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Ronald Reagan was the worst president in our History

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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:12 AM
Original message
Ronald Reagan was the worst president in our History
Yes, he was worse than all the rest because his legacy of deficit spending and amassing of national debt to this day is crushing our ability to deal with the short-term and long-term world crisis. Bush I and Clinton both tried to get Reagan's deficit down, Clinton with with some success only to have Bush II add even more shit to the pile. Even today, much of our national budget goes to servicing Reagan's debt and reassuring our debtors. For the past 25 years we have continued to pay perhaps hundreds of billions just in interest because Reagan decided the wealthy shouldn't have to pay so much in taxes. Those tax cuts for the wealthy were simply passed on to all the rest of us with the crippling debt they created and may take decades or even a century for you and I to pay off. When it's all said and done Reagan's debt and all the interest we have had to pay on that debt could add up into the tens of trillions. It's not much different than a poor person running up their credit card to $10,000 and then only paying $10 a month to pay it off because that is all he has left to pay on the card. By the end of the poor person's life he may end up paying the credit card company $100,000 or more for a $10,000 loan. Think of Reagan and Bush II's debt as being on your current credit card statement even though it doesn't show up, because the fact is we will be paying for it out of our own pockets probably for the rest of our lives.

Keep in mind the so-called Reagan boom was in fact a rather middling episode of economic growth. The economy grew much more slowly in the 1980s than during the 1960s, more slowly than the postwar average of 3.6% annual growth, and no faster than in the 1970s or the 1990s. This is absolutely terrible when you think of all the debt he saddled upon us. We got no bang for one hell of a lot of bucks that we are still fucking paying for! Clearly the tax cuts had very little impact on stimulating the economy. Most of the other economic numbers from the 80's were below par compared to other decades. In a nut shell, if you did a cost benefit analysis of Reagan's economic policies he would get not just an F but a ZERO because he did much more damage than good.

Another dandy was Reagan's deregulations which lead to to our current economic crisis as pandora's box was opened and the the great corporate beast was let lose to begin dismantling anything pure in our financial system. And due to Reagan's deregulation of the media, they have become a significant anti-democratic force in the United States and, to varying degrees, worldwide. The wealthier and more powerful the corporate media giants have become, the poorer the prospects for participatory democracy. We can also thank Clinton for part of this mess.

These are just a few dandy parts of Reagan's Democratic, monetary recking ball. The list is a mile long. The sad fact is this country may never recover from what Reagan started. Bush II was a disaster but he was just the icing on Ronald Reagan's rotten fruit cake left to us all.

This stuff needs to be said a million times! The American people need to know the truth about Reagan. He was no great president, he was a colossal disaster to this country.

Feel free to add to the list.



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EmeraldCityGrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
1. K&R
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stopbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
162. Agreed. Reagan should be mentioned in the same breath with Hoover.
Until the country figures that out his rotten legacy will continue to plague us.
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husky92 Donating Member (130 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
191. Win One for the Kipper
It's nice to see Reagan exposed. You listen to all the right wingers and they get all misty eyed when talking about Reagan. They loved him because he was there when the commies packed it in in Eastern Europe and the Rights didn't have them to kick around any more. It was all because of Reagan they'll tell you. I've seen his economic policies in several places and you are correct, he amassed a large debt. He took care of his rich buddies and basically shit on every union. That is probably why Republicans hate unions because their so-called hero Reagan hated them. I always laugh when the right blasts unions, especially people who would benefit from them. I live in the south and these morons down here are happy making $5.25 an hour as long as there aren't any unions involved. Their Republican "friends" feed them a line of crap that they take hook, line and sinker. If Obama or a Democrat tried to encourage unions to help them they'd turn their noses up at it because Rush tells them to. Maybe down the road more truths about Reagan will come out. I still find him disgusting for what he did to the hostages in Iran. How about we hold them a few weeks longer so I can win the election. He basically said F*#@ You to them.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
235. The Worst Part about Reagan is how many DEMS look up to him. He popularized RW ideas.
And made them "moderate and centrist" for people who describe themselves as "moderate and centrist".

Ideas like saying Katrina was the best thing that ever happened to Poor People because it allowed us do divorce ourselves from them and tear down those awful, failing schools and public housing, thereby "changing the face of the city". Which is now the mantra of urban Dems and Reps nationwide.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
2. Bush was dangerous AND dangerously incompetent
but honestly that's splitting hairs.


Reagan was a disaster for this country.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
3. he made idiocy and greed fashionable
that was his biggest crime of all
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Ignoring the AIDs epidemic and exporting torture to Central America are right up there.
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Ardent15 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #4
48. +1
nt
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Gordon Gekko was simply a metaphor of Reaganomics
Edited on Sun Jan-31-10 01:31 AM by Quixote1818
Your exactly right.
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PufPuf23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Gordon Gekko was based upon Ivan Boetsky
a pal of Michael Milken of Drexel Lambert, the junk bond king.

In 1985 he said "Greed is Good" in a lecture in 155 Dwinelle at UC Berkeley and soon thereafter on one of the late night shows, IIRC Johnny Carson.

He was Haas School of Business graduation speaker in the Greek Theatre in 1986 but did not say "Greed is good" as in the movie Wall Street.

Their crimes took them and others down and prisoned but KKR are still existing as vulture capitalists
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
145. Didn't Milton Friedman also say "Greed is Good"? nt
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PufPuf23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #145
157. I am sure the Chicago school are the same in spirit
but the movie Wall Street was specifically to the personage of Ivan B.

"The character of Gordon Gekko in the 1987 movie Wall Street is based at least in part on Boesky, especially regarding a famous speech he delivered on the positive aspects of greed at the University of California, Berkeley in 1986, where he said in part "I think greed is healthy. You can be greedy and still feel good about yourself".<8> "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Boesky

(I am a 1987 Haas MBA; Scott Adams that does Dilbert was in my class, there are many paths in life)


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mudplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
72. In a discussion about whether to put sanctions on South Africa to pressure
it to end Apartheid, reagan said, "Oh, it's not so bad there. They don't have segregated lunch counters and things like that."

According to reagan, if we didn't finance the murder of over a quarter of a million unarmed people in El Salvador and Nicaragua the Russians would soon be in Brownsville.

My own theory is that statan's spirit flits from body to body as it needs, in reagan's body it resided for well over fifty years, where it found it could cause the most damage to humanity and god's hopes for Man.

Actually, though, reagan had to have help to do what he did. Americans voted him into power over and over again. Reagan is a good example that Man doesn't require supernatural forces to be evil, he can do alright all by his ownself.
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Flying Dream Blues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-01-10 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #72
222. I'd say it's hard to believe he was
such a nitwit (apartheid isn't that bad) except * came along and made him look like Albert Einstein. I think if we had had the internet during the Reagan years we might not have had to deal with him for eight years. The MSM coverage was really slick, glossed over everything bad and made him look like some kind of shining James Stewart-esque man of the people. Sickening, really. Lots of good people were sucked in by that guy.
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katandmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
6. K&R Agreed 100%.
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pnorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
7. K & R!
n/t
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:12 AM
Response to Original message
8. He's an interesting lesson, though
As far as the general population is concerned, good advertising trumps a good product.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
87. +1
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #8
131. +1
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Flying Dream Blues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-01-10 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
223. Sarah Palin, anyone? Lots are still buying the soap. nt
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:18 AM
Response to Original message
10. What I hate about Reagan the most is that he hated unions and he pushed for a service economy
which has the beginning of the end for the working class. :grr:
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 05:56 AM
Response to Reply #10
21. Yarp. ANY economy that relies on financial institutions as it's rock is destined to fail.
Would you put your trust in, by all rights, a glorified casino where the house almost always wins?

For the past 28 years, the economy has been primarily built on war/defense, pharmaceuticals, insurance, debt investment, technology and risky financial instruments; with the exception of technology, all unstable, speculative sectors and concentrate wealth and security on the top of the chain.

