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CONFESSED: The 10 Year Plan to Destroy Campaign Finance Laws: Final Solution= SECRET Contributions

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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 12:52 AM
Original message
CONFESSED: The 10 Year Plan to Destroy Campaign Finance Laws: Final Solution= SECRET Contributions
Edited on Mon Jan-25-10 01:12 AM by Land Shark
More than a couple times, I've had the honor of people posting replies, in an excess of enthusiasm, saying my post was one of the best they've seen in years, or on DU since the 2008 election, etc.

Wanting to cash in any and all credibility I have with you, if any, because I think this is the most important post I've ever done, BY A MILE, I'd ask the favor of:

(a) reading this short post in its entirety, and the New York Times link below to Monday's paper, and

(b) A KICK for democracy so some others can see. Whether or not you Recommend this post I leave to your best judgment.

"Citizens United" Attorney and Strategist Admits He's Almost Done with 10-Year Plan to Destroy Campaign Laws, The Final Step is Destroying Disclosure Rules Creating SECRET Contributions



James Bopp, Jr., the spearhead strategist for the group Citizens United as well as their lead attorney in the trial court for the Citizens United case just decided at the US Supreme Court, said the following about his several US Supreme Court successes in demolishing the idea that the government has the power to do ANYTHING in terms of regulation of campaign finance:

From Monday, January 25, 2010 New York Times, Page A11:

We had a 10-year plan to take all this {campaign finance regulation} down, he said in an interview. And if we do it right, I think we can pretty well dismantle the entire regulatory regime that is called campaign finance law.

We have been awfully successful, he added, and we are not done yet.




I HOPE I have your attention at this point?

Good, because I'm on an email listserv that includes Mr. Bopp and several hundred other election lawyer, professor, writer and media types, and I can confirm that there's a definite firefight going on for the intellectual principles upon which free countries are founded. You see the ideals of freedom and equality and democracy are so powerful that they will EITHER lead us out, upward and onward like the guiding star principles they are, or else, as with Citizens United, they will be the Orwellian wrapper to your worst political nightmares.

Freedom or slavery or oligarchy, they will ALL be "Brought to you by Freedom, Equality and the First Amendment." THe only question is whether that statement will be Orwellian, and how Orwellian it will be, or whether it will be the realization of something much closer to Martin Luther King's beloved community: "Free at last, free at last, thank God Almighy We're Free at Last."

The reason these mere "ideas' are so important: America was the first country in world history founded upon IDEAS instead of a territory or a specific national ethnic group. Thus, the battle of America is a battle of ideas that's constantly being re-argued.

America is a landscape of the mind: we have to tend our garden, people. EVERY ACTION - Every single one, is preceded by an idea and an inspiration. Ideas are the fountain and the source of action, and the well is being poisoned. See Citizens United.

I'm going to take the risk of giving you my "controversial" conclusion first, but I'm also telling you that I'll provide the proof by the link at the end of this post.

CONCLUSION: The 10 year plan to use specific Supreme Court cases to totally destroy campaign finance regulation and the First Amendment (in the name of the First Amendment) is nearly complete after several big US Supreme Court victories, and the final 2 blows are working their way up, with one already having a grant of cert by the US Supreme Court - the "Doe" secret-petition signers case from Washington state attacking gay rights. The other is in the trial courts, the plaintiff is the Republican National COmmittee, the attorney is James Bopp, Jr., and the idea is that it's senseless to regulate political party contributions when independent ads are a propaganda free-for-all.

NY Times:

If you cannot ban corporate spending on ads, how is it that you are allowed to ban corporate contributions to candidates? asked Nathaniel Persily, a professor at Columbia Law School. That is the next shoe to drop.



The ENDGAME: Totally unlimited, totally unregulated and TOTALLY SECRET CAMPAIGN FINANCE at all levels.

The most important ENDGAME is the secret contributions right, so that we don't even KNOW WHO OUR CORPORATE MASTERS ARE WHO ARE blasting their propaganda from media outlets. Sure, we'll all call it Big Brother not just metaphorically but because it will have NO OTHER NAME and disclosure would violate the constitutional rights of oligarchs who paid for the ads.



Oh yeah, my "endgame" is not my "theory" or fantasy or "conspiracy theory". Here's the mastermind of Citizens United in Monday's New York Times:

"Mr. Bopp said the next step in his 10-year plan is to roll back the {campaign finance} disclosure rules." http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/25/us/politics/25bopp.ht...


One can see Mr. Bopp's and Mr. Scalia's version of those principles in the majority and concurring opinions in Citizens United. Boiled down, they are:

1. Survival of the richest.

2. Money is free speech, and money trumps everything else including the need for an informed citizenry, or balanced debate. As a voter, you're supposed to be one of the 130 million equal kings and queens of this self-governing country, but you've "No Right to Know" and "No Right to Good Information" - just a right to publish all the propaganda you can afford.

