "opportunities" will be gone as well.

[MadHound]

2. Hear, hear,

But sadly we're not going to do that, too much money to be made for the few, and given that they're calling the shots, through this administration, we're going to be in this to the bitter end.

[DrDan]

3. +1

if the health insurer lobby does not break the country, the defense industry lobby will

[medeak]

4. bbbut..what about oil pipeline? n/t

[sandyj999]

6. Amen to that!

[galileoreloaded]

13. That is SOOO George Bush/2008............n/t

[latebloomer]

17. The greed and barbarism are indeed obscene

and the immense waste of our money- going into rich people's pockets , while our population cries out for basic services, boggles the mind. Our youth, as always, is just disposable cannon fodder.

All this BS about the threat of terrorism, while we make ourselves a target by our constant interventions, is just an excuse for the greed and the need to dominate the world's resources.

In this department, among others, Obama is sold out and is as bad as the rest.

[stray cat]

19. Ok - you said it......

[Orsino]

20. Why stop now?

Just when we're about to turn the corner in Afghanistan with that new strategy? Doesn't Iraq make the perfect staging area?

On to victory! GO USA!!!!1!

[tekisui]

22. Unfortunately, our Dem leaders think they need a tough-guy

PR campaign showing they can fight harder and better. We are sinking trillions bagging a few old bad guys who are half a world away and pose no threat to us.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. Congress stopped Nixon's lost war. It can do the same with Obama's.

Stop funding the FUBAR.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

24. You said it

I said it, a lot of us are saying it and have been for years. Preemptive wars are pointless and immoral regardless if your President has a (R) or a (D) behind their name.

[ensho]

25. agree, bring them home and close some of the TOO numerous bases

nt

[Kitty Herder]

30. Yes. I agree. nt

[L0oniX]

27. Stop joining the military! ...and when they start a draft, refuse to be inducted.

Stop supporting the troops. Stop cheer leading those that signing up. Support those that go AWOL.

[area51]

28. Agreed.

Stop the wars of choice, bring the soldiers home, and offer them training in health care professions, then begin a transition to single-payer health care.

[Mari333]

29. amen knr

[kgnu_fan]

31. Bring them home!!!!

[Subdivisions]

32. You're not getting it...these wars are about GREED! They ENRICH

elitists who could give a shit about us or our soldiers! You said "we cannot afford any more of these fabricated military adventures". Where do you think all that money is going? IT'S GOING INTO THEIR POCKETS! And, until such time as it takes to completely suck every last dollar out of citizens' pockets, the wars will continue. Until they have profitted off of every last barrel of oil, every last metric ton of poppies, and the cost of every life taken or affected, it will not end. That is unless we do something about it before then.

We are pawns and slaves in a giant corrupted corporate blood-thirsty and blood-soaked empire that WILL NOT STOP!