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Read My Lips: Britain is a Police State

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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 10:08 AM
Original message
Read My Lips: Britain is a Police State
Read My Lips: Britain is a Police State
http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2007/04/read_my_lips_br.h...

This "British Police State" theme we have going here at the Gadget Lab is starting to get genuinely scary. Now the Home Office in England are developing lip reading cameras. It's software based so theoretically could be applied to every one of the millions of cameras in Britain. From Sci Fi Tech:
Once it finds someone speaking certain key words or sentences, the system would automatically send an alert message to a central console, mobile phone, or other communications device. Police or security agents could then be dispatched to the scene to question the individual.
Feeling uncomfortable yet? Richard Harvey of University of East Anglia in Norwich, England has received a 391,814 grant to develop the system, which is based on existing speech recognition technology. Start counting, Brits. You have three years to get out.

Lip-Reading Technology Knows What You Said

Posted by Charlie Sorrel 9:31:09 AM in Security
Reddit It | Digg This | Add to del.icio.us
http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2007/04/read_my_lips_br.h...


:scared:
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irish.lambchop Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. Holy Smokes!!!
That's truly scary! Am forwarding this to friends there now.
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file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
59. Tell your friends to speak like a ventriloquist.
Kind of tough to read a ventriloquist's lips.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
2. And up next...
A camera that detects the Burberry check pattern and automatically issues an ASBO to the wearer.

Context for those outside of Britain:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4381140.stm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-social_behaviour_orde...
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
3. Facecrime. n/t
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
4. V for Vendetta and Brazil
Edited on Sat Apr-28-07 10:14 AM by burythehatchet
two films that offer a peek into England's future. Couldn't happen to nicer empire.

- a proud coolie

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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. don't forget "the former United States" n/t
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Oh but don't you want to be safe? These are for your protection...
we just have to spy on you like a person in prison to protect you, that's not that big of a deal is it? :sarcasm:
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. I know more than one person who thinks that way
"Let 'em! I got nothin' to hide!"

Apparently not between the ears, anyway..
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. "Apparently not between the ears, anyway.."
Now that's funny! :rofl:

I tried to propose a "Writ of Reasonable Suspicion" that would require the government to ask a magistrate to allow public surveillance only upon proof reasonable suspicion and only if particular people or places to be surveilled are described to the magistrate.

It didn't seem to go over well. I might do a poll on it and link to this article.
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dave_p Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
5. class war
... but try enforcing pedestrian priority at a designated crossing half a block from a UK school... no chance.

If they're on foot, they're expendable, I guess.
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
6. Oh come on, it's just surveillance of the public domain, how is this any different...
than a police officer doing surveillance? :sarcasm:

I'm not going to hold back.

If you really don't think this is a problem, YOU ARE A FUCKING IDIOT!!!!!

I cannot even believe people would be so stupid!

If you're actually stupid enough to think this type of overwhelming surveillance in public isn't a threat to democracy, then I don't think you'll ever get it.

And the same idiots want the same shit to happen in America.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
8. It is Heres my video Peek a Boo I see you soon to be I hear you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzOjsrjUwcE

Its an absolute police state

Diana was assasinated and Kelly was assasinated as well as others

its the ultimate test for the world
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
39. Nicely done video
Everyone should watch this. I also watched the clip for "Every Step You Take", which was linked there. And everyone should watch that, as well.

When are people going to get that just as our governments, especially BushInc., have been demanding more secrecy for themselves and their corporate friends, they have been pushing ever more surveillance of the common people. They try their damnedest to keep their crimes hidden. At the same time, they focus - quite literally - the lens on every aspect of our lives and work to criminalize anything we do that is in disagreement with them.

For you:
:applause:
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
47. Wow.
That video contains freeperesque levels of poor spelling.

Oh, and it's factually incorrect in many ways, which I'd bother to detail if you weren't arguing insane crap about Diana being murdered.

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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
10. orwell was right
he was just a few years off
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Mrs. Overall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
12. So, you could be standing on the sidewalk, telling a friend about the latest movie
Edited on Sat Apr-28-07 10:30 AM by paxmusa
you've seen in which there is murder, intrigue, assassination, and bombs and the camera reads your lips?
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Yes, and good ole Big Brother would come arrest your ass.
It's going to be a scary fate. At some point this is like living in a digital prison where you are surveilled in ways that prison inmates are, and it's all made possible by digital technology. What's really scary here is that even prison cameras I've heard of can't pick up audio. It's even worse.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
51. Now the camera can hear you and everything you say
so where is freedom of speech???

its a camera society
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live love laugh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
52. At least they request surveillance and it's on record though citizens may not know. n/t
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IronScorpio5 Donating Member (299 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #12
79. You ain't kidding.
scary shit.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
15. The UK is the testing ground for the US. I recall having a debate on DU
Edited on Sat Apr-28-07 10:36 AM by OmmmSweetOmmm
with a UK DUer, who thought nothing at all of being under such surveillance. In the UK there are 4 million cameras.

:banghead:
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Mrs. Overall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Are British phones wiretapped?
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. From Wikipedia
In 2002 the UK government announced plans to extend the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, so that at least 28 government departments would be given powers to browse citizens' web, email, telephone and fax records, without a warrant and without a subject's knowledge. Public and security authorities made a total of 440,000 requests to monitor people's phone and internet use
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TheBaldyMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #17
72. System X (the phone system) was developed for exactly this purpose
it allows someone sitting at a desk in the MI5 buildings to monitor any phone call made through a DTX. This is the system adopted by post-Communist Russia, it was favoured over competitors because it makes tapping phones as easy as entering someone's land-line phone number & clicking a mouse.

