Clinton warns Iran not to 'build their bomb'

[Forkboy]

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has said the US would welcome peaceful engagement with Iran but not "while they are building their bomb".

She spoke at the US-Islamic World forum in Qatar during a trip to rally Arab support for tougher sanctions against Iran over its nuclear programme.

She said the West was "encouraging Iran to reconsider its dangerous policy decisions."

The three-day Gulf tour will include her first trip to Saudi Arabia.

The Obama administration is stepping up pressure on Iran by launching a diplomatic offensive in the Gulf.

Iran says its nuclear programme is to generate electricity so it can export more of its valuable oil and gas, but the West suspects it of trying to develop atomic weapons.

"The evidence is accumulating that that's exactly what they are trying to do," Mrs Clinton said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8514772.stm

I hate to make editorial comments, but when we were all kids how many times did the "Do as I say, not as I do" thing really work on you?

Of course, she's also right in some ways, imo. There's no doubt Iran wants the bomb. It's always been Might Makes Right in this world, and power is the only thing that gets international respect, no matter what flowery words get spoken elsewhere. Suddenly no one invades you, and you're finally old enough to sit at the adult table on Thanksgiving.

No good answers except hunker down.

[Don Caballero]

1. This will not end well

Iran will flaunt their weapons to the International community and force Israel to destroy their production plants. We must stand with Israel in their regional fight against extremists whose main goal is their destruction.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. Nah.

Fuck that.

[Webster Green]

3. Yeah, fuck that!

Israel is cruel beyond belief. They need to clean up their own fucking act. I do not support Israel.

[Don Caballero]

5. How can you not support Israel?

Have you forgotten what happened in Europe? We must always support Israel.

[MyNameGoesHere]

6. No. you must. I do not support

any oppressive regime that essentially commits guilt sanctioned genocide.

[Webster Green]

7. Bullshit!

It would seem that the Israelis have forgotten what happened in Europe.

Their cruel occupation and oppression of the Palestinians amounts to genocide.

Reading about the actions of Israel makes me physically ill. They are brutal fucking assholes.

[Don Caballero]

10. The Palestinians were nomads before the state of Israel was set up

They refuse to recognize the sovereignty of Israel and refuse to abide by her laws. If they would they would receive full rights outside the territories of Judea and Samaria. Those who place sole blame on Israel are either naive of full on anti-Semites.

[Webster Green]

15. Call me whatever you want.

I detest what they are doing to those poor people.

[Rebubula]

40. Both sides...

...have a lot of blood on their hands.

The Palestinians are pawns for other Arab nations that have attacked Israel many times in the past.

Blaming all the problems in that area solely on Israel is willful ignorance.

[Webster Green]

43. I would be lobbing rockets at them if I lived in the occupation zone.

Watching homes and crops destroyed, supplies cut off.....genocide.

I won't support the actions of Israel anymore than I support the actions of the U.S.

[MUAD_DIB]

22. And here's the anti-Semite card being played folks.

Love Israel or you hate the Jews.


What utter horseshit.


Edit: spelling.

[Don Caballero]

25. You may not admit it, but the reason people hate Israel is that they hate Jews

Of course they try to play the "Oh Israel is so bad to the Palestinians" or "I like Jews, but I hate Zionism." So thinly veiled and utterly vile.

[MUAD_DIB]

26. And of course you would be...

WRONG!

Criticism of Israeli policy towards the Palestinians is no different than past criticism of the apartheid regime of South Africa.



Keep on beating that dead horse if you may. It doesn't work.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Webster Green]

32. Boo fuckin' hoo.

You are so full of shit, it's pouring out of your ears.

The occupation is what is truly vile, not those who don't support it.

What a fucking idiot!

[Forkboy]

37. Copout answer # 731

I have no love for the government in Israel. I have no problems with Jewish people. Much like America....

Next cowardly, unthinking response? I got time....

[MUAD_DIB]

21. We must support Israel as they build prison camps out of Gaza?

As their settlers take more of Palestinian land?


No. I supported Israel, but will not do it any longer...not until they realize that they should let the Palestinians have their own homeland.

[Forkboy]

11. I hope you're not planning on your charisma alone swaying people..

...because the argument itself is pretty weak, by any standard. You may well be right...why not take the time to tell people why? Surely it wouldn't take you but a few minutes more of your time than this answer did. I personally have no idea how things in the region will go down over the next decade, so I'd love to hear what an expert such as yourself thinks. Don't hide your intelligence so good all the time, share with us dummies. :shrug:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

38. What's the magic word?

[Forkboy]

42. Grow up?

:shrug:

I'm not going to beg you to be mature. My reply was pretty straightforward. If you can't handle that minus the ass kissing that's your problem.

[Forkboy]

35. Nothing?

I keep giving you the benefit of the doubt. I honestly think you're an intelligent person, but whenever someone confronts you with the prospect of a real conversation you seem to run. Are you that much better than us? As snarky as my answer was above, I'm serious in that I have no answers and I'm open to all points of view. I honestly will listen to yours if you're ever willing to give a serious answer. I know I can be snarky as hell myself and have given you shit, but why is that all you respond to? Whenever someone gives you a real answer you drop off the map, unless it's about video games? :shrug:

[bbinacan]

4. Agreed. n/t

[Arctic Dave]

8. Stand with israel? Why?

[Don Caballero]

13. They are our greatest ally not only in the ME but in the world.

[Cali_Democrat]

14. Why exactly has Israel done for America?

Besides siphon off billions of dollars a year in military aid and make us hated in the middle east?

They aren't a real ally, they are a mooching pain in the ass.

[MUAD_DIB]

23. Well, they've spied on us. That must account for something. Right?

:sarcasm:

[scarletwoman]

34. Let's not forget the U.S.S. Liberty.

Such wonderful friends...