All of the easily led angry white men and nervous women out there were too busy buying that "Democrats = COMM'NISM"/"Reds Undah th' Bed" bullshit. "Thet guy with the Gumby har on TV sez if I vote Democrat, that's as good as lettin' the secund Bolshuhvik rev'lution in. WHUT will muh neighbors think if I did that?" Then for the next 30 years, they were either too scared or too stupid (or both) to realize that all of their jobs were being shipped overseas and all of their tax dollars were either siphoned off to corporations or used to build a war machine that only invaded and not defended. Just like corporate America, "peacetime" militaries can't just get paid and funded to run drills. They gotta do SOMETHING, so why not bomb small sovereign nations that did nothing to us?

The Republicans who ran this country straight into a chasm, in all of their furious energy to compartmentalize and cheapen business, kind of forgot the notion of replacement. They never replaced the resources they gutted. They never replaced the occupations/careers they destroyed. They never wanted to update the factories to accommodate new technologies. That was never part of their plan.

They didn't care about infrastructure, health care, education or social safety nets, because it didn't represent direct profits to THEM. Since they don't see direct benefit to raising our wages, they've stagnated them for three decades straight.

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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #21
190. HB, you are right... and if I could add anything to that, it would be...
that Ronald Ray-gun also did his level best to bust apart the union movement and make sure that middle class wages went out with them!

Right on, Hugh.
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ThomThom Donating Member (752 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
125. even after he was Pres. of the screen actors guild
in the end he was just like George II, a mindless fool
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
142. And he'd been a shop-steward himself, hadn't he?
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PufPuf23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:29 AM
Response to Original message
11. Ronald Reagan puke
I was an undergraduate at Cal when Reagan was governator and UC was evil to him.

I was a professional federal employee -- actually paid as a GS-9 and GS-11 to go to grad school after a Cal BS -- and resigned during the Reagan's term as POTUS based upon Reagan policy and the date I could resign wo/ owing for the education -- Reagan declared war on and made a mockery on a functioning and forward looking federal agency and gifted gigantic and short-sighted corporate give aways from public ownership.

I never understood one part of my Dad -- an 8th grade grad who came of age during the Depression and WWII volunteer vet Democrat that worshipped FDR (two of my three names are the same as FDR) -- yet he turned into a Reagan Democrat and even Bush I and Dole before he passed away in 1996. He wasn't a racist; he lived his entire life as a minority in a community with Indian majority. We used to argue over Reagan.

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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:45 AM
Response to Original message
12. Agreed & Well Said
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Hawaii Hiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
13. Totally agree (must read article enclosed)
http://www.g21.net/amdream79.html

Don't forget under RR, the rr (religious right) came into power....

Also, Reagan appointed Scalia to the SCOTUS, tried to appoint Bork, who thankfully was defeated...

He spent countless millions on the stupid Meese Commission to study the effects of pornography?....The kooks behind the study were far right social conservative nutcases with an agenda...

Under Reagan, it became fashionable to absolutely hate poor people...

Ronald Reagan was a horrible president, & an even worse person...
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Holy Moly Donating Member (86 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
168. patriotism
"Under Reagan, it became fashionable to absolutely hate poor people...""

Actually, He made it more than
just fashionable, He made it
super patriotic... the patriotic duty
of every proud red blooded amerikan to
adore only the USs and hate all the THEMs.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 03:10 AM
Response to Original message
14. Reagan was the worst b/c of PROPAGANDA which is why the "Trajectory" thread at the top
of Greatest on DU is a real shame. Shows how much education would need to be done to correct the record ............................
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andym Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 03:42 AM
Response to Original message
15. Reagan helped move the country so far right on economic issues that some 70s' Republicans would be
Edited on Sun Jan-31-10 03:43 AM by andym
considered far left today. The strong anti-government sentiment of the 80s, 90's and 00's can be laid at his feet.
40% of the public self-identifying as conservatives is due to his legacy. It makes it difficult to get progressive ideas passed. In some sense, this is why it is so difficult to get real progressive legislation like single-payer. The country needs to be pulled leftward.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
77. You didn't mention the whole of it
Reagan moved this country so far right, if Barry Goldwater and Richard Nixon were alive today they'd both be considered moderately left-of-center Democrats.

In the Year of His Noodly Goodness 2010, every member of the Blue Dog Democrats is to the right of Barry Goldwater--and in his day he was considered as far right as you could get without needing sheets.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #77
94. +1
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #77
154. Do Blue Dogs oppose the Civil Rights Act of 1964 like Barry Goldwater did?
Barry Goldwater in the 1980's was very different than Barry Goldwater in 1964. He moved to the left (or at least more in a libertarian direction) because he was concerned about the rise of the religious wrong. He also supported cutting off all funding for the UN and other nonsense.

It is true that the times have changed in the sense that Barry Goldwater won about 40% of the vote and now equally conservative candidates can win in a landslide in this country. But Barry Goldwater conservatism isn't today's liberalism by any means.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #154
167. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was the only civil rights legislation Goldwater opposed
This is the electoral map for the 1964 election...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ElectoralCollege1964....

In quite a bit of the US, "in your guts, you know he's nuts" and the Daisy ad killed Goldwater's chances of getting elected, but in NC, Arkansas, Tennessee, Florida, Oklahoma and Texas, Johnson divulging Goldwater's full voting record on civil rights caused him to lose those states. I would not be surprised to find at least a couple Blue Dogs who oppose the 1964 Civil Rights Act on the same grounds Goldwater did--that it was a states rights violation. (He also thought the act interfered with the rights of private citizens to conduct business with whoever they please.)

Barry Goldwater was also responsible for there being a mental health care system in Alaska, among other things.

I don't know. The guy was very, very far to the right for the 1950s and 1960s, but compared to Reagan and the Bushes he was okay.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #167
169. Name some blue dogs who oppose the Civil Rights Act of 1964
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-01-10 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #169
216. Who would admit that?
No one today would publicly admit to opposing the Civil Rights Act of 1964, but some Blue Dogs are States Rights people, so I feel confident that if you tried writing that bill today the Blue Dogs would hate it. "Yes, civil rights are a good idea BUT!"
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-01-10 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #216
219. The Voting Rights Act of '65 was up for re-authorization in 2006
Edited on Mon Feb-01-10 03:25 PM by Hippo_Tron
There wasn't a single Democrat who opposed re-authorizing it (as I recall). There were however a lot of Republicans that did and Hastert had to break the "majority of the majority" rule to avoid the political embarrassment that would've come with not renewing the act. So yes I bet you could get a few Republicans to go on the record as opposing the Civil Rights Act. I doubt you could find a Democrat (other than possibly Zell Miller) that would.
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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #15
91. Funny what you say about the 70's Republicans. I was watching.........
..........one of those political roundtables (you know the drill) with supposedly half conservatives and half "liberals" about 2 or 3 months ago (can't even remember the show or who was on it) when one of the guests said half jokingly that the last liberal President was Nixon. At first I thought what the hell, then I realized the sarcasm he was using. Stop and think about it, even if you only count the 2 Dem Presidents since Nixon (Carter & Clinton) it's true.
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Boudica the Lyoness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 04:15 AM
Response to Original message
16. Fairness Doctrine
The bastard did away with it.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #16
86. Yep, and there are many here who can't understand what a huge change THAT brought
to our Country, socially and politically. If they don't like having corporations in direct control of our politicians, then why do they approve of corporations having direct control of speech on our air waves?
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Union Yes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #86
122. I'm one who understands =) ...
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Union Yes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
123. ..
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Betty Karlson Donating Member (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 05:15 AM
Response to Original message
17. Can we please add Iran/Contra to the list?
Comparing a right-wing rebels' organisation to the founding fathers,
Being denied the money to fund them, by congress,

Mr Reagan just cut a deal with another oppressive rgime, this time Iran,

Selling them weapons to oppress their opposition,

Just so he could, behind the back of congress, fund the people who wanted to overthrow government and democracy closer to home.
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onethatcares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 05:21 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. add Grenada while you're at it.
the typical feel good invasion of a school.
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Betty Karlson Donating Member (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 05:28 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Indeed. Thank you for the addition. N/T
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
74. He had a good excuse for Grenada
On October 23, 1983, Hezbollah suicide bombers struck the barracks in Beirut housing the US Marine Corps element of the Multinational Force in Lebanon. The attack was rated as the worst single-day death toll for the Marines since Iwo Jima, the worst single-day death toll on US forces since the first day of the Tet Offensive and the worst attack on Americans stationed overseas since World War II. Reagan was told to quarter the Marines on a ship parked offshore and use Amtraks to bring them to work; he refused because he wanted to show American strength in Lebanon. He was told to allow the Marines to carry loaded weapons; he refused since we weren't supposed to be at war, even though Lebanon was full of terrorists--they had Muslim AND Christian groups, and still do. The total security force for the American barracks was two jarheads at the gate with unloaded rifles. By the time they were able to load their rifles to shoot the driver, the attacker was inside the building...where he was able to set off the equivalent of six tons of TNT. The blast was able to pick the entire building off the ground--no mean feat when you're dealing with a four-story building.

