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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:06 PM
Original message
There is no justice in America.
Can you show me that there is justice for all?

I really believe justice is dead in America.
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. But vagueness is alive and well nt
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. It's an honest question.
Show me where there is justice for all in America.

Isn't that one of the basic tenets that makes us Americans?
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el_bryanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Liberty and Justice for all?
Some people do get justice I suppose. Just not enough.

Bryant
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. That's my point.
If there is not justice for all, then there is no justice in America.
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el_bryanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
22. How could we achieve complete justice?
I'd settle for equality before the law myself.

Bryant
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. By taking action instead of asking empty questions....?
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el_bryanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. well what sort of actions should i be taking? n/t
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. If that is a sincere question, rather than a taunt, there ARE actions that are beginning.
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jdlh8894 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
5. In the Constitution
Where is "and justice for all" mentioned?
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. It's not.
It's in the pledge they made us do every single morning.

So a pledge means nothing?
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jdlh8894 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. The Pledge is just that
a pledge.It is not a law or a Constitutional guarantee or privilege of your rights.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. So in other words,
it's a phony way to make kids believe something about their country that isn't true?

Do I have it right?
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jdlh8894 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Do I have it right?
No. n/t
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Then feel free to explain.
(And when someone types NT it means "no text" and the place you put that is in the subject line so people know there is no need to click on reply to read the rest, because there's no text left to read.)

I'd really like to know why you answered no. Is the idea of justice for all just some kind of a cruel hoax?
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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. Yes.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #27
42. Thank you.
Finally a straight answer.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
46. I suppose we all see what we want to see... n/t
I suppose we all see only those things we want to see...

That way, we always have it right-- at least from our own perspectives.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. Or perhaps we just see what our eyes tell us?
Hear what our ears hear?
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. I used to think that...
I used to think that. One man sees justice, another sees injustice. One man sees a rock, another man sees a sculpture waiting to be birthed.

For every absolute in the universe, there are a million people ready to tell us it's all relative...
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. People like that just get me worked up, ya know? nt
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #57
70. Not me.
Not me. it's just the opinions of other people based on how they themselves perceive the world, even if they believe it to be fact.
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. I think you mean that justice is not equally applied
...and that, I agree, is viciously damaging to the country.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
38. You're close.
What I'm saying is there can not be justice when there is not truly justice for all.

It's not justice for some, justice for the poor, justice for the rich, it's justice for all.

Justice means everyone treated the same, we do not have that.
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Frosty1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
8. Justice in America is for those who can afford it.
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igfoth Donating Member (77 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. We posted at the same time the same thing
Jinx on you!
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Frosty1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. Great minds think alike?
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. +1
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Joe the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
32. Same applies to health care, education and whole plethora of other things n/t
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Frosty1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #32
43. So true
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #32
58. Like housing?
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igfoth Donating Member (77 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
9. Justice is What You can Afford
in America, it has always been so.

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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
12. and call Congress right fucking now!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
13. Justice is always a struggle because the government's agenda
is rarely if ever the good of the people.
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Journeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
15. In the Halls of Justice the only place you can find the Justice is in the Halls. . .
where all the deals and bribes are made.

~ Lenny Bruce
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Love Lenny.
He was one of the truth tellers.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
20. Justice is a commodity in the US of A

the amount ya can get is the amount ya can pay for.

In fact, everything is a commodity, the air, the water, your health, your life.

That's some fucked up shit.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Hey pig.
Listening to a little Buddy Guy & Junior Wells, so fucking good it's bad, ya know?
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. Yep, there's lots of blues goin' round...
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. That is some low down, baby. Thanks. nt
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #36
62. That's great. Thanks for that!
Been AGES since I listened to Leadbelly.

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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
24. A lot of us came to that conclusion a long time ago.
But, of course, we were then labeled.

:shrug:

You know, what you just brought to mind.. I think it was back in the 60s, and I think it was the Black Panthers, but wasn't there a saying about Justice coming from the barrel of a gun?

When Rugged Individualist "progressives" keep averting their eyes to the injustice, that is exactly what they are inviting.

:(
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. When they lose their homes and they are in the street with the masses my friend.
Justice is an idea lost on the poor.

Funny you bring up the Panthers, just watched the move from 1995 last night.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #24
41. Mao said that,
"but wasn't there a saying about Justice coming from the barrel of a gun?"

Right before he killed 50 million of his own people.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #41
60. Thanks for giving me the source.
My memory ain't what it used to be. :hi:
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Mudoria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
26. Under this premise show me where there is justice for all anywhere on Earth..
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. I don't live "any where on earth"
I live in America. Your argument holds no water at all.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Great reply. It begins HERE.
Finding excuses and expounding on empty rhetoric goes nowhere.

We start HERE.

We start NOW.

:hi: :yourock:
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Oh that's one of my favorites.
If you don't like it here try living in (fill in blank.)

Gawd what bullshit, just another version of "America, love it or leave it."

