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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:13 AM
Original message
Obama to announce aid for middle class
Edited on Mon Jan-25-10 08:27 AM by cali
By JULIE PACE Associated Press Writer 2010 The Associated Press
Jan. 25, 2010, 6:46AM

WASHINGTON President Barack Obama is set to announce a series of economic initiatives Monday aimed at helping struggling middle class families.

The proposals include a doubling of the child care tax credit, caps on student loan payments, and aid for families taking care of elderly relatives. The plan would also offer retirement savings options for workers who don't get an employer-based plan.

The White House has promised a sharper focus on jobs and the economy as the dust settles from the punishing loss of the late Edward M. Kennedy's Senate seat in Massachusetts. Republican Scott Brown's victory put the seat in the hands of Republicans for the first time in decades and took away Democrats' 60-vote majority in the Senate.

Democrats are trying to regroup to head off more populist anger and stem more losses of congressional, gubernatorial and legislative seats in the 2010 midterm elections. President Barack Obama's poll numbers are also off primarily because of the slow economic recovery and double-digit unemployment. A majority of Americans also have turned against health care reform, the president's signature legislative effort now in jeopardy.

<snip>

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/6833816....

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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
1. Tax credits?
Are you kidding me?
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Child tax credits directly reduce your tax liability.
The initiative is for middle class families, and most of them have tax liabilities. If they have already paid in enough, they will get a bigger refund.

So no, it isn't a joke; it's money in people's pockets.
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. child CARE tax credit:
http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=106189,00.htm...

as to not be confused with the child tax credit:

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=205670,00.htm...

two separate things. the child tax credit does a lot to reduce your tax liability. the child CARE tax credit, depending on how much you pay in child care, does not come close to having the same effect.

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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. Child care credit directly reduces your taxes.......
tax on a 1040 is calculated on line 44

and the child care tax credit goes on line 48, therefore bringing your after tax calculation down.

The good thing about it, is that most people pay way more than the maximum credit you can get, so if that is doubled, you automatically reduce your taxes, without having to have incurred more cost.

It may not be a refundable tax credit (although we don't know the particulars), but most middle income family pay tax, and this is supposed to be a middle class initiative.

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lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
31. How about a tax credit to buy food if you are foreclosed and living in a tent?
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #31
50. No worries. Homeless aren't much of a voting block.
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bighart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
2. None of these things will help me and I will continue to struggle.
How about a tax credit if you have paid your mortgage on time every month even when it was nearly impossible to do so?
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. How about you think of the nation you share with me and others instead of
only what the government can do for you?

Good for you for paying your mortgage as you were supposed to. Your credit rating is a big bonus to that, but I suppose that isn't enough?
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #5
37. Do you see the irony in exhorting others to be selfless--for YOUR sake?
:silly:
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #37
54. Just amazing, isn't it?
And she's one of the good ones...
:silly: indeed


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bighart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #5
39. So what you are saying is since I don't have kids I can claim
and don't have student loans to pay I should STFU and struggle to make ends meet, but if I did have kids or student loans I should expect help. How big of you. My situation I suspect is not uncommon. I am grateful to have a home that I am buying but the bank owns more of it than I do, as a matter of fact I owe more than it is worth now and no I didn't buy more house than I can afford. Unemployment is over 12% where I live, my wife got laid off over a year ago and there are no jobs in this area. My 401k tanked last year and is just starting to show signs of life again, we have no other savings left. Yes we manage to pay all of our bills including our mortgage every single month but have almost 0 discressionary income. We go out to eat about once a month, only buy new clothes when we have to. Hell I used to get my hair cut every 3 weeks but now it once every 2 months. Forgive me if I am getting tired and frustrated at doing the responsible thing and watching big corporations and irresponsible people be being taken care of by the government while I am told to sit down, shut up and keep feeding my tax dollars to them so they can do more stupid shit. I am facing needing 2 grand to pay income taxes by April because I had to change my with holdings to put a little more money in the bank each month so we could get by. Not sure where the money is going to come from but I'll figure it out when the time comes. So thanks for your compassion and understanding. I don't ask for help from the government, I pay my taxes, I pay my bills, I give what I can to charity and then when I make a comment I get jumped on because I am being "selfish".
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bighart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
51. You know the more I think about your response the more pissed off I get
It is this kind of response that gives democrats a black eye. Working class people who struggle to do the right thing are ALWAYS the ones that get shit on in this country. We carry the biggest share of the tax burden, have the crappy health insurance with the high out of pocket maximums and deductibles, can't save enough money to put our kids through college so they are forced to use student loans, which often the parents end up helping to repay. We get squeezed from every possible direction and yet if we even begin to
express any frustration we are told by the right how lucky we are to live in such a great country and by the left that we should shut and stop complaining because there are others much worse off than us. Hell I am very grateful to live in this country but could think of a few other places I wouldn't mind living either and I am grateful that I have what I do but I could pretty easily get myself fired so I could draw unemployment, walk away from my mortgage and file bankruptcy to clear any other debts I have. I choose to stay here and PAY FUCKING TAXES to help others out. I choose to pay my bills so I don't contribute to the economic problems. The working class is what built this nation, destroy it and see what happens.

