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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:14 PM
Original message
Army medical examinsers questioned close grouping of bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead
SAN FRANCISCO Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the former NFL player's death amounted to a crime, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.

"The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as described," a doctor who examined Tillman's body after he was killed on the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.

The doctors whose names were blacked out said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.

snip

Tillman's mother, Mary Tillman, who has long suggested that her son was deliberately killed by his comrades, said she is still looking for answers and looks forward to the congressional hearings next week.

"Nothing is going to bring Pat back. It's about justice for Pat and justice for other soldiers. The nation has been deceived," she said.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,291046,00.html
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. WOW! How long has it been since Pat Tillman was killed? And just NOW we're hearing about this? eom
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Uben Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. And this was a publicized case!
Imagine all the ones you will NEVER hear about! The military doesn't like anything to get out of their jurisdiction so they cover it up. Don't want the bad press, ya know. And since congress works for corporations and not the people, this isn't big enough to warrant them taking any action.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Not just now. It's been known for quite a while.
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cazoots Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
52. Pat Tillman's 3 bullet holes in extremely close proximity
This fact was made public years ago when his family was asking questions regarding the "official" story of his death and their attempt at making these questions public. It is a very, very touchy subject with The-Powers-That-Be, on the level with things like the MKULTRA, JFK's, RFK and MLK, etc. assasinations, Freeway Rick, 9-11 and many other shadowy beasts lurking just outside the circle of light. Best not go there.

On Selective Fire M16s or M4s there is an option for sending 3 rounds downrange per 1 trigger squeeze. At approx. 10 yards they still maintain a "tight" (as in "close") grouping. 10 yards ain't jack....a mere 30 feet.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. This has got to be agony for his family......
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howaboutme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
4. We have a government
of politicos who care more about covering up facts than giving a shxt. It may not have begun with "we're taking impeachment off the table" but it didn't end there either. We have politicos who don't care about right or wrong....only what they can gain or game from the system.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
5. McChrystal's Pat Tillman Connection
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090525/zirin2

When NFL player-turned-Army Ranger Pat Tillman died at the hands of US troops in a case of "friendly fire," the spin machine at the Pentagon went into overdrive. Rumsfeld and company couldn't have their most high-profile soldier dying in such an inelegant fashion, especially with the release of those pesky photos from Abu Ghraib hitting the airwaves. So an obscene lie was told to Tillman's family, his friends and the American public. The chickenhawks in charge, whose only exposure to war was watching John Wayne movies, claimed that he died charging a hill and was cut down by the radical Islamic enemies of freedom. In the weeks preceding his death, Tillman was beginning to question what exactly he was fighting for, telling friends that he believed the war in Iraq was " illegal." He may not have known what he was fighting for, but it's now clear what he died for: public relations. Today, after five years, six investigations and two Congressional hearings, questions still linger about how Tillman died and why it was covered up.

Now the man who greased the chain of command that orchestrated this great deception is prepared to assume total control of US operations in Afghanistan: Lt. Gen. Stanley McChrystal. It was McChrystal who approved Tillman's posthumous Silver Star, a medal given explicitly for combat, even though he later testified that he "suspected" friendly fire.

Yet despite this, both Democrats and Republicans are rushing to heap praise on McChrystal, including Sen. John McCain. It was McCain who rushed to speak at Tillman's funeral and then, when the cover-up became known, pledged to help the Tillman family expose the truth. McCain later turned his back on the Tillmans when they raised the volume and demanded answers. As Pat's mother, Mary Tillman, said last year, "He definitely eased out of the situation. He didn't blatantly say he wouldn't help us, it's just that it became clear that he kind of drifted away."

And now the Tillman family, amidst bipartisan praise for Obama's new general, must once again raise the inconvenient truth.