3. It's NOT just that campaign finance laws and state constitutional provisions banning corporate influence are "flawed" or unconstitutional - It's that NOTHING IN THIS AREA can ever be constitutional if it limits the power of money. Their message via the first Amendment: THE GOVERNMENT IS POWERLESS TO PROTECT We the People.

4. The proper view of the law, as declared in Citizens United, is as a Mirror Image of theDred Scott case, which held that people are property, only this time in Citizens United it's mirror image is held up for inspection: (corporate)
Properties are People.

If I were to say what I really thought yesterday, namely that there's a ten year plan in the works by a prominent right-wing lawyer and Christian conservative friends to totally demolish (in the name of First Amendment freedom) all campaign finance regulations via strategically selected court cases planned for the US Supreme Court, and if I claimed that the final step was near at hand, which was to make SECRET CONTRIBUTIONS the constitutional law of the land, I'd be called a conspiracy theorist.

Yup. If I were to say the above, I'd be called a conspiracy theorist. But I'd also be 100% correct too. And now we have the proof and the admissions.



Read it for yourself: The lead attorney and mastermind of this plan just confessed or, rather, bragged about it to the New York Times. See http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/25/us/politics/25bopp.ht...

Secrecy always means NO accountability & No Right to Know.




I can't say it strongly enough how damaging SECRET contributions (i.e. no requirement of disclosure) will be. Just imagine being on a jury - the method for public control of the judicial branch, and having all the witnesses claim the right to appear before you with hoods over their heads and all refusing to give their names. How could you make a proper decision as a juror/voter in such conditions?

"Mr. Bopp said the next step in his 10-year plan is to roll back the {campaign finance} disclosure rules."

I think we can pretty well dismantle the entire regulatory regime that is called campaign finance law.

We have been awfully successful, he added, and we are not done yet.http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/25/us/politics/25bopp.ht...


I've been at my 'post' now in election law about full time every day since the 2004 election. I've been warning about the secret unaccountable computerized vote counts as deadly to democracy and an invitation to open fraud for all those years. The secrecy there is an undisputed fact. I've also been on campaign finance and seeing the growing tsunami of litigation for secret contributions. I'm relieved to have the secrecy plans out in the open now, because it's been an intense email fight where I've wondered if they were really going to try this secrecy ploy. Yes, they are. Now we know.

In the last five years, I've lost basically everything "of this world." But I'm staying at my "post" so to speak, because I know that 76% of Americans want limits on corporations and union contributions according to an October 2009 Gallup Poll, and even more importantly, to fight for the real ideas of America.

Despair is the soft, sinking exhalation of air that is the precursor to action, the antidote to despair.

So, I'm going back to the election law wars, I'm going to look for a little work I can do from home to keep our head above water, and I'm gonna give 'em hell.

You know what to do. If not, ask someone! ;)





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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. +1 K & R
Secret contributions will be the mother's milk of unrestrained corruption.

Important post.
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DLnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yes, the battle is on
and, to be frank, the odds don't look so hot for the good guys.
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2 Much Tribulation Donating Member (522 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. & It's so much better to have the issues clearcut and in the Open n/t
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
137. Right. "People don't hid in the dark in order to do good things."
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
4. The Rorschach of the campaign finance reform opponents.
Let's see how this asshole like public funding of federal elections. Socialist? Bwahahahaha.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Do they always pass or always fail said test?? ;) n/t
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
5. K & R for later!
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Don't be a stranger! ;) n/t
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PufPuf23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
6. Fascist coniving rat bastards k&r
thank you for your awareness and willing to convey understanding.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. interesting mixture in the title of your reply and the text below. :) n/t
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SKKY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:47 AM
Response to Original message
10. So, to summarize...
...we're about to become a Fascist Country.
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2 Much Tribulation Donating Member (522 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:54 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. What remains before we hit that milestone? n/t
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eShirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:22 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. the trains running on time?
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. Trains have left the station. Who cares if on time when headed in wrong direction! :) n/t
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FailureToCommunicate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
66. That was the "Is there anything good about a fascist country" Was it about Germany or Italy?
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justabob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #66
138. Italy - Mussolini nt
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Rockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
98. Become? We are there.
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era veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:19 AM
Response to Original message
11. Good Post
Thanks for the post about KY's Constitution too.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:00 AM
Response to Original message
13. K&R
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:28 AM
Response to Original message
15. A kick from north of the border.
We're not looking forward to playing the part of Czechoslovakia up here.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. What's the temperature up there? We're just below border, it's 40F/ 6C today
Unusually warm here, raining, and we're supposed to be akin to the siberia of the lower 48. January's usually solid winter.
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. +3C (37F) with rain in Ottawa...
Edited on Mon Jan-25-10 06:12 AM by GliderGuider
It's just our uaual January thaw. Or maybe it's AGW, it's hard to tell these days :-)
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #16
121. We're 59 degress today in central NJ -- January 25th !!!!
Edited on Mon Jan-25-10 08:02 PM by defendandprotect
Lots of rain -- threats of flooding!

