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20score Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 03:14 AM
Original message
One Small Step. Should Scare the Hell Out of You
Edited on Tue Feb-16-10 03:15 AM by 20score
From observation to restriction. Your every move, your every purchase, your every email can be and is being tracked. Sometimes by the government, sometimes by a corporation; and the line between the two entities gets blurrier every day. The potential for abuse is tempting to those who want power, and the tendency toward apathy is great for those who want a false sense of security. But the problem isnt with the technology; its with the laws. The technology is here and improving every day, to rail against the inevitable would be as futile as using a bucket to hold back the tide. There has always been the possibility and even a propensity for abuse, (in some) even in the pre-industrial world. But we can thank those like Jefferson and Madison who insisted that individuals have a right to remain unmolested, as long as they were innocent of any crime, and for the fact that we were not spied upon at all hours of the day in the past. Its time to stop taking those rights for granted while letting them slip away.

We already have the PATRIOT ACT, National Security Letters and AT&T turning over our records with no warrant. Now the Justice Department wants to be able to track anyones movements with no warrant. Why are these things so important when the system put in place in 1978 already favored law enforcement? Why are they necessary if they wont really be used? When set against economic injustice, environmental devastation and wars, the assault on civil liberties may seem to pale in comparison. But without true civil liberties, our ability to address those other problems is non-existent. Once it is accepted by the citizens that its okay for the government to watch us all the time, as long as I have nothing to hide we will have set ourselves up for a society where the word freedom will have no real meaning.

There are many people rightly upset by the continued assault on unions and the middle class in general, myself included. At a time when our insurance companies should have been permanently reigned in, they are swelling their profits and their power. Legal bribery of our politicians has been expanded at a time when it needed to be eliminated. Legal raiding of our treasury is obvious enough to sicken any who care, and we have a massive portion of our country fighting against their own interests. And to me these things are linked to potential future abuses that are possible by limiting long established rights. And with wealth being held by a smaller and smaller portion of the population, there will naturally be some who will insist on tighter controls. (The Stasi and the KGB didnt need to spy on all people at all times, just enough of the population to let people know it was dangerous to step out of line. With advances in technology, almost total surveillance is possible.)

We have all seen first hand how quickly circumstances can change and how easily people can be manipulated. That alone should prod people into action. Some of the same people who ridiculed the burning of the Beatles albums in the 60s, participated in the burning of the Dixie Chicks CDs in 2003. In a matter of months, the media was able to convince about half the nation of a complete falsehood - that Iraq was involved in the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Support for torture increased, just by changing its name. Many people were, and still are, ready to cede the power of the Legislative and Judicial branches to the President, and were/are claiming, against all evidence, that doing so is the Most American position. The only thing to be lost by insisting we have common sense limits on what the government can be privy to, is more freedom. By ignoring the slow encroachment of government and corporations melding, and ignoring erosion of the need for probable cause before surveillance, we risk losing the most important thing there is about being American.

We need to heed the warnings from years ago, from Orwell, Huxley and others and realize the future is already here.




http://www.wider.unu.edu/events/past-events/2006-events... /

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gjCPf...

http://people.reed.edu/~gronkep/TortureWhitePaperV2.pdf

http://www.aclu.org/national-security/internal-report-f...

http://atlanticreview.org/archives/726-More-Americans-B...

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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 03:27 AM
Response to Original message
1. Welcome to the revolution. n/t
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. It will be televised but most will switch to American Idol. nt
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20score Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. That's funny!
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #20
43. No, that's sadly accurate.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #43
51. Like most humor, it depends on ones distance. n/t
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
30. LOL!
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Waiting For Everyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 03:27 AM
Response to Original message
2. Without ownership of information about ourselves
we can't protect our rights and privacy.

Credit reports, think about that. We have to PAY to get our own information, while the companies collecting it (without recourse by us) get to sell it to anyone they want for huge profits (which we don't get any part of).

And THEN, it's used to blackball us out of our own economy.