HOW DARE YOU TELL ME I SHOULD THINK OF OTHERS FIRST THAT IS ALL I HAVE EVER DONE. You are exactly the kind of democrat that drives people away from the party.
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bighart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
60. Are you going to respond to what I said or you just going to hit and run?
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lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
62. Huh?
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Wow, you own a house? You're lucky. Why would you expect
a tax credit for paying a mortgage; you knew what you were getting into when you bought a house.

What a hollow complaint.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #7
18. Interest on houses are fully deductible anyways.......
Unless you earn quite a bit.
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bighart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #18
40. Only if you have enough deductions to itemize,
which I don't.
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #18
63. As are all property taxes assessed the property.
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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #7
20. Do you know that poster's situation in life?
There are millions of homeowners struggling to get by and that poster has a right to make those comments. We don't know if he's sitting on a $500k nest egg or if he's barely making his payments while going without prescription medication. Perhaps a tax credit is all he can think of that would help him out in this very bad economy. Neither you nor I know.

How about a little bit of that compassion Democrats allegedly have?
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Peace
and a big ole okie :hug:
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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. LOL! Thanks, but I'm not angry.
I just think its important to think about where other people might be coming from before calling them names for having the audacity to want help.

But I'll take a big ole okie :hug: anyday. :)

Thank you.
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bighart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #26
41. Thanks for stickig up for me.
I am normally one to "suffer in silence" but I am getting weary.
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. You're not alone.
:hug:
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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #41
55. I just read your responses and I'm just sorry none of them have the decency to respond.
That's the way with these ideologues, they want you to support whatever they support but never bother to think about what you may need. In the last year I've seen the GLBT community, pro-choice advocates, civil liberties proponents, progressives, Unions, teachers, and more thrown under the bus because they had the temerity to ask that the president they worked and voted for actually keep his promises to them.

I'm very sorry, but these people don't care about you or anyone else. They only care that no one ever criticizes their hero, Obama.
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bighart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. I appreciate your compassion and support.
It is nice to see. I really don't want and would not accept a handout, I just want to be treated fairly and with some dignity. I have worked hard since I was 14 years old and always "done the right thing". I play by the rules and pay my fair share. I don't look for tax dodges and honestly do not expect social security to play any real part in covering my expenses after I retire, which is why I have resigned myself to probably working until I am physically unable to any more. My wife and I have not had a vacation in years and rarely, maybe twice a year, travel more than 50 miles from home. We will be celebrating our 25th anniversary this summer and I don't even know if we will be able to afford a couple nights in a hotel and a couple meals at a nice restaurant. Am I getting tired and pissed off? Yeah probably but I think it is at least in part justified.
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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. It's absolutely justified.
I keep saying that there are two classes in this country, despite what everyone wants to hear. There is the investor class and the working class. The working class has been nearly destroyed in order to feed more and more wealth to the investor class. We elected a Democrat to change this, but he has only increased the upward flow of money with the largest trickle-down scheme in history (mega-bank bailouts).

