Dems have reauthorization of Patriot Act incorporated

[dgibby]

in present Jobs Bill, according to Lawrence O'Donnell, speaking to Keith Obermann just now on Countdown. There are no words-----OMG!

[AndyA]

1. What the hell is wrong with the Democrats?

Truly, it seems they are all really just Republicans pretending to be Democrats except when they can sneak something by us.

:wtf:

This isn't the change I voted for! A continuation of Bush policies is NOT CHANGE!!

[dgibby]

2. I am gobsmacked!

Unfreakingbelievable! I don't get it, unless they think it'll get some repuke votes.

[ixion]

3. yeah, seems like they're always pulling that crap

:wtf:

[wroberts189]

4. I think most of us here ask that question to ourselves everyday. nt knr to OP

[Goldstein1984]

5. Our loss of civil liberties is one of the greatest challenges

we face right now. I consider it to be equal in importance and not disconnected with the corporatism overtaking democracy.

If my Democratic Senator, Mark Begich, votes in favor of any legislation containing reauthorization of USA Patriot, it will be the deciding factor in my vote to de-authorize Mark Begich when he next runs for re-election. I don't care how much pork he brings home otherwise.

I add that last bit because I'm sure, as with his support for the lousy Senate HCR bill, he'll be touting how many jobs and programs for Alaska the legislation support generates.

USA Patriot is a jobs program for Nazis.

[dgibby]

18. I agree.

The loss of Civil Liberties is pervasive, and sadly, most Americans either don't know or don't care or feel so helpless that they throw up their hands in despair and bury their heads in reality TV.

Speaking of reality tv, I'd love to see a program that exposes the govt. Maybe then we'd be able to educate the public.

[Echo In Light]

25. But..but...but...we have ELECTIONS (!!!) so our democracy is REAL!

"Rights aren't actually rights if they can be taken away. Think of them as temporary privileges." ~ George Carlin

[dgibby]

34. Gawd, I miss Carlin,

Mollie Ivans, Ann Richards, and now, Howard Zinn and Teddy Kennedy. The attrition rate on our side is devastating.

[Goldstein1984]

47. Chomsky won't be around forever, either

Those willing to speak "truth to Power" in the faces of those mindlessly parroting the party lines are disappearing.

[varelse]

6. Shouldn't have any problem getting Republicans to vote for it then, right?

:(

[WVRICK13]

7. I Am Now Convinced

we no longer have an elected government. Like 8 years of Bush shouldn't have convinced me. There is only one government left and it is of and by the wealthy. The amazing trick is they have the population divided and fighting for two sides of the same coin.

[PuraVidaDreamin]

8. The question is

how can we get the other half of the population to see what our so called leaders are really about?
There has got to be a way.

[WVRICK13]

11. A Good Question My Friend

I hate to sound like an alarmist. I have tried to rationalize that things really aren't as bad as I think, but I can no longer deny the facts. We are in the last years of anything even resembling a free government. I am serious when I ask how long we have before the only rights we have left are those in our heads. When will we no longer be allowed to leave the country without official permission. Maybe that is a moot point since we won't be able to afford travel at all. I understand the wealthy being happy at this point in time but in WV we have very poor people who are cheering the wealthy. They sport bumper stickers of the far right and loudly protest anything farther left than middle right. The scary thing is that they do this while asking for vouchers for the food pantry. WTF is wrong with people?

[dgibby]

14. I don't think you sound like an alarmist at all.

I'm from Va, near the WV line. I see the same there, as well as here in SC where I'm presently living.

The division is deep and wide, and the chasm is filled with vitriol. It will take a cataclysmic event to reunite the two sides.

The PTB have used neurolingustics to divide and conquer. By appealing to the reptilian brain of the authoritarians to instill fear of the "other", they have quite cleverly turned the far right against the rest of us. Case in point: the word "liberal" is now used as a club against us. When you seen signs/bumper stickers that proclaim that the "only good liberal is a dead liberal", the person welding that sign is serious. We are the enemy, and when the country dissolves into anarchy, we'll be the ones they'll come for, not the ruling class.

Another weapon being used to great success is religion. Nothing frightens me more than a religious zealot. The Dominionist movement in this country is just as detrimental as the Taliban, and they are determined to turn the US into a Theocracy. Their stated goal is to supplant the Constitution with Biblical Law. These are the people responsible for the destruction of the Republican Party, and they are making great inroads into the Democratic Party. Think Blue Dogs, DLC, etc.