If we don't change that, we have no freedom at all. It's just a word.
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Actually you can get a credit report from each agency FREE
once per year. You don't need the goofy guy with the guitar as seen on TV.
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damyank913 Donating Member (595 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Credit reports have been a major source of heartburn for me.
Edited on Tue Feb-16-10 06:58 AM by damyank913
It's MY INFORMATION. How the hell can you trade on me without my consent? And even when you get your free copy once a year you still don't get your credit score. Anyone actually visit the websites of these agencies? They make it as hard as possible for you to do or change anything. Add to that this bullshit, unmonitored "Do Not Call" list. You're right-it feels like we're all pawns being manipulated by some financial "higher power".
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20score Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. And when a company makes a mistake, the individual is the one who spends time and money to correct i...
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
6. The media is evil. I say turn it off and stop listening to the propaganda, but people are addicted
to the talking heads.

Wake up America!
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. agreed 100 percent....
I could not agree more-- whether the media is consciously, conspiratorially evil or not, it is certainly damaging, most especially television. I've been harping on that for years now. Turn that noise OFF!

:toast:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. +1000% ---
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wolfgangmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
28. This is not about you.
But I have always found the chastisement "Wake Up" to be condescending. Do you honestly think that anyone on the DU is not awake/aware or on their way?

Is it just me or does anyone else find that when someone ends their post/rant/comment with those words you pretty much have to force yourself to not ignore everything they have written.
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SusanaMontana41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. Nope, it isn't just you
And as a journalist I resent being called evil. McClatchey reporters turn out some damn good investigative stories. Are they evil, too?
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #33
46. Are you an honest journalist or do you print what your bosses tells you to? nt
Edited on Tue Feb-16-10 11:45 PM by earth mom
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olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #33
57. McClatchey reporters told us the run up to war was bull shit.
They reported that the tubes were not suitable for concentrating fissionable material. They were the only voice in the media that I know of that questioned the Bush administration. The rest of the major media sources were publishing White House memos and cheer-leading the Shock and Awe destruction of human beings as Baghdad was destroyed in a blitzkrieg by the PNAC fascists. All I could think of at the time was the Nazi's massive bombing of Warsaw, Poland that inaugurated WWII and the targeting of innocent civilians as an effective war strategy.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #28
44. I said "Wake Up America" not "Wake Up DU". I think you are just spoiling for a fight or something.
What I post is born from years of frustration and anger at how corrupt this country has become.

But put me on ignore by all means because I'm not going to stop speaking the way I feel like just because you don't like how I'm saying it or that I speak with emotion.

Btw, did you forget what this country was founded upon free speech?

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phasma ex machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
37. +10E10E10E10E10E10 Too many people outsource their cognition to M$M.
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phasma ex machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
38. deleted
Edited on Tue Feb-16-10 09:21 PM by phasma ex machina
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stillwaiting Donating Member (591 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
7. Righties insist that it's o.k. for the government to monitor pretty much every aspect
of individual citizens lives (no matter how intrusive) WITHOUT warrants. Clearly unconstitutional.

But THEN, they scream and clamor for FURTHER de-regulation of corporations. As if current regulatory practices are effective or pursued in ANY way that really checks corporate malfeasance.

So, unlimited surveillance of individual citizens without a warrant. No surveillance of corporate activities because that's somehow teh evil.

Their definition of freedom basically means the freedom for the corporations and the wealthy elite to run rough shod over all Americans without consequence.

They are so beyond brainwashed that it's simply unbelievable.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. The mindless dupe-lemmings get this from Glenn Beck!
I always wondered how these hypocritical "conservatives" can rail against Obama's "big-government healthcare plan"
while they're all for making greedy, evil corporations more powerful and less regulated. I mean really...LESS
regulation than we have now???

I had a teabagger tell me---(and yes this is word for word) that the reason our economy crashed was because the
government forced the banks to loan to poor people who should have never been in those houses in the first place!
Yep, the government MADE the banks give out those bad, irresponsible loans. Why they practically held a gun to
those bankers' heads! Therefore--we need less regulation on banks! We need the government off the backs of the
corporations so the economy doesn't crash again.

Do you just want to bash your head against a wall when you hear such nonsense? Total ignorance.

The banks gave millions to our politicians, so the politicians would deregulate them. After the banks got their
paid-for deregulation they were able to loan out money to ANYONE and open up a new line of "creative financing".
This made loans accessible to everyone--but the banks were bundling those loans and packaging them up as
AAA-rated mortgage-backed securities and making billions! The banks couldn't give out enough loans---and it certainly
wasn't the government forcing them to do so!