It's too bad that so many at DU, a place that was supposed to be a haven for progressives, are so ideological that they refuse to even consider that working class people may need help just because their hero has ignored us.
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bighart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
42. No, I own a mortgage
The bank owns the house. I am 10 years into a 30 year mortgage so the banks owns more of it than I do.
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bighart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
59. The economy was different 10 years ago when I signed the mortgage.
Maybe I should just walk away from it and contribute to the economic problems. Would that be a better choice in your view?
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. +1
That's what we've done and it has been really hard. The mortgage company won't even talk to us unless we've made late payments and we're not willing to take that risk.
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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
30. +1. I know exactly where you're coming from.
I've had enough with fiddling around the edges with tax credits and so on. What the middle class needs is middle-class jobs.
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
4. For a while there, I was afraid that Obama was going to veer to the Left.
Whew!
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peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #4
29. Yep, that was a close one
On second thought, there really was no danger of that actually happening, was there.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
6. Well, I got the short straw again: no kids, no student loans, no elderly parents
and have already decided never to retire. How about a fat check in the mail in lieu of sending one to the banksters?
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deacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
8. We know the GOP will be against it. It might actually help a segment of our population, They'll
Edited on Mon Jan-25-10 08:32 AM by deacon
definitely hate it.
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #8
24. There is no doubt about that.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
10. Living wage JOBS put money in people's pockets, not tax credits/cuts.
Of course, it makes it kind of difficult when you have a mostly arch-conservative private sector/MIC/Investor Class working hand-in-hand to destroy American worker progress. You know, so they can convince enough idiots by 2012 that putting the party which CAUSED this mile-high wreckage in the first place BACK in power is the ONLY solution. :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

Oh yeah, and make the workers feel it's THEIR fault for

a) wanting a salary that keeps up with the cost of living
b) not wanting to compete with workers that make 3.50 an hour (possibly because they CAN'T)
c) DARING to elect a (shudder) DEMOCRAT instead of their party's sock puppets.
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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
11. This misses the mark for the 50-65 year old range.
They have children, but already grown.

They've don't have student loans to pay.

It's too late for them to invest any meaningful amount of money for retirement.

On the other hand, I do think the last two proposals are actually good for the economy and for families. Child tax credits exclude millions of GLBT households (who already pay exorbitant taxes without full legal rights) and those too poor to realize any further tax credits.
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LiberalEsto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. I'm 57 and we're paying our kids' student loans
and will probably be doing so for the foreseeable future. Our kids can't find work that pays enough for them to pay their own loans.

I'm sure a lot of others in my age bracket are doing the same thing.

We can't save a red cent for retirement because we're shelling out over $700 a month for student loan payments. Not that we expect to ever be able to afford to retire.
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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Wow! That's downright insane.
Sorry to hear that, seriously.

While I don't think most households in your tax bracket are paying student loans, this could be a good idea for anyone from 22+ who is and I do support it as I said earlier.
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LiberalEsto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. And to make it worse...
our older daughter (26) complains that we baby boomers aren't giving up our jobs so her generation can have them. It is to laugh.

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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. What's "funny" is that so many baby boomers can't afford to give up their jobs.
Not that it would really help very much but there was supposed to be a safety net that allowed seniors to retire with dignity while opening up jobs for the young. It was called social security. Unfortunately, it sounds like the government is about to "look at" it again.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #21
49. Yes, "funny."
It's irritating to hear the younger workers who think all us 'boomers' got rich and are just selfishly holding on to our jobs. The age you can draw your SS is being raised incrementally. Those of us who came into the work force in the 80's missed the jobs with retirement programs and have had to try to scrape out some savings for our 401k's during 3 decades of stagnating and declining wages. As a nurse, my entire work life has been spent with increased work loads every year while our income stagnated or went down (get a 2-4% 'merit' raise and your benefit package went up another $100 per month). I do think people who talk about the baby boomers are speaking of those who entered the work force in the 70's. They did a little better. But, really, the last generation who had a real shot (pensions, wages increasing regularly) was my parent's generation who entered the work force in the 50's and 60's. People born the year I was have to wait til we're 66 and 2 mos old to draw our full SS. Quite a few who were set saw their 401k's tank and don't feel they have enough to retire.