More at the link..
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
6. It would go a long way to stop these fraggings
if the culprits were held responsible.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
7. Was Blackwater around then? If so, were they involved?
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brewens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
9. I think he was assassinated.
He started out being a great propaganda tool but had always been a free spirit and loose cannon.
At first opportunity he was going to be back in the states speaking out against the war in Iraq.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/web/COM1...
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Those Cheney assassination squads had to have some targets
Pat Tillman, Paul Wellstone, David Kelly, Mike Connell, etc, etc, etc.
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brewens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. They had the motive and there was a cover up.
They destroyed his journal. More proof that they didn't want people to know what he had to say. People have been murdered for less.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #12
42. tillman was more use to them as a fallen hero.
so that's what he became.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
48. He was also planning to help Kerry campaign...Every sports network would've carried Tillman's
interviews, and THAT was a DIRECT threat to the illusion Rove and his corporate mediawhores had crafted for the dictatortot.
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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
10. It would be no surprise if he was killed
Edited on Mon Jan-25-10 06:55 PM by Vattel
simply for questioning the ethics and legality of the war. Remember Joseph Darby (the whistleblower at Abu Ghraib)? His heroism resulted in death threats that resulted in his family not being allowed to live in their home town in Maryland. A soldier interviewed on TV openly said that he could understand why people might want him dead. There is real danger for those in the military who oppose injustice perpetrated by the military.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
11. Tillman said Iraq war was bogus.
The guy was nationwide among the angry pale males.

What other high-profile anti-war vet voices are on NFL network?

-- or anyplace for that matter?
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. When did he do that? I don't remember ever hearing about it.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. I found this link. I don't know this website.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Interesting. He's an excellent author.
Both Into Thin Air and Into the Wild were excellent books. Although he was called on several issues by other climbers that were also on Everest.
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Nostradammit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 03:15 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. Jesus Fucking Christ, "FireMedicDave"
You couldn't be more transparent if you were a broken window.

My God.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. What, is Jon Krakauer writing a book about Tillman? Now THAT I would like to see!
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #26
41. It was published last year.
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #26
45. it's been out for awhile, I read it last month. nt
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. quite a few of them these days, appearance is everything...
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #23
28. You'll get over it.
Anatoli Boukreev was critical of some of Krakauer's work on Into Thin Air. Boukreev was a very accomplished and highly respected mountaineer, his criticism shouldn't be randomly dismissed. Personally I feel that Krakauer did a reasonable job responding to those criticisms especially considering the altitude and conditions. I still feel that Krakauer is an excellent author. Into the Wild was one of the best books I read in the 90's. I was an accomplished climber in the 90's and the debate in the climbing community about Into Thin Air was intense, that is the perspective from which I come. If you somehow thinks that reveals something about me...well then like I said you'll get over it.
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Jax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-27-10 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #23
54. Well Iraqis are 'brown' people, who had NOTHING to do with September 11
but racists love to slaughter them anyway in the name of law enforcement.

They wipe their racist asses with the Constitution.

"You'll get over it" racist bigoted right wing astroturf 101 right now.


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Jax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-27-10 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #23
56. "you'll get over it" same as rethug right wing racist slime Scalia says about
b*sh v. Gore.

"get over it"

Same right wing posts. It is easy.




Thanks Nostradammit :thumbsup:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
40. Pat Tillman as Everyone's Political Football
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #40
53. Thanks much.
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Crabby Appleton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
13. Thursday, July 26, 2007
note the date on the article

Dr Mallak had assumed the shot were from an M-16 or M-4 in which case a 2-inch group would be difficult, however the shots that killed Tillman were fired from a SAW well within that weapon's capability.
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
16. K & R
:thumbsup:
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
17. Pat Tillman was murdered to shut him up.
And the Army has lied about it the whole way.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Yup
You can't have one of their "poster boys" start spouting the truth.

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Irish_shark Donating Member (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
21. I have two theories
Edited on Mon Jan-25-10 09:58 PM by Irish_shark
1) He was assassinated in order to create a hero that the war-mongers could rally around (while blaming insurgents for the crime). Or

2) A private military company killed him because of his anti-war views. I've read, and correct me if I'm wrong, that Tillman was increasingly critical of the war (I'm not sure if he was against the Iraq or Afghanistan war but I heard he had criticism against one or both).
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. it is called a "two-fer".
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #21
29. I have another theory.
He saw some stuff going on related to the opium/heroin trade and said something that got him killed.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. I'd never thought of that. It makes sense. n/t
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dotymed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #29
50. I didn't know Tillman
was becoming anti-war. I assumed he was too pro-war and got fragged by his men for his superior attitude. I much prefer the other scenarios.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #21
43. or both combined.
1) is a good solution to 2).
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RedCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #21
47. Why I supported YOUR avatar against being used as a puppet!
The military wanted to use the champ as a propaganda tool to recruit more youth in Asia. But Ali said he didn't have nothing against those Viet Cong and got jailed and stripped of his titles for refusing to kill.