I have NEVER seen more mass ignorance, than with these conservatives who think that listening to Glenn Beck makes them smart.


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wolfgangmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #14
31. My brother in law told me the same thing.
I looked at him and told him it had never happened. {pause} There is no regulation forcing banks to loan to anyone. Period.

He tried to tell me their was government regulations doing that and I asked him what they were called and where I could find them. He himmed and hawwed and finally admitted that he didn't know.

But I know he still believes it. Of course this joker was also a member of the Lambs of Christ (nuts who target abortion doctors and their families) so I guess I shouldn't be suprised by that.
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olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #31
58. They are referring to the red-lining of minority dominated areas.
Remember this fact that the vast majority of Democrats opposed the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act until the Republicans agreed to include stronger legislation forcing the Banks to stop this practice that has first been attack by President Carter. The disastrous repeal was then approved by the majority. When the bill got to Clinton's desk it was veto proof.

This has been used by the racists Republicans to blame the housing market collapse on minorities. However, the rate of foreclosure in minority dominated areas isn't any greater and in many cases much lower than predominately affluent white areas. This is just another example of the racists Republicans searching for a scapegoat and using propaganda to mislead their airhead followers when it was the greedy bankers that caused the collapse.
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snagglepuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #7
48. An excellent point.
Edited on Wed Feb-17-10 12:25 AM by snagglepuss
:hi: Welcome stillwaiting to DU.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
8. K & R
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suede1 Donating Member (770 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
11. K & R I'll say something when the coffee kicks in :)
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20score Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. That's funny!
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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
13. K & R.
You'll hear a knock on your door soon.

;)
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
15. And here is something else that is scary. Right now we have a great deal of
Edited on Tue Feb-16-10 03:08 PM by truedelphi
Internet freedoms. How long will they last?

Also, we expect that if we write an essay or a poem or a novel, we can store said creation to our computer storage medium of choice. You might like to burn CD's, someone else might put it on their HD, someone else might use floppies.

Right now, the cutting edge of the computer world is saying, "We don't need to build storage devices for people any more. They will love the new Itablet, despite its lack of storage. Let them put their work in the "cloud" and that will save us the hassle of having storage-media equipped machinery."

Today the "cloud" is free. But what happens twenty years from now, when all the books at the library are now on the "cloud." And all our bank records. And all our essays, poems, novels, etc.

And they either demand so much money for subscirptions to the cloud, or they simply pull the plug on the cloud?

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suede1 Donating Member (770 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
16. There are many who have their panties in a bunch...
over keeping our citizenry healthy. What they are missing is that one of the very foundation of our country, our civil liberties, are slipping away.

I doubt they'd see it as a problem even if they did see that it is happening, they are so misinformed and misdirected.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
17. They always have. Today it's much easier electronically. Here's a personal
story. Back in 1959 when I was in college, one of my cousins, who was in the Air Force and was stationed in England, ran across a glossy magazine published in Russia about Russian life. Since we were being taught that the Russians were living in gulags, crowded apartments and waited in line for everything, the magazine painted a different picture. It was propaganda, of course, but it was an interesting contrast especially when you put it side by side with our propaganda. It showed we were identical in how we showed ourselves and the enemy, like a mirror. Since I was taking world history at the time, my cousin sent me a copy. I thought it was so interesting I asked him to send me a copy every month, which he did in a plain brown envelope. Well, after six months the FBI and CIA visited my parents and questioned them about what I was doing. They also told them not to tell me they were investigating me.

Of course they freaked out and demanded that I tell my cousin not to send me the magazine. I finally got the truth out of them about the visit. So I wrote my cousin about not sending me the magazine and he wrote me back that he had lost his security clearance and the Air Force was sending him to Lubbock, Texas pending an investigation. I went from stunned to angry. Why? I couldn't believe the US government was reading my mail! I thought it was against the law! Apparently not. At the age of nineteen I had my first harsh lesson on how our government really works. There are laws for them and laws for us and trying to learn anything commie that wasn't the official line was forbidden.

Eventually, after being investigated we were cleared of any suspicions, of what I don't know, being spies? My cousin got back his security clearance and his rank that he had been stripped of and soon finished his service commitment to become a civilian. But then I knew, nothing is private. They will go through your mail and your phone calls, maybe even your conversations are being recorded from a distance. We were no different than the Soviet Union in spying on our citizens. Maybe they didn't kick our doors down in the middle of the night but our First Amendment rights to read anything we wanted to were being violated if it came from the commies.