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
119. Right . .. and they won't leave anyone standing this time . . .
No superpower to rescue us!

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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:37 AM
Response to Original message
17. Eisenhower's M-I-C speech,1971, the Powell Memo 1971, "Citizens United" 2010.
This is a long-term strategy, and the black hats pretty much have it in the bag at this point. The undead heirs of the robber barons are about to accede to their rightful positions.

The goal has always been fascism.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:40 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Well, demobilization of the opposition is a common strategy (don't help 'em!)
We can acknowledge the scope of what's happened but since this is all about ideas and 76% of Americans already support limits on contributions, it isn't moving heaven and earth to de-legitimize the illegitimate - Citizens United case of overreaching to resuscitate claims abandoned in the litigation.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #18
123. We haven't been felled by this one event . . . our people's government was knocked
out in '63 --

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #17
122. Patriarchy is fascism . .
unregulated capitalism is merely organized crime ---

Organized patriarchal religion -- fascism --
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:07 AM
Response to Original message
20. I think Clarence Thomas was against disclosure in his filing on Citizens United
Just getting the game pieces in place. I wonder where the ACLU will come down on this issue?

You have laid out what's next on the agenda very well. I see a dilemma for the right in one regard - they will have to mount a big offensive for what could be called "privacy rights" in order to defeat disclosure. I thought they always argued that there was no such thing as privacy rights and that activist judges (oh the irony) created the concept in Roe v Wade.

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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. The appearance is that Thomas is a lone vote for nondisclosure - appearances deceive
The other justices took such a huge bite in CU, and overreached so much using procedural shenanigans to resuscitate claims not in the jurisdictional statement of the case for the first oral argument, that the rest of the gang of five, with possible exception of Kennedy, didn't think it wise to "come out" for secrecy in this case, they were trying to wolf down the CU bite and choking on it.

They already accepted cert on one secrecy case from WA state - secret petition signers "rights" so we have to simply trust the sec of state whether there are or are not enough signatures. Wherever real cases of harassment exist, that's what protection orders and cops are for. The regular criminal law and protection orders are good enough for all of us 24/7/365 so why destroy political rights to get some better "protection" for petition signers?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #22
124. Does any of this sound like upholding the Constitution . . . IMPEACH -- !!
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PuraVidaDreamin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:23 AM
Response to Original message
23. They want to talk about "fair"
Publicly financed elections are what is truly "fair"

Anyone in the mood yet for a revolution?
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. The Natives Are Indeed Restless. But a first step would be this

Recognize that Citizens United, not just for its uber-activist holding, but for how it got there by resuscitating dead claims abandoned earlier and asking (by the Supreme Court) for supplemental briefing on issues not raised properly by the litigants is clear evidence of a rogue court creating a rogue ruling - as the dissents even say. So the first step is:

Take away the power of this case. It is VOID and ILLEGITIMATE. It's not the law.

That is what everyone can do to not give the case THEIR fair share of "power" in the form of belief. of course some enforcement and change will happen, how much depends on how many opt out of believing in a revolution against america by the supreme court. It's important that all of us not add any power to Citizens United unless that's really what we want to do.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #25
125. What could have been more treasonous than 2000 decision to put Bush in White House?
Edited on Mon Jan-25-10 08:08 PM by defendandprotect
Granted more citizens were probably confused by that than this decision . ..

I'm not sure --

but I was shocked that some felt we were turning into a "banana republic" when we

were insisting on recounts!!!

They felt more secure and better protected with the SC decision!!!!

Amazing!!

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wizstars Donating Member (792 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #23
64. Revolution--I'm in!!
Nothing less will do. By the time a constitutional amendment or a judicial rollback could happen, the corporatists would already have unbeatable power.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:28 AM
Response to Original message
24. Thank you does not seem adequate for the work that it takes to hold back
the impact of ten long years of stacking case law into legislation that makes money trump our constititution...


" It's Grayson's second stunt in anticipation of the decision. Last week the outspoken Florida Democrat introduced several pieces of legislation, such the Business Should Mind Its Own Business Act and the Corporate Propaganda Sunshine Act. (House leadership has also indicated it's planning a legislative response to the case.)

The petition, which Grayson is operating via his reelection campaign, had 25,000 signatures as of Wednesday evening. "I can't remember us doing anything like this that drew so many petitioners in such a short time," Grayson said.

Here's the text:

Unlimited corporate spending on campaigns means the government is up for sale and that the law itself will be bought and sold. It would be political bribery on the largest scale imaginable.
This issue transcends partisan political arguments. We cannot have a government that is bought and paid for by huge multinational corporations. You must stop this."http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/20/alan-grayson-p...