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PufPuf23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
35. Justice in America is a function of $, who you know, who are your
relatives, what you know, and whether you or your interests are in the way of someone or an entity more powerful.

I gave up on the justice system being fair years ago and avoid at all cost despite being law abiding.
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NM_hemilover Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
37. how can a blind man be taught to see,


Not only your thread, but every post you have responded to leads me to believe that this IS your party and you just need to cry cuz you want to.

Life isn't always fair, I guess you are too young to have ever been told that. look up "pledge" and then "guarantee" and I think you can answer your own question. Why don't you spit out whatever it is that has chapped your ass, instead of fueling a self centered, selfish argument over something that you obviously got the muddy end of the stick over?

or are you just bored and joking ?
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. You've been paying that much attention to me in,
what? Like 5 days? 6? And you come in and question my motives? I find that interesting.

Did you go back and read everything in my journal? I'm flattered, really, I am.

Is this your clever way of telling me to shut up? If that is the case than I'll have to respectfully say no.

I'm asking questions, and just trying to get answers. You might take that analytical crap and turn it on yourself.

Why does the question bother you so? Is it all questions, or just some?

Then take it a bit further, why are you so interested in me? Why do I specifically seem to get your goat?

To answer your question I'm soon to be 50 and have been a activist for more than 30 years. I've been arrested for what I believe in. Have you? Am I self-centered, maybe. And as far as the muddy end of the stick goes? My personal life could not be better, but what I see in my neighborhood, around the country that I call home, often leads to questions I don't have the answer for.

And no, I'm not bored or joking.

I tried my best to answer all of your questions, will you answer even one of mine?

Have a nice day.
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NM_hemilover Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. Not telling you to shut up,
Offering a platform that nobody else in your thread has,

Correct, I have been on DU for 5 or 6 days you super sleuth you, however I not only have a life outside DU now, I had one before 5 or 6 days ago. No I have not read everything in your Journal, nor will I. I just turned 41, never been arrested and pretty much dig my life, but I'm not sure already if DU is the place for me BECAUSE I'M HAPPY, and that doesn't ring out as common here.

You don't get my goat, I'll most like not cross paths with you again, I find your method of activism, anti-productive and more specific "corrosive" . You blurt out a flaming ball of bullshit and take pride on your ability to point out how there is no justice in America, so long as you can give examples of in-justice, ........what are the odds huh.

My opinion, you don't want answers, you just want a cheering section. And no matter how long you have been writing in your journal, or promoting no justice in America, there will never be a point where you are satisfied.

No muddy stick eh ? What fun would life really be if you couldn't wave a muddy stick and declare the injustice of it all.

Let me know how many days I need to be here before I dare question the brilliant declaration of "There is no Justice in America" I doubt seriously I can ever answer your questions to your satisfaction, nobody but you can.
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NM_hemilover Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. I told you
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NM_hemilover Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. I expected a little more, you were right.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Are you talking to yourself? nt
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NM_hemilover Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. yeah, talk to myself sometimes, might as well type to myself


I don't think this is the place for me, this seems like a very "focused" group of people. I read thru the threads and the vast majority I read seem to either taunt into an argument or compliance. I know my reply to you fits that mold pretty well(ashamed icon ?) but I'm really not that way. Maybe the lounge is where I should be if I log on here.

better tomorrows.


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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Human to human in all sincerity I hope you stay.
Edited on Tue Feb-16-10 06:38 PM by asdjrocky
I welcome everyone's point of view and I don't agree with many here. I'm not at all the norm at DU.

I will tell you, there are a few what you may call hardcore leftest here like me, but I in no way want to shut down any dialog or discussion with you. Most are liberal to middle of the road in my opinion.

I count almost everyone here as a friend and some as an ally, even the ones that often disagree with me.

Coming from someone who I'm pretty sure you have little in common with, I really hope you stay.

If you need a friend for a while, I'm happy and proud to be one. Even if you do like the New York Football Giants.

Peace. (I'm not always the asshole people think I am, but try not to let that get around.)


edited becuse on top of being a jerk, I can't spel.
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NM_hemilover Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. ;)


I can let the Giants comment go, so long as you don't tell me you're a dallas fan ;)

I'll save you a seat next to me, at my weekly assholes annymous meeting, the people are a bunch of assholes, but the snacks are awesome. I'm hoping to get my "keep your mouth shut badge" pinned on me this week.


Methinks you and I may be at least from the same quarry, if not the same stone. I'll keep my blasting caps to myself, take care.


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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. No way on Dallas!
Loyal 49er fan all my life. Actually saw them play at Kezar Stadium when I was like 5 and I fell in love.

You hang loose my friend, consider a chair saved for you at the weird kids table always.

Peace.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #37
59. And calling names is so much more productive?
You know, most of us have had it up to here with the RW habit of calling us names, and will not tolerate getting it from "our own side".

The OP has done nothing wrong, and has every right to express his/her emotions.

Don't like it? There are a lot more threads on DU to chose from. Being parental and authoritarian towards someone who has written something you don't like is.... well, to quote you, "self-centered and selfish". Thanks, mama...

