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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 01:35 PM
Original message
Afraid of letting women fly - the IOC and women ski jumping
Edited on Sun Feb-14-10 02:35 PM by suffragette


So, who is this ski jumper?

Her name is Lindsey Van and although she holds the world record for the longest jump at the Olympics normal jump venue, she won't be competing.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100212/wl_time/085991963...


The IOC seems to be stumbling over itself to keep excluding women ski jumpers.

The say it's a new discipline, but ski jumping is one of the oldest events and women have been trying to participate since it started.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michele-morris/olympic-ge...

The dispute over letting women fly is almost as old as the sport itself. Ski jumping was developed by the intrepid Norwegians who climbed up hills on their skis and then skied back down, jumping over obstacles. By the middle of the 19th century, ski jumping had evolved into a sport that attracted high-spirited, thrill-seeking skiers. The first woman on record to hurl herself off a jump at an international competition was an Austrian countess, Paula Lamberg, who in 1911 jumped 22 meters -- in a skirt! Girls, dressed as boys, competed at Nordic competitions until the 1950s when doctors insisted that ski jumping was too dangerous for girls and could affect their fertility.


Ok, we can see from the above bit that it became about fertility for awhile, the old saw that has been used countless times to "protect" women from working in certain (usually well-paid) jobs. Time has shown that this has generally been applied unequally and arbitrarily. What man has been excluded based on risks to his sperm or testes? That's not being cited as a reason by the IOC these days, though it wouldn't be surprising if some within that organization still think it's a factor.

Then there's the argument that there haven't been enough world competitions. Well, despite having to pay their own way, couch surf instead of staying in hotels, etc, women have been competing and doing quite well, thank you.

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_11748694
Lindsey Van made nordic ski history today, winning the first-ever gold medal in women's ski jumping at the nordic world championships in Liberec, Czech Republic.Van's winning jump of 97.5 meters was 4.5 meters better than the second-best jump, which gave Ulrike Graessler of Germany the silver medal. Anette Sagen of Norway claimed bronze.

The next is not enough women in the sport. Yet that, too, falls down when compared to other sports that have now been included:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michele-morris/olympic-ge...

Jacques Rogge, president of the IOC, insists that allowing the women to jump would "dilute the medals." There are only 185 elite women jumpers compared to 2500 men, he points out. Numbers didn't seem to matter when the IOC added snow cross, a roller-derby type of event on snow, to the Vancouver Olympics despite the fact that that only 135 women compete internationally.

"Dilute the medals." Really, I mean, really? That's the best the IOC can come up with?

The only dilution I can see is that women would likely perform just as well, in some cases better, than the best male ski jumpers.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michele-morris/olympic-ge...

"This is the 21st century," points out Lindsay Van, 27, one of the world's top women ski jumpers who has been training for almost 20 years and dreaming of one day earning an Olympic medal. "It feels like we're in the '50s and '60s pushing women's rights. This should not be happening now." While the world watches men jump for gold on Vancouver's 300-foot ski jump, Van, who holds the world's record of both men and women on that hill, will be watching from the sidelines, despite the fact that she has proven that women can fly, while the IOC's old men dig in their heels and stick in the mud.



I have enjoyed watching the men fly and will continue to do so. Just wish I could watch their sisters soar beautifully through the air, too.

edited to correct spelling
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. dates back to the witch burnings
they are afraid of women with wings.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Also afraid of women with competitive drive and skills
that best the boys in some cases

But, yeah, fear of flying ;)
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. "Fear of Flying"
Oh, that brings back memories.

Good one!
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. When I saw your OP subject line, it all came back to me
Ah, those were the days....
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #19
32. Would have made a great title
along with "IOC keeps event zipped up."

Now you just planted a Peggy Lee earbug in my ear. Those were the days, my friend.

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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
34. brave women fear nothing
brave men fear women.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. PERMIT the women to do so! The record holder on this jump is...a WOMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. It was a post of yours on a thread about this that inspired me
to search around and locate these articles and create this post.

Thanks for that and I agree completely.

They should be competing in these games.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I've put a link to your thread in the sports forum....
wish it luck!
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Thanks. I considered posting there, but feel this also has general interest
since it shows how pervasive discrimination still is.

