Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

This is why I belive that conservative republicans emrace and tout the "Pro-life" position

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 09:04 PM
Original message
This is why I belive that conservative republicans emrace and tout the "Pro-life" position
Consider that you believe there should be no rules against against gun ownership and that includes big assault riffles. Consider that if you are not a hunter or a collector or a sport shooter but you need to have many guns around you, the bigger the better.

Consider that you believe in torture even though they might be innocent. Consider that you favor war and want "every Muslim killed". Consider that you don't care about the 1 million innocent civilians dead in Iraq and that you don't really care about our dead American solders enough to even question the war.

Consider that you believe in the death penalty even though you have heard that it has killed innocent people in the past.

You really sounds like a monster unless you add that you care about "innocent human life" by protecting unborn babies. It's a bubble you can wrap yourself around so you don't seem as violent. It assuages who you are. It is you telling yourself that you are really a good person because you at least care about unborn babies. You can't put a face on "unborn baby" so it makes it easier to care about them. You obviously don't care about them when they are born or you would support health care and eduction and every other thing that could help them. You are most certainly only "pro-birth" but you call yourself "pro-life" because it makes you seem less like the sociopath that you are.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. Most 'pro-life' people are just anti-women's choice
There are very, very rare exceptions where someone will claim to be pro-life and anti-death penalty, but for the most part the position of pro lifers comes down to pissyness that women can make their own choices.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. Yeah, it's largely about control
Most of these things have a large element of controlling others at their core.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MellowDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
27. Not at all...
the vast majority of really conservative pro-lifers don't even view the issue as a "choice". They don't really care about that aspect at all. It is all about when life begins, which for extreme conservatives is at conception, or even before the act of sex (hence no contraceptives). And then they view that life form the exact same way as an adult human, so they literally consider abortion to be murder.

If you try arguing with pro-lifers from the "choice" point of view they don't care. To them, no one gets a choice to murder another human being, because that is how they see it. So you will simply be talking past them and not addressing thier concerns, and I'm sure vice-versa.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OffWithTheirHeads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. So, according to you, if I like guns I am somehow anti abortion?
This does not even make sense. In fact, I'm stupid for even responding to this but I'm drunk and still awake! Silly me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Maybe you should read it again because I specifically excluded collectors
and sport shooters. If you have enough ammo in your house to blow up your city I'd say I have a right to think there may be something wrong with you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
yourout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. I prefer the term "Pro Birth" as after they are born they don't give a shit about life.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. "forced birth" is a more accurate statement of their position
Far as I can see, they are not really 'pro' anything. I agree with poster who said they just don't want women to have a choice. That is forced birth, not pro anything.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
4. Most the anti-choice politicians don't care one way or the other
but abortion is a great wedge issue to use so the serfs don't start talking about dangerous things like economics and how they're being screwed by the the very politicians they elected to "save the babies".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
5. Sanctity of life - we made the whole fuckin' thing up!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
6. Conservative politicians are no more anti- choice then Liberal ones are pro-choice
I have come to the conclusion that neither side wants to do anything to change the abortion or GBLT situations. Those issues are far to valuable a tool to draw voters. They play on fears and passions at every election, yet you notice, neither one, even when in power, makes any real moves to make the changes their supporters want/expect.

Actions speak louder then words.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
8. Conservative Republicans Oppose Abortion
because they believe a fetus is a child. They see the little hands and feet and believe this is a living person who should not be deliberately killed. They do not take into account the fact that until x number of weeks there is not sufficient brain function to define a human being.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. They don't seem to care about that little baby when it is out of the womb
and sick.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. They Do Care About It
they just don't believe everything should be run by the government.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. But if it not run by the government many of of them will die. Children in hospitals
Edited on Wed Feb-17-10 10:17 PM by Maraya1969
without insurance have a 40% more chance of dying than children with health insurance.

That statistic right there should top any and all beliefs on what a government is responsible for or not. We take care of the children and you swallow your stupid conservative pride.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
prayin4rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. They believe that what a woman does with her body
should be controlled by the government but the protection, aid and welfare of a living breathing child should not be run by the government.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. They Believe That It's a Child
And it if were a child, the government should control it like it does in the third trimester.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. What about after the last trimester? Are you saying they are just "Pro-birth"?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 03:42 AM
Response to Reply #15
30. No they DO NOT care
bullshit right wing crap
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Listen, "Jax,"
Let me explain something to you:

Unlike some posters, I have a regular job as well as outside responsibilities. I also make it a point to avoid useless flame wars, especially the exchange of one-liners. Getting into a substantial discussion on this topic requires more thought, time, and tact than I've had since 11:49PM yesterday.

The entirety of your post was " No they DO NOT care bullshit right wing crap" (sic). You followed that up with a private message that said: >these forums are for LIBERALS and PROGRESSIVES. >>Answer my posts non liberal and non progressive. >>Coward much

I joined DU in February 2001, have given over $1,000 to this site, have over 18,000 posts, and have knocked on doors and donated to Kerry and Obama. In nine years, I have never been called out like that, especially for a one-line post that took you about ten seconds to write, and didnt contain anything of substance worth responding to.

If you want to know why I took the trouble to express an opinion like that on DU, knowing how unpopular it would be, the reason is this: To put it bluntly, the OP and the others who agreed with her are talking trash about my mother. As a health educator, her opinion is that fetuses are babies and as a result is very strongly anti-abortion. And rather than throwing infants to the wolves, she worked for years at a very low wages trying to help young mothers provide better care for their newborns.

And she is not unique. I don't agree with her about abortion or her other politics, but the depiction of social conservatives in the OP was ridiculous. It has as much relation to reality as the right-wing charge that Democrats want to institute a Stalinist state. Moreover, I knew lots of people in those circles years ago, and *no one* fit the idiotic cartoonish stereotype presented on this thread.