So do be forewarned. You never know when they might target you or why. My cousin and I were both nineteen then, yet it seems we were not too young to be investigated in that Cold War era. I'll bet today they are spying on anyone from the Middle East or rode in a taxi-cab with someone from the ME or went to an ethnic restaurant from that place in the world. I am being sarcastic but not much.

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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #17
34. Mail crossing the border is always subject to the possibility of search.
It's the same all around the world. Nothing unusual there.

And right or wrong, having anything to do with Communism (even just reading magazines) was not a smart thing for anyone, let alone someone in the military, to do at that point in US history.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. So you admit our state was as totalitarian as theirs? n/t
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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #41
52. I don't admit anything. However as a matter of fact I agree that it was...
...and still is to a great degree.

All I did say though is that anything or anyone crossing international borders may be legally searched or inspected without warrant or probable cause outside of specific diplomatic immunity. These laws are nothing new, they've been around just about as long as civilisation.

I also noted that if when sticking your fingers in a live socket you should probably expect a less than ideal outcome. Communist hysteria was on the rise and any connection no matter how tenuous or innocent with Communism was an invitation to investigation. Try getting caught with a copy of The Big Book of Mischief or the Anarchists Cookbook in your mail today.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #52
55. And you see nothing wrong with this?
The problem is that as kids, my cousin and I were reaching for the truth. The commie crap had a stink to it but we couldn't figure it out until we started looking at the other side and found out that side was no different than ours. Revelation came to us. We were doing it through means we thought were legal and not subversive. We found out after the fact, not to stick our fingers in the socket and that we had been lied to all our lives just as we had been lied to about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. The only problem was that those two guys were fantasies and we were willing to accept it. But Uncle Sam double crossing us and lying to us? That was really different. Today we still get only one side rather than unbiased facts unless we are willing to dig for them. I'm sure everyone on DU is being thoroughly investigated and that also means you. Are you going to sleep really well tonight knowing this? Yes, you can get those books you mentioned. I have a copy of one of them, but you will have agents snooping in your business because of it. I am much more careful of being up front about it though so that I and my relatives don't get knocks on the door. However, all the BS about the land of the free is exactly that, BS. I hope we can change it someday.
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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 03:13 AM
Response to Reply #55
56. Yes I do see plenty wrong with this. But you get to deal with the world you have...
...not the world as you wish it would be.

And as a matter of fact most people can so pretend and never be bothered by Big Brother. It was your cousin's position in the military and the potential for compromise there that turned possibility into reality, anyone else, odds are you would never have been bothered.



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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #17
47. Wow, what an incredible story! Thank you so much for sharing.

This is why I love DU! You get to read all kinds of stories from people's personal experience; kind of stuff that you can't find anywhere else. :)
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #47
50. I'll betcha by tomorrow there will be posts that basically call me a liar. n/t
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Goldstein1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
19. We can take the world back anytime we gather the courage
I think a lot of people have given up on the system, they're just afraid to speak up and they are shouted down by loyalists if they do. They're just waiting for a critical mass with a leader in a position to rally that mass to agree with them.

Either a revolt is coming, and it will be ugly, or that status quo will survice, which will be still uglier.

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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Yep, a leader is needed like a Ghandi or a Mandela.
I thought Cindy Sheehan might be and maybe will be yet.
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Goldstein1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Cindy Sheehan is the subject of a lot of ridicule...
but she stays strong. I'm proud of the way she serves her son's memory, and how she ignores those who accuse her of betraying that memory. As these wars drag out, and if there is some major shock, like the Tet Offensive in Vietnam, that undermines confidence, she could be a good focal point.

My wife and I are still recovering from the hit we took in the recession, holding onto a home in another state that we don't want to keep because an underemployed relative needs to live in it right now. We're hoping to be able to sell it by summer. At that point, my activism is going to ramp up considerably, including being able to travel to attend marches.

My wife is so fed up with this country that she just wants to leave it. For a variety of reasons, including taking the time to visit some potential locations, we've picked when I retire, in six years, as the date to become expatriates.