I'm of the opinion that the ruling class may have opened Pandora's Box by getting the zealots fired up. I seriously doubt this group can be controlled to any real extent, and it will just be a matter of time before they turn on their masters.

I have come to the sad conclusion that we no longer have a Democracy/Representative Republic. It's an illusion, and is rapidly fading in the face of the Oligarchy that has usurped it. I never thought I'd welcome old age, but at 64, I'm glad I won't be around to witness the nightmare that this country will eventually become.

[WVRICK13]

20. Your Thoughts

are right on target. I am more afraid of domestic terrorists of the christian kind than I am of foreign or muslim terrorists. The American Taliban, under the control of far right christian leaders, is not a joke anymore.

[dgibby]

21. Exactly!

Every time I read that someone wants Sarah Palin to run, I cringe. We keep underestimating our enemies, to our own peril. We dismiss them as being intellectually inferior, thereby dismissing them as irrelevant. Unfortunately, they are merely the puppets, not the puppet masters.

I'm convinced Jim DeMint is going to make a run for the WH. The fact that he is to the right of Attila the Hun and a member of the Family who lives at C Street makes him a double threat. Given that he has wealthy influential friends in very high places doesn't help. I just posted about him in another thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=517113&mesg_id=517154

He will be a force to be reckoned with, especially if he teams up with sister Sarah.

[Goldstein1984]

37. Agreed

Elections have become mere formalities, easily negotiated with money and marketing. Those that aren't bought and paid for by the time they are elected are easily purchased upon arrival in Washington. The very few who stick by their principles are invalidated and treated like kooks.

Something very bad is looming.

[dgibby]

43. I fear this will not end well,

especially for those of us on the Left. No doubt the post office wall will be full of wanted posters with our names and faces on them one day.

[Goldstein1984]

45. Yes, I can see the headline in the Anchorage Daily News...

"Suspected Terrorist Killed in Drone Attack"

and...

"In addition to firearms and a stockpile of ammunition found in a closet, the suspect's library contained biographies and the subversive literature of known terrorists like Simon Bolivar, Fidel Castro, Che Guevara, and Thomas Jefferson.

[Goldstein1984]

30. Eventually...

poverty and subjection to a fascist state will unite us all.

[dgibby]

32. Yes, but how many of us will die in the process?n/t

[Goldstein1984]

39. A lot of us will die in the process

Especially if we turn on each other before we realize that we all have a common enemy.

The path we are on leads to civil war. The path we need to be on leads to revolution.

I believe there is still time to reclaim democracy without violence. However, John F. Kennedy said, and Martin Luther King quoted him: "Those who make nonviolent revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable." I fear that those citizens who remain freedom-loving are on a collision course with a government creating increasingly restrictive legislation and broad interpretations of the government's power to enforce them. The lines between crime, terrorism and war have been blurred; citizens are now subject to military action and "justice;" police forces are increasingly militarized; the very methods of dissent our government encourages in places like Tehran are suppressed in the Homeland (e.g. the G20 Summit in Pittsburgh).

[dgibby]

12. I'm just waiting until the American Eagle

is replaced by a vulture. The 2 parties are just wings of the same bird, the head being Wall Street. We are soooo screwn, especially after the SCOTUS ruling.

[Fumesucker]

27. Not a vulture, a vampire bat.. sucking the lifeblood out of us.. n/t

[dgibby]

28. Good point! n/t

[inna]

56. +1. Exactly. nt

[TankLV]

9. Oh - but see - we have CUTE KENNEDY DOGGIES and CUTE CHIDREN!!!

Don't you see the CHANGE?!!!

This is what I'm talking about when the idiots all list his "accomplishments" and they're nothing but WINDOW DRESSING...while the IMPORTANT STUFF is KILLING US - LITERALLY!!!

[StreetKnowledge]

10. Seriously?

Crap, who is doing shit like this?

[G_j]

13. surprise, surprise!

NOT


very predictable

[TransitJohn]

15. It's a Chess Move®

:sarcasm:

[Subdivisions]

38. Be sarcastic all you like. This is actually an ingenious Chess Move ®

Are the republican'ts going to vote against this bill knowing they'll be voting against an extension of the Patriot Act?