Operation Urgent Fury, the US invasion of Grenada, started on October 25, 1983.

Put two and two together: We invaded Grenada to make the American people temporarily forget Reagan's monumental fuckup in Lebanon.
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onethatcares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #74
85. thank you for putting it in context.
I will save your comment for later use, if you grant permission for me to do so.

In fact, I'm gonna use it in short order, is that ok with you?

Peace
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #85
107. It's fine with me
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ChadwickHenryWard Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #74
92. How does that constitute a good excuse?
Killing people so that we forget about how many people just got killed? I'm not following that logic.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #92
115. I didn't think the sarcasm tag was necessary
I think Reagan decided this situation called for a really futile and stupid gesture on someone's part or he'd be impeached for killing a couple hundred Marines.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q47bpOCTcaY

If we would have impeached Reagan after Beirut, we wouldn't have had Iran-Contra and a lot of other atrocities.
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #17
42. and dismantling the FCC, so corporate monsters could own ALL media...
instead of the old days when ownership was limited and plenty of views on news were available, things have changed and now a few power brokers control ALL media and tell us how to think.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #17
50. And Iran-Contra was the seed bed for the torture president's administration.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #17
96. Everyone's a founding father. Don't forget these folks.
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Betty Karlson Donating Member (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-01-10 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #96
214. O my goodness; yes!
Can you remember the title of that infamous James Bond movie where the protagonist introduces some Afghani Talib people to his lust object?

"These men are freedom fighters."

From Reagan's lips to your script, Mr Bond!
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 05:20 AM
Response to Original message
18. I don't know
I used to think Nixon was the worst, then came Reagan and I had to re-assess. Then came GW Bush and I had to reconsider again.

It is quite clear that Reagan established the course for the bus GW Bush drove over the cliff. It is also clear that GW Bush had some notion of where we were going and stepped on the accelerator regardless.

While I do agree that the tax cut, deficits, and transfer of the burden onto the middle class by way of the doubled payroll tax was destructively stupid and intentional, I found Reagan's support of abusive right wing dictators most objectionable, with his massive and pointless military build up coming in a close second.

To Reagan's credit, many of his economic "ideas" had not been tried in a very long time, and it is at least possible that he did not know how badly they would fail in advance. However, in the case of GWB, the data on failure was in, and he did it anyway.

To me, it is still a close match.
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RFKHumphreyObama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 06:10 AM
Response to Original message
22. You've only scratched the surface with Reagan
Edited on Sun Jan-31-10 06:10 AM by RFKHumphreyObama
Civil rights, his AIDS policy, the environment, the abolition of the Fairness Doctrine -where to even begin? I think a lot of the decline in almost every sector of American political and public policy can be traced back to the impact of his presidency. I think it will only get worse as the "Reagan generation" -people born during or after the Reagan era or who came of age during time who have never known anything better than the status quo that he put in place -assume positions of power and influence in society. I'm already some of it coming into effect in terms of the quality of journalistic reporting in the MSM

And it's funny how Ted Kennedy gets all the blame for "politicizing" the judicial nominees process because of the great work he did in exposing Robert Bork for the racist, morally bankrupt creep he was. But Reagan never gets any of the blame for nominating such terrible appointments in the first place

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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 06:17 AM
Response to Original message
23. Reagan was indeed a disaster for this nation...
but no one can beat bush as the worst president. While Reagan carved the road to disaster; bush paved it. I cannot think of a president worse than bush...Reagan is a close second, but bush was such an utter failure, I'm actually somewhat surprised we survived at all.
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WVRICK13 Donating Member (930 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 06:17 AM
Response to Original message
24. Bush Reagan Tied for First Place
It is kind of hard to say which was worse. It would be like asking would you rather be shot by the enemy or by friendly fire.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #24
205. Reagan laid the ground work and bush, with the help of 911, used steroids to destroy us. nt
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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 07:02 AM
Response to Original message
25. without Reagan
Bush would have been a joke candidate who never would have made President. I'd agree that he was the worst you ever had. Although, much like Bush it had little to do with him. He was a potato head B grade actor who was simply a handy charismatic puppet for those who really pulled his strings.

"His" actions in South America still make me sick to my stomach.
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Frank Cannon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. You know, I was all set to argue that GWB was the absolute worst
I figured that Reagan didn't really know what he was doing, so maybe he at least meant well. Dubya, on the other hand, had no excuses and, in my opinion, actively meant to destroy this country to enrich his global friends and masters.

But, then, you just reminded me that without Ronald Reagan, there never would have been a Dubya in the White House. So RR "wins" the distinction of worst just on the basis of that.
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #25
43. Thats true and guys like Donald Regan were pulling the strings. nt
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
26. When his administration stole the social security fund
to balance his budget I knew he was a crook.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #26
71. Talk about the boondoggle of the century...
and they are still doing it!

SS would be solvent for decades if they had not looted the fund to make sure their buddies got the cuts they thought they "deserved".

For all of the talk of the old bastard "despising socialism", I never heard of him returning any of the checks he and Stick Woman ever got.It's the same for all of these RW batards...if they hate SS so badly, why are they taking the benefits? It's all about the other guy taking advantage of the "system"... :grr:
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iceman66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
27. You make a lot of good points, but I still think GWB is worse.
Based on sheer incompetence plus the fact that he started two unnecessary wars.
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tilsammans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
28. People still don't get it about Reagan and . . .
. . . how his presidency set us on the road to ruin. :shrug: They want to see him on Mt. Rushmore, for God's sake.

It's a real shame.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #28
76. I had a pic of him on my toilet seat...
If I could have found one that would have taken water, I would have put it on the bottom... :evilgrin:
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igfoth Donating Member (77 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
29. Rancid Ronnie was the worst
and set the bar so low I never thought anyone could ever lower the bar any lower and up steps da Chimp with the assist by the Gang of 5.
When both Rancid Ronnie and both Bush's were in power I would tell people I was Canadian, I was was to embarrassed to admit I was an American.
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Cary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
31. As much as I dislike Reagan, ...
and that's substantial, I don't think this is entirely fair. Deregulation and tight money started with Carter.

The "conservative" pathology is more deeper and more insidious than the parts you can attribute to Reagan, and he was nowhere near as bad as George W. Bush. He might have been if he had control of Congress the way Bush did. However I would have to grade Reagan as just below average and mediocre.
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digidigido Donating Member (553 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #31
51. Please be specific.
I've always remembered Carter to be ethical and farsighted in all
that he did. Perhaps a little politically naive, and a bit gentle
when he should have been firmer, but always a Democrat.
Where did he begin deregulation? In terms of tight money, that was
a place where he was responding, rather then being proactive. There
was an oil crisis, inflation was high, interest rates were in double
digits, there wasn't a hell of a lot of wiggle room for him to do much
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Cary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #51
55. These were all policies initiated by Carter and his inflation Czar.
His inflation Czar was an MIT economist named Alfred Kahn.