As far as being non-Democratic: It is you who is not representing the party. Forgetting Dennis Kucinich's anti-abortion sentiments for a minute -- Obama, Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and every major party leader agrees that conservatives see the world through a different lens and have to be educated. Howard Dean famously reached out to voters with "Confederate flags and gun racks in their pickup trucks." Noam Chomsky, for Christ's sake, wrote an editorial recently about how right-wing protesters had legitimate grievances but were confused about the causes.

Nothing good can come from misplaced outbursts against ignorant stereotypes. It is bad for the party and bad for any number of liberal causes.

And what is particularly unfortunate about discussing abortion is ignoring the heart of the issue that the other side is bringing up. Look, I understand why people feel that there's a disconnect between social conservative positions on abortion and other political policies. The OP raised a legitimate question in a way worthy of discussion.

There are very good answers as to why abortion should be legal, at least up to the point that a fetus becomes a child. (That was basically the Supreme Courts logic, although the standard they set is a little puzzling to me.) What is not helpful is to demonize the opponent and change the subject. The way to deal with the slogan its a child, not a choice is not to start talking about "choice" or insisting they have to support certain government social programs, however worthy you and I feel those programs might be. To win the argument and gain the high moral ground, at some point you have to argue that the fetus being aborted has not yet become a human being.

I frankly can't understand why liberals won't address this head on. Planned Parenthood has a concise, cogent argument on the subject, but its hidden way down in their website where no ones going to see it.

In debating terms, part of a compelling argument is showing how a reasonable person can disagree. Another part is giving your opponent enough credit to debate the issue on their terms, not only yours. Its one reason the whole issue is so volatile and both sides so implacable. In posting that comment, I was just trying to insert some perspective and personal experience in the midst of all the piling on and moral masturbation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. Bullshit. Conservative Republicans worship money and power.
They don't give a flying fuck about "the fetus". They see the fetus as a way to manipulate their uneducated and easily controlled worshippers to keep the money flowing and keep the power in their hands.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Conservative Republicans are Confused About a Lot of Things
but your view of the world is just as warped.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #20
31. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
The Gunslinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
9. To them
it is just a way to create hate for the left and get votes. They will never do anything about it. I mean how would they get their mistresses taken care of if there were no abortions. I personally know more republicans involved in a decision to abort than Democrats.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
12. Good points
But you forgot sex. Those people usually think sex is a nasty thing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. You mean they "say" sex is nasty. What they do is a whole different matter.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gemini Cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Actually they think sex is nasty for others but not for them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
21. I think many do because it requires NOTHING from them, and
allows them the illusion that they truly care about the well being of others, particularly others who are seen as vulnerable.

I've noticed that many of the hot-button issues that are used to rally many "conservatives" are issues that require little or no sacrifice or effort on the part of the supporters, other than telling other people what they cannot do, and claiming that the actions they stand against are somehow 'threatening' to them and to society.

It seems to me that there are many 'liberals' who support causes which they don't stand to personally benefit from, and which often involve a ...'burden'? .. 'sacrifice' ? in terms of taxes, action, or cooperation and do so willingly for the good of others and society at large.

There is also the "innocence" factor- some see a fetus as "innocent" but a new-born is 'someone else's responsibility' and no longer an easy 'ephemeral' cause to champion. I think some people DO "put a face" on a fetus, and when the newborn shows up, with it's own individual personhood- crying, needy, and fragile, they loose the allure.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. Great points
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
23. I have a similar theory with regard to some people who call themselves "Christians."
Edited on Wed Feb-17-10 11:23 PM by pnwmom
They don't want to lift up the poor, reach out to people in prison, take care of the sick or do anything else that would actually require a sacrifice (or higher taxes). So they decide that the key part to being a good Christian is to be straight (which the vast majority of people happen to be) and not to have an abortion (which men can't have anyway and most women can avoid using birth control). How convenient for them!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. More good points.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wise Child Donating Member (132 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 02:00 AM
Response to Original message
28. If you are a Fundie,
chances are you started off "Pro-Life", then anti-Gay Rights by extension, then possibly some sort of moral panic wild card from time to time. Then by Reagan's second term, you got fed up with the Democrats blocking Supreme Court appointments and the vilification of good Christian hero Ollie North, - then you firmly self-identify with being a "Conservative", something you might not necessarily did before 1980.

All that deregulation, environmental skepticism, anti-universal health care beliefs comes with the territory - you believe what they tell you, because you really can't move because "Democrats have gotten 'too Liberal'". It starts with being against abortion, then after some time, you drag all the other issues in tow, because you have no other choice. You might even appropriate that nonsense slogan from the power suit wearing cokehead Republican "I'm to the Right of Attila the Hun" because, I suppose that takes you as far away as you can from those icky Liberals. I missed that Sunday School lesson about deregulation, but I do remember the one against materialism and greed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 03:21 AM
Response to Original message
29. It's a lot of things. I agree with some of the OP's point, but I think the pols
embraced it because it is an effortless way of getting votes from the right, as is being against burning the American flag (George Bush the First did this ).
It is simply lazy cheap politics for them.

The fundies think god hates America because we "allow the killing of babies", and that it is proof of some totalitarisn left plot to end American freedom, etc, etc, etc....

It seems to be one position witn many uses and backers. I believe few of the supporters are really sincere.

As a leftist gun nut, I am not in agreement with all of your idea, but I do understand what you are saying.

Rec.

mark
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
33. "Pro-life" is all about controlling women. It has hardly anything to do with life. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon Jul 14th 2014, 04:35 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC