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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 02:36 PM
Original message
Just Wait, Folks
Edited on Mon Jan-25-10 02:37 PM by DarthDem
Last week, of course, sucked. But this week promises to be better. Obama will give a strong SOTU and the Democrats will get a bounce in favorability as well. AND it won't be long before some Republican somewhere self-destructs. Just wait. Everything's cyclical. And this down cycle isn't really even that bad.

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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. Just wait til we have a majority in both houses of Congress and we have the Whitehouse!
You just wait Republicans! We'll show you!

What? Oh, never mind.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Zoeisright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. +100
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. plan b -- TAX CUTS for everybody! Really works for the unemployed, don't it?
:sarcasm:
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. +1
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. + 1000
:banghead:
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gmoney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. yes, we're stuck with this 59-41 minority
Basically because almost none of our 59 has any sense of leadership.
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Xicano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
53. Sure they do. Its just leadership for wall street, not us.
n/t
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. There's Massive Inertia In the System

. . . that has to be combatted. Obama can't do it all overnight.

I'll admit, I've had moments where I've thought that he looked weak, and wished that Hillary (my candidate before I switched to Obama) would have won. But things would have been much the same with her. The Republicans appeal to the lowest common denominator in society, and since the people at that level lack sophistication, it isn't hard to "reach" them. Actual reform-based governance? Much, much harder.

Look, I'll be watching the SOTU closely. But you have to admit that it's pretty well-timed. I sense a populist appeal and a recommitment to jobs and getting HCR passed.

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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I don't care about politics any more.
Or how things look. Or how it plays in the MSM. Or how we need to hear a populist appeal and a recommitment to jobs.

I care about the people on my block getting jobs. I care about action, not more pretty words.

With what I'm seeing in the lead up to the SOTU, it's going to be about tax credits. That's a big help for people without jobs.
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Then Stop Posting

Or, in the alternative, find a Negative Nancy thread where you'll be more at home. This thread is for those of us who aren't quite ready to surrender because of one completely zany special election and one SCOTUS decision.

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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Thanks for your concern,
but I've been making my own decisions on what I do, say, read and write for some time now, not quite ready to surrender those decisions to you, or anyone else.

You, however, can feel free not to read what I write or respond to it. Now that's a win/win.
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. why don't you go a helpin the folks on your block then?
Or at least let us know who they are so we can let them know how concerned you are.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. I do every single day.
Do you really want to know? Really? I'd be happy to discuss it with you, but I feel like you're not being sincere.

I feed Greg across the street a few times a week, he's been without a job for more than a year now and he's barely holding onto his house.

I'm trying to organize with another neighbor across the street who is losing his home, but he's too beaten down by the system to fight any more.

At the methadone clinic next door I give the people vegetables from my garden so they eat more than junk filled with sugar.

I have another neighbor who is bipolar with no car and only SSI, you know how many late night trips to emergency I've taken with her?

There used to be three food banks in my hard hit town, now there are only two. I volunteer at both.

I could go on, but it's not about me. It's not about you, or us. It's always about the people who have less.

Do you get that? Do you have any idea what I'm talking about?
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. I do get it and I applaud it.
Edited on Mon Jan-25-10 03:21 PM by dave29
I was being snarky, as you are being an asshole in this thread. I get it... I get your desperation. I am right there with you. I guess I just respond better to positive energy. Even at this point. I get that you are done being nice. We can part ways there. I would actually recommend you spend more time doing those things than complaining on DU. Better for the soul.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #33
40. Different people get things done in different ways.
I applaud you as well for your sincere reply to me, it really does mean something dude.

I tend to get pissed, and then do something about it. It's just the way I operate.

As far as being an asshole? Not half the one I could be, or feel like being.

As for doing stuff, tonight it's a neighborhood meeting concerning the mega-medical complex in our neighborhood and the fact that it offers nothing in the way of a free clinic for the people in the neighborhood that they've shared for so long. I'll be happy if three people show up, but you know what they say about three people, it's a committee.

When I see what's happened to the people here in Stockton Ca, and I see what little has been done to help them in the last year, I get angry. When I get angry, I get something done. Don't smoke my edge man.

And peace to you dave, I hope we can all do what we can do to make this a better place.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. The type of person who does things like that
Is usually not as cranky as you come off.

People as wonderful as you claim to be here are usually quite realistic about the big picture and even somewhat resigned. Not that they are always up and cheerful, but they usually aren't bitter.