All international phone calls in or out of the UK are routinely monitored.

It's a legacy from the seventies when the PIRA were the biggest security threat.

The UK has a history of obsessive secrecy and paranoia in government. They hate being surveilled themselves, the latest attempt to water down the UK's FOIA tried to get MP's expenses made an exception to the Freedom of Information Act.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #15
28. yeah, the rest of the world doesn't really exist
We're all just a giant hologram where the US puppetmasters try shit out.

Lordy.

I recall having a debate on DU
with a UK DUer, who thought nothing at all of being under such surveillance.


Nah. That was a virtual DUer, created for your amusement. Obviously, no real person could think different thoughts about anything from what someone in the US thinks.

I recall having numerous debates on DU with US DUers who think nothing at all about living in a society that executes people and prevents people from marrying the partner of their choice, and where 47 million people have no health insurance coverage. Talk about mutant lab rats.

:banghead: indeed.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #28
37. Are you saying that we aren't becoming a surveillance society? nt
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #37
43. I thought what I was saying was pretty obvious
Edited on Sat Apr-28-07 01:00 PM by iverglas
"The UK is the testing ground for the US."

Not. The rest of the world has existence independent of the US, believe it or not.

On the other hand, we do tend to think that the US is the testing ground for us, when it comes to things like health care for profit ...

Different countries and societies and cultures may have different values and priorities and make different choices. Amazing, ain't it?


typo fixed
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
18. More: Crime fighting potential for computerised lip-reading
21/02/2007
http://comm.uea.ac.uk/press/release.asp?id=727
Crime fighting potential for computerised lip-reading
Researchers at the University of East Anglia are about to embark on an innovative new project to develop computer lip-reading systems that could be used for fighting crime.

The three-year project, which starts next month, will collect data for lip-reading and use it to create machines that automatically convert videos of lip-motions into text. It builds on work already carried out at UEA to develop state-of-the-art speech reading systems.

The university is teaming up with the Centre for Vision, Speech and Signal Processing at Surrey University, who have built accurate and reliable face and lip trackers, and the Home Office Scientific Development Branch, who want to investigate the feasibility of using the technology for crime fighting.

The team also hope to carry out computerised lip-reading of other languages.

While it is known that humans can and do lip-read, not much is known about exactly what visual information is needed for effective lip-reading. Human lip-reading can be unreliable, even using trained lip-readers.

Dr Richard Harvey, senior lecturer at UEAs School of Computing Sciences, is leading the project, which has been awarded 391,814 by the Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council.

We all lip read, for example in noisy situations like a bar or party, but even the performance of expert lip readers can be very poor, he said. It appears that the best lip-readers are the ones who learned to speak a language before they lost their hearing and who have been taught lip-reading intensively. It is a very desirable skill.

Dr Harvey added: The Home Office Scientific Development Branch is interested in anything that helps the police gather information about criminals or gather evidence.

As well as crime fighting there could be other potential uses for the technology, such as installing a camera in a mobile phone, or on the dash board for in-car speech recognition systems.

Another reason for developing computerised lip-reading is that the number of trained lip-readers is falling, mainly because people tend to be taught to sign instead.

Dr Harvey said: To be effective the systems must accurately track the head over a variety of poses, extract numbers, or features, that describe the lips and then learn what features correspond to what text.

To tackle the problem we will need to use information collected from audio speech. So this project will also investigate how to use the extensive information known about audio speech to recognise visual speech.

The work will be highly experimental. We hope to have produced a system that will demonstrate the ability to lip-read in more general situations than we have done so far.
http://comm.uea.ac.uk/press/release.asp?id=727
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
19. Off you go!! Proud to do that. Everyone
should read this.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
20. More: (HAL 9000 eavesdrops on astronauts Poole and Bowman)
Computerized Lip-Reading Crime Fighters
http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?...
A Computerized lip-reading system is now under development at the University of East Anglia. The three year project will collect data for lip-reading; engineers will then design hardware and software capable of converting videos of lip-motions directly into text.

Surrey University has already built accurate face and lip tracking devices at their Centre for Vision, Speech & Signal Processing. The computer lip-reading project will continue this work. The University of East Anglia has received a substantial $765,000 grant to complete the project.

Britain's Home Office Scientific Development Branch is also interested. It is hoped that videos of potential criminals could be analyzed and their comments recorded, even in circumstances where audio recording is impossible.

Dr. Richard Harvey, senior lecturer at UEA's School of Computing Sciences, is leading the project:

"To be effective the systems must accurately track the head over a variety of poses, extract numbers, or features, that describe the lips and then learn what features correspond to what text.
"To tackle the problem we will need to use information collected from audio speech. So this project will also investigate how to use the extensive information known about audio speech to recognise visual speech.

"The work will be highly experimental. We hope to have produced a system that will demonstrate the ability to lip-read in more general situations than we have done so far."
(From Crime Fighting Potential For Computerized Lip-reading)

Science fiction fans have seen this future before. In the film 2001:A Space Odyssey, the HAL 9000 computer was able to read lips.

(HAL 9000 eavesdrops on astronauts Poole and Bowman)
In the film, HAL's increasingly erratic behavior becomes a matter of concern for the astronauts. Since HAL can effectively monitor every part of the ship, the astronauts retire to a small pod to discuss the matter. Unfortunately, it turns out that somebody did research on computer lip-reading, and so HAL was on to them, with very unfortunate results for Poole.