The Medicare extension that got killed might have gotten a few to retire sooner as there are some who have the money but are still working for the health care benefits. But that got shot.

All in all, those of us who still have a job aren't likely to be going anywhere any time soon.
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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #19
28. Maybe she is referring to Jay Leno lol. nt
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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #15
25. I have friends who are graduating with almost $100K in student loan debt
And I'm talking about history and English undergraduate degrees, not a degree that would actually return some of the money they invested in themselves. Even without a cap they'll be paying off that loan for over thirty years.
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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. I doubt it'll be a cap on the total sum, just a cap on monthly payments.
So your friends will likely be paying even longer if the the cap affects them.
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peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #15
32. We support one adult child at home
while she attends medical training that will, barring any unforeseen catastrophe, lead to a job as soon as she receives her state certification in a year (Florida is God's waiting room, after all). She is not able to work a paying job because the program is intensive and involves clinical apprenticeship (also know as unpaid labor). We cover the entire cost but are willing to make the necessary sacrifices to help her gain a more solid employment opportunity.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #11
34. exclude GLBT households? How can that be with a child tax credit?
If a gay couple adopts a child one or the other does get the tax credit. I know they are penalized by not being legally married in the eyes of the federal government, but I received a child tax credit when I was a single, divorced mom. I'm not saying you are wrong, but what am I missing here?
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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. Many, if not most, states do not allow GLBT couples to adopt.
They also cannot file joint returns so on the off chance that a couple does have a child, the credit comes off of one salary which is often too low to receive it. Yes, it excludes the GLBT community.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. Agreed and yet another reason to repeal that noxious DOMA.
Good parents who happen to be gay are penalized and the children suffer.
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
12. Middle class family with four teenagers.
These proposals won't help us one bit.

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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
13. More Gimmicks To Keep Us From Looking Closely At New Financial "Reforms"
These new financial reforms are looking to be a smoke screen to sooth the rabble while continuing to shovel their money to the bankers.

Dear God, when will we have actual change?
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
23. J-O-B-S.
That's what is needed, and that is what this administration needs to focus on. Not tax credits, not more bailouts for corporations, but jobs, real, live, decent paying jobs.

The rest of this is simply a dog and pony show designed to try and pacify the population.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #23
53. Yes,

and the refusal to even consider a government jobs program is damning in the extreme. The trickle down approach which this administration has taken is a useless waste of money which could go those who really need it and not in the pockets of private employers.

It may be that we are looking at a permanent real unemployment rate of something like 10%. That will instill some 'discipline' in the labor market! Wouldn't want to give a glimmer of hope of a decent government job to the proles, that would ruin everything.
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Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
33. Bandaids and bullshit. Not impressed. Child care tax credits for
for parents that now have to work two shifts to make ends meet. Help for folks taking care of parents because other sources of care are too expensive or not available at all. Caps on student loans because education is becomming out of reach for most people. Retirement help because Wall Street stole our savings.
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DisgustedInMN Donating Member (956 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
36. I need a JOB..
.. not another fucking worthless "tax credit."

FUCKING DINOs.
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
43. More republican-lite.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
45. School uniforms for the unemployed!
This is exactly what Clinton did... a blizzard of small-scale PR policies.

It might be good politics and better than a stick in the eye for anyone helped but it's rearranging deck-chairs.
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. +1
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
46. Why is CNN's news ticker saying this is a child tax credit
and not for child CARE?
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. Nevermind, their ticker was incorrect but the website has fixed it.
Which again means nothing for us in these measure, not a damn thing. :(
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earthboundmisfit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
47. Tax credits are fine IF you've the $ to spend to begin with, for credit on NEXT year's taxes
Most of us do not. I don't think you can find a daycare, for instance, willing to front you child care on the promise of next year's tax credit! Tax credits sound like a cheap-Charlie way to get around giving real help.

And requiring ANYthing of employers these days is a sure-fire way to make them NOT hire.

I hope they can come up with better than this. I feel like the middle class is being thrown a bone, with not a hell of a lot of meat on it.

I heard nothing about the gorilla in the room - JOBS.


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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
57. let me guess...the republicons will oppose it.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
61. How about jobs? Like actual jobs directly from the government?
WPA-style.
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