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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:47 PM
Original message
The Americam Empire is pretty much over
NO nation that is fairly independent accepts this or does this on its own... Ok so Hoover tried this, but in the modern world this is Neoliberalism of the type the IMF likes. Somebody forced the hand of the administration and I am willing to bet the Chinese. There have been rumblings of making the US no longer the reserve currency, and if I am right, expect currency controls and an official devaluation of the dollar. (The latter is not a bad idea for complex reasons but that is besides the point)

I have the sneaky that you too can mark the calendar, on this day as the end of the American Empire...

Is this a good thing? Empire wise that is... time will tell. For the moment, having lived through this, realize that the IRS will become down right bad when it comes to getting taxes. Your standard of living, best case, is about to stagnate even more, reality case, it is about to drop. So if you have any debt, do all you can to get rid of it.

Oh and whatever recovery was there... and there was... kiss it good bye. No, not being hysterical. This is what austerity plans do. Oh and wall street will have a good run too.

Oh and this is a perfect recipe for the anger under the surface to explode in ways that you should understand why there are no cuts to security services. If any of you believe things are bad now... just wait.

And that is my downer of a post based on actual experience with this crap...
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. greed killed it
utter fucking greed
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Like every other empire, so what is new?
:-)
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. Good n/t
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I am not sure you will think that in a couple of years
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. The Bolivarian Revolution is on its way up Norte!
:-)
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. No it is not, for many coplex reasons
though the break up of the US might be in our future... hence a few regions might see an American version of a lefty revolution.
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CynicalObserver Donating Member (157 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #6
41. I am stunned that there are posters here that think
the major economic (and related political and social) upheaval that is not far down the road related to federal deficits, dollars, monetization, etc., is a 'good' thing.

It can get a LOT worse, even for posters here who seem to embrace the madness that is current federal fiscal policy.
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. The empire is doing fine, it's the People that are suffering.
I don't know how it will play out though, other empires that turned to purely financial conglomerates like the Dutch, English and Spanish were not as large, geographically and population wise. A downfall could fracture the US.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. Did something happen?
What happened to precipitate such a thoughtful post?

Thanks for any info.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Here you go, and both KO and Rachel have been covering this
http://www.huffingtonpost.com /

IT IS an austerity plan, by any other name.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
43. Which article are you referring to? Great OP, by the way. nt
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
7. I figured that it was over about 10 years ago. Got out of debt, became more active.
Been trying to simplify my life since then, and still working at that.

Not sure why this day is any different than, say, last Tuesday, but I get what you're saying.

:kick:
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. This is the moment historains will look back and say
that is when the US was no longer an Empire, like the fall of the Berlin Wall moment...

The USSR was pretty much done three years before.
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That Is Quite Enough Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
9. Another excellent post on your part, K and R
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
13. Time for our daily affirmation?
:D
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Indeed, that helped people get through it in other places
I am waiting to hear what exactly is cut, but this sounds like insert austerity plan here.

I know nations don't do this on their own without a lot of pressure... from forces most people don't really realize are there.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Was between raising taxes and cutting some discretionary spending
Sadly, he did promise to get the budget deficit under control while at the same time steering us from this recession. Only time will tell if the right choices were made. The freeze doesn't start until 2011 and he's already increased spending in some areas we might find favorable, so this isn't likely to be as draconian as you're making it sound. In fact, I'd bet my life that you're way off on your prediction (which is made here weekly - BTW).
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. I am hoping I am wrong
but what if I am right?

And Keynes is what is used to get countries out. Every time an austerity plan is done, the pain increases.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Well, it's entirely possible that the shit is still hitting the fan in 2011
& he has to 'scale back' on the promise he'll be making in the SOTU address. It is his prerogative to change his mind as the circumstances dictate.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. And it is my prerrogative
to point to a long history of this and how it pretty much fails
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Kurt Remarque Donating Member (709 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
14. meet the new boss
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lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
16. I did read where the Chinese just floated some type of Bond Issue for 3%...
I think this is above what the U.S. is paying? I do know this will make hot money flow to where the best return is.. and it aint here.

Yes.. I think the Chinese are firing a shot over the bow.. and the politicians are too dumb to see it.. too dumb or probably just too greedy is more like it.

The very wealthy are getting richer by the day. They are building their underground bunkers and survival palaces as we speak. George Bush is off to his million acre ranch in Paraguay and god only knows what Obama is going to do.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. This will create a level of anger that you have not seen
and the guy on the RM show saying that these are targetted... well, ain't holding my breath.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
20. If we had politicians with balls we would tell the Chinese "tough luck"
Yes, it would fuck up our credit, but I will never accept being beholden to a foreign government. Maybe it would force us to cut the defense budget.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Google reserve currency that is what's going on
this is the fourth turning crisis
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
22. Did anyone really think the World was just going to let us invade a sovereing nation that was no
threat to us, kill and enable the killing of about a million people and create several million refugees and orphans and, then, just walk away when we got tired of it? - ALL ON CREDIT - ??????