The Champ!

And for that he became one of the most popular figures in modern history worldwide.
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ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 06:48 AM
Response to Original message
24. K&R
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Blue Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
25. There is NO QUESTION a coverup is involved
May justice be served to those who killed this patriot and to those who try to spin the truth about this sad, tragic incident.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
30. FAMILY DEMANDS THE TRUTH
from my files:

FAMILY DEMANDS THE TRUTH
New inquiry may expose events that led to Pat Tillmans death
Robert Collier, Chronicle Staff Writer

Sunday, September 25, 2005



The battle between a grieving family and the U.S. military justice system is on display in thousands of pages of documents strewn across Mary Tillmans dining room table in suburban San Jose. As she pores through testimony from three previous Army investigations into the killing of her son, former football star Pat Tillman, by his fellow Army Rangers last year in Afghanistan, she hopes that a new inquiry launched in August by the Pentagons inspector general finally will answer the familys questions:

Were witnesses allowed to change their testimony on key details, as alleged by one investigator? Why did internal documents on the case, such as the initial casualty report, include false information? When did top Pentagon officials know that Tillmans death was caused by friendly fire, and why did they delay for five weeks before informing his family?

There have been so many discrepancies so far that its hard to know what to believe, Mary Tillman said. There are too many murky details. The files the family received from the Army in March are heavily censored, with nearly every page containing blacked-out sections; most names have been deleted. (Names for this story were provided by sources close to the investigation.) At least one volume was withheld altogether from the family, and even an Army press release given to the media has deletions. On her copies, Mary Tillman has added competing marks and scrawls countless color-coded tabs and angry notes such as Contradiction! Wrong! and ????



snip:


For example, the documents contain testimony of the first investigating officer alleging that Army officials allowed witnesses to change key details in their sworn statements so his finding that certain soldiers committed gross negligence could be softened.

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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
32. FACTS AND LIES / PAT TILLMAN CASE by Allen L Roland
from my files: Du Archived now

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

FACTS AND LIES / PAT TILLMAN CASE by Allen L Roland
Original Content at http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_allen_l__070804 ...



There comes a time when the lies become so blatant, so obvious that shock overcomes incredulousness and the deteriorating moral bearings of our once proud Republic are laid bare for all to see...The Pat Tillman case could bring down the Cheney/Bush Administration for every key top level official, both Pentagon and white House, is involved and they are all apparently lying. Let me lay it out for you. Here is the narrative that Rumsfeld and Myers offered last week ( under oath ) and let's look at this obvious deception in detail ~ together with the known facts ( courtesy of RJ Eskow, Huffington Post )

Then you decide ~ Was a deliberate execution ordered by higher ups of Tillman because he was about to go public with his anti-war views and support kerry in 2004 during a Presidential election campaign or were honest mistakes made by honest men ~ like Donald Rumsfeld ??

The Cheney/Bush administration stonewalled the 9/11 commission before reluctantly allowing it to go ahead but with their own people in charge and Cheney and Bush not having to testify under oath . What were they hiding ??

Pat Tillman's questionable death was stonewalled by top Pentagon Generals until the freedom of Information Act brought it to light . What were they hiding ??

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/07/28 ...


Allen L Roland http://blogs.salon.com/0002255/2007/08/04.html


Truth About Tillman ... Murder's Not 'Friendly Fire'

RJ Eskow / Huffington Post / Excerpt /
1. Pat Tillman dies. Medical examiners request a fratricide investigation sometime thereafter. Their request is denied.

2. Gen. McChrystal sends a cable to Gen. Abizaid and another general on April 22 urging them to notify the President of this probable fratricide "in order to preclude any unknowing statements by our country's leaders which might cause embarrassment if the circumstances of Cpl. Tillman's death becomes public."