It's interesting to note that scientists and engineers have been thinking for more than a generation about what it might take to do computerized lip-reading. A patent was issued to IBM in 1965 for a device consisting of an array of photocells that captured the reflected light emitted from the oral cavity region. This information, along with facial articulatory movements, would be essential in trying to enable Optical Automatic Speech Recognition.

Thanks to reader William Lengeman for pointing this item out; he also remarks that this system would dovetail neatly with the earlier article on Onboard Threat Detection System For Big Brother Airlines. See also an interesting 1992 NSF paper on Facial Expression Understanding. Scroll down for more stories in the same category. (Story submitted 2/23/2007)
http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?...



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Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #20
58. What language?
Edited on Sat Apr-28-07 03:52 PM by Dont_Bogart_the_Pret
I wonder what language it will lip-read. There are soo many different type of English(!), and what will happen when the "terrorist" of any of us decide to speak-in-a or learn a different tonge? :shrug:
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
21. SAFEE Onboard Threat Detection System For Big Brother Airlines
Onboard Threat Detection System For Big Brother Airlines
http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?...
An Onboard Threat Detection System is under development for the Paris-based Security of Aircraft In The Future European Environment (SAFEE) project. The intent is to provide pilots and cabin crew with an early warning of terrorist activities.

Here's how it would work. While you sat in your seat just before and during the flight, a tiny camera that would be virtually undetectable would focus on your face and upper body. Every facial expression and twitch would be scrutinized, as well as any suspicious body movements. On-board software would compare your behavior with known or theorized terrorist behavior.

A microphone would hear and record even the most lightly whispered remarks. Apparently, Islamic terrorists are known to whisper texts from the Koran just before going into action.

"We're trying to develop technologies that indicate the differences between normal passengers and those who may be a threat to others, or themselves," said Catherine Neary of BAE Systems. She also noted that all video, audio and other recordings would be destroyed at the end of every flight so passenger liberties were not infringed.

The development of this system is being carried out by British and German researchers; approximately $US50 million has been budgeted. BAE Systems already specializes in Deployable Surveillance Units that integrates a wide range of sensors (radar, EO/IR cameras and motion detectors). SAFEE is an integrated project with several dozen partners throughout the European Union.



(InFlight television screens)
If SAFEE engineers could just combine the little LCD displays already present in the seat backs on many planes with George Orwell's telescreen, we could perfectly monitor everyone.

And, if this system works in the air, it would work in other places where we are afraid of terrorists. For example, buses, trains, subways and other transit systems. Then, of course, there are the other terrorist targets, like nightclubs, restaurants and even cafes...

The Chestnut Tree was almost empty. A ray of sunlight slanting through a window fell on dusty table-tops. It was the lonely hour of fifteen. A tinny music trickled from the telescreens.
Winston sat in his usual corner, gazing into an empty glass. Now and again he glanced up at a vast face which eyed him from the opposite wall. BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU, the caption said.
(Read more about Orwell's telescreen)

Apple Computer has applied for a patent for a display screen that could also capture images; see Apple Apparently Working On Orwell's Telescreen. Read more about Watching you fly, Security of Aircraft in the Future European Environment and BAE Systems Deployable Surveillance Systems. Scroll down for more stories in the same category. (Story submitted 2/18/2007)
http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?...



:scared: :scared:
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #21
57. Means an Islamic white-knuckle flyer
could get him or herself into trouble.

I once saw a lady across from me on a plane make the sign of the cross at take-off.

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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
22. Big Brother Now Watching George Orwell's House
Big Brother Now Watching George Orwell's House
http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?...
&expandBig Brother, the ever-watchful leader in the novel 1984, has popped up all around George Orwell's former home in London.

If you haven't had your daily dose of irony yet, here it is. Within 200 yards of George Orwell's flat 27B overlooking Canonbury Square in Islington, North London, there are thirty-two CCTV (closed circuit television) cameras.

(1984 finally arrives in London)

Orwell's view of the tree-filled gardens outside the flat is under 24-hour surveillance from two cameras perched on traffic lights.
The flat's rear windows are constantly viewed from two more security cameras outside a conference centre in Canonbury Place.

I have to say, the Brits are going on a bit of a CCTV surveillance binge lately. Britain now has over 4.2 million cameras - that's one for every fourteen people. A typical citizen is caught on camera an average of 300 times per day.

Just like in 1984, watchers have the opportunity to talk to you anywhere you might be by attaching speakers to CCTV cameras - see Big Brother Would Like A Word With You. Some of them are even using children's voices to chide adults - see 'Baby' Brother Cams.

The next steps? There is a proposal on the table for a national standard for CCTV cameras; this would make it possible for all images gathered by individual cameras to be accessed by authorities.

Alistair Darling, transport secretary, has outlined a proposal to charge UK drivers in a "pay as you go" tax to pay for roads. In order to implement the plan, all cars would carry a device that would be tracked every minute by satellite. The UK already uses ANPR (Automatic Number Plate Recognition) cameras placed every 400 yards along major roadways to create a national vehicle movement database (see ANPR Cams - Britain's Roadside Big Brother).

Just to give you a little taste of the novel, here's a snippet on BB:


The black-moustachio'd face gazed down from every commanding corner. There was one on the house-front immediately opposite. BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU, the caption said, while the dark eyes looked deep into Winston's own... In the far distance a helicopter skimmed down between the roofs, hovered for an instant like a bluebottle, and darted away again with a curving flight. It was the police patrol, snooping into people's windows.
Read more at The Daily Mail. Scroll down for more stories in the same category. (Story submitted 4/14/2007)
http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?...