I'm hoping that congress will legislate this out of commission.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. Hi Midnight. Congress can only legislate at the margins of CU unless it wants
to defy the court to strike something else down again. If the case weren't illegitimate then congress would be totally powerless to do anything about the case except the long haul of a constitutional amendment or supreme court justice impeachment and the like.

The 190 pages are very complex. I realize people want to act NOW, but actually we all need more time to analyze and digest all the impacts so we can move wisely. It's very dangerous that we can be marched off a cliff like lemmings either unintentionally or intentionally if we act quickly in a new and foreign legal and debate environment.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #27
126. What are we hearing from our hierarchies of education about this???
Or does our corporate-press just completely ignore them now?

Or -- maybe at this point, they're all right wingers?
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:35 AM
Response to Original message
26. +1
r
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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
28. K&R
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:07 AM
Response to Original message
29. K&R!
:kick:
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
30. K&R
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:23 AM
Response to Original message
31. Thanks for your dedication concerning elections

Appreciate all that you do.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #31
39. Most welcome. Thank you. n/t
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adamuu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
32. It sounds like we're in for some tough times
Usually I say, "let's ride it out" but in this case it looks like a one-way street.
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2 Much Tribulation Donating Member (522 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. Nah. The only way democracy can die is INDIRECTLY. If folks KNOW it's attacked, it'll be defended!
These things bringing it out into the open are, actually, quite positive.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #34
127. How I wish I could agree with you . . .
Rather, bankrupting of the Treasury is another quick way to dispense with

democracy --

PLUS, the Vatican is a corporation and you'll recall W Bush having had some

extensive dealings with them -- ending up with us financing their "faith-based"

organizations!!!

That's the beginning --

Your highest privilege -- the right to free thought and free conscience and free will --

are based in Separation of Church & State --

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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #127
160. Accepting the premises makes the conclusion follow....
Hey "Defendandprotect" surely you can relate to the idea that IF people understand just the STAKES, THEN they will act to "defendandprotect" -- that's true for you personally isn't it?

What I'm saying is that the stakes are oh so much clearer now than ever before, no matter how abundantly clear it may have seemed to many in the past, it was, relatively speaking, reading between the lines in the past, even the more recent past.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #160
162. I don't see that we're in disagreement -- and wonderful OP btw by you ...
Edited on Tue Jan-26-10 02:10 PM by defendandprotect
What I'm saying is that the stakes are oh so much clearer now than ever before, no matter how abundantly clear it may have seemed to many in the past, it was, relatively speaking, reading between the lines in the past, even the more recent past.


I agree --

but that is because we have reached such extremes on the right --

If you recall Nader saying this --

He was pointing out that as the extreme right comes to power it is easier for the

public to "get" what's going down!

On the other hand, as women's groups pointed out re reproductive freedom and other policies

many suffer greatly in the interim when this happens!!

Obviously, it's better when people wake up sooner rather than later!

:)
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AtLiberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
33. K & R !!!
K & R !!!
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adamuu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
35. This is not about free speech. n/t
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #35
79. I'm not making the free speech connection either. It's election manipulation.
I want to come up with analogies for free speech, if that's what this is. Drinking and driving? Taking money from people? I'm not able to. But it doesn't feel like a valid argument. Is bribery free speech?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #79
128. It's also fraudulent on the basis of $$ which is NOT equally distributed .. .
we EACH have ONE vote -- but many have millions while others have pennies!!

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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #128
145. That's it! That is exactly what I was saying about it. I think it's crucial.
And by being so, it is in essence election manipulation.
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
36. K & R
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
37. How much diffence will this make?


They already buy and sell candidates right out in the open, as anybody with eyes can see. To complain about this is little more than quibbling.

As long as the ruling class has predominate economic power they will have their way, by hook or crook. It is the entire system which is corrupt, not just one part of it.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. Depending on how much it gets known, could make a lot of difference. n/t
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #38
42. How so?

Say this is whipped up and beat down, where does that leave us? The status quo as a as victory? Whoop de do.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
40. Kick and rec!
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
41. This is FASCISM.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
43. kick and recommend
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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
44. K and R
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
45. Strongly recommended.
Thank you for posting this. Your contributions here are extremely important, and very much appreciated.

A number of times over the past few years, I've quoted from Injustice Scalia's speech to the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, from January, 2002. USSC Dishonor Scalia spoke of the Constitution, per 1787, represented "divinely inspired law," much in the manner of the Bible. "That consensus has been upset by the emergence of democracy," he told those gathered, and advocated that it was their religious duty to fight democratic impulses in American society.

The corporate control of our country, which Ike warned against in 1960, was put into high gear when the Supremes installed George W. Bush as president. Yet, there have been other warning signs, that many have missed. These include the absolute rise of "private security forces," paid for with tax dollars, that do the work for corporations. Like those corporations, these forces have no loyalty whatsoever to the ideals of this nation. There is no oversight of their activities being exercised by Congress.

Equally dangerous, and also largely ignored, are another group of mercenaries with no loyalty to our nation. These are the corporate lawyers, such as the gentleman exposed in your OP. Their goal is the same as those other mercenaries: to pacify the target population -- either by annonymous or overt authority -- and to impose a non-democratic, "divinely inspired" authoritarian rule.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #45
71. That Scalia quote always sends shivers down my spine.
:kick:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #45
129. Scalia comment is frightening . . .
Edited on Mon Jan-25-10 08:29 PM by defendandprotect
A number of times over the past few years, I've quoted from Injustice Scalia's speech to the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, from January, 2002. USSC Dishonor Scalia spoke of the Constitution, per 1787, represented "divinely inspired law," much in the manner of the Bible. "That consensus has been upset by the emergence of democracy," he told those gathered, and advocated that it was their religious duty to fight democratic impulses in American society.



Scalia may have Popedom on his mind?

Sounds like the Pope -- 1864/5? -- who was finally moved back to the area the Vatican now

occupies by the Italians -- and he went into isolation at his retreat -- when he came out

he made clear that democracy was the enemy -- and still is to the Vatican. Hope many know that?

Oh -- yeah -- he also announced he was "infallible."


!!!


Earlier the French -- "equality for all" -- had released Jews from the Papal Ghettoes --

and taken land from Pope ---



I do recall that Scalia reminded us in 2000 that actually we don't have the right to vote . . .

we only have a right to vote for Electors -- Electoral College -- !!!

No reaction from public?

No reaction from either party?


If we were watching America since the "discovery" ... since genocide of the Native America ...

since enslavement of African ... and if this were a movie --

we'd be shouting from our seats that this was fascism.

We're in the same gene pool, folks.

Same fascism as old!!
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DisgustedInMN Donating Member (956 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
46. K & R
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
47. Thank-you Landshark. and OMG. please wake up America. please.
You said it before, en passant: they're moving towards making campaign contributions secret. In true rachel maddow style, you just proved it.
I'm with you. I like your antidote to despair. let's work!
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ourbluenation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
48. If this doesn't make the case for keeping a Democrat in the Whitehouse, I don't know what else does.
scotus appointments...hello!
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. Why accept that "Nine Platonic Guardians" have sweeping dictatorial power over whole system?
I understand the importance of appointments but just caution in buying into the legitimacy of whatever the supreme court does. They made a power grab, we need not endorse it as if it's "our fault" for not electing the right president or something. (your point stands but is separate)
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ourbluenation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. respectfully disagree. if the last few appointments were made by a dem...
the "corporations are people" memo would never have seen the light of day. By making it a free speech issue, the 5 of the 9 make it impossible to overcome outside of amending the constitution. Corporations as people will lead to more repubs in office which will directly effect public policy and we are the public. I never said anything about dictorial power, but hell yes scotus appointments matter a TON.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #50
55. MY comment turns on who's to blame for scotus going way out on limb for power
and, the blame in my view is not on the voters or anyone else. SCOTUS went WAAYYY out fo its way on this case in a way a reasonable person should not anticipate EVEN from republican appointees -- Like Souter for example, appointed by the Senior Bush.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #55
132. Souter went for this? Sorry I haven't read the decisions . . . dissents . ..
been caught up in something else here and haven't read them as yet ---

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2 Much Tribulation Donating Member (522 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-28-10 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #132
164. Souter's no longer on the court (replaced by Sotomayor) n/t
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #50
131. That "dem" could have been Lieberman .... had something happened to Gore . .
I haven't seen a larger Trojan Horse than Lieberman . ..




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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #49
130. Exactly . .. and you've made me curious as to what, if anything, the
founders might have said about dealing with the possibilities of this

becoming a dictatorship?

Can't do searches right now -- but eventually.

Founders did comment on need for "suspending" presidency when we think there

is conspiracy between President and VP!

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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #130
146. The keys are deep understanding of inalienable rights AND voidness of illegitimate actions contrary
thereto. A 5-4 decision is one single human being's opinion. That is no burden at all, until people start giving it power by pretending its an invincible wall when it is a voidness and nothing unless and until we each give it power.

Jefferson" Public opinion exerts an independent force in EVERY form of government.

That is: even in a dictatorship, a dictator can not maintain action as against a supermajority (for sure) of the citizens for very long. Basically un-free societies impose supermajority requirements as opposed to 50% plus one vote in a democracy or republic

First step is to make sure we don't hand over our power to those we don't support when they do radical deeds against the will of the people and our true constitution. The word is "usurpers" of power - they are always around. They're pretenders to democracy. Why give pretenders to democracy so much power??

Why do we have rights? Because we were BORN, that's why. No other reason.