I'm not knocking Carter. That was the economic thought of the day and it was most probably the correct way to deal with inflation. Alfred Kahn was my favorite economics professor's favorite economic professor and he spoke to us at the University of Illinois in 1982. He wasn't all that enamored with Reagan's intellect either, but that's another story.

Simply Google "Carter deregulation" and you will find a lot of entries.
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #55
100. Deregulation and tight money may have started under Carter, but...
...it was Reagan who strapped rocket boosters to them and entrenched them into the politico-economic landscape.

For Carter they were tools and tactics. For Reagan/Bush they were a policy priority, and treated like a law of nature.
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Cary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-01-10 05:12 AM
Response to Reply #100
212. Don't forget more war and tax cuts for the rich.
Huge deficits. He tripled the deficit.
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-01-10 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #212
213. He tripled the _debt_
Gross national debt in 1981 $994,828,000,000
Gross national debt in 1989 $2,867,800,000,000


http://zfacts.com/p/480.html
Page with chart last modified: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 21:59:24 GMT
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Cary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-01-10 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #213
217. I stand corrected.
Actually I knew that but something in me couldn't get myself to say that. Reagan was atrocious. He was a scourge.
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DisgustedInMN Donating Member (956 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
32. Raygun Ronnie planted the poison..
.. seeds that flowered under Bush2 the Idiot.
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Itchinjim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
33. I'll say it until the day I die;
Fuck Reagan.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
34. Second worst to W.
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Demoiselle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #34
75. Agreed, Vidar.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
35. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
36. bush 2 was worse.....
bush did`t have Alzheimer's during his presidency. reagan/bush1 policies could have been reversed under clinton but he finished what reagan and bush 1 did`t.
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Holy Moly Donating Member (86 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #36
173. and in many ways, obama...
Edited on Sun Jan-31-10 07:32 PM by Holy Moly
and in too many ways,
obama is dutifully finishing
what his secret hero bush2 did't finish...
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
37. Not only that
Saint Ronnie also increased the employee FICA contributions to fund the massive tax cuts. And where are these employee contributions today? Oh, they've gone to fund three wars and more tax cuts for the wealthy. We are told Social Security is full of nothing but I.O.U.s

Reagan was the worst, even worse than W Bush-pitiful son. But only because Ronnie started with a country that was not yet ruined and proceeded to destroy it.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #37
99. +1
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
39. Bush really followed the Reagan model, president as entertainment/
concept. W was possibly the second worst in history - he added the fundamentalist lack of concern for human beings and the idea that god would fix all our problems without our assistance. He took the Reagan lack of responsibility much farther out, into near insanity, with unfunded wars, huge mountains of debt and total unconcern with the country of citizens wellbeing.

The two most destructive, uncaring human beings ever to become President - so far, anyway.

mark
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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #39
98. And you know that's the scary part, "So far, anyway".
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #98
109. Look at the GOP's potential future candidates - make W look like
a day at the beach.
Common denominators: Stupid, "religious" mania/magical ideology and all convinced they are absolutely RIGHT!!!

Democrats, do not let these folks get into the WH...absolutely DO NOT!!!


mark
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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #109
116. Yep. We both could "name names" but I don't know about you..........
......but I don't want to be typing for an hour.
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #116
198. ....and I don't want all those names in my head, either....nt
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
40. K&R
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
41. When the bells rang and that man was sworn in I cried.
No kidding, I was walking up the road in Morgantown, WV and Reagan was being sworn in. You may have forgot the Hostages in Iran at that time and his complicity in holding them captive. When their plane left the runway, just 20 minutes after Ronnie took the oath of office, church bells all around the country rang out - and call me what you will but a tear came to my eye. Just like Bush II, it was that obvious what was coming.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
44. He certainly did the most damage. n/t
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11 Bravo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
45. He's certainly on the short list.
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Mr Rabble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
46. Condemned by the World Court. Always impressive.
Reagan has the distinction of being the only US President to be condemned for international terrorism.
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #46
180. Really? When was that, and in which case was he condemned?
You say 'world court'. Is that a UN institution? Is it widely recognized?
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-01-10 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #180
233. I do remember that in an interview with McBride
Amnesty International, Reagan was considered one of the bloodiest presidents-of course, that was before * got appointed.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
47. Bush 43 - worst. Nixon - #2. Reagan - #3
Bush is the obvious worst. Nixon destroyed our faith in the presidency. And Reagan destroyed our economy. What Reagan did was especially evil because he was dead before we realized how badly his policies had screwed the country.

But I still say Dubya was worst.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #47
89. Reagan- worst, Bush 43 #2, Nixon #3
Nixon was downright Progressive by today's standards. Clean Air act, endangered species act, etc. Reagan overturned the Fairness doctrine, which allowed corporations and the media to muzzle liberals, and "turned the bull loose" by deregulating corporations, which laid the foundation for all of the problems that we have today. Bush 43 was only a continuation of the NeoCon plan that had been set into action during the Reagan years.
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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #89
164. agreed
Reagan laid the groundwork for the idiot tool, and Nixon seems a sane intellectual compared to the idiot tool.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #47
106. I think Reagan is worse because Junior could never have dreamed all that up
without a model to follow and build on.

But that should be our theme for the 2011 Raygun Memorial: "Was Raygun better or worse than Junior the torture president?" lol
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #106
126. I picked Dubya cause he is so freakin incompetent
and was utterly unqualified for the job. And the war.
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Ardent15 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
49. Reagan began the "War on Unions"
So fuck him for that.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #49
53. Didn't he begin that when he was the president of the Actor's Screen Guild?
He was always a corrupt mofo.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #49
90. He also unleashed the war on Liberalism by overturning the Fairness Doctrine
and allowing corporations to choose who gets heard.
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
52. Raygun's firing of 16,000 air traffic controllers
started the ball rolling after capitalizing on the release of Iranian embassy hostages, orchestrated to upstage Carter while being sworn in (as I remember it well, shown via split screen on inauguration day 1980).

In another thread (on LBN), I said the following:

If you look at the top tax rates through to the last change in 2003, you can track that to what preceded and triggered the "great depression" and this current "great recession".

In 1988, the lowest bracket (11%) was RAISED to 15% in order to underhandedly justify taking the highest rate (at the time recently dropped from 50% to 38.5%) down to 28%. Raygun's original goal was to eventually go to 25% flat tax. This idiocy eventually forced Poppy to have to finally raise the top rate back up a bit to 31%, as the race to gouge the bottom hadn't brought in enough revenue. Spending billions and billions over the last 3 decades on folly wars meant the gutting of the domestic agencies that protected U.S. citizens from toxic toys, contaminated food and water, and crumbling infrastructure, thus justifying the rightwing lunatic fringe meme about how government "doesn't work".

In September 2006, for the first time in history, all 400 (and more) of the Forbes 400 were billionaires, underscoring how far askew the regressive tax policies had gone. A mere 6 months later in March 2007, there were nearly 1000. By 2008, the number topped 1100.

When you have the 2nd wealthiest man in the world admitting (and insisting) that he and his compatriots should be paying more taxes, then something has gone terribly wrong. Warren Buffet doesn't have to spend 30% of his $37 billion worth (which happens to be an almost 40% loss from his worth the year before), or ~$11.1 billion, to satisfy he and his family's housing like most of the poor, working, and middle classes are forced to do. Even if he did, he would still have some $25 billion left for discretionary spending.

In very rough terms, taxing him at the current 35% = $18 billion (not even counting deductions, etc), leaving him with $20 billion. He certainly isn't spending 30% of the remainder on his house. Even the wealthiest in this class might barely need to spend 1% of an amount like that to maintain luxurious digs. Yet taxing the poverty level family making $37,000 at the current 10% = $3700, leaves them with $33,000, minus ~$10,000 (30%) for housing. That results in ~$23,000 to try to survive (juggling food, utilities, childcare, transportation, clothing, etc.).