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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Bitter.
Good one.
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. What non-campaign tainted word would you use?
:)
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #37
43. How about angry?
How about fed up? How about not using a word to bite back at me, but trying to understand what I'm talking about?

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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. how about
we get it already, seriously.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #43
55. They just aren't angry
I knew a guy who made good money but was always giving it away to friends who were down, letting them live with him when they needed to and we sometimes thought he was taken advantage of. He was a liberal. But never angry. People with good hearts like that get discouraged, but they never seem to be angry. Maybe one thing affects the other.

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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. I'm sure my heat is as black a coal.
Happy now?
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #55
68. Good People never give up Hope.
lol, gotcha.
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #19
44. A Win For Me, At Least!

:) No question. Be well.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #14
31. +1
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Luciferous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
49. +1000
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
54. Keep your powder dry.
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Incitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
64. Be patient. It's a very complex chess game.
}(
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. You've had your coffee this morning!
We sure need more like you, rather than the quickest giver-uppers on the planet that infest DU!
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. It Sure Is Easier to Be a Pollyanna, Ain't It?

Just look at the "contributions" to this thread.

Thanks for your kind response. :)


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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. I wish I could be optimistic
But with the recent news story that there will be a bi-partisan commission created to cut social security and medicare and then another story where pre-existing conditions might be dropped from any health care bills, its getting hard to take.

It would be ironic if President Obama was the president who was able to cut social security and medicare benefits which has been a republican dream for years.
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Nononono

The bipartisan commission story has nuances to it that pretty much take away (or should, if I understand you correctly) your concerns. And the PEC ban story has been completely debunked. I'm battling a couple of trolls in a separate thread about it right now - - but it's 100% false.

If something sounds too bad to be true, it usually is. Not always, but usually. :) We Dems aren't exactly done just yet.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
9. Whether last week sucked or not, we need to fight on
Edited on Mon Jan-25-10 03:16 PM by liberal N proud
If we don't pick up the pieces and push on for November Democratic wins, we will lose the House, we will lose the Senate and in 2012 we will lose the White House.

Now some here will say good or good riddance and that they (the Democrats) deserve it. BUT! what would we get with a Republican run government again? It will just be more of the same shit from the bu$h decade only worse. With the SCOTUS ruling and a Republican government, we can all kiss any chances of democracy good-f@#$ing-bye.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. Yeah, well, we had a lot of rain here last week, but I still don't want
pukes in control of anything.

Look, FWIW, I don't want Obama or the Dems ousted -- I just want them to DO THINGS THAT HELP THE COUNTRY. And ya know what, if they did that they'd probably be helping the whole damn world.


Tansy Gold, whose pun probably went over everyone's head
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Helping the GOP and media bash the Democrats in office will not fix it
It just piles on more negatives for the Democrats which WILL lead to losses in elections in the fall.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #24
42. Shall I instead say everything is wonderful and the Dems can do no wrong?
Fuck that shit.

I believe in honesty, and that includes criticizing those who are not doing what I thinkt they should be doing.

Was Ben Nelson doing the right thing when he demanded his state get unlimited and perpetual free Medicaid while no one else did? Did I not have the right to criticize?

Or do you want us, all of us here on Democratic Underground, all the Dems who hold elected office or are running for same, just shut up and smile and say life is wonderful?

At what point would you say it's okay to criticize? When Obama signs into law a health insurance bill that provides no coverage for anyone, taxes the hell out of the working classes and poor, and gives it all to the insurance companies? At what point will you break your silence? When it's too late?

Silence is tacit approval, and I don't approve of a lot of the things this administration is doing. Giving billions to the car companies so the execs can keep their bonuses and the stockholders can keep their dividends, but the retired union workers have to give up everything they worked for? I don't approve of that. Nor do I approve of the government taking 72% ownership of a company and then having no "control" over the salaries of its (our) employees.

I'm not a lemming. I won't follow blindly. I will question, I will criticize, I will speak out.

And if the Dems in office don't like it, maybe they ought to try "governing" a little more to the left and see what happens.


Tansy Gold, who will not go silent
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. I have never tried that but I guess it would be warm
"Fuck that shit"
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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #21
48. They probably wouldn't have to worry about being ousted either
Working for the people certainly worked for FDR
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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
13. How will Obama's speech put food on the table for hungry families?
How will it stop the foreclosure of their homes?

How will it give GLBT families the rights and protections they need to survive?

How will it create a health care system that actually works for working class people?

How will it stop these useless wars?

How will it stop the trillion dollar giveaway to mega-banks and other multi-national corporations?

It won't.

You see, I don't give a fuck about Obama's ratings or whether the republican party self-destructs. I care about people having a chance to live and prosper in the wealthiest nation on earth and I don't see Obama doing much to aid that.

So far, the push to grind the working class into poverty has not been cyclical at all.
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
17. What he says isn't worth shit. I'm interested in what he is and is not going to do.
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Understood

And there's no need for vulgarities; I can hear you just fine without them.

Implicit in my post (or so I thought) was the concept that in the SOTU, Obama would outline policies upon which he would then act. If he's made a mistake so far, it's been in being too deferential to Congress. He needs to lead, and I have a feeling he gets that. I sure hope you give him the chance. Getting dispirited won't help anything, really, even if you are just venting on a message board. Think positively.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. He did that during his campaign
...in the SOTU, Obama would outline policies upon which he would then act

:shrug:

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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. There's Merit to Your Point

He has not met my expectations in his first year in office. I imagine he was overwhelmed, as anyone would have been, by the magnitude of what he had to clean up.

However, I'm getting the sense that he may be starting to figure things out. He's been in office for 365 days, and not all of them have been disastrous. He has three more years left at least. I think I'll give him a chance to talk to everyone on Wednesday night and see what he has to say.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #27
36. What exactly did he 'clean up?'
Prosecuting war crimes?

Rescinding the unPatriot Act?

Ending Waah Street's derivative/swap addictions?

:shrug:
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #36
46. None of Those Three Yet

He's done a lot of good. You can find long laundry lists elsewhere. But if you want to be defeatist . . . then don't vote in 2010, I guess. Get more Republicans back. Or stick with Obama, recognize the good that he's done so far, and encourage him to be better. Write to the White House. Someone will read it.
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salguine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
23. Please don't tell me that you'll be satisfied with "a strong SOTU and
Edited on Mon Jan-25-10 03:11 PM by salguine
...the Democrats will get a bounce in favorability as well"? Do you actually want there to be anything substantive behind it? Why are so many people content to be stirred by pretty speeches when the country is falling down around our ears? What goddamn good is "a bounce in favorability"? Are you kidding me!? People (including) are jobless, people (I hope not me) are losing their homes, people (including me) have no health insurance, and the list goes on and on. I don't give a shit about speeches or whether the Democratic Party gets a "favorability bounce".
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Calm Down

Jesus. The point of this thread is to reassure. Your hysteria isn't productive. Of course I want substance, and I'm reasonably sure that was clear from my OP. Or you could read the rest of the thread.
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salguine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #25
69. How is it "hysteria"? I'm very calm.
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timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
26. And Scott Brown will still be in Kennedy's seat as the filibuster proof vote.
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. So What?

We didn't have the votes for cloture before, as the HCR debate made fairly clear. I fail to see how having a 57-43 majority (counting Lieberman and Nelson-NE as Republicans) automatically means that we won't be able to pass anything.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #29
78. the point is that with a 60-40 super-majority "we" still couldn't pass
much of anything.

Unless and until the Dems grow some vertebrae, and learn the difference between right and left, they won't get much of anything done. They haven't even been able to approve most of Obama's appointments. A year after the inauguration and the Treasury Department (!!!!!!!!!!) still lacks many of its higher level appointments.

So it won't be any easier with 57 instead of 60, but it probably won't be much harder. They'll still get nothing done.

And in the absence of strong congressional leadership (Harry Reid? Are you kidding me?), there's been even less from the White House.


Tansy Gold, who is not hysterical either, is not going to calm down, and is NOT going to shut up
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
28. Tell them to hit the streets not their keyboard
If they are that mad.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
32. Wow, I'm So Glad Some Repuke Will Self-Destruct for the Sake of the News Cycle
What do you reckon is in it FOR us?
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #32
39. For One Thing . . .

. . . fewer pointless, hand-wringing posts? Not that I have any in mind.

Let's see if the SOTU leads to any new policy initiatives. And BTW, I subscribe to the theory that what's bad for Republicans is good for Democrats. Moving the MSM narrative is also very important.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
38. Ooo, a speech and bounce in the polls, that's the ticket!
How about something of substance, you know, like a strong public option in health care reform. Or bringing our troops home from both wars. Or start creating some jobs in this country. You know, something of substance that would help regular folks.

Pretty speeches are nice but they don't fill the belly.
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. For About the Fifth Tme . . .

There's just the teeny-weensiest possibility that the SOTU might lead to some policy changes. Just a chance! A smidgen! Maybe let's . . . see about that?

Man, I knew there were doom-and-gloomers here, but . . . wow.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #41
52. You might be right, there might be some policy changes,
However they could be for better OR worse.

But nevertheless, I'm tired of waiting. I'm tired of pretty speeches, I'm tired of unfulfilled promises. I'm looking at reality here, the reality that the past four years of college aren't going to mean a damn thing because the education budgets are being slashed to the bone. Four years, down the drain, and the worst part about it is I still have to pay the bills.

I'm looking at the reality that at best this so called health care "reform" is going to wind up being worse than what we have now.

I'm looking at the reality that all that money I've paid into Social Security over the years is going to be scammed from me, and that whatever hope I had of being able to retire is gone.

I'm looking at the reality that last week we just saw the beginning of the end of the takeover of our government by Corporate American, and now the real fun begins.

I'm sorry if this bursts your little rah-rah, great speech, everything's going to be better bubble, but the truth is that we need a hell of lot more than pretty speeches to this train around. We need solid, concrete action and we're simply not seeing that coming out of this administration or this Congress. I would love to be proven wrong, but sadly I doubt that I will be.

So perhaps you should just reevaluate your perky little self in light of reality and recognize just how hollow your words ring with many, many people.
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. Why So Obnoxious?

I get it - - you're frustrated. Everything's hopeless. Fair enough. I would never blame you for having that point of view; I would only try to reassure you, by, say, starting a thread with that in mind.

But why do you have to attack me in response? I'm not "perky," my friend - - I'm realistic. Things are never quite as bad as they seem. I'm sure venting on a message board is fun, but if you take a hard look around, and have a little patience, things JUST MIGHT turn around. And for you, I hope they do.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. Frustration does not equal hopelessness.
Get out of your black and white mindset.

Just because someone criticizes X does not mean someone has given up on X. It means someone wants X to do a better job, do something different, fix something.

Have you raised a child or two? I'm not asking if you're a parent of a baby or a toddler or even a grade schooler, but actually raised a child from birth/infancy to adulthood. I have, two of 'em, and both are doing pretty well as they've reached their early 30s. And telling them when they'd done something wrong, even something downright stupid, didn't mean I didn't love them or want them to succeed.

It doesn't even have to be age-relative, in a parent/child relationship. I've taught friends how to knit and crochet, simple things like that, and if I don't tell them when they're doing something wrong, they won't learn. They'll just keep repeating the same mistakes over and over and then getting frustrated and quitting.

I did the same thing when I was teaching creative writing, when I was editing other people's articles and essays for a newspaper.

Criticism and frustration are not the same as giving up -- indeed, they are the exact opposite of giving up. What's really the LEAST effective strategy is the constant cheerleading, saying there's nothing wrong, saying everything Dear Leader says and does is perfect. Do the cheerleaders really believe Obama is doing a perfect job? Can they see nothing whatsoever wrong with the adminsitration's policies and/or achievements? Maybe so. Maybe so.

But it seems to me that THEY are the greatest threat to the Democrats' staying in power (such as it is, anyway) because they are not urging any change for the better. They want nothing done, no word spoken, only blind and unquestioning loyalty. Do not speak up, they argue, lest any speaking up empower the pukes.

As I said earlier, fuck that shit. I will continue to speak out because I am NOT without hope. I believe we can make a difference, that we can, all of us, make changes that will improve our condition. And I believe silence is the ultimate sign of giving up.


Tansy Gold, who is not and will not be silent
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #59
62. Good; Well Said!

I don't think many who posted here share your attitude, but I for one find it encouraging. And if you think I'm a cheerleader for Obama, as you put it, using what sounded like Glenn Greenwaldish language, I'm not. I just don't think everything is quite down the tubes just yet. December of 2000 was a lot worse than this.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #56
70. Because I'm tired of being told that everything is going to be alright,
While everything continues to go to hell.

I'm tired of obnoxious Obama cheerleaders trying to talk their guy up, while he continues to do little of substance.

I'm tired of perky people like yourself trying to pump up the promise while Obama fails to deliver on the change.