Did anyone really think there would be no consequences for breeding monstrous financial mutations and infecting foreign markets with Wall Street social disease?

Just the derivative trading of a handful of banks alone in the last 6 months has been 5 times the GDP of the planet.



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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Iraq accelerated the process
but the process has been on for 20 years or so
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Yes.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. The World isn't trying to punish us, they are trying to usurp us.
The system of domination is not going to change, just the main player.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Yeah, I didn't say that, though I was thinking it. It's not that the World wants
right and rejects wrong. It's just an opportunity that we gave them by stupid behavior that is, incidentally, also very im-moral.
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. This is not blowback from Iraq...it is nations saving their ass because the reserve currancy will...
crash.

Iraq accelerated the ecnomic problems. But all these countries. As a matter of fact, the housing bubble is far more the cause than Iraq.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
26. there's a lot you leave out
not all of us are new to these concepts... instead of showing off for the dim, you have so much to offer for those who have been hanging in there......
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #26
34. You start the education at the ground level
and you know it.

That is the financial system showed just how much it changed when the IMF pardoned Haiti's debt...

I know it is about Venezuela partly, but I am betting on a LOT of behind the door ahem one sided talks...

After all WE are the reserve currency and the Bretton Woods system has collapsed.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
28. and I was pessimistic BEFORE this announcement "leaked" out. I hope you're wrong, Nadin,
but I'm not betting on it.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. I am hoping I am wrong too
But this reminds me oh so much of Mexico.

Monday they announced it from an unnamed source from Los Pinos, and the President went on National TV on Wednesday.

ON the bright side I may say that Obama defended the Dollar like a chihuahua.

:-)

That is about Mr. Portillo, and how he said he'd defend the Peso like a dog... the value of the Peso crashed.

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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
32. Yep, if this is the plan, this country is done
It's only going to get uglier from here on out.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. This is NOT our plan
there is pressure from those we own money to... the Chinese are just at the top of the list.
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
33. George H W Bush made the wrong choice
When the Soviet Union collapsed, the Bush 41 adminstration decided to go for Sole Superpower world imperialism. This was furthered by the Clinton adminstration with their Balkan adventures and central Asian initiatives. And Bush 43 continued the policy under the guise of the war on terror.

This caused the natural reaction in most other countries to do everything they could safely do to defeat the US. In most cases, this is through economic competition and a passive agressive foreign policy. In the case of Islamic extremists, it is through low-intensity asymmetrical conflict.

We've got maybe a couple more decades before we bleed out through a thousand cuts.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. Yep. We should have withdrawn all our forces and gone isolationist instead
Edited on Mon Jan-25-10 11:26 PM by anonymous171
We should have kept our seat on the UNSC but abstained from voting. We should have become the world's nightwatchman, only intervening when things got seriously out of whack or threatened to destroy global civilization or the American nation.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Isolationism is in the American blood
so that will come back to at least a few of the successor states worst case.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
39. Sure, that's why there's a US base in almost every country in the world, & why US military spending
dwarfs every other country's.

Cause the american empire is dead.

how's the swine flu panic coming, btw?
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
40. Not unless those 'discretionary spending cuts' include military.
When there's a decision to decommission a couple of aircraft carriers as part of an austerity plan, THAT would mean the end of America as a latter-day imperial power. And I suspect that's not going to happen just yet. Things will limp along for another decade, or two, or a half a century. Britain was near broke at the end of WWI, but it wasn't until 1956 and the Suez Crisis that it became clear that Britain could no longer maintain its position as a dominant global power.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. OTOH the USSR collapsed in oh five years flat
and took some people, except those paying attention, by complete surprise. That includes a few in the Pentagon, though not the CIA.

They went from fielding a blue water navy to a blue water navy rusting fairly fast.

Change at times is that fast.

And it is coming. It will not be apparent to Joe average... but mark my words, the austerity plan is the beginning of the end.

It could take a decade or two, or it could be very sudden. Hey Rome went on for two hundred years after pretty much the point of no return...
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. I maintain it was clear by the end of WWI, the final dissolution came after WWII.
But the US situation has been clear for some time too, we are being ignored, but it may well be a long time before all of our satrapies break free, so you are right about that.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
44. We (our government) seems to be working on destroying the last shreds of it.
Unintentionally of course, but their insistence on keeping doing what they have been doing despite the obviously negative results will do them in too, in the end.
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
46. The corporate coup started with W and ended last week.
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