That is why the push to re-institute progressive taxation and it needs to go FAR BEYOND the $39% for the highest rate.


Although Shrub's egregious abdication to Darth helped to solidify what would become a nightmarish neocon takeover to form a facist regime, it was 666 Ronald Wilson Raygun who established the mindset, both fiscally and socially, that destroyed this nation.
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Myrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #52
61. ... and then he gets an airport named after him .,.. WTF?
Seriously. :wtf:
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #61
63. It's sickening.
And it was done from a bill signed by Clinton in 1998. And worse, in the past, buildings, ships, schools, etc., were only named after people after they had died. Raygun was still alive and kickin' in the tub with his rubber duckies at the time. :puke:
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #63
81. Blame that fucker Grover Norquist for all the Reagan-named shit
Grover Norquist has a mission: to get something in every county in the United States named for Ronald Reagan. I can think of a few things it would be good to name after him...but I don't think Norquist really meant to have every sewage plant, garbage dump, prison, nuclear waste storage facility, potter's field, soup kitchen, homeless shelter, unemployment office and VD clinic in America named after his hero.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
54. Yes, how much of it is interest?
And Reagan cut programs, too! But obviously not enough.
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felinetta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
56. I wonder how much crap we will have to endure when in 2011 it is his 100th birthday.
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guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
57. K&R
"Reagonomics" and all it's bastard children since will be the death of our nation. :grr:
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
58. Certainly the most damaging. n/t
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
59. May I add that Reagan was also a lousy governor?
Before Reagan gutted the state hospitals, there weren't armies of the mentally ill sleeping on the streets. Before Reagan gutted the public education system, young people didn't graduate from college with hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.
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bluescribbler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
60. His foreign policy was no great shakes, either
Maybe he did hasten the collapse of the Soviet Union, but I'm not so sure that was a good thing. One result of that was the civil war in the former Yugoslavia. Another result of that was the rise of the Taliban and Al Quaeda. On top of that, there were the unsecured nuclear warheads scattered about the former empire. Last, but not least, we have the rise of Russian organized crime. Those gangsters make Tony Soprano look like a choirboy.
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Lindsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #60
62. Maybe because I'm older now and much more in touch with
politics but I have to disagree. IMO, Bush was the worse President in the history of our country. My feeling is that what has gone on this last decade almost literally destroyed the country. I'm not taking up for Raygun in any way, however, at the very least the whole world didn't HATE us. They did when Bush was in and we all know the reasons why.
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-01-10 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #60
232. he didn't hasten crap
The Soviet Union was already in deep doo doo because of Afghanistan and remember the border tension with China? My cousin was there before the break up--he told me that talking to the people, there was something eerily similar with our economic woes.
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veganlush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
64. when pushing, as california Govenor, for logging the historic
...giant redwood forest, he said " a tree is a tree, how many more do you need to look at?"
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
65. No Reagan Supreme Court appointees = No George W. Bush, President.
Therefore Reagan wins the mantle.
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #65
69. Plus he made KKK Renquist Chief Justice
thus setting the stage for molding the activist rightwing lunatic justices that sit there today.
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #69
105. And Renquist's Chief Justiceship helped bring us the neverending Clinton Scandals...
Robert Parry has reported on an often-neglected aspect Renquist's time as Chief Justice, the poiticizing of the courts overseeing sepcial councels and other investigations.

Still, arguably, the single-most important decision that undermined the independent-counsel statute came in 1992 when Supreme Court Chief Justice William Rehnquist ousted a mainstream Republican senior judge, George MacKinnon., who had overseen the three-judge panel for six years. MacKinnon had offended conservatives by recruiting Lawrence Walsh to investigate the Iran-contra scandal. Though a Republican, too, Walsh had proved more independent than the Reagan-Bush administrations had hoped and had broken through the Iran-contra cover-up by early 1992.

In that heated environment, Rehnquist, a conservative who had been elevated to chief justice by Reagan, opted to replace MacKinnon with Sentelle. In naming Sentelle, who was then only in his 40s, Rehnquist brushed aside the one provision in the 1978 Ethics-in-Government Act that sought to ensure nonpartisanship. That was a mandate giving "priority" to senior and retired judges who presumably would be less ambitious and more judicious than younger judges in selecting powerful special prosecutors.

Sentelle was not only a junior judge but he was well known as an ideological partisan, having served as a Ronald Reagan convention delegate in 1984 and having named a daughter "Reagan" after the former president. Sentelle had made his mark on the federal bench by helping to overturn Walsh's convictions of Oliver North and John Poindexter in 1990 and 1991, respectively.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/1999/c041799b.html
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
66. But
Obama channels Reagan.

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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
67. Not according to the emails I get from my RW relatives.
Edited on Sun Jan-31-10 12:07 PM by progressoid
:eyes: :banghead:
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DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
68. Such short memories
The incompetence of Andrew Johnson, the corruption of Warren Harding's administration.
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. Neither of the 2 you cite were in the office as long as Raygun. n/t
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #68
111. Harding did little lasting damage to the country.
Reagan may have done lethal damage.
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StevieM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #111
152. Actually, I think Harding permanently killed any chance of our joining the League of Nations.
Although the treaty had already failed to pass the Senate. But Harding could have revived it, placed caveats, etc. So he has a bad place in my mind, over and above the corruption.

But I agree....Reagan was worse.

Steve
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
73. GOP is a blind Narcissistic Personality cult that has gone Psychotic in their OCD quest to Horde mor...
Wealth and Power for no other reason than to feed their out of control mental illness. people are dying by the hundreds of thousands to feed their corrupt Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.

GOP is a Cargo Cult of OCD Wealth Hoarders, they believe that wealth is the Measure of Gods favor of a man, therefore it is a sin to tax a Rich Man/Corporation. the poor are being punished by God, therefore it is a sin to help them. and they use Mafia tactics to enforce their ideology to keep the money/power coming, and their Fly'n Monkeys voting in locked Goose Step. Psychotic Oligarchs think anything they do to horde more wealth is ordained by God, and that anyone they hurt deserves it..
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
78. I remember really believing that Reagan was going to start a nuclear war with the Soviet Union.
So did the Board of Directors of the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists.

In 1984 the famous "doomsday clock" was set to three minutes to midnight, the closest it had been since 1953 after the development of the hydrogen bomb.

Not even the Cuban Missile Crisis was deemed as much of a threat to life on Earth as Reagan's foreign policies.
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GreenTea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
79. Without even the slightest doubt -Reagan actor/spokesman/huckster was selling republican party lies
Edited on Sun Jan-31-10 12:27 PM by GreenTea
and swampland to the American people and we are paying for it now big time!

Bring back the Sherman Antitrust Act and THE "FAIRNESS DOCTRINE" that Reagan did away with - and stop unlimited corporate campaign contributions.

Tools the corporate fascist are using to turn America into a corporate controlled state.
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sce56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
80. The damage was done with the guiding hand of Poppy Bush!
I read somewhere that after the attempted assassination Raygun was not the same he had lose of strength and also had the first signs of altimers! From then on Poppy Bush was in firm control of the White house, some say almost as planned! Imagine if the assassination had worked Poppy would have inherited the first third of an administration then been able to run for two more terms! Don't put nothing past the Bush Family Evil Empire!
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MilitarismFTL Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
82. K&R
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
83. Reagan was an actor... We only got him because John Wayne was dead! n/t
I do not believe he was the absolute worst. He was second worst. The worst president, was the previous resident of the White House.
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bluestateboomer Donating Member (313 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
84. K&R
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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
88. And all along I thought he was the Republican answer to FDR.............
...........I always said as President that was his best role. As a Hollywood actor he blew big time, but he deserved an academy award for his performance in the White House. The Republicans had to have a "hero" on the order of FDR and to this day all the GOP bow down and kiss the ground whenever the shitheads name is mentioned. Everyone knows he ended the cold war, right? :sarcasm:
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
93. Actually, Poppy Bush was the worst President ever.
Considering Reagan was his puppet, and his dipshit Chimp son, while a far worse occupant of the White House, was never legally elected, so I refuse to call him a President.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
95. When you start talking Republican presidents, "worst" is a metaphysical conundrum
And you have to put Clinton into the mix, since he planted the flag of the opposition somewhere to the right of Goldwater.
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sallyseven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
97. He was the first worst ugly human being. alive, after Hitler
He indiscriminately tossed people off disability. 95% got back on finally but many died. It was heart breaking. I despised him when he was president and more even after. Pat Buchanan is such a shill for his memory that I just despise him too.
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Screwball Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
101. Good book on Reagan
The Man Who Sold the World: Ronald Reagan and the Betrayal of Main Street America
~ William Kleinknecht

http://www.amazon.com/Man-Who-Sold-World-Betrayal/dp/15...