The defense of the terrible things this country is doing repulses me. The defense of the same practices under Obama by those who condemned them when Bush/Cheney was doing them is especially repulsive. It convinces me that for these people having Obama in the White House is not about solving problems, or about making progress, or even about democracy, it's just about being in control.



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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #24
39. I was with Cindy at Camp Casey the day after she returned from
Edited on Tue Feb-16-10 09:37 PM by Subdivisions
her trip to Jordan. We were under and tent and a speaker introduced Cindy to those present and, in the back, a man, older and obviously a hard-core Texan conservative and most definately a veteran, suddenly started yelling at her that she was "soiling the memory" of her son and all those that have served and died in war. Now, I don't remember all the exact words, but let me tell you...Cindy let that man have it, albeit with as much respect as she could muster under the circumstances. And, she did it with knowledge, while the man spewed nothing but venom he learned from fux snooze. Because Cindy had purchased the property in Crawford, naming it Camp Casey, the man was on HER property. As such, he was invited to leave.

She is currently organizing a sit-in on the grounds of the Washington Monument and engage in civil disobedience actions in D.C. in protest of war. You can get info on that event here: http://www.peaceoftheaction.org.
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Goldstein1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #39
54. "Soiling the memory"--That's funny
Cheney routinely pollutes the Sunday talk show scene with the blood dripping from his fangs, but a mother who lost a son in an illegal war and who is speaking out against war crimes and war criminals is soiling the memory of her son. What twisted notions some people have. There are even a number of war mongers on DU, although I really believe they are just Obama supporters, and since he's embraced the Bush/Cheney wars and tactics, they have no choice, I guess.

Thank you for that link.

We were hoping to spend March in Washington, D.C., attending several planned events and being available for anything that might occur spontaneously, but that appears to be financially out of the question until we're able to sell our house in another state, and that is unlikely until an underemployed relative living in our house gets back on his feet. But we can still offer financial support for those who are able to attend.

As these wars drag out, there will be more Cindy Sheehans.
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olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #24
60. If I was younger and didn't have strong family ties I would relocate.
I suggested this when I first retired, but it is difficult for a grandmother to do so. My wife adores the grand children and so do I, but there is a special tie that is hard to break between grandma and kids. I can easily imagine younger people leaving United States for better opportunities. We allowed the corporations to destroy our manufacturing base and what kind of future is there people trapped in service sectors jobs? All Obama can talk about is generating green jobs. What makes him think that this technology can't and won't be as easily out-sourced as was making toasters and sewing machines.
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Goldstein1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. Family ties are the most difficult part of our plan
My wife and I want to expatriate when we retire. We're researching several countries right now, but a friend has un convinced that the non-tourist parts of Thailand are the best options. My particular skill sets(science/engineering/environmental/safety/languages) lend themselves to business opportunities in those parts, so semi-retirement might be more interesting. I'm learning Thai right now in preparation for a one-month visit to their this December.

But we will be leaving three children and four grandchildren behind. We plan to maintain a "residence" in Alaska for tax and pension purposes. We'll come back each year to spend May-July with family.

American industry will continue to suffer until free trade is abolished. The list of products and companies my wife and I boycott because they've closed U.S. manufacturing plants and sent the jobs outside is becoming huge. It's getting harder and harder to find American-made goods, so we resort to Internet sites to get them, only to be condemned by friends who work in local retailers. It's a very tangled web, and that is by design.

The only way to strike at corporations is through economic boycotts of products and services, which will hurt the working poor on the front lines of delivering those goods and services. We have been assimilated, but all Borg are not created equal.

The green jobs are already going overseas. I was recently offered a position as Director of Safety with one of the larger solar companies in the U.S. There current Director, a friend of mine, was taking a project manager position for their India operations. I was advised that I would probably be asked to relocate myself within two years. I told them India isn't of interest, but call me the moment you need someone in Thailand or Central/South America.

The entire political-social-economic system is being managed by the Few at the expense of the Many for the benefit of the Few. U.S. citizens are being incorporated into a global peasant class to be exploited. In my opinion, only a fool would hope for improvement as long as business controls both parties of a two-party system. Our political and economic elite have more loyalty to each other, and to the elite around the globe, than they have to their own citizens.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #24
61. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Goldstein1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Cindy Sheehan is the subject of a lot of ridicule...
but she stays strong. I'm proud of the way she serves her son's memory, and how she ignores those who accuse her of betraying that memory. As these wars drag out, and if there is some major shock, like the Tet Offensive in Vietnam, that undermines confidence, she could be a good focal point.