3. Gen.Abizaid claims he didn't receive it for 10 or 12 days, because he was in Iraq. (They don't have email, or even secure pouches for urgent memos?) Defense Department records later show that Gen. Abizaid was not in Iraq, but was actually in Qatar and Afghanistan - where the killing occurred - during that 10 to 12 days.

4. Gen. Myers learns the true nature of Cpl. Tillman's death in late April, yet - according to his testimony - did not feel the need to inform either the Secretary of Defense or the President.

5. Military records show that dozens of officers knew of the true nature of the Lieutenant's death within days, yet senior officers and Pentagon officials still maintain they didn't know for weeks. (Surprisingly, they did not undertake a massive review of military procedures in order to determine how such a massive series of communications failures could occur - one that eerily affected every single senior officer with responsibility for this case simultaneously.)

6. The military continues to press the story that Tillman was killed while courageously leading a counterattack in an Afghan mountain pass. (Nice poetic touch, that "mountain pass" - good for recruitment.)

7. A national memorial service is held for Cpl Tillman several days later. The President and others talk about Cpl. Tillman's heroism in that mythical mountain pass - yet Gen. Myers, per his own testimony, still felt no need to inform either the SecDef or the President .

8. Rumsfeld says he was not told the truth until "some time after May 20," or approximately a month after Gen. Myers learned of the incident. Yet he seems strangely undisturbed to learn that the truth was known six weeks earlier and he wasn't informed.

9. Neither Rumsfeld nor the President felt the need to correct the record publicly upon learning the truth.

10. It wasn't until reporters filed a Freedom of Information Act that the following information became public on July 27: ""Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the former NFL player's death amounted to a crime."

Let's say it again, to be very clear: The White House and Pentagon withheld the facts about this killing until they were legally forced to reveal them months later by Freedom of Information laws. And they never ordered a criminal investigation.

As for the testimony by Myers and Rumsfeld: What they have described is a command structure that was brutally indifferent to the situation on the ground and uninterested in pursuing a murder. Gen. Myers, if he is to be believed, allowed the President and Secretary of Defense to pay tribute to a man as if he had died in combat, knowing full well their words were untrue.

Is that plausible, with everything we know about Rumsfeld? Remember, this is the micromanager who hectored generals on little details, arrogantly told them he knew more than they did about the military, and issued regular memos to a wide range of Pentagon personnel on a variety of topics, great and small.

We are also supposed to believe that Rumsfeld was so uninvolved in the human issues his troops faced that he wasn't informed of the facts on this case - and that once he found out, he was unconcerned about the delay in telling him the facts. And that the President wasn't disturbed enough to order an investigation into the killing. Nor did he or Rumsfeld inform the family, or the nation, that they had been misled - at a hero's funeral.

As the conservatives used to say in the 90's: Character matters. And that's if they're telling the truth ... Can you imagine what we could learn about their character if, as is very possible, they're still lying?

And make no mistake, the beat goes on:

Freelance columnist Allen L Roland is available for comments , interviews and speaking engagements ( allen@allenroland.com )




Authors Website: www.allenroland.com

Authors Bio: Allen L Roland is a practicing psychotherapist, author and lecturer who also shares a daily political and social commentary on his weblog and website allenroland.com He also guest hosts a monthly national radio show TRUTHTALK on Conscious talk radio www.conscioustalk.net


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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
33. Seeking the Truth About Pat Tillman - New York Times
from my files:

Seeking the Truth About Pat Tillman - New York Times

Editorial
Seeking the Truth About Pat Tillman
Published: July 27, 2007
The Pentagon indicated yesterday that several high-ranking officers will soon be punished for misleading investigators probing the 2004 death of Cpl. Pat Tillman, the Army Ranger who became an icon in the administrations war on terror but who was later found to have been killed by friendly fire. While this could provide a measure of accountability, it should not stop Representative Henry A. Waxman from pursuing his dogged efforts to get to the bottom of this convoluted and troubling case.

Corporal Tillman, who walked away from a lucrative football contract to enlist in the Army after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, was killed in Afghanistan on April 22, 2004, in a hail of fire from fellow Rangers who mistakenly believed that his small group was an enemy force.