I'm tired, just flat out tired of having to fight every single politician that comes on down the line.

Besides your OP is just simply annoying as all hell. "Ooo, he's going to give a great speech, the Dems are going to get a bounce in the polls, Ooo!" Get this straight, I don't give a damn how good a speech the man gives. I don't give a damn whether the Dems go up or down in the polls. The reason I don't give a damn is because neither of those things has any sort of bearing on the life that I, and millions of others, are leading. The only thing that matters at this point are the deeds, what will Obama do. Until he brings that to the table you can take all of his pretty speeches, all of the polls, fold them and insert them sideways.

I don't do cheerleading, I don't do perky. You don't like that, too damn bad. Perhaps you'll learn about posting these sorts of cheerleading posts next time.
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. No, I Haven't Learned Anything From Your Post

Sorry; there really wasn't much there to learn. I just honestly feel bad for you.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #71
75. Well if it makes you feel any better, I feel bad for you
Somebody who is so naive, who is wearing such rose colored classes is going to be in for one hell of a let down when reality finally does break through. That's what you're going to face, and that does sadden me.

But perhaps when that does happen you will understand my anger and cynicism.
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #75
79. I Understand It Now

I just don't share it. Sorry. I think you've found a good outlet for your anger, though; dismiss optimists as naive and you're on your way to . . . some sort of inner peace, I guess. :) Good luck to you.
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #79
84. It's not optimism, it's delusion, denial, and a willful lack of understanding of what is going on.
Edited on Mon Jan-25-10 05:58 PM by TheWatcher
The poster you responded to could be wrong though.

Even when reality does make itself undeniable, people like you will still probably find a way.

Because you don't know or understand anything outside of the fake system of political theater and the false paradigm you think is actual reality.

And perhaps you don't want to know, because the reality outside of it would likely be too hard for you to handle or face.

Obama's speech means nothing.

Words mean nothing.

It is actions that count.

And until I see actions that match his pretty words, I will continue to scrutinize.

It's pretty funny, actually.

You'd think after the past eight years, we would have learned something about holding leaders accountable, and not taking everything they say on blind faith. After all the last dictatorship did, it seems we have learned very little.

So stay in your warm cocoon.

And please, don't bother responding. it's a waste of your time and mine, and would only accomplish a self-serving reinforcement of your own ego and and rose-colored assertions.

You aren't interested in the Truth, you are interested in the management of your perception of the Truth, so you can continue to feel good and keep the false paradigm you live in alive and untainted.

I feel sorry for you. You mean well, and I can see that, but you cannot allow yourself to see you've been sold a Bill Of Goods.

And the price we will all pay for it will be quite high.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #84
87. +many, for sane, true words
I wish I could be as eloquent in your defense as you were in mine. All I can say is


:yourock:




Tansy Gold, preferring a flawed reality to any kind of fantasy
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #84
95. Oh Good Lord

Get off your high horse already! Jesus! LOL.
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GOTV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
50. So this will be our one step forward for last week's two steps back?
I'm not happy that we get the occasional toe hold during our downward slide.
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Why Is It Automatically Downward?
Edited on Mon Jan-25-10 03:47 PM by DarthDem
What is the thrill that some of you get from the relentless negativity? I just don't get it.

It could just as easily be three steps forward. The president is a Democrat. We have large majorities in both houses of Congress. Republicans are a dying breed. Last week's special election was just that - - special, as in real special, and we already knew that the SCOTUS was full of wackjobs.

So we move forward, with more than a few cards in our hand.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
58. I thought you were being facetious before reading the rest of the thread
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. An Understandable Misconception

But, yeah, go figure; just not quite ready to throw in the towel and declare that all is lost.
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timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #58
91. That would have made a lot more sense. Alas...
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
61. Yay! A "bounce in favorability"! That will help.
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #61
65. Actually, It Will

Because it drives the media narrative. Is this really that hard to understand?

I feel genuinely sorry for you and the others in this thread who can't see any bright spots.
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salguine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #65
74. I'm starting to think this is where all your posts are coming from:
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #74
83. lol
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #65
90. I feel sorry that you think a bump in the polls is worth more than actually helping people
Edited on Mon Jan-25-10 07:44 PM by Bluebear
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
63. this "down cycle" is just getting started.
and it looks to be a loooong one.
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. Why?