Apparently a B.C. judge found that this is discriminatory, but ruled the IOC has to be the body to make the change:

http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/2010wintergames/s...

The IOC refused to allow a womens ski jumping event at the Vancouver Games. And although a B.C. Supreme Court judge ruled that it was discriminatory and contrary to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, it was not illegal.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. Where is NOW? This is outrageous.
They already had the men's event. I bet there is time for them to arrange a woman's event if there's enough protest. Or at least a demonstration event. I wish some woman's group would get a hold of this and raise holy hell.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #15
28. There aren't enough women jumpers to hold an event.
I mean they could let her jump by herself, but that's not really competition.

If she competed with the men she's lose by 10 meters. Not her fault, it's just that she's much lighter than the average male jumper. She broke the record by starting higher on the hill, again not her fault.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #28
39. The article addressed that
There are as many women jumpers as there are participants in other sports. They could at least make it a demonstration to build participation.
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Webster Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. This really pisses me off!
Those men are insane. This makes no sense at all.

What a weird world we live in. :wtf:
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
8. Ironically, Lindsey Vonn seems to be advertising Bet-At-Home.com and Visa.
Bet-At-Home is currently making book online on the 2010 Winter Olympics, including Vonn's races. Presumably, you can charge your wager to your Visa card. I love one-stop shopping.



Ski Women

Who will win the womens downhill at the Olympic Games?
(17/02/10 19:00)
Lindsey Vonn (USA) 2,50 Maria Riesch (GER) 4,00 Anja Prson (SWE) 5,70
Andrea Fischbacher (AUT) 16,00 Emily Brydon (CAN) 16,00 Nadja Kamer (SUI) 16,00
Ingrid Jacquemod (FRA) 16,00 Julia Mancuso (USA) 20,00 Fabienne Suter (SUI) 20,00
Marion Rolland (FRA) 20,00 Nadia Styger (SUI) 31,00 Elisabeth Grgl (AUT) 40,00
Marie Marchand-Arvier (FRA) 40,00 Gina Stechert (GER) 65,00 Dominique Gisin (SUI) 65,00
Aurelie Revillet (FRA) 65,00 Tina Maze (SLO) 75,00 Daniela Merighetti (ITA) 80,00
Anna Fenninger (AUT) 80,00 Andrea Dettling (SUI) 125,00 Lucia Recchia (ITA) 125,00
Leanne Smith (USA) 125,00 Elena Fanchini (ITA) 125,00 Stacey Cook (USA) 125,00
Chelsea Marshall (USA) 150,00

http://www.bet-at-home.com/start.aspx




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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. the lady in the OP is a different person... lindsey van. not vonn...
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
9. Fertitlity As if the Olympic Committee is going to get sued? They should take care of their own
business, not that of women - who could have already made a decision to proceed because their doctor said it to them or they read about it -but it is their choice.

I can't believe this - I had no idea.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
12. I wish those protestors would focus on this
This is important. I don't know that I can watch this sport anymore. It is so wrong.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
13. It's a mass/gravity issue, not a skill issue.
I wish there were an easy answer, but so far I haven't heard one.

Maybe adding extra weight for the women would work? Adjust the jumper's weight with lead lining (or whatever) until all the jumpers are the same weight. Allowing lighter competetors to start higher on the hill simply isn't fair.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. The men that compete are very small and light. nt
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EmeraldCityGrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #16
43. Yes they are. Women would kick male ass if allowed to compete...
that's what this is about. It's 2010 for christs sake!
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Electric Monk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Aerodynamics might play a role too, with women's bodies being naturally a little more wing shaped
Edited on Sun Feb-14-10 02:14 PM by Electric Monk
Larger near the leading edge, smoother at the trailing edge (no bulge in the crotch), thus causing less turbulence.

http://virtualskies.arc.nasa.gov/aeronautics/tutorial/w...



edit to add: I'm all for allowing women's ski jumping in the Olympics too. It's silly to keep them from competing if they want to.
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enlightenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Some of the male jumpers I watched yesterday were as
small as females - and the IOC isn't using that as an argument, are they (maybe somewhere down their list 'reasons').