Inalienable - means we can't lose our most basic rights even if we try to give them up. Even bankruptcy and divorce are inalienable rights - contracts to give up these rights are VOID as even courts recognize. Other examples apply- one can't waive their righ to self-defense.

It's a real simple issue in the end once it's understood: a clear violation of right, like some stranger shoving their hand down your pocket trying to steal your property and violate your person. Is that the point at which you "give up in despair" or is that the point at which you don't compromise until justice has been restored by the removal of the trespasser (so to speak) completely?

Thomas Paine's topical advice for the present moment:

"It is never to be expected in a revolution that every man is to change his opinion at the same moment. There never yet was any truth or any principle so irresistibly obvious that all men believed it at once. Time and reason must cooperate with each other to the final establishment of any principle; and therefore those who may happen to be first convinced have not a right to persecute others, on whom conviction operates more slowly. The moral principle of revolutions is to instruct, not to destroy."


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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
51. Very well said.
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Autumn Colors Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
52. K&R and spreading to friends (nt)
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bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
53. Fux news is pretty much an organization that already
provides unlimited, unending support for republicans without coming under any campaign funding limitations. Unless we manage to diversify media ownership, campaign funding limitations mean very little.

Even public financing of campaigns will not help resolve this issue.
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Stumbler Donating Member (599 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
54. K & R
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bluesmail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
56. James Bopp jr must be awfully sure of himself and Citizens United
to make those statements. :scared: oh and :thumbsup:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #56
133. James Bopp is also an anti-abortion fanatic, if I recall correctly . . .
Edited on Mon Jan-25-10 08:37 PM by defendandprotect
was he Solicitor General in Poppy Bush era?

Sorry I can't do searches right now -- this is from feint recall!!

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caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
57. What the Supreme Court has done is already bad enough.

They have totally imbalanced elections now. If this is not challenge by Congress, we will not have a free election in this country again.

The they way they went about doing it, having the case altered so that they could make the ruling, shows the fix was already in, and that they knew in advance what their ruling would be on the yet-to-be-argued revised case. So, there's already evidence of a criminal conspiracy there, just in what was done publicly.

It also means these guys lied to Congress when they claimed they were guided by precedent first.

That screams conspiracy and the fix is in. Nobody knows how many other cases they've been set up to throw. More than likely, Choice will also be going, too.

Ironic that Conservatism is such a popular philosophy that it can only win by buying elections.

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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
58. K&R!
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thereismore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
59. SCOTUS will now claim that persons have the right to PRIVACY, therefore secret contributions! nt
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Interesting how they spin this
Because Roe v. Wade is based on privacy.

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thereismore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. Exactly. nt
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2 Much Tribulation Donating Member (522 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #62
73. Bingo, we have a winning subthread!! :) (not a winning PREdiction, a winning Reality today) n/t
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #61
134. Interesting . . . !!!
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Krashkopf Donating Member (965 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
60. Big KICK!
There is NO MORE IMPORTANT ISSUE facing America today.

The only question left is whether Americans will simply accept the new Corporate order, or, whether "We the People" will rise us and oppose this corporate coup with every legal, and political, means at our disposal.

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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
63. Kudos
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
65. It appears that the Right-wing is adopting a "Kill them All; let God sort them out" law of the land.
That's why money is sooooooo important. Money IS life. This also explains why so many so-called Pro-lifers are also advocates of the Prosperity Gospels.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #65
74. Money's life when you'd never be able to convince others to feed you out of your own merit/kindness
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wizstars Donating Member (792 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
67. If the law supposes that, said Mr. Bumble,
the law is a ass, a idiot.
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
68. The shark is back on the prowl.
Hello Paul.

K&R
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NinetySix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
69. Just keeping it kicked.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
70. Manipulating our court system.
Property rightist have been doing the same thing. Forcing issues in the courts to try to establish precedent that benefits landowners/developers. They've been working on it since the mid-eighties. The process has gained momentum in the last ten years because they figured out how to hedge their bets by influencing judges.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
72. Thanks much. Recommended.
Give em hell.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
75. Damn... They must believe 'victory' is inevitable...
Otherwise they'd show more discretion.

The fools have no idea what kind of nightmare they're trying to create, and they don't understand that they'll have to live in it too.

The laws they are trying to eradicate aren't just 'pesky nuisances' to protect the people, they exist to protect the wealthy as well.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #75
85. I think he's a gunslinger, braggadocio, not so much of the confidence you are afraid of
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #85
161. Your opinion is more well-informed than mine. Glad you got a few seconds on NPR
Yesterday.

I would call and suggest they do a full show on the issue.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #75
135. Elite paranoia and greed are suicidal . . . and they're taking us with them!
Edited on Mon Jan-25-10 08:44 PM by defendandprotect
Patriarchy is fascism --

Organized patriarchal religion is fascism --

Capitalism is fascism when unregulated --

And it is all suicidal thinking --

the war on nature, women, on and on --

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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
76. Thank you!
:kick:
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
77. Effin Eh!
Thank you for your fine efforts, Sir!