That Corporal Tillman was killed by friendly fire appears to have be known to his fellow soldiers within a day of the incident, if not sooner. But at some point in the first few days another story was concocted asserting that he had died from enemy fire as he heroically tried to help the unit that shot him. The truth did not emerge and was not conveyed to his family until more than a month had gone by and a well-publicized and widely televised memorial service had taken place.

Mr. Waxman, who runs the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, is asking three basic questions: Who initiated the phony story? How far up the chain of command did the deception go? And what did the White House know?

Mr. Waxman has reviewed more than a thousand pages that the White House, with some reluctance, has provided his staff for private review. He now wants some of these documents made available to the full committee, but since the written record seems to shed little light on what the White House was or was not being told, he has also asked four former members of the White House staff to testify. Among them is them Scott McClellan, a former press secretary.

There are at least two possible outcomes here. One is that the White House was part of the deception, which would be bad for the White House. Another is that the White House did not learn the truth any sooner than the public or the Tillman family, which would be very bad for the Pentagon. Mr. Waxman should continue his quest, and the White house must be responsive.


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/27/opinion/27fri2.html?_...
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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
34. Nice of Obama to promote McChrystal, the guy who orchestrated the murder & cover-up.
Real smart move.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. just gives me the warm fuzzies..NOTTTT! Makes me sick! eom
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
35. White House, Pentagon cite executive privilege to hold up documents on friendly fire victim Tillman
from my files:

link slow to come up:


http://rawstory.com/news/2007/White_House_Pentagon_hold...


White House, Pentagon cite executive privilege to hold up documents on friendly fire victim Tillman

Michael Roston
Published: Friday July 13, 2007


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Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) revealed on Friday afternoon that the White House and Pentagon were holding up a House Oversight and Government Reform Committee investigation into the friendly fire death of former professional football player and Army Corporal Patrick Tillman.

"he Committee wrote to White House Counsel Fred Fielding seeking 'all documents received or generated by any official in the Executive Office of the President' relating to Corporal Tillman's death," noted a press release from the Committee.

But the White House has apparently again invoked its executive privilege to hold up the documents sought by Waxman and Ranking Minority member Tom Davis (R-VA).

"The White House Counsel's office responded that it would not provide the Committee with documents that 'implicate Executive Branch confidentiality interests' and produced only two communications with the officials in the Defense Department, one of which was a package of news clippings," the Committee noted. "The response of the Defense Department to the Committee's inquiry was also deficient."

In their letter to Fielding, Waxman and Davis doubted that the two documents were the limits of White House-Pentagon communication over Tillman's death.

"It is difficult to believe that these are the only communications that White House officials had with the Department of Defense between April 22,2004, the day Corporal Tillman died, and May 29, 2004, the day the Bush Administration publicly announced that Corporal Tillman's death was a result of fratricide," they wrote.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
36. An American Tragedy Part 1 Pat Tillman's Uncertain Death ESPN:
from my files:



http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=tillm...

Early in the evening of April 22, 2004, a heavily armored vehicle in the trailing half of a split platoon came under attack from enemy fire in the rugged mountainous terrain of southeastern Afghanistan. Soldiers in a Humvee opened fire in retaliation but instead shot at fellow Rangers positioned ahead, killing Pat Tillman and an Afghan soldier standing 10 feet off Tillman's left shoulder. The former NFL safety the Army's most celebrated volunteer took three bullets to the forehead. Three days removed from the ambush and the ensuing firefight, it wasn't the memory of the rounds of gunshots raining clouds of rock and dust down the towering canyon walls that troubled Spc. Ryan Mansfield. It was the madness of making sense of it all.


snip:

"The first bullet that struck him in the head, he was dead," Dr. Baden told ESPN.com. "Then he was struck by two additional bullets, because of the rapid fire of the weapon that was used. He also may have been shot by other weapons in the arm and vest. This would indicate that more than one person was firing at him."

The previous investigations under Army regulation 15-6, which establishes procedures for such inquiries, concluded that a trio of young Rangers was following the initial fire of their squad leader, Sgt. Greg Baker, as the soldiers were trained to do. But none of those official inquiries identified who squeezed the trigger on the fatal shots.