Good read.
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
102. You've never heard of James Buchanan, I take it
Or Warren Harding and Calvin Coolidge, for that matter. History goes back a lot further than 'stuff I can remember'. Reagan was no prize, and his administration's policies had a lot of negative effects that are still being felt. But Buchanan did fuck-all when the first Southern states seceded; refused to use executive authority to check the incipient civil war before things reached a tipping point; Harding and Coolidge's laissez-faire policies and lack of regulation of financial markets led to the Great Depression (despite the relatively recent experience of the 1907 financial panic, triggered by speculation, that had given rise to the Federal Reserve system)...Reagan in comparison was a bad president, but very far from the worst. The administration of Reagan, and his policies of deficit spending, can be characterised as imperial overstretch; military spending beyond the ability of the Treasury to support it. It was a symptom of decades of US imperial superpower tendencies rather than a cause unto itself; empires invariably end up in this position eventually. Look at Britain in the period between the world wars and immediately after WWII for a historically recent point of comparison.
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #102
128. Or Franklin Pierce
Who incidentally, is a great-uncle of Bush II's via his mother, Barbara Pierce Bush.

Bad presidencies are genetic, it seems.
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emsimon33 Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
103. The decline started with his policies
But, in all fairness, he was a senile puppet.
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pansypoo53219 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
104. raygun only looked good
cause the democrat majority forced him to raise taxes.
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gristy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #104
112. the what majority?
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
108. He was the worst and what I have to add is not about him
But about those Reagan Democrats, who are now calling themselves moderates and centrists when what they are is half time Republican. They elected that monster, they supported him. And they are still causing trouble.
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SlingBlade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
110. Looking Backwards Are We ?
That's a Baaaaaaad thing, Right ? :)
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
113. Fuck Ronald Reagan
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #113
187. Bill Hicks about Reagan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7INABbOnLI

By the way, yours was a thread of beauty. Thanks!
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #187
204. Awesome! I love Bill.
That thread followed the first rule of DU: Use "Fuck" in the subject line and generate 300 replies. :)
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-01-10 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #204
227. I also wanted to add I share your admiration for Dennis Kucinich...
If only people like him could be president instead of fuckers like Reagan...

On the other hand, I wonder how much he could get done with a Congress like the current one...
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
114. He said America's government was the problem and did VERY little to lead it....
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Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #114
118. When anti-govt politicians RUN the govt
They use it to enrich their corporate constituents and make a fucking mess of the rest.
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change_notfinetuning Donating Member (750 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
117. infinite recs for the absolute truth - no doubt about it. n/t
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
119. My friend's mother said it best
"Ronald Reagan was a missed abortion."

I have zero respect for anyone who gives that treacherous cretin any credibility.
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #119
188. Then what about Obama?
He spoke fondly of Reagan during the campaign.
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-01-10 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #188
211. No, he did not
He said in that ONE interview that Reagan was influential and changed the trajectory of the country, which the evidence in this thread bears out. Obama made it a point to say he disagreed with Reagan on almost every issue - but that Reagan was instrumental in setting a new direction.

Fucking knee-jerkers around here are as bad as most freepers - they hear and read what they want to hear and read, facts be damned. Ideological dogmatism and intellectual dishonesty reign.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
120. Let's be real: the 20-year BFEE presidency was the worst in our nation's history
All the major and many of the minor players in the Bush II administration also served in Republican administrations dating back to 1969.
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #120
189. Robert Gates still serves...
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #189
200. I think he's semi-okay
You have heard of those men who started out in the mailroom and wound up as CEO? That's Robert Gates, except the mailroom he started out in was in the basement of CIA--he's the first and, so far, only person who ever started out in an entry-level CIA officership and retired from the Agency as Director of Central Intelligence. He's not a slug.

GEN Gordon Sullivan would be good. I've met him. He was Chief of Staff of the Army and did a good job at it. ADM William Studeman (who was Director of the National Security Agency) would be okay--he was one of the people they pulled in to review the intelligence post-Iraq Invasion. In reality, the list of people who can actually do that job is REAL fucking short and has a lot of guys who wore stars on their collars on it.
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-01-10 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #200
228. Yeah, he only has the blood of a few thousand dead Nicaraguans on his hands...
The CIA is a terrorist organization.
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ThomThom Donating Member (752 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
121. don't forget what he did to California's economy before
he moved on to Washington
but I still think Bush II is the worst, Reagan is right behind him in my book
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #121
127. thank you for mentioning that
I remember growing up and my mom had distinct disliking for Reagan because of what he did to California. She told me that he cut programs that if we had not had access to when I was a very young child, I would have been dead (assistance to low income families w/medical problems). After he made the UC system for pay, my brother(who was accepted to Berkeley) was unable to attend because we couldn't afford it. Thanks Reagan.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
124. Can't argue with that.
Ronald Reagan set the stage for the national movement to the right, and for GWB.
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The_Commonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
129. Hmmm...
44 - George W Bush
43 - James Buchanan
42 - Ronald Reagan
41 - Herbert Hoover
40 - Richard Nixon

That's my worst 5 list, and I'm sticking to it!
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dems_rightnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #129
132. Damn Buchanan haters
Edited on Sun Jan-31-10 02:50 PM by dems_rightnow
Not too many of them around. :headbang:
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on point Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
130. Among the worst, not the worst
Bush was both wrong headed and incompetent in execution. Reagan was merely wrong headed, but competent in execution, so I have to say that George Bush (the Liar) is still the worst president.

That is not to say that Reagan, and the republicans in general, have not been an economic and social disaster for the country. They are part and parcel of the rise of the ignorant and delusional far right, which is out of touch with reality and whose philosophy and theories neither square with reality nor are even internally consistent.

There should be nothing named after Reagan, except perhaps garbage dumps. Those pushing for such things are living in a myth of their own making.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
133. You're right. It's important for people to know very clearly that Reagan
was the patriarch of America's economic woes, Bush II, putting it all in state-of-the-art overdrive. Reagan laid the groundwork. And how!

'This stuff needs to be said a million times!'

Make that a squillion.
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #133
143. I think what needs to be driven home is we are STILL paying for Reagan's debt
He drove it to the sky and it has stayed there for 25 years and whenever Democrats want to get rates up just a little to pay down the debt Republicans scream Socialism!!!!! Back in the old days before Reagan's experiment Republican's like Eisenhower use to be cool with taxing the hell out of the rich to balance the budget. They were true fiscal Republicans. That brand of Republican is extinct because Reagan made if seem sacrilegious to raise taxes even just a little bit.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #143
146. I know little about the subject, but you seem to clearly identify the real, major
issue in this whole matter. Your Democratic politicians should hammer it home, it loud and clear, when the Republicans start their shenanigans.
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #146
158. If Democrats can successfully show Reagan was a disaster then the Republicans
will have no way to sell their lies to the American people. It's like killing off their Messiah! The person they draw hope from. They would have to go back to Teddy Roosevelt who was more of a Democrat than todays Republicans.