Yes, it goes both ways.
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NM_hemilover Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #59
65. Come on, I mean come on

The hypocrisy in your post is,...not to put to fine a point on it hilarious.

I can talk to myself to get all the responses I expect and/or want, I can also seek out the people who seem to have the EXACT same outlook on things, and feel snuggly safe in their acceptance of me.

I could also follow your clear and concise, pre-approved acceptable responses,.... sounds thrilling. I took what the OP said, and responded in the way it made me feel. He likewise responded in the way my post made him feel. And by the time the short discussion was over, I'm pretty sure I feel a little differently about him than I may have at the start, tragic huh.

I doubt he needs anybody backing him up. I actually did enjoy the exchange, and don't regret it. I don't want to just seek out people that I agree with and discuss the things we agree about. I'm sure I'll come across LOTS of people I agree with, but I'm new here and I want to talk TO somebody, not just agree and be welcomed as a newbie drone.

As for your distaste for name calling...............I ain't your mama, it's like a hypocrisy cherry on top. Got enough Olympics recorded, and shes got a fire going, I'll check back in later or before work tomorrow. take care.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. Yeah, come on, man, indeed.
you got right onto the attack train, without a second thought.

And you get all defensive when called on it, and attack back with a vengeance.

Peace... like, yanno... it USED to be a "progressive" value.

You are new, so you might not know this... the admins installed a feature just for those of you who seem to like so few people..it's called IGNORE. It's that little red "x" by my name.

Please use it.

Thank you.
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NM_hemilover Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #66
68. not defensive, hardly feel threatened by you.


I don't need to hit a little red x to ignore you, I have no intention of ignoring you. You do have the right to not talk to me, although I don't think you help yourself,....I understand.

As for your attack train, you really neeed to brush up on trying to put me in my place, I can hear the spittle hitting your screen you are so upset, and I think you sound silly. Go back and read the whole exchange between the OP and myself, you might understand it ........you might not.

I would love to know what your response would be if I expressd how lucky I feel to live in the United States, and although it will never be perfect it will always be the greatest place to live. I have a feeling you may have just blown a heart valve and are loading up to call me names and qustion my motives.

Vengence ? Christ how insecure are you ? Skip over your hypocricy, and your really poor attemt to brow beat me into submission and you and I might even find something to agree on.

Punch some holes in your box, I think you might need some air. I'm off to work, but I'll check in later, try to have a good day, but what fun would that be right?



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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. This M.O. is so familiar. Don't speak to the issue, don't discuss ways of improving
the situation for homeless people, but PERSONALLY ATTACK.

Yes, we've definitely seen this method, over and over and over.

You need a new playbook, because this is obvious to those who have been paying attention.
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NM_hemilover Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. You just now bring up the homeless specifically ?


I disagreed with the blanket slogan "There Is No Justice In America", I'm alowed that opnion.

I assume you have posted here for some time. Your comments give me the feeling you are trying to protect DU from the likes of me. I'm not out to get you, or the homeless. I could'nt agree more that there are enormous injustices leveled on the homeless, but that is a conversation in and of itself.


I'm guessing there is a thread somewhere discussing the homeless ?












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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. You have made yourself and your method very clear. It is very transparent.
Enjoy your stay, as DUers are wont to say....
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NM_hemilover Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #72
75. I think you are confused,
or drunk.

or just really really bitter about something, either way.........enjoy.

Go back to hypocrisy, at least you were funny then. take care
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
45. well, just look what happened to bu$h* & cheenee...oh, nevermind
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
49. there's a saying...
There is no justice. There is only "just us".

So I guess until the "us" become agitated enough to DEMAND equal justice for all, things will continue as they are.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #49
61. Exactly. It has to get bad enough to break through our Rugged Individualism shit.
Let the froggie boil!
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Atticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
63. There is justice, just as there is kindness and tolerance and intelligence.
It's just that it's not brought about by the government.

Five times as many whites as blacks use drugs, yet the overwhelming majority of drug offenders in prison are black.
Poor people go to prison. Wealthy people do public service work.
Bush is a free man.
Cheney is a free man.
Rumsfeld---

The hell with it. I need a Scot's Wisky!
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
64. It would help if you could be a bit more vague and/or melodramatic.
Think you can do it?
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nemo137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
67. There has never been justice anywhere.
Not consistently, at least. There was no "golden age" where justice was administered fairly. We pressed and pressed and forced them to be fairer, to cut back on the more obvious abuses, to level the playing field, and they pushed back.

There's no teleology. History does not advance towards ever greater heights of liberty, equality and fraternity. We fight and scrape for anything we can get. Throwing up our hands and saying "justice is dead" or "the banksters have all the power" is cowardly.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
73. 150 years ago, there was slavery. 70 years ago, blatant institutionalized racism
To quote MLK Jr, "The arc of the moral universe is long but it bends toward justice."
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. And yet....

people have yet to see that 40 acres and mule...

How long, lord, how long?
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