As you point out, it can be adjusted without much difficulty, so it's really a non-argument.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. It's also about center of mass, which differs based on sex.
There is a real reason men and women are separated in competition, and it's not sexism.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. She set the record by starting higher on the hill.
Thus she had different energy at the takeoff, although it's difficult to measure. There are too many variables, like extra friction for instance. At that point a lighter body with a duplicate technique will always fly farther.

This problem is much more complex than "Just let her compete with the men". I don't blame the IOC for being careful.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. They could easily have separate mens and women's competitions
They do that for the sports in which women have a disadvantage in body mass and/or strength.

Why not do it the same if women are perceived to have an advantage?

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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. That's the whole point. There aren't enough women jumpers in the world to justify a competition.
At least not yet.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Yet other sports have been included with equal or fewer international competitors
I understand that is the reason they are now giving, but it doesn't seem to be applied equally.

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28...


Last year, nearly 100 women competed in FIS-sanctioned ski jump competitions. There are at least 30 top tier jumpers from 11 different nations numbers equivalent to Olympic women's bobsled stats and by the time the 2014 Olympics roll around several more world championships will have taken place. But a Vancouver shut-out has severely hindered the sport's ability to grow. Following the IOC's announcement, a recession-weary U.S. Ski and Snowboard Association dropped the U.S. women's ski jump team, saying that in this economy it could not afford to fund a non-Olympic event. Athletes have found their sponsorship opportunities limited, and Van worries that the sport's low profile will lessen its potential appeal for the next generation of jumpers. "When people hear about ski jump they just assume it's in the Olympics, but once they realize it's not, I don't feel that we're taken as seriously," she says.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/olympics/article...

In November 2006, the IOC rejected the bid for womens ski jumping to be included in the Games, saying there were not enough world-class participants. It denies the charge of sexism, saying: Decisions to include an event at the Olympic Games are taken on technical merit and with a global perspective. Womens ski jumping does not reach the necessary technical criteria and as such does not yet warrant a place alongside other Olympic events.

But the female athletes claim that their event is as universal as other winter sports. Womens ski jumping had 99 competitors from 15 countries on the elite circuit last season. Only 30 women from 11 countries were competing in ski cross, the freestyle race that makes its debut in Vancouver, when it was accepted into the Olympic programme. Indeed, Lindsey Van, the American who won the first womens World Championship this year, has soared farther than any man on the very hill in Whistler where the Olympic event will be held in February. Her record of 105.5 metres, set in January 2008, is half a metre better than a subsequent attempt by Guido Landert, from Switzerland.



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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Thanks, I didn't know that.
If they can prove they are Olympic class, let em jump.

I used to be a competitive gymnast, one class below the Olympic level. Making the move to Olympic level involved a major commitment and shift in attitude. I chose not to pursue it.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. "Let em jump"
and watch them fly.


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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #21
37. Sounds like a good idea.
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
54. Remember Galileo?
He proved that all masses fall at the same rate. There's your answer, and it was easy.

--imm
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-15-10 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #54
57. In a frictionless vacuum, yes.
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-15-10 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #57
60. Well that's a start.
All ski jumpers are subject to friction. Are you saying that women are more affected by friction than men?
:popcorn:

--imm
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-15-10 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #60
61. Less friction, because they're generally lighter and have less body surface area.
This is physics 101, not a sexist rant as you seem to be implying.
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-15-10 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. So women sky divers will fall faster than men?
Edited on Mon Feb-15-10 02:05 PM by immoderate
Uhm, true, they are generally lighter, except, of course, where they are heavier. So wouldn't that mean that heavier people have a distinct advantage in this sport? Does the heaviest person always win? Where are the 300 pound ski jumpers? Consider that when you double a person's weight, you don't double their dimensions.

Body surface? Are they jumping naked? I think it would be more suit area than skin surface. Do women's suits have more area than men's for the same weight? How about cup size? Streamlining? And I know distribution is different, but the effects are complex and would, I think, tend to cancel each other out. Are you familiar with Fermi math?

While your padding out your physics 101 course, (which appears to include some heavy fluid dynamics and turbulence, no less) you might want to figure in, that while heavier jumpers may present more friction, they also have more momentum, which tends to neutralize that.

In ski jumping, the technique is to minimize friction on the ramp (the tuck) and then maximize air foil effects on the jump. There may be a gender advantage there in terms of flexibility. I doubt it though.