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Joe Fields Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
23. Next up: the thought police.
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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. We have them, they are called hate crimes and anti hate speech laws
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Joe Fields Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #29
42. WTF? You mean we actually have police who can read our minds and decipher
our thoughts, so that they can arrest us for what we may be thinking, but haven't acted on yet?

Please tell me when the government developed this new form of criminology. I missed it, and SURELY it must have been in all the papers!
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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. Hate crime legislation is thought crime legislation
Hate is different from intent or premeditation, and is the criminalization of thoughts and ideas
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Joe Fields Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. You are a little off base on that one, my friend.


The thoughts and ideas are put into action, and the intent is still there.

I'm talking about something totally different.
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Paladin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #46
69. That's Just Wrong

It's not hateful thoughts that are illegal; it's only when hateful thoughts are put into harmful, criminal action that the effect of the laws is activated.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
24. UK's Orwellian 'Baby' Brother Cams (child voices in cameras)
UK's Orwellian 'Baby' Brother Cams
http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?...
Last October, I wrote about the Orwellian CCTV camera and speaker systems that British bureaucrats are now using to identify and punish "bad behavior" (see Big Brother Would Like A Word With You).

If possible, it's getting worse. Apparently, police plan to use recordings of children's voices to chide passersby into a higher standard of behavior.

(Big Brother CCTV Cams and Child Voices)
Louise Casey, the government's "co-ordinator for respect", said in a statement this morning: "We are encouraging children to send this clear message to grown ups - act anti-socially and face the shame of being publicly embarrassed."

For those who remember reading George Orwell's 1984, this carries with it the chilling overtones of children who are encouraged to report their own parents to the secret police for questionable behavior.


'You're a traitor!' yelled the boy. 'You're a thought-criminal! You're a Eurasian spy! I'll shoot you, I'll vaporize you, I'll send you to the salt mines!'
Suddenly they were both leaping round him, shouting 'Traitor!' and 'Thought-criminal!' the little girl imitating her brother in every movement. It was somehow slightly frightening, like the gambolling of tiger cubs which will soon grow up into man-eaters...

With those children, he thought, that wretched woman must lead a life of terror. Another year, two years, and they would be watching her night and day for symptoms of unorthodoxy. Nearly all children nowadays were horrible. What was worst of all was that by means of such organizations as the Spies they were systematically turned into ungovernable little savages, and yet this produced in them no tendency whatever to rebel against the discipline of the Party. On the contrary, they adored the Party and everything connected with it. The songs, the processions, the banners, the hiking, the drilling with dummy rifles, the yelling of slogans, the worship of Big Brother--it was all a sort of glorious game to them. All their ferocity was turned outwards, against the enemies of the State, against foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals. It was almost normal for people over thirty to be frightened of their own children. And with good reason, for hardly a week passed in which 'The Times' did not carry a paragraph describing how some eavesdropping little sneak--'child hero' was the phrase generally used--had overheard some compromising remark and denounced its parents to the Thought Police.

Via Children to nag adults through CCTV. See also these recent surveillance-related stories. Scroll down for more stories in the same category. (Story submitted 4/10/2007)
http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?...



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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Children to nag adults through CCTV
Children to nag adults through CCTV
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2007/040407Ch...
Mark Ballard
The Register
Wednesday April 4, 2007

CCTV cameras will bark orders at people who misbehave in the streets of eight major British cities as part of a government scheme to cajole people into respecting authority.

Faceless bureaucrats will tell people off when they are being "anti-social" by dropping litter, behaving drunkenly, fighting, and, presumably, smashing up CCTV cameras and otherwise dismantling the apparatus of the nanny state.

But these bureaucrats will be voiceless too - CCTV operators taking part in the scheme will use recordings of children's voices to browbeat wayward adults.

Cameras will be fitted with loud-speakers, but it is doubtful they will be fitted with microphones so people can answer back.

Using recordings of children's voices will make it harder for those in opposition to the surveillance society to be defiant of the talking cameras. Moonies and rude gestures will most definitely be a no-no.

Children will be recruited from schools to take part in the 0.5m scheme and shown round CCTV operating rooms on school trips.

Louise Casey, the government's "co-ordinator for respect", said in a statement this morning: "We are encouraging children to send this clear message to grown ups - act anti-socially and face the shame of being publicly embarrassed."

Graeme Gerrard, chair of the CCTV Working Group of the Association of Chief Police Officers, said a Middlesborough trial of the scheme had been used for "dispersing intimidating groups loitering in shopping areas, parks and housing estates". He did not say where the youths went when they'd been moved on.

A Home Office statement on the matter said the government would use the "power of pestering" to teach people what was unacceptable behaviour.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2007/040407Ch...
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tenshi816 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #24
75. One day about a year ago
I was in the train station in my small Yorkshire town and saw the following graffiti on the wall (that hadn't been there the day before):



I'm guessing in was in response to an earlier announcement that CCTV stations were being installed in the station for security. An earlier plan to have further cameras installed at various points around town met with such a huge outcry that the town council, fearing for their jobs, quickly abandoned the plan.

Just because a certain technology (like lipreading cameras) is being invented doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to be accepted by the public or used everywhere. The British aren't as passively accepting as some DUers think.
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
25. Yep. And we're right behind them.
After spending a few years in a British art forum, I have discovered it's not the place I thought it was. I'm having a Gonzales moment about a post I saw. Someone was suggesting that the surveillance cameras have features such as being able to shoot. This was just after the Vermont uni. murders.

I think it started with programs like their ASBO (Anti-Social Behaviour Order). That's actually a new law. But it's the sentiment that has been around a long time.