Baden, though, suspects that enough ballistics evidence remained for the Army to have pinpointed the shooter, even though key evidence such as Tillman's uniform and body armor was destroyed within three days of his death. Baden also said X-rays could have been used to identify the path the bullets took through Tillman's head, but the results were not included in the autopsy report. And neither was mention of a hole in Tillman's leg discovered by a soldier who helped carry the body down the hillside.

"They should be able to figure out where the bullets came from, from the trajectory analysis, and whose weapon they came from, from microscopic ballistic comparison," said Baden, chief forensic pathologist for the New York State Police and a frequent consultant in high-profile murder cases. "The person who fired probably knows who he is. I think the supervisors know who the shooter or shooters were, but they're not releasing it."


snip: this part makes me sick to my stomach!!!


Kauzlarich, now a battalion commanding officer at Fort Riley in Kansas, further suggested the Tillman family's unhappiness with the findings of past investigations might be because of the absence of a Christian faith in their lives.

In an interview with ESPN.com, Kauzlarich said: "When you die, I mean, there is supposedly a better life, right? Well, if you are an atheist and you don't believe in anything, if you die, what is there to go to? Nothing. You are worm dirt. So for their son to die for nothing, and now he is no more that is pretty hard to get your head around that. So I don't know how an atheist thinks. I can only imagine that that would be pretty tough."

Asked by ESPN.com whether the Tillmans' religious beliefs are a factor in the ongoing investigation, Kauzlarich said, "I think so. There is not a whole lot of trust in the system or faith in the system . So that is my personal opinion, knowing what I know."

Asked what might finally placate the family, Kauzlarich said, "You know what? I don't think anything will make them happy, quite honestly. I don't know. Maybe they want to see somebody's head on a platter. But will that really make them happy? No, because they can't bring their son back."
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
38. soldier next to him..check this out what was said then
from my journal:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/flyarm/206

soldier next to him..check this out what was said then!!
Posted by flyarm in General Discussion
Sat Jul 28th 2007, 01:23 AM
from my files..fly


FAMILY DEMANDS THE TRUTH
New inquiry may expose events that led to Pat Tillmans death
Robert Collier, Chronicle Staff Writer

Sunday, September 25, 2005

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c ...

The soldier next to him testified: I could hear the pain in his voice as he called out, Cease fire, friendlies, I am Pat fing Tillman, dammit. He said this over and over until he stopped, having been hit by three bullets in the forehead, killing him.

The soldier continued, I then looked over at my side to see a river of blood coming down from where he was I saw his head was gone. Two other Rangers elsewhere on the mountainside were injured by shrapnel.

Kevin was unaware that his brother had been killed until nearly an hour later when he asked if anyone had seen Pat and a fellow soldier told him.

Tillmans death came at a sensitive time for the Bush administration just a week before the Armys abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib in Iraq became public and sparked a huge scandal. The Pentagon immediately announced that Tillman had died heroically in combat with the enemy, and President Bush hailed him as an inspiration on and off the football field, as with all who made the ultimate sacrifice in the war on terror.



snip at the end of this was this...



snip:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ITS HARD TO KNOW WHAT TO BELIEVE
Thats the lament of Mary Tillman, above, a teacher of special education in a San Jose public school. She has long pressed the Army to reopen its investigation into the friendly-fire killing of her son, Pat Tillman, in a canyon in Afghanistan on April 22, . The persistence of Mary Tillman and her former husband, Patrick Tillman, was rewarded when the Pentagons inspector general opened a new inquiry in August, the fourth such probe. Mary Tillman says she hopes questions created by discrepancies in past testimony will finally be answered.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



STORY CHANGES OVER TIME
An officer in Pat Tillman's Ranger battalion who directed the first investigation into the soldier's death served as a witness on Nov. 14, 2004, in the third investigation, which was led by Brig. Gen. Gary Jones. The first investigator complained that the officers in charge of the second invest-

igation had allowed Rangers involved in the shooting to change their testimony.