I'm for separate events because that's what they do, and it means there are more medals. (Yay!) :patriot: For the record, I wasn't accusing anyone of misogyny, just bad science. :)

--imm
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BlancheSplanchnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
55. if it were only a physics issue, then why did the IOC guy have to come up with the weaselly phrase
"dilute the sport"?

Dilute the sport??? What does that even mean? Sounds like something you'd say if you're trying to come up with a rubric for keeping Jews out of your Aryan competition, or Blacks out of your water fountains.......

what a heaping helping of steaming CRAP!



(hrmm, low-brow media all over the place focusing on the female Olympians' cheesecake skills-- doesn't dilute nuffin. Right, I forgot: when it comes to elite female competitors, erotic tease is MUCH more important than their impressive achievements That's not the IOC's purview, but there's a similar attitude in play. Well, lucky for the hot looking women Olympians--at least that gets them SOME attention, if not the kind of coverage and respect that male athletes get without question.. The women that don't have the looks that little boys' fantasies are made of, though, are pretty much SOL.)


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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
14. The IOC should be ashamed of themselves.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #14
51. Yes, they should.
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Retrograde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
18. Dilute the medals? Maybe they can get rid of
events that are based on judgements, such as ice dancing, extreme skiing and the like.

Yes, I know they're hard and a lot of time and effort went into letting people get the results they do. But when I think of sports I think of events that can be objectively measured: someone covers X length the fastest, or jumps the farthest, or hits a target the most number of times, not who has the most "artistic" presentation. The Olympics motto talks about faster, higher and stronger, not glitzier and ratings-er.

Back to topic: why have both men's and women's ski jumping anyway? Why not just have ski jumping and let both compete? Lighter weight women may be a a disadvantage, but so then would be lighter weight men. If that's how it works.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. All skiing and boarding that requires summersalts and ice dancing would be nice to be gone. nt
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #18
45. well, ski jumping is also based on judgments, so that wouldn't help
:)
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
25. What part of ski jumping requires one to pee standing up? nt
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #25
38. Some consider writing one's name in the snow while jumping to be the ultimate flourish.
;-)
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sandyj999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
29. I have always wondered about that and now I know
"You've come a long way baby" also means you still have a long way to go. So kind of them to worry about fertility. :sarcasm:
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
33. FERTILITY WTF!?
DO THEY THINK A WOMAN WHO JUMPS WILL LAND AND ALL HER EGGS WILL ROLL DOWN HER FALLOPIAN TUBES AND FALL OUT OF HER VAGINA?
ARE THESE MEN INSANE?
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Withywindle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #33
49. It's not the landing.
It's the beginning of descent. As she starts to go down, her uterus might float up into her brain. Then when she lands, she'll be crazy.


:rofl:
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. I knew it would come back to wandering wombs
Darn hysters can't keep from floating all over the place and making women hysterical.
And no one wants women landing record jumps and then howling at the moon in celebration.

;-)
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-15-10 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #50
64. ROFL at both of you
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-15-10 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. .
:D
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
35. Once upon a time, when the PTB didn't want women competing in figure skating
against men, they explained that women would not be able to compete successfully because their skirts were so long that the judges would not be able to get a good look at their figure tracings as they made them on the ice.

The obvious solution---let the women compete in shorter skirts--was not considered.

It was not until a woman managed to be admitted into a competition (because no rule could be found distinctly prohibiting it) and almost beat them all that a decision was suddenly made to set up separate competitions for women, and to ban them from competing with the men.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Here's the only pic I could find of Paula von Lamberg jumping
while wearing a skirt.

For some reason, it won't post directly.
Here's a link to google images that shows it:

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&client=safari&rls...

Found this article in German with some history. Here's a Google translation of some of it:

http://www.skisprungschanzen.com/index.htm?/_imvisier/i...