To be honest, I predict trouble in this country as a result of the shift in wealth that the conservatives have forced. Big cities are going to see hopeless youths running around angrier than they are now. It's a no brainer. And instead of distributing hope, we'll do what we always do and punish the behavior. And that will only make things worse.


I think of things like this when I remember how we used to have those big scales for weighing yourself, on the streets. Those wouldn't last ten minutes these days. They'd be vandalized or outright stolen. Or how about fire alarms? Remember those? Not any more. Maybe in the largest of cities. But they were everywhere, until about the seventies.

Argh. It's time to go outside. They can't take the sun away.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. OMG!
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. They have come close: In Bolivia, through privatization, they were able to
claim ownership of the rain, and demand people pay the water company for any rain they collected. This didn't last overly long, the people rioted, some were killed, and the company left.

We should assume the company learned from this experience and the next attempts will be more successful!
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. Anti-Social Behaviour Order (wikipedia)
Anti-Social Behaviour Order
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-social_behaviour_orde...
In the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland<1> an Anti-Social Behaviour Order (acronym ASBO, pronounced az-bo) is a civil order made against a person who has been shown to have engaged in anti-social behaviour. In the United Kingdom, this is defined as "conduct which caused or was likely to cause alarm, harassment, or distress to one or more persons not of the same household as him or herself and where an ASBO is seen as necessary to protect relevant persons from further anti-social acts by the Defendant".<2> In England and Wales they are issued by Magistrates' Courts, and in Scotland by the Sheriff Courts. The UK government introduced ASBOs by the Crime and Disorder Act 1998. In the UK, a CRASBO is a "Criminally Related" ASBO. One local authority in the UK has published photos of those given ASBOs on an Internet site.<3>

History
ASBOs were first introduced in England and Wales by the Crime and Disorder Act 1998. Later legislation has strengthened its application: in England and Wales this has largely been via the Anti-Social Behaviour Act 2003, in Northern Ireland through an order in council. In Scotland, which has a separate criminal justice system, ASBOs were introduced for the first time in October 2004 by the Antisocial Behaviour etc. (Scotland) Act 2004.<4> Scotland, however, has an existing tribunal charged with dealing with children and young persons who offend, the Children's Hearings System.

In a press release of 28 October 2004, Tony Blair and David Blunkett announced further measures to extend the use and definition of ASBOs.<5> The remit would include:-

Extension of the Witness Protection Program in anti-social behaviour cases.
More courts dealing with cases.
More offences liable for Fixed Penalty Notices and giving parish councils the power to issue fixed penalty notices for infringements.
The press release concluded by remarking:

"In the past year around 100,000 cases of anti social behaviour have been dealt with. 2,633 ASBOs and 418 dispersal orders have been issued in the same period."
On 25 October 2005, Transport for London announced its intent to apply for a new law giving them the authority to issue orders against repeat fare dodgers, and increased fines.<6>

As of 31 March 2004, 2455 ASBOs had been issued in England and Wales. On 30 March 2006, the Home Office announced that 7,356 anti-social behaviour orders had been given out since 1999 in England and Wales.<7>

What Warrants an ASBO

Typical ASBOs
The type of evidence required to obtain is much wider than for criminal cases. Both hearsay evidence and anonymous testimony are admissible as evidence. In order to obtain an ASBO a 2 stage test must be satisfied by the applicant authority, see section 1(1) Crime and Disorder Act 1998. The first is that the Defendant has committed acts causing or likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress within 6 months of the date of issue of the summons and secondly that an order is necessary to protect relevant persons (persons in the local authority or police area) from further anti-social behaviour. The first part of the test requires proof to the criminal standard, i.e. beyond reasonable doubt but the second has no burden or standard or proof only that the court in its judgment or evaulation considers it to be necessary, see R (on th application of McCann and others) v Crown Court at Manchester 2003. An application for an ASBO is considered by the courts in its civil jurisdiction and is a civil order however breach of an ASBO is a criminal offence and result on conviction of up to 5 years imprisonment (2 if a minor). An ASBO may contain any prohibition even if the same is not an anti-social act, e.g. can include a prohibition in entering an area or speaking to named persons. Cases of orders have included:

Vandalism<8>
Theft<9>
Abusive behaviour<10>
Harassment<9>
Flyposting<11>
Organising illegal raves<12>
Begging<13>

Less common ASBOs
Less conventional uses of ASBOs include:-

Recently, a woman given an ASBO preventing her from jumping into rivers, canals or railways.<14> This is because the rescue services were placed at risk when rescuing her from these places whilst she was attempting suicide. Magistrates made her subject to an ASBO, which means that if she attempts suicide again she could be sent to prison.
Two teenage boys from east Manchester forbidden to wear one golf glove.<15>
A 13-year-old forbidden to use the word "grass".<15>
A 17-year-old forbidden to use his front door. <16>
An 87-year-old man ordered not to shout, swear or make "sarcastic remarks to neighbours or their visitors".<17>
In the centre of Manchester, a group of residents were calling for an ASBO against noisy builders on big construction sites.<18>
Children playing games in Grove Place Estate in Hampstead could receive ASBOs.<19>

Reception of ASBOs
A MORI opinion poll published on 9 June 2005 found that 82% of the British public were in favour of ASBOs, however only 39% believed they were effective in their current form.<20>

Some critics of the ASBO system argue that it criminalises behaviour that is otherwise lawful. Other parties have voiced concerns about the open-ended nature of ASBO penalties - that is, there is little restriction on what a court may impose as the terms of the ASBO, and little restriction on what can be designated as antisocial behaviour. Critics have reported that only around 3% of ASBO applications have been turned down.<21>