We should attack Reagan at every opportunity!
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #158
192. Won't work with today's media!
The only ones I've heard criticizing Reagan were Bill Maher (comedian on pay-tv) and Olbermann in one short, in-between squeezed line ("Reagan was a lousy president").
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Holy Moly Donating Member (86 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #146
177. hammering repubs?
Democrats never have spine to
hammer any repubs,
they'd much druther hammer their own base
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-01-10 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #177
220. Blubber, blubber. There, there.... All come out in the wash. Unless by 'their own base' you're
Edited on Mon Feb-01-10 03:57 PM by Joe Chi Minh
referring to the likes of Dennis Kucinich and the other firebrand; in which case, I apologise.
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
134. I think his brainwashing of the right with the 'gov't is the problem' message
Has really hurt our chances to move forward.

From some reason...people actually believed him when he said that.

I still think Bsh Jr was the worst, but Reagan is a close second.
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craigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
135. FDR didn't need a legacy project unlike reagan
He also single handedly sold our manufacturing base overseas while destroying the traditional middle class in the process.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
136. I'm not sure if he was a worse prez than W, but the worst thing about Reagan is

the fact that he continues to be glorified, even (arguably) by Obama.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
137. Some want him on a dime.
The day he was sworn in, he became the worst president ever.
Regarding his fiscal policy: Pure BFEE Reverse Robin Hood for the Rich and Trickle-Down to Main Street.



Don't forget how this guy said he believed in "State's Rights"
when he opened his campaign for president in Philadelphia, Mississippi,
a city where 16 years earlier three civil rights activists were slain.

He also conflated food-stamps, vodka and welfare queens.
Anybody wonder who he meant?
Anybody wonder what he meant?

Reagan's was a truly despicable adminstration. Unsurpassed in modern times, anyway, until the day George Herbert Walker Bush was sworn in. Then, Poppy became the worst president ever. Same goes for his idiot son.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #137
179. I see Reagan was a Racist Too
is racism a qualification to becoming a republican or what?
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
138. Reagonomics totally fucked us all, the current recession is a result of it.
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Yavapai Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
139. My 15 minutes of fame was deleted!
In 1969, when Ronald Raygun was running for re-election as governor of California, he came to the employee gate #4 at Kaiser Steel Corporation with TV cameras rolling. I happened to have had a doctors appointment that day and had to leave early from work. As I came out, a guy in a five hundred dollar suit approached me and asked if I would like to shake Ronald Rayguns hand. I told him I would rather shake Fidel Castros hand and that I would not piss on Reagans face if he was on fire.

Somehow, I did not see myself on TV that night, but did see several fellow workers who were swooning over the son of a bitch!

Worse President ever? I thought so until Dubya came on the scene. They were a lot alike, Raygun and Dubya, one elephant, two assholes. Go figure
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greengestalt Donating Member (126 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
140. Let's add "Star Wars"
His attempt to defend the USA in case of Nuclear War only ensured man's extinction if it came to pass...


The Russians were concerned with him doing this, and he re-assured them he was just defending, not attacking. He talked about his astrologer and how he believed he was the "Reincarnation" of the man who invented the first shield...


So, they decided it was a pure lie. They didn't believe he could be that senile and stupid and be head of the USA.


They asked their techs: "What CAN this thing do?" Mind you, there have been a number of high profile traitors, like Ames, the Russians did have some good intelligence.


Their techs said: "No way could this thing repel a full strike from us. However, if they struck first with total surprise, it could repel most, perhaps all of what we'd be able to fire back. This system argues they aren't planning a defense, they are planning to wipe us out."


So the Russians worked out a plan to ensure that if they got wiped out, all their missile would be launched. They made an automatic system "Dead Hand" which was tied to remote sensors that if a significant nuclear attack occurred, all human operated systems would override and launch. Maybe they intended to reveal it in a public denouncement of Star Wars, but when the wall fell, their government got too distracted and the pressure of the "Cold War" quickly went down.


The "Dead Hand" is still in operation.
Sealed, in secret areas, inaccessible, will run on its own for 1000 years easily...


It'll (likely) go off if some combination of factors occur, like one major city or two or more minor cities and/or military bases getting nuked. Or a Chernobyl event tied to an earthquake and/or Meteor strike.


All thanks to Ray-Gun...
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lsewpershad Donating Member (964 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
141. He
was senile even before he took office.
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Patchuli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
144. K&R!!!! A gazillion K&Rs!!
I had to live as a young person under Ronnie RAYGUN as the awful hideous governor of California that he was. He threw all the mental indigents on the streets to 'save' money for his tax cuts for his buddies. I LOATHE Reagan and have to say that even Dumbya was not as evil! Burn in Hades Ronnie!
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OnionPatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
147. I wasn't very political then, but
I recognized the "greed is good" atmosphere that he was encouraging and I remember saying to people "Mark my words, no good will come of this."

Even being fairly apolitical I saw that his reasoning didn't make sense.....help the middle and lower classes by NOT helping them. Greed will help us ALL in the end..... :crazy:
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
148. Reason Reagan was so bad is papabush was running him then, same bozos as papap&baby bush
had also. Reagan was a disaster.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #148
160. the "boys in the basement"
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #160
171. so to speak. nt
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
149. The only thing positive I remember about that man was
his concession to implement "revenue sharing," of which Detroit got nothing due to a snide remark (televised mind you)made by the late Mayor Colemana A. Young.
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Ardent15 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
150. Reagan-Bush-Clinton-Bush
were the worst four Presidents in our history.
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #150
151. I still can't put Clinton in that group. Never will. n/t
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Lindsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #151
155. I also would never put Clinton in tht group and I also never will. n/t
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Ardent15 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #151
186. True, he meant well, But his policies were overall bad for this nation. nt
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #186
203. I'll always believe he was strong armed by a republican
congress and senate.
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janet118 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
153. Stopped Carter's alternative energy programs . . .
Carter began investing in small businesses that worked on solar and wind projects. This program was completely abandoned during the Reagan administration. Imagine how far ahead of Europe we would be if we had kept supporting these entrepreneurs. Imagine if we had increased our energy independence from the Middle East. Symbolically, Reagan took down the solar panels Carter had had installed on the White House during the first year he took office. Perfect!!!
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GreatCaesarsGhost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
156. He gave birth to the "spin doctor."
Remember after he gave a speech, they had to come out and try to explain wtf he said.
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SlingBlade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
159. Did anybody mention that he was an Asshole ?
Just curious. Short of time so I'll have to read the whole thing later.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
161. You are correct, sir.
Edited on Sun Jan-31-10 06:43 PM by mistertrickster
Reagan and his media-savvy PR people managed to get the simple, wrong idea established that every problem in our society was due to

1. taxes too high

2. government too big (i.e., too many regulations).

Nevermind that from the Depression of 1849, the US experienced a panic, a recession or a depression between every three to five years.

There were two recessions during the "Roaring 20's" that preceeded the Great Depression for example.

None of these were a result of too much taxes or too big government.

ON EDIT--And now that Bush cut taxes and reduced regulations, we're in the worst RECESSION we've been in years.

According to the CONs, we need more tax cuts and to reduce regulations.

You can't fix stupid.
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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
163. +1 to the zillionth power
1979 must have been when they put Teh Stupid in the water. People who I thought were reasonable turned into Reagan Zombies, as if the 60s, Viet Nam, and Watergate had never happened.
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
165. After a Bush family friend shot Reagan
Poppy Bush was calling the shots. Reagan was the ribbon cutter in chief.
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marias23 Donating Member (256 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
166. Its so good just to see someone say it.
Edited on Sun Jan-31-10 07:05 PM by marias23
So many of our problems started with him
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era veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
170. At least in the last 100 years are so
Part of me will never believe Ronnie Rayguns was elected. I never thought much of Andrew Jackson after I shed the propaganda I learned in school. The dishonor of Nixxon still makes me shudder. The sheep want that rayguns on the side of Mt Rushmore, pathetic.
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icee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
172. By far. Reagan began the descent of the United States, one
that will not be stopped. GW was number two worst, but in a different way. Reagan would probably hire a foreignor to tie his shoe strings. Bush wouldn't, and he couldn't figure out how to do it himself.
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PatrynXX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
174. Hmm Yoda would say Obama brings balance to the force
Reagan on one side Obama on the other, yet they are compared to earth other.