I have copied and pasted this to e-mail to more advocates outside of DU. Your diligence is very much appreciated.

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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
78. K&R!
OUtstanding work! :kick:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
80. This has been an elite battle against democracy since pre-post-our Constitution . . .
Edited on Mon Jan-25-10 03:21 PM by defendandprotect
Royals simply morphed into capitalists/corporatism --

It's what it's always been and there is never any total protection against it --

except constant vigilance --

We also have to remember that we are betrayed by those closest to us -- that is the

most effective means.

This is a subject we have all been becoming aware of since the 2000 election...

I've been warning about the secret unaccountable computerized vote counts as deadly to democracy and an invitation to open fraud for all those years.

EVERYONE is aware that these voting machines can be hacked --

EVEN MORE ... the large and the individual voting machines began to come in during the

mid-and-late 1960's.

THEREFORE I would suggest to you that every election since that time is in doubt.

Nixon vs Humphrey? Coincidentally, these computers began coming in just as America was

passing The Voting Rights Act!

The LARGE computers are also a concern -- they came in during the early 1960's -- and they

are used by MSM. Previous to these computers, MSM could only report actual vote tallies.

These computers gave them the ability not only to report -- but to PREDICT -- and to CALL

elections for candidates and by state in Federal Elections -- where they would PREDICT and

CALL elections for presidential candidates!

And we saw that power used again in 2000 when Fox/Jon Ellis REVERSED that power to

RECALL Florida from Gore -- and to later RECALL it for Bush!


MOST OF ALL -- please tell me that we all understand the right wing political violence which

has inflicted such damage upon America and our attempt at democracy! From the JFK coup on our

people's government to Martin Luther King, Jr. -- Bobby Kennedy -- on and on -- they no longer

wait for an actual leader to arise and be effective -- they are disappeared early on now at

the first hint of resistance.


Our democracy has been dismantled piece by piece and BOTH parties have contributed to the

dismantling --

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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #80
84. As Jefferson said, the party of people & aristocracy ETERNALLY contest each other
My question for you is what is the upshot of internalizing what you're saying here in terms of repsonding to the only situation we can possibly respond to right now - the one HERE TODAY. Does it make it more or less likely that people will respond and change the dynamic we both agree is not good?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #84
115. Jefferson, you and I are in agreement . . .
I'll try --

but you didn't make clear what YOU think is "the only situation we can possibly respond to right

now -- the one HERE TODAY."


IMO, it's one "situation" -- a situation of fascism having crossed our threshold in America.

Suddenly? No. Probably from around the time we thought we were defeating the Nazis/fascists

in Germany, while many were moving on into other countries, including being brought into the

US by Allen Dulles under "Operation Paperclip."

PLUS our failure to acknowledge and actually deal with right wing here --

The McCarthy Era which was an attack on the ideals of democracy -- and purged liberals

and progressives from government and positions of influence --

and our right wing in America who, btw, had attempted at least one presidential assassination

prior to the coup on JFK. There actually were plans to kill FDR --

See: Smedley Darlington Butler

And, of course, once we admit that reality, we also look to the assassination of Lincoln to

shed more light on how long this political violence has been going on.

And even in recent times, a long list of suspected assassinations - from Daj Hammarskjold

at the United Nation to Adlai Stevenson and on to Paul Wellstone -- JFK, Jr.

Does it make it more or less likely that people will respond and change the dynamic we both agree is not good?

I think the more citizens understand things from the highest perspective the more able they

are to respond.

For instance, does Jefferson's quote hurt or harm response of citizens who may "internalize"

it?

Does a reminder that our Founders advocated "constant vigilance" hurt or harm response?

And from Caesar to JFk the CIA and the Secret Service, how does it harm anyone to recognize

that you can only really be betrayed by those closest to you?

Consider Clinton and the overturning of 60 years of Welfare guarantees? Clinton and trade

agreements? Obama and the new Commission to study "entitlements."

Is an article like this OP harmful in reminding us of computer steals?

How would it help voters not to be aware of the ability of those so inclined to hack the vote?

How would it harm citizens to reflect upon how the 2000 election was stolen, beginning with

the Fox/Jon Ellis recall?

And how does it harm citizen action to understand that this is NOT "conspiracy-free America"?

And how does it harm citizen action to understand that Democrats have been complicit in much

of the destruction of the New Deal?




------------------

REPEATING MY POST . . .

Royals simply morphed into capitalists/corporatism --

It's what it's always been and there is never any total protection against it --

except constant vigilance --

We also have to remember that we are betrayed by those closest to us -- that is the

most effective means.

This is a subject we have all been becoming aware of since the 2000 election...

I've been warning about the secret unaccountable computerized vote counts as deadly to democracy and an invitation to open fraud for all those years.