NACRO
NACRO has published two reports, the first claiming that ASBOs were a failure due to being costly and slow to obtain,<22> and the second criticising their use by the courts, saying that they are being used too hastily, before alternative remedies have been tried.<23>


TV & Media
Nine teenage girls from Manchester, many of whom have criminal convictions (including one with an ASBO) are the subject of the TV series ASBO Teen to Beauty Queen for Channel Five.
Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson refers to the Ford Focus ST as the Ford ASBO.
The Streets refers to ASBO in the song "Memento Mori" from their 2006 album The Hardest Way To Make An Easy Living.
The Holloways refer to Britain's youth as the 'ASBO generation' in their song 'Nothing For the Kids' off their debut album 'So This Is Great Britain'.
Arctic Monkeys' drummer Matt Helders had 'ASBO?' written on his bass drum during a performance on Saturday Night Live in 2006. The songs performed by Arctic Monkeys were I Bet You Look Good on the Dancefloor and A Certain Romance.

Republic of Ireland
ASBOs were introduced by Minister for Justice Michael McDowell on 1 January 2007.<1>


See also
Restraining order
Police state
Social justice
Fixed Penalty Notice
Lawburrows

Notes
^ a b Asbos come into force on Monday The Irish Times news report, 29 December 2006.
^ "s1(1) Crime and Disorder Act 1998", Office of Public Sector Information. URL accessed on 18 June 2006.
^ Warwickshire Police Media Portal - Images of ASBO and CRASBO Offenders Published On Warwickshire Police Website
^ "Antisocial Behaviour etc. (Scotland) Act 2004: Guidance on Antisocial Behaviour Orders", Scottish Executive. "Guidance on Antisocial Behaviour Orders: Antisocial Behaviour etc. (Scotland) Act 2004PDF (333 KiB)" URLs accessed on 18 June 2006.
^ "Press Briefing: 3.45pm Thursday 28 October 2004", 10 Downing Street. URL accessed on 18 June 2006.
^ "Plans for 50 fare-dodger fines, BBC News, 25 October 2005. URL accessed on 18 June 2006.
^ "Asbo total hits 7,356", The Register, 30 March 2006. URL accessed on 18 June 2006.
^ "How ASBOs have worked" CrimeReduction.gov.uk, September 06, 2006
^ a b "Asbo for youth who terrorised neighbours" Rochdale Observer, 16 March 2007, Helen Johnson
^ ASBO for abusive Rochester Square resident, Camden Council, 13 January 2005
^ "Top music chiefs are spared ASBOs" BBC News, 14 June 2004
^ "Man banned from organising raves" BBC News, 14 June 2006
^ "Cases of ASBOs used for general public order issues" Statewatch's ASBOWatch
^ "Suicide woman banned from rivers", BBC News, 25 February 2005. URL accessed on 18 June 2006.
^ a b Home Affairs - Written Evidence: 19. Memorandum submitted by Napo, House of Commons, 22 March 2005. URL accessed on 18 June 2006.
^ "Yob banned from his own front door", icWales. URL accessed on 02 September 2006.
^ "Anti-social OAP faces jail", BBC News, 22 July 2003. URL accessed on 18 June 2006.
^ Metro News page 1, 27 October 2006 Asbo plea for noisy builders
^ "Soccer kids threatened with ASBOs" London Evening Standard, April 13, 2007
^ "Public Concern About ASB And Support For ASBOs", MORI, 10 June 2005. URL accessed on 18 June 2006.
^ "A triumph of hearsay and hysteria" The Guardian, 5 April 2005
^ Failure of policy in tackling anti-social behaviour. Nacro (2002-11-12). Retrieved on 2007-01-03.
^ ASBOs oversold as the answer to antisocial behaviour. Nacro (2006-12-07). Retrieved on 2007-01-03.

References
HMSO.gov.uk - Crime and Disorder Act 1998 (introduced ASBOs), Office of Public Sector Information
HMSO.gov.uk - Anti-social Behaviour Act 2003, Office of Public Sector Information
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Social_Behaviour_Orde... "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-social_behaviour_orde...
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TheBaldyMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #33
74. You omit that most ASBOs are given to pensioners rather than 'youth'
they are a waste of paper.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
27. IR Chemical Communication Graffiti Tags Wanted By DARPA
IR Chemical Communication Graffiti Tags Wanted By DARPA
http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?...
The Chemical Communications (ChemComm) program objective is to encode and transmit information in a rapid and covert manner. DARPA is asking for proposals for a PDA-sized device that will quickly print out coded tags, with a specific message, for placement in strategic locations in different environments, to be read by unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) or planes. The tags will be used to mark locations of interest, identify friendly forces embedded or trapped in combatant zones, and in various surveillance and reconnaissance missions.

Specifically, DARPA wants these features:

Permits the user to input an arbitrary 60-character alphanumeric message;
Translates the message into an appropriate set of modulated chemistries;
Embeds these chemistries into a disposable substrate (the transmitter); and
Ejects the substrate for deployment.
DARPA suggests that oscillating chemical systems could form time-repetitive sequences of characters, or that a chemical shutter could generate a modulated optical signal from one static chemical function. However, any innovative approach that meets the goals of the proposal will be considered.

DARPA envisions the disposable transmitter having a "weight and form factor ranging from a sheet of paper to a piece of string, possibly with an adhesive backing for deployment on all surfaces."