Harry Potter vs Voldemort :P (did I spell that right) ;)

Frankly I don't entirely think free speech exists anymore even with Obama. It'll take forever to get over what heppened during the election conventions of 08.
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-01-10 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #174
231. don't forget the S&L debacle
Before the present boondoggle, was considered one of the biggest heist in history. I remember reading that Poppy persuaded the media to keep a wrap on it until after he was elected--because after all, his darling son was involved. "The foxes watching the hen house."

And Milkin's junk bonds, don't forget about the junk bonds. Where greedheads didn't have to use their assets (or use less assets) to attempt hostile takeovers of healthy, in the black american companies and basically rape them--leaving workers, some generational, SOL.

If you want to see how much damage Reagan's presidency actually did to businesses in this country, read "The Predator's Ball."

And, because of those involved in *'s administration, I'm not going to forget the Iran-Contra, BCCI scandal any time soon. It affects us today. It wasn't just about the weapons exchange for drugs, but it was about money laundering and terrorism. You don't think that what was allowed then hasn't affected what's happening today? And the REAL journalists who were killed attempting to expose those involved.
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
175. I think George "W" Bush pushed ol' Ronnie out of the basement myself.
I think even Ronnie would be embarassed by what became of the idiots in his party.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
176. the worst thing that can be said about him and Papa Bush is they paved the way for Baby Bush
which ought to earn Reagan second worst and Papa third based solely on that.
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Joe Fields Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
178. Thhe media was also complicit in elevating Ray Gun's "heroic"status.


Regan has been given credit, time and time again, for lifting the country out of Carter's recession. But, the truth of the matter was that, during Carter's last year in office, Paul Volcker severely restricted the money supply, which actually was the reason for bringing us out of the recession and, as a result, interest rates began to tumble from the double digits that we experienced. Reagan got the credit though.

The irony of it all was that Reagan was so out of touch with what was going on, that, during the entire time that Donald Regan was the Treasury Secretary, "President" Reagan NEVER had a one on one meeting with him.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #178
181. the media LOVED Reagan
then again, what do any of us expect from corporate media.
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
182. And I still read about historians putting him into the Top 10 of US presidents...
And most 'ordinary' people seem to love him, even if they are Democrats. They didn't notice how badly they got fucked?
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wial Donating Member (362 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
183. oh but he was a colossal idiot wasn't he.
Edited on Sun Jan-31-10 08:37 PM by wial
Anybody ever read JG Ballard's short story from the 60s predicting Reagan's future election based how his handlers had changed his hair style to make it look more like a mound of pubic hair?

"Why I Want to Fuck Ronald Reagan" I believe it was called.

My immigrant dad died swearing he would never become a citizen of a country that could even consider electing Reagan president.

Reagan was an incarnation of collective ignorance and greed.

I wish I could say never again, but until television dissolves as a medium, the dunces will always win a few.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
184. Sorry..but I believe Nixon was worse! for many many reasons! eom
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Terra Alta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
185. the only good thing Reagan did..
was to give the world Ron Reagan(and I have my doubts about that).

Reagan ruined this country, possibly beyond repair. Just about every problem we have now, can be traced back to Ronald Raygun.
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #185
193. The only good thing Reagan did, was dropping dead.
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TatonkaJames Donating Member (502 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
194. I think you're forgetting Reagan was president in title only....
It was his advisers and cabinet who did the real damage (who were actually the president by proxy so to say)
and all who passed his legislation.
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
195. George Carlin on Ronald Reagan's CRIMINAL GANG:
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
196. Deficits aren't always wrong. It's WHY there's a deficit that must be examined.
It's telling how Republicans never care about deficits caused by needless defense spending and tax cuts to the rich. But spend some money to stimulate the economy out of a depression or recession? OH NOES!!1!
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #196
199. I agree, and the thing about Reagan's debt is that he did it during peace time
As far as I know, every other time such a large debt was run up was during a war and then both Democrat and Republican presidents raised tax rates to pay for that debt. I wouldn't have had a problem with him cutting taxes some as most of WWI I's debt had been paid back but he took the top rate from 70% down to 24% which was way too much to keep the deficit in check especially since he was also doing deficit spending. Even if he had lowered the top rate down to say 50% we might have been able to handle things but at 24% much too little was coming back in and the deficit skyrocketed!!!!
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
197. I would personally rank Buchanan, Pierce, Bush II, and Nixon as worse than Reagan.
That's um, damning with faint praise.
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
201. BTW, just so we don't forget:
The Dems controlled the house for a big chunk of Reagan's presidency, and the senate for a little while.

Also Mr. Obama has gone on the record waxing poetic about Reagan.


Just so we put everything in perspective... the whole "good cop/bad cop" act by the blue dogs and the GOP has been running (and ruining) this country for far too long IMHO.
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #201
206. Here you go
"Here's a funny thing. In 1985, the midpoint of what Rush calls 'full blown Reaganomics' Reagan submitted a budget of $588 billion to Congress. The budget that Congress sent back for him to sign was $583 billion, five billion dollars smaller than Reagan wanted. Over the years of the Reagan Presidency, the Gipper asked Congress for $16.1 more in spending than it passed into law. If Reagan was really 'trying his best' to reduce spending, he must have been using some kind of reverse psychology I don't understand." Rush Limbaugh is a big fat idiot page 145

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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NBachers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
202. He was a pathologically lying mass murdering sociopath
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
207. +14 trillion nt
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deacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
208. k + r n/t
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MarinCoUSA Donating Member (783 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
209. The Evil Magic Tooth Fairy - sumpin fer nuttin dick I calls him
Increase (military) spending. Lower taxes. And balance the budget.
The magical Ronnie dream that never comes true but .... The R's have a dream.
There has never been a more destructive political abroad in our land save the treasonous CSA
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Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-01-10 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
210. Wow. I visited the grave of the worst president in history a few weeks ago.
I drove up to the Memorial just to see what it was like. There are some nice benches looking out over a pretty dramatic vista. Didn't know there were any dramatic vistas in the vanilla suburbs of Simi Valley but there are.

Lots of tacky chotzkes in the gift shop. Kind of weird.

I didn't pay to go through the museum though. Not going to hand over money to support that guy's legacy.

Nice flat area over his grave though. Good place to dance.

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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-01-10 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #210
230. Did you only dance on it? Not one spit or a piss?
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mochajava666 Donating Member (771 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-01-10 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
215. Reagan broke the government
Besides making fun of compassionate people as "bleeding heart liberals", or that the rich shouldn't be "punished" by paying more taxes are two of my biggest irritations with that asshole. Also, add in his war on logic and science, encouraging religious intolerance, and committing treason by making secret deals with Iran, and I would put him up for worst human ever.

W wouldn't have been possible if it wasn't for Ronald Wilson Reagan. Six letters in each name. Coincidence? I don't think so. He was pure evil.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-01-10 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
218. I agree.
His presidency was definitely the beginning of the end. Absolutely miserable 8-12 years (counting Poppy).
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-01-10 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
221. I particularly applaud your stance re Reagan, as, if they can peddle utterly
vile falsehood as stirring, glorious truth, all is lost. At least, let there be some 'hook', some small element of truth to their larger lies, some small purchase on the truth. Otherwise... madness... just madness. Which of course, is what you've got.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-01-10 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
224. Yes, Reagan/GHWB was the worst, and GWB was the end result.
Nixon and Reagan began the destruction of the American Empire, and GWB greatly accelerated the demise.

Obama is just putting tourniquets on mortal wounds at this point.

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lwcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-01-10 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
225. If only the czar knew
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-01-10 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
226. MY BIGGEST REGRET ON DU
is that I was too late to "R" this thread..
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Ildem09 Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-01-10 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
229. Agreed
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
234. $
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-04-10 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
236. $
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-04-10 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
237. Raygun kick-started the pro greed party. Reagonomics fucked us all.
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