[Arctic Dave]

18. Britain will be mad that we are seeing someone else.

[Cali_Democrat]

9. Why the hell should we have to babysit Israel and other nations in the middle east?

I'm tired of America sticking it's nose in the middle east. Let them tear each other apart. Who gives a shit. Have the UN deal with it.

While we're at it, let's pull all our troops out of the middle east NOW.

[MUAD_DIB]

20. No. If Israel wants to pick a fight with Iran then they should do it on their own.

IF they're big enough to sit at the adults table then Israel can defend itself if they were to decide to unilaterally attack Iran.


Diplomacy is always best, and has worked wonders in the past. War is just messy and there are no winners in a nuclear contest.

[lib2DaBone]

12. I don't think we should let Israel tell us what to do ...

Why is Hillary stirring up war? Don't we have enough on our plate already?

[marmar]

16. The movie's already started, but.....

:popcorn:

[HysteryDiagnosis]

17. Yes yes yes, Iran is ready to commit suicide... yes we all believe

they will use it and then get spattered across the map.... not.

[Canuckistanian]

19. We have no CLUE that a bomb is being built

Only that Iran is enriching Uranium, and coincidentally, at too little a concentration to make bombs out of.

Add to that a pronouncement from Ayatollah Seyed Ali Khamenei in 2006 that "We do not need a nuclear bomb. We consider nuclear weapons an affront to Islamic precepts." And don't forget, he's Ahmadinejad's boss.
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-146604080.html

PLUS the 2007 National Intelligence Estimate that said Iran halted it's nuclear weapon program in 2003.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/03/world/americas/03iht-cia.5.8573960.html

Why does everyone assume that Iran's building a bomb?

And even assuming they are who would they use it against? Israel? The Iranis know that it would be suicide. The US AND Israel would unleash a firestorm on Iran that would UTTERLY destroy it.

So why all this saber rattling from Clinton?

[scarletwoman]

24. "So why all this saber rattling from Clinton?" Because the DLCers are basically no different

from Neocons when it comes to foreign policy.

I'm so sick of all this crap. Let Iran have nukes -- Pakistan has them, China has them, Russia has them -- and for cripes sakes, Israel has them too.

Iran isn't going to nuke anyone -- only the U.S. does that shit. Every other nuclear-armed country in the world has them as deterrents against attack. Iran would be no different -- and obviously, they have very good reason to want that kind of deterrence. Especially so with all the saber rattling against them going on.

Let Iran have nukes, and let everyone else sober the fuck up.

sw

[Zorro]

28. That's not the real worry

The real worry is that Iran will provide a nuke to a non-governmental organization, to do with it what they will.

I think nuclear proliferation is not a good thing.

[daleo]

30. Iran would have to have a lot of nukes to do this

Plus, once they are in the nuclear club they will become just as protective of their nukes as every other nuclear nation. It's been that way for sixty years. Leaders don't seem eager to commit nuclear suicide, once they are safely in the club.

[scarletwoman]

33. How many NGOs have missiles capable of carrying a nuclear payload?

It's an absurd fear at this point. Or have you forgotten the Pakistani scientist (sorry, his name escapes me at the moment) who sold nuclear technology all over the place in the 90s?

A nuclear bomb needs a delivery system. How big is the Al Queda air force?

I don't care much for nuclear proliferation either, but the genie's been out of the bottle for many decades now. Until EVERYONE decides to give up their nukes, a balance of power and MAD is about the best we can hope for.

If Iran had the Bomb, I think it would lead to a more peaceful Middle East.

sw

[Canuckistanian]

29. Agreed on all points

This is Israel's doing. It's disgusting what a hold they have on American foreign policy.

[EFerrari]

41. AND Iran has said repeatedly that it will swap uranium for the kind

they can use to power medical equipment.

I'm sorry but the State Dept is full of it.

[JVS]

31. Iran would have to be crazy to stop building their bomb.

Countries without the bomb get invaded, like Iraq and Afghanistan. Countries with the bomb, like Pakistan and North Korea, get better treatment.

[MadHound]

36. Let's see here,

If I put this thread together with this thread, and the knowledge that Hillary pals around with The Family folks.

This looks ugly. Really, really ugly.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

39. Clinton clings to Bush ideals on Iran - Guardian/UK

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/feb/16/hillary-clinton-iran-bush

In laying out the American approach to Iran, Clinton showed how little US foreign policy has changed since the last years of the Bush administration. President Bush famously explained that he would not negotiate with unfriendly regimes because he didn't want to "reward bad behaviour". He wanted states like Iran to change of their own accord, not as a result of negotiation but as a pre-condition for being allowed to negotiate.

Clinton embraces this same idea. She rejects the view that as Iran becomes more threatening and approaches nuclear breakout capacity, diplomatic engagement becomes more urgent. Instead she takes the opposite view. "We don't want to be engaging while they are building their bomb," she said this week.\\

Some of America's most seasoned diplomats are eager for the chance to see what kind of a "grand bargain" they could strike with Iran. An ideal one would curb the nuclear programme, guarantee some measure of protection for brave Iranians who are being brutalised for defending democratic ideals, and give Iran security guarantees that might lure it out of its isolation and lay the groundwork for a new security architecture in the Middle East. Instead the US has fallen back on sabre-rattling. This pleases Israel, war hawks in Washington, so-called American allies like Saudi Arabia – and most of all, President Ahmadinejad and his reactionary comrades in Tehran. They thrive on confrontation, and are doing all they can to bait the US into attacking their country. It is a strategy as effective as it is dangerous.

[Thothmes]

44. Maybe the Secretary of State is carrying out the guidance

given her by the President of the United States.