My wife and I are still recovering from the hit we took in the recession, holding onto a home in another state that we don't want to keep because an underemployed relative needs to live in it right now. We're hoping to be able to sell it by summer. At that point, my activism is going to ramp up considerably, including being able to travel to attend marches.

My wife is so fed up with this country that she just wants to leave it. For a variety of reasons, including taking the time to visit some potential locations, we've picked when I retire, in six years, as the date to become expatriates.

The defense of the terrible things this country is doing repulses me. The defense of the same practices under Obama by those who condemned them when Bush/Cheney was doing them is especially repulsive. It convinces me that for these people having Obama in the White House is not about solving problems, or about making progress, or even about democracy, it's just about being in control.



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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. I know what you are saying. Both Ghandi and Mandela were also subject to
ridicule. There is a saying about first they laugh at you..., but I can't remember the whole thing, but it ends up with...and then you win.
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Z_I_Peevey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
21. K&R
Yes indeedy
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CubicleGuy Donating Member (271 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
23. How do you feel about automobile registration?
Wasn't that just an early first step to keeping track of everybody?

We pretty much take it for granted that all automobiles need to be registered with the government, but if that was a good idea, why shouldn't the government require everyone to be registered in order to use the internet? Or buy a TV? Or own a radio?
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #23
42. I know it's a bit of a stretch, but in a democracy, we the people are the
Edited on Tue Feb-16-10 10:34 PM by Cleita
government. Anyway that is the point of it. So we register vehicles to make sure that they meet certain standards because they can kill. Also they can be returned to the owner when stolen.
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CubicleGuy Donating Member (271 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #42
63. Auto registration is tied to auto standards?
Edited on Wed Feb-17-10 05:05 PM by CubicleGuy
Google the question "Why do I have to register my automobile with the DMV?" or some other wording that attempts to find the "why" behind auto registration.

When I did it, there wasn't a single link that I could find that attempts to explain to me why we do it.

That should be pretty telling in and of itself. Ours is not to question why, ours is but to do or die.

My GUESS as to why we do it is because we have decided that some form of a police state is a good thing, so that crimes involving automobiles in some way can be easily tied to a person.

But I find it extremely interesting that when I go to the California DMV website, and I ask the question about "why do we do this?" into the site's search engine, no explanation for the "why" comes up. The "why" is irrelevant, so far as the DMV is concerned. You only need to know that it has been deemed a necessity (punishable by law) and that's that. The search engine will help you find all the necessary forms that are needed by the bureaucracy to see to it that you are properly licensed and registered, and that you pay all of the necessary fees to make it happen, but they can not begin to tell you why. They don't want to go there. They don't want you to think about that, so they will not dignify the question with a response. No justification of it is necessary. Just do it.
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Mike 03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
26. Agree with everything you wrote, and fear it too.
So what do we do?
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
29. This is the one area where you'd expect the Teabaggers and Rightwing idiots to go nuts - but silence
I have never understood how any Conservative would stand for this.
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nimvg Donating Member (77 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
32. I Hate To Tell Ya...
...but this has been going on since the eighties. Do some research on Echelon.
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phasma ex machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #32
40. +1 also see Carnivore and Raytheon's Silent Runner
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
35. Not to put too fine a point on it,
but Orwell's 1984 was about 1948, so he'd have said we are very deep in at this point.
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
36. K & R...good article thank you...
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-16-10 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
45. k&r
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snagglepuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
49. K& R nt
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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
53. As a side note, and speaking for myself,
Edited on Wed Feb-17-10 02:02 AM by timtom
I had dismissed the Dixie Chicks as just another C&W group. As soon as they fell into disfavor over their historic remark, I gave them a listen, and they have turned out to be one of my all-time favorite musical groups.

Because of politics, I discovered an incredibly talented and powerful group. I mourn their fall from grace because of knee-jerk reactionism, and am deeply ashamed of America for it.

(It appears as though "reactionism" isn't a word. Well, it should be.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
59. Excellent post. Too late to Rec, but I tried.
Edited on Wed Feb-17-10 08:09 AM by closeupready
n/t
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
64. Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours
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