Edited to add: As Robb says here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7689374&mesg_id=7693213

[lonestarnot]

16. Any questions about what we've lost now?

[dgibby]

19. I never had any questions, just profound sadness.n/t

[branders seine]

17. When in the course of human events...

[Mari333]

22. fuckers. knr

[Hell Hath No Fury]

24. What she said.

:applause:

[Echo In Light]

23. Thanks, a-hole enablers! Phony 'oppositional' party.

[G_j]

26. so now any Dem who opposes the bill is in bed w/ the Rs

and has a place reserved under the bus.

sounds very familiar

[dgibby]

31. The Patriot Act

is,imo,one of the most unamerican POS ever passed. Why any true Democrat would include it in any bill is beyond me. Whoever said, "We don't need a Patriot Act, we need to act like patriots" was exactly right.

[QC]

29. How very, very hopeful and changealicious! n/t

[Individualist]

33. Sickening but not surprising.

Are people never going to realize that New Democrats/DLC support and promote republican policies? :banghead:

[Robb]

35. Oh, FFS. It extends it for one year. There's a reason for that.

Republicans can't vote against this bill because PATRIOT's in it now. But in one year it'll be up for renewal all on its own.

Meanwhile, this bill extends unemployment payments for those whose benefits have run out, and creates a massive subsidy program to help the jobless continue paying for health insurance.

Still want to kill the jobs bill? :eyes:

[dgibby]

40. Did I say I wanted to kill the jobs bill?

No. I said I'm gob smacked that Dems would include the renewal of the Patriot Act in the jobs bill. Please don't infer something that is not there. I also said that it might have been included to get Republicans to vote FOR it.

We desperately need a good jobs bill. I've been assisting 2 families and several individuals due to under/unemployment and/or lack of adequate health insurance, and I'm on a fixed income.

As for the Patriot Act, you're right about it coming up for renewal next year; however, I've seen NOTHING coming from this Congress or this ADMIN that would indicate that there would be ANY opposition to it's renewal, and that's what concerns me.

[Robb]

42. I apologize; I put words in your mouth.

But I don't think the Patriot Act would survive a challenge on its own. I think that's the idea here, get it in THIS bill that NEEDS passing so the GOP can't vote against it, then fight PATRIOT from a position of strength in a year. IMO.

[dgibby]

44. Thanks!

I hope with all my heart that you're right and I'm wrong, but I'm definitely not feeling very good about this.

[Posteritatis]

53. It'll be renewed then too, so I'm not sure it matters much. (nt)

[asdjrocky]

36. Anyone here still think the Dems are on the side of the people?

[dgibby]

41. Just the Corporate People,

or so it would appear. I do hope they prove me wrong.

[Freddie Stubbs]

51. Yes

[asdjrocky]

52. Lol, good luck with that then. nt

[dgibby]

46. Joanne98 has just posted more info re: Jobs Bill

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x178698

This is NOT good!

[Babel_17]

49. You beat me to it.

I didn't click the link till after I made my post.

[dgibby]

50. No problem. It bears repeating!.

I linked this thread over in her thread, too. I'm very impressed by the thoughtful responses here. This is what I love about DU. I always learn so much.

[Babel_17]

48. Hundreds of billions for what Republicans want?

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/02/the_senate_finance_committees.html

"In other words, in order to get Republic cooperation on an $80 billion jobs bill, Democrats have promised them estate and gift tax reform, which will come to many hundreds of billions of dollars. This is the compromise that appears to have led to this package: not a better or bigger or more tax-focused jobs bill, but massive tax cuts for the rich.

Tell me again why Democrats are bothering with a bipartisan jobs bill rather than running the legislation through reconciliation?"

Is this the same bill?

A jobs bill with The Patriot Act renewal and tax cuts for the wealthy?

I know we're a minority party and have to ...., oh wait.

[dgibby]

54. Looks like Harry Reid has reined in Big Max!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x178887

I didn't know he had it in him!

[inna]

55. They snuck it into the Jobs bill??

Jesus. :crazy:

:banghead:

[dgibby]

57. Yep! You can thank DiFi for that one.

The only reason I can think of is to put the repukes in a box by making them look unpatriotic if they vote against it. At least I'm hoping that's why she did it, but I still don't like it.