THREAT OF PERJURY CHARGES
An excerpt from a March 3, 2005, memorandum by

Brig. Gen. Gary Jones describes how Capt. William Saunders, the commander of Pat Tillman's Ranger company, was threatened with perjury charges. Jones' memo said Saunders made false claims that he had informed his superiors that platoon commander Lt. David Uthlaut had protested orders given to him leading up to the incident. Despite this threat, Saunders was allowed to change his testimony and was granted immunity.

E-mail Robert Collier at rcollier@sfchronicle.com .
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
39. Pat was supposed to meet with Noam Chomsky
from my files:

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1007-22.htm

Published on Friday, October 7, 2005 by CommonDreams.org
The Meeting That Never Was: Pat Tillman and Noam Chomsky
by Dave Zirin


"I don't believe it," seethed Ann Coulter.

Her contempt was directed at a September 25 San Francisco Chronicle story reporting that former NFL star and Army Ranger war hero Pat Tillman, who was killed in Afghanistan last year, believed the US war on Iraq was "f***ing illegal" and counted Noam Chomsky among his favorite authors. It must have been quite a moment for Coulter, who upon Tillman's death described him in her inimitably creepy fashion as "an American original--virtuous, pure and masculine like only an American male can be." She tried to discredit the story as San Francisco agitprop, but this approach ran into a slight problem: The article's source was Pat Tillman's mother, Mary.

Mary and the Tillman family are relentlessly pushing for answers to the questions surrounding Pat's death in Afghanistan. They want to know why it took the Pentagon five weeks to tell them he died in a tragic case of friendly fire. They want to know why they were unwitting props at Pat's funeral, weeping while lies were told by eulogizing politicians. Mary is now hoping that a new Pentagon inquiry will bring closure. "There have been so many discrepancies so far that it's hard to know what to believe," she said to the Chronicle. "There are too many murky details."

The very private Tillmans have revealed a picture of Pat profoundly at odds with the GI Joe image created by Pentagon spinmeisters and their media stenographers. As the Chronicle put it, family and friends are now unveiling "a side of Pat Tillman not widely known--a fiercely independent thinker who enlisted, fought and died in service to his country yet was critical of President Bush and opposed the war in Iraq, where he served a tour of duty. He was an avid reader whose interests ranged from history books...to works of leftist Noam Chomsky, a favorite author." Tillman had very unembedded feelings about the Iraq War. His close friend Army Spec. Russell Baer remembered, "I can see it like a movie screen. We were outside of watching as bombs were dropping on the town.... We were talking. And Pat said, 'You know, this war is so f***ing illegal.' And we all said, 'Yeah.' That's who he was. He totally was against Bush." With these revelations, Pat Tillman the PR icon joins WMD and Al Qaeda connections on the heap of lies used to sell the Iraq War.

Tillman's transition from one-dimensional caricature to critically thinking human being is a long time coming. The fact is that in death he was far more useful to the armchair warriors than he had ever been in life. When the Pro Bowler joined the Army Rangers, the Pentagon brass needed a loofah to wipe their drool: He was white, handsome and played in the NFL. For a chicken-hawk Administration led by a President who loves the affectations of machismo but runs from protesting military moms, this testosterone cocktail was impossible to resist. The problem was that Tillman wouldn't play their game. To the Pentagon's chagrin, he turned down numerous offers to be its recruitment poster child.

snip:

As for Chomsky, whom Ann Coulter would undoubtedly label "treasonous," Mary Tillman says a private meeting was planned between him and Pat after Pat's return--a meeting that never took place, of course. Chomsky confirms this scenario. This was the real Pat Tillman: someone who, like the majority of this country, was doubting the rationale for war, distrusting his Commander in Chief and looking for answers. The real Pat Tillman, the one with three dimensions, must stick in the throat of the Bush-Coulter gang, a pit in the cherry atop their bloody sundae.

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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #39
46. this was also mentioned in the book by Krakauer. nt
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
44. k & r
.
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
49. K&R
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
51. Pat Tillman was raised by a very courages women and I'm so proud of this
mother speaking on the issue of deception that took away her sons life.
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Mind_your_head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-27-10 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
55. Boys will be boys.....
Good thing Mrs. Tillman raised a good and courageous boy....and SHAME on the pissant boyz who 'did him in'.
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