I for one am very thankful for the SOTU's timing - - although many good souls herein think that's "just a speech," or some such.

But why is this necessarily the beginning of a long down cycle?
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #66
73. because there's nothing on the horizon that's going to reverse the HUGH job losses.
when you spend 30-40 years digging a hole- there's not much daylight at the bottom...and it's going to take a LONG time to climb back out.
especially when so many people just want to keep on digging.
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #73
77. Maybe

Some jobs are probably not coming back. But I remember, as a college student during the thankfully waning days of the "Real" George Bush Administration, thinking that things would never get better and that we were all doomed. Then the country prospered under Clinton - - so a recovery can happen. If there's two major mistakes that Obama has made, they are (1) that he failed to sell the HCR bill as a populist, middle-class fix, and then allowed it to become riddled with insurance industry giveaways so that it couldn't be sold that way. The new "sidecar" strategy, if the Dems actually have the guts to pursue it, might fix this, but for now, it's a huge problem; and (2) he's come off as deferring to Congressional wrangling on policy wonkery while people are struggling to put food on the table.

If he can pivot back to jobs and get the health care bill passed with the Senate bill + sidecar fix, I think we'll be on the right track. And I think - - I hope - - that he gets that.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #77
81. it wasn't clinton that caused the prosperity...
it was a combination of the tech boom/bubble, and the beginnings of the housing bubble. y2k even played a sizeable part, as it created jobs in programming and survivalism(training, outfitting, etc.)
and just as it had been done before and after clinton- the prosperity was paid for with borrowed money.
but our credit is just about shot.
we're in for an extended dry spell.
we have to create a certain net amount of jobs every month just to keep up with population increases...but we've been LOSING jobs for many, many, many months...it's going to take a LONG time to make up the difference- but we're STILL losing jobs, not gaining.

the interesting times are just getting started.
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #81
82. I Won't Argue About . . .

. . . who deserves credit for the prosperity under Clinton, although I note that the dotcom bubble didn't really come into play until later in his second term, and then it collapsed, and things were still fine. The point is that as a college student, I thought we were done after the post-Gulf War recession. We weren't. The hole is deeper now, but I think, after listening closely the past few days that maybe - - maybe - - we might start moving in the right direction. Getting the two houses of Congress to agree on how to get HCR across, then pivoting to a jobs bill, is key. Cap and trade is something that I can quite honestly wait for, for quite a while.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #82
86. the 'tech boom' was about more than the dotcom bubble.
more and more companies were automating like never before- setting up networks, digitizing records, etc... it was a mass changeover to the new technologies.
i was a college student during the height of the raygun recession- and it felt like things were bad- but i never really felt that the future looked as bleak as it does now, economically speaking.
there's just not much light ahead.
just more 'interesting' times.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
67. How about Democrats do the people's business instead of coddling
big insurance, Republicans, and Wall Street?

I bet that would be positive.
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #67
72. I'm For That

And I have a feeling that we might start to see some attacks on Wall Street very soon. In fact, they've already begun - - yet another reason for (guarded) optimism.
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
76. It's not to late to turn things around.
Our elected DEMs just need to get on the same page and work for what's best for the people. JOBS JOBS JOBS ECONOMY ECONOMY I'm liking the tone of the last few days. It's been an improvement. I hope they keep it up.
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #76
80. Yes.

Thanks for your post. I like the tone of the last few days too. If nothing else, Coakley's loss (and Brown's rental of that seat for 35 months) might prove to be a valuable wakeup call.
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krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #76
88. 2012 is a long time from now. We need to focus on Congress, that's what's at stake.
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #88
89. Where did I mention 2012?
:shrug:

Where did I say that we shouldn't focus on Congress?

:shrug:
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TxRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
85. A strong speech isn't going to cut it
Only strong actions will.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #85
92. Exactly..
... Obama seems to think that talk is worth something. It wasn't worth a bucket of warm spit when Bush did it poorly, and it's value is similar when done well.

Obama talk has always been first rate. It's actions that are lacking.

He has a very short window of time to change course. I'm not very hopeful since he's brought in a campaign manager to help him, someone whose skill is message and spin, rather than advisors who can help him decide on some serious action.
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Wardoc Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
93. Don't give a shit about a fucking speech. I don't want rhetoric. This spin is pointless.
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #93
94. Got It!

We'll see what happens as far as action. Bear in mind that it will take a few days at least to turn things around. :)
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