The "substrate" or transmitter is thus a graffiti tag, but not like the ones that you see in alleys and on trains. DARPA prefers that the message be transmitted invisibly, using near infrared (NIR) or short-wave infrared (SWIR).

Science fiction writers could make several suggestions here. For one thing, you will want a strongly adhesive backing that would resist any efforts to remove it. In other words, a smart tag as described in All Tomorrow's Parties, a 1999 novel by William Gibson:

Someone had once come up with a smart tag, a sort of decal they'd somehow adhered to the wall, although had not been able to figure out how they'd done it without being seen. Maybe they'd shot it from a distance.
(Read more about the smart tag)
Smart tags were created in response to smart material, a special finish that would "eat" graffiti, which would be the expected enemy response to DARPA ChemComm tags:

The gang kids would come and tag it; twenty minutes later these flat, dark, vaguely crab-like patches of dark blue would come gliding out around the corner They seemed to be embedded, a few millimeters down into the surface, which was a sort of non-glossy gel-coat affair, but able to move around under there.
(Read more about smart material)
DARPA also does not specify what the transmitter, ideally a "sheet of paper," should look like. If it covers a surface that is visible to a UAV, a person might also be able to see it. The sheet should therefore look like it belonged there.

One approach would be to disguise it as anti-American graffiti or posters of local political figures. Graffiti in Baghdad was once punishable by death; now it is commonplace.

(Baghdad graffiti sample / typical poster)
However, in villages, Iraqi army soldiers and Multinational DivisionBaghdad patrols often paint over graffiti whenever they see it. You don't want your own troops painting over your expensive DARPA-produced ChemComm tags.

(Child paints over graffiti)
The other obvious thing to do is to make the tags invisible. They could be made of clear, non-reflective plastic, or the tags could actually be invisible. See Invisibility Cloaks Seen As Possible With Metamaterials and Invisibility Possible With Superlenses for details on progress in this area.

As with any DARPA proposal, the technologies are years away from being usable. However, if DARPA wants to get started right away with a quick, homebrew technology that already works, they should try making some LED Throwies.

(LED Throwie)
An LED Throwie is basically a light-emitting diode taped to a small circular battery, in turn taped to a small circular magnet. Change the standard instructions by using an infrared LED, then add a little IC that accepts your 60 character code and transmits it in the DARPA-approved manner, and presto! your chemical communications gear is ready and you can start tagging.

(LED Throwie enthusiasts tagging a building)
I also wonder whether or not DARPA is thinking far enough out of the box on this one. For example, why not have this robot painter actually create a composition on the roof or the wall, using chemical paints that provide the necessary signalling features?

Read more about the DARPA Chemical Communications (ChemComm) program. Take a look at these instructions for making an LED Throwie, as well as a movie demonstrating LED Throwie tossing technique. See science-fictional technologies come to life in this DARPA project list. Scroll down for more stories in the same category. (Story submitted 3/29/2007)
http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?...

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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. How to make a LED throwie.. (video)
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
34. Linking stillcool47's excellent thread on the Prison Industry of America
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Jonathan50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
35. Incarceration rates.. Per one hundred thousand population.
http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/y/world.htm


715____United States of America

142____United Kingdom: England & Wales


So, who is more free?


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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #35
81. Or
who is more compliant.
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Jonathan50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #81
86. Pissing in a cup to get or keep a job is a uniquely American behavior.
It happens in other countries, but hardly to the extent it does in "the land of the free".
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
36. Of course people will say they don't have a problem with this
NOW they don't. "Oh, I'm not a criminal, I'd never be a target of surveillance." And if you get nicked by mistake it's just your bad luck.

But think ahead. What if the government starts doing things you really don't like and decides it needs to crack down on dissent? Then where are you going to protest? Where will you talk about the corruption, the abuse of power, and what to do about it? In secret meetings under constant threat of arrest? How secure will you feel then?

Don't think it could happen? Just look to the USA where, in a matter of six years, people wrapped in the flag and insisting they're only using their powers for our "good" have managed to pervert democracy and justice, and alienate most of the world who see us for what we've become.

If it can happen here it can happen anywhere.
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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
38. "No one can terrorize a whole nation, unless we are all his accomplices."/ Edward R. Murrow
This is outrageous and disturbing. Prisons without bars. Where is the outrage in Britain? Is there any?
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
40. Yikes! Did the Home office in the UK watch "MINORITY REPORT" and took it to heart?
:scared: THAT is some scary shit! Lets just hope the technology isn't finished before the PSYCHO is out of office!
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WindRavenX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
41. Yup. And I'm staying the hell away from there.
I'm thinking Amsterdam is looking better and better by the day.
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wuushew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
44. Gobbelity gook
Edited on Sat Apr-28-07 01:13 PM by wuushew
technology will always create data at a rate much faster than the associated ability to process it.

Do you know how difficult it would be today to try to brute force crack the German enigma codes that are over sixty years old? Can't be realistically done without some idea of what the cypher key could be.

Not only would this new surveillance technology need to accurately describe what is verbally being said but software would need to be sufficiently good to filter the massive amount of inane non-sense that would be generated by such observation. How expensive would the storage be, how much money is available for installation and salaries of the necessarily human analysts?

After decades of research we are preciously little closer to human language recognition by software. That is with full benefit of the audio noises. We expect to leapfrog over the already formidable obstacles of audio language processing to visual determination of spoken language?

What if I am chewing tobacco, gum or have a lot of facial hair? The entire world of programming could work on the problem and be no closer in a thousand years. Information processing works only where the scope and nature of data can be specified and narrowed. Monitoring traffic and recording, license plates numbers etc. is a trivial task by comparison.