A look at the evolution of women's ski jumping:
The history of women's ski jumping skiing is as old as the women themselves, as for men is also in Norway, the birthplace of the women's ski jumping because there should have been in 1862 in Trysil first jump attempt a Norwegian named Ingrid Vestby. From 1897 to the 10 years Ragna Pettersen says, is allegedly 12 meters have jumped on the Mesterbakken in Nydalen. End of the 19th Century, the city was located Asker, near Oslo, known by several ladies jumpings.
In the 20th Century, it was then also in other countries no longer a rarity, that girls could be seen on the jump hills. Thus, at the British Ski Championships 1911 in Switzerland, as the Englishwoman Hocking will be seven meters far jump. In the same year, however, sprang the noble Countess Paula Lamberg from Kitzbuehel 22 meters wide and is considered a pioneer of women's ski jumping in Central Europe. Worth mentioning is also a jumping in Trondheim, where the Grkalbakken in March 1914 allegedly ENTERED twenty-eight Norwegian women to compete.



Great info, Berry Cool. The more times change...

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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
40. I watched the segment Rachel did on this on Friday.
Sounded as if the main reason the women weren't allowed to compete in the Olympics in this sport are the old pasty white guys of the IOC.

Shameful.

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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Oh I'll have to look for that
Sounds like she nailed it.

On a side note, I so miss being able to watch the games on CBUT.
It was great being able to switch between Canadian and U.S. coverage.
I'm missing that.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
42. I can't understand how men are allowed to bicycle
when the future of the species depends on their fragile external reproductive organs. I mean, look what it did to Lance Armstrong.

:hide:
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Exactly
It's pretty clear how foolish that thinking is when it's applied the other way around.


Let them jump and watch them fly!
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Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. +5
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. We have a winnah!!!! nt
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hayu_lol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. No valid reason at all why women cannot compete in the...
jumps. If the 'old buzzards' could be convinced quickly, then training could begin immediately for the next winter Olympics.

If women want it, let it be so.
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Monk06 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #42
52. I think it was roids that did Lances stones in ............
:hide: :hide: :hide: :hide: :hide: :hide:
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Monk06 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
53. There is no reason for a division between men's and women's sports except that men do not want
Edited on Sun Feb-14-10 10:00 PM by Monk06
to lose to a women. Not in anything ... ever.

Hell the French don't even believe women can
cook and the Italians and French still believe
that sex is a skill taught by men to women for
the purpose of providing pleasure to men.

End it all unisex completion. To the winner go
the spoils. Go hard or go home. And yes I see
the irony.
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-14-10 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
56. SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM: Weight classes without regard to sex.
Ski width rigidly controlled.

Done. Poutrage eaten by the Simple Solution to Simple Problem Monster.

Next?
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-15-10 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #56
58. Yep, I've been thinking about this since yesterday..
and that's an obvious solution.

They do it for boxing.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-15-10 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #56
63. Weight classes is a good idea. But what's with the poutrage bit?
There have been some good ideas posted here and weight class, separate events, etc would all be valid ways to resolve this.
As Berry Cool did a great job of pointing out upthread, sometimes the simplest solution gets ignored when that's not the underlying reason for the issue.

And I just don't get how using "poutrage" contributes to the discussion in any thread.

Why did you feel the need to include that?
It really undercut what was a good suggestion by you by seeming to indicate you dont feel there's validity to discussing this topic.


:shrug:
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-15-10 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
59. I can very clearly see what the problem is....
They're afraid that menstruating women might spread their "cooties" around while they're flying through the air.

Menstruating women belong in little huts, segregated from the rest of the community.








adding :sarcasm: just in case....
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
66. This puts an extra nasty
Edited on Wed Feb-17-10 02:56 PM by DirkGently
taste in the mouth on this subject, I think:

So will the IOC approve women's ski jump for 2014? "We'll have to wait and see," IOC member Dick Pound said in an interview for an MSNBC.com documentary on women's ski jumping, Frozen Out of the Olympics. "If in the meantime you're making all kinds of allegations about the IOC and how it's discriminating on the basis of gender," he warned, "the IOC may say, 'Oh yeah, I remember them. They're the ones that embarrassed us and caused us a lot of trouble of trouble in Vancouver, maybe they should wait another four years or eight years.'"

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1963447,...

What a sweetheart. I'm all for giving people the benefit of the doubt, and I've read the claim that there are "hundreds of factors in play," but some of these Olympic Committee folks simply give off a distinct whiff of weasel. Combine this insanely nasty, threatening, power-deranged comment from Mr. Pound with that *horrible* "junior" start position they gave the women's lugers (after moving the men's start in response to the accident) and I do have to wonder if the real concern here is just a resistance to the possibility of having women's world records exceed men's world records.
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