Why on Earth would would anyone want to invest in processing information when 99.9% of the information is innocuous junk? How many human analyst can a government afford to employee to interpret this information? Any competent auditor could easily point out that such a program is not cost effective for a given goal of improving security.
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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
45. I lived there 20 years ago for 6 months and made many visits...have
some relatives there. It was my dream come true and I often dreamed of living there.

HOWEVER.....I've been following all this for some time and my desire is much, much less. That, and the fact that the humidity would realy kill me now in terms of my respiratory system and asthma.

It ain't the same place it once was and it's really very depressing.....

It's going to become one big set for a huge PRISONER revival soon...
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. Fortunately...
...the government of this country is so incompetent as to be incapable of malicious use of their surveilance systems, because they don't even understand how they work.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. Oh Know this government is Malicous Big Brother Evil
just to do Big Brother it takes sneaky sly and intense propoganda and having the TRUST of the people to swallow the propoganda

but your right they are incompetent but they are malicous and would stand by and watch Americans die to see their agenda go forward

Oh the Patriot Act was evil and malicious and get ready Marshall law is coming they practiced this week

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPbL0DS_cvo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_deZ3dQU_4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrwE43YqtwY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouKd-OiMdw8
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. I'm sorry, I don't speak boobly boobly.
Once again, please, in English.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #54
60. Take off the tinfoil hat and get psychiatric help.
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #54
63. seriously, olanzapine works
please try it.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #54
66. Wow. Thanx lovuian. I luv the videos...
I don't think your crazy at all.

:hug:
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #66
71. Thanks JoAnne you ! You Rock !!!
It just rolls off my back and just make me do more

:rofl:

I knew Britain was in major trouble when family members who visited came back and told me about the massive amounts of cameras

Britain needs to do something about Global Warming rather than big brother cameras cause they are sicking from rising sea levels

Plus I saw the McDonald's Food lawsuit which went for years and years and then finally was overturned in the European Union courts

I think they want to make Europe like Britain but these people are well aware of Communism and Fascism

Tough cell there

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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
50. Don't worry too much; like everything the Home Office does, it almost certainly won't work!
Frankly, I don't think such a device *could* work effectively; human speech is too variable, both in sound and in content. Once there have been a few embarrassing episodes of a parent telling a child to sit on his bum, and the alarm being called because a machine interpreted it as 'bomb', the whole thing will be called off, with the taxpayers slightly the poorer.

Anyway, John Reid (our nutcase Home Secretary) will have gone within 3 years; and anyone else would have to be at least saner.



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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #50
56. Unless it has infrared capabilities...
...to see through hoodies, I doubt the home office would consider it useful. :eyes:
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Jcrowley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
53. Kick and Rec n/t
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
61. We'll have to become like the WWII Navajo: Use a language TPTB don't know.
Edited on Sat Apr-28-07 06:24 PM by WinkyDink
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #61
64. Either that or learn to read minds!
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #61
82. Pig Latin anyone? n/t
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #61
84. cronko sey tia barnok! n/t
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-28-07 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
62. I guess the terrorists won. They are tracking us at home so
they don't have to track them over there.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #62
65. Sometimes I think they're working together..
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conspirator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #65
67. If not working together, the elite is at least counting on a few
terrorist attacks to frighten and remove rights from people. Did the british authorities actually think that after invading Iraq and after the attacks in Spain the London underground wouldnt be targeted?
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TheBaldyMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
68. NEWSFLASH! Britain already is a Police State.
now for the good news, the British government seem completely at a loss when it comes to really big technology projects. They invariably don't work and overrun making it very late and far too expensive.

Leave? Not on your nelly, I'll be to busy mouthing obscenities and threats at the cameras (along with millions of other Britons). I believe the term is information overload.

The principle has already affected the notorious SOCPA law to stifle public protest within a mile of Parliament. People are encouraged to protest individually about pretty much anything you feel like - the sillier the better. The Metropolitan Police are overwhelmed with requests to protest anything from the price of cheese to the war in Iraq.

Hundreds of individual protesters all turn up on the same day.
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IronScorpio5 Donating Member (299 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
70.  Britain is a Fascist Police State.
they way they trat theyre minorities is disgusting.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #70
73. Yes, and Americans "trat" their minorities so much better.
Edited on Sun Apr-29-07 11:50 AM by yibbehobba
I did quite enjoy the article posted on here today about the Utah Republican party claiming that illegal immigrants are marxists under the influence of Satan.

On edit: How's the American prison industry doing these days?
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #70
76. 'they trat theyre minorities' Aah, my eyes hurt... lol j/k
Edited on Sun Apr-29-07 12:50 PM by themartyred
I will certainly send this link out to others...
oh, and here's a fun pic I made for the people pushing this kind of SHIT on the world! if you like right click it now, it'll be down tomorrow.


www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<<--- for top new 08 stickers & shirts
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IronScorpio5 Donating Member (299 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. Yeah...my typing sucks when I get up.....
but is doesn't change a thing.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #77
83. I agree! sorry, it's just the joking reaction I had
I realize people could be tired, ill, or disabled. forgive the impression I was mocking, I wasn't, just saying my eyes! :)
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Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
78. Thats not fair!
The women in Iran have to wear berka's so they can't be heard!
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #78
80. If they do this we'll all be wearing burkas!
:hi:
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
85. Well, they did come up with a time machine and Dr. Who.
What? The Brits can't make high-tech stuff too? See? The cops really won't need guns! Read my lips!
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
87. Time for V for Vendetta to become reality?
:scared:
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