EVERYONE is aware that these voting machines can be hacked --

EVEN MORE ... the large and the individual voting machines began to come in during the

mid-and-late 1960's.

THEREFORE I would suggest to you that every election since that time is in doubt.

Nixon vs Humphrey? Coincidentally, these computers began coming in just as America was

passing The Voting Rights Act!

The LARGE computers are also a concern -- they came in during the early 1960's -- and they

are used by MSM. Previous to these computers, MSM could only report actual vote tallies.

These computers gave them the ability not only to report -- but to PREDICT -- and to CALL

elections for candidates and by state in Federal Elections -- where they would PREDICT and

CALL elections for presidential candidates!

And we saw that power used again in 2000 when Fox/Jon Ellis REVERSED that power to

RECALL Florida from Gore -- and to later RECALL it for Bush!


MOST OF ALL -- please tell me that we all understand the right wing political violence which

has inflicted such damage upon America and our attempt at democracy! From the JFK coup on our

people's government to Martin Luther King, Jr. -- Bobby Kennedy -- on and on -- they no longer

wait for an actual leader to arise and be effective -- they are disappeared early on now at

the first hint of resistance.


Our democracy has been dismantled piece by piece and BOTH parties have contributed to the

dismantling --


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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #115
148. Help or hurt is an important consideration; it's the thing to be sensitive to, but the bottom line
is this:

Americans, though their dream is constantly hijacked for other purposes, nevertheless remember the real dream when they hear it in abolition, Lincoln, women's suffrage, civil rights, I Have a Dream.

Subgroups can bond around particular language and concepts, but the real test is just this: THese guys, whatever they are, are fakers, usurpers, it's not the real dream and it's not US.

Once the above is nailed down, then I ask you:

Do you think americans can really lose a moral struggle for their own country's most precious ideals ON THEIR OWN SOIL? No, NOT IF THEY REALIZE THIS IS WHAT IT IS!

The only ways to fail is (a) not to keep our eyes on the prize and know the dream, and see the difference clearly with what IS at present, and (b) failure or refusal to engage and educate our fellow people so that they, too, may see.

Once again, I can't quote Paine too much, he speaks to the enormity of the task as well as the tendency towards impatience and frustration:

"It is never to be expected in a revolution that every man is to change his opinion at the same moment. There never yet was any truth or any principle so irresistibly obvious that all men believed it at once. Time and reason must cooperate with each other to the final establishment of any principle; and therefore those who may happen to be first convinced have not a right to persecute others, on whom conviction operates more slowly. The moral principle of revolutions is to instruct, not to destroy."


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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #148
158. I think you and I are in the same . . .
church -- if not in the same pew . . .

I do recognize that the use of "internalize" is sometimes meant to suggest something

that weakens an individual --

But, again, I don't think that knowing the truth from the highest persective can do

anything but strengthen one's understanding of what's going down and what has gone down!


I don't think Americans really have a "dream" except to be left the hell alone!

That's why so many have extended the work day and worked on Saturdays rather than trying

to form unions. Rather than making waves. You say to some of them bragging about the

extra work and time they've put in . . . "Well, what will it be like for your kids now?

Will they have to move cots into their office buildings to catch a few winks?" And they

look very surprised that anyone is posing such a question to them. Their kids get it tho!!


I'm not saying that they don't believe in FREEDOM AND PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS ... IN LIBERTY!

HUMAN RIGHTS . . . THAT'S BUILT IN. EQUALITY FOR ALL.


AND I DO THINK THAT MOST OF US RECOGNIZE THAT THIS IS FASCISM . . .

CORPORATE FASCISM -- and that reality is reflected in ALL that these people have to control.

The only way the right wing can rise to power is the same way they ever have --

THRU VIOLENCE.

Yeah -- lies, misinformation, right wing propaganda, intimidation -- but mainly VIOLENCE!!

Whether it was the guy who wanted your land and would rape your daughter and kill your son

to get it, or ExxonMobil who can buy anything they want in Washington . . . it's the same.

Re this . . .

Do you think americans can really lose a moral struggle for their own country's most precious ideals ON THEIR OWN SOIL? No, NOT IF THEY REALIZE THIS IS WHAT IT IS!

I think you're asking the wrong question.

The question more likely is can Americans be intimidated into silence -- as people in other

nations have been -- by violence, torture, economic shock, being put into psycho wards, having

chemicals injected into them to disrupt their brain workings -- etal!!??

I think on most websites and all over the internet people are trying like hell to educate

themselves and others. How much longer will we have the internet?

I don't know that this time next year we'll still have Jon Stewart!

IMO, MSNBC has given us Olbermann and Rachel for a time to knock out Jon --

Re Paine and "impatience" -- I'd say that overlooking right wing political violence in

America for the past almost 50 years is being too patient!

"It is never to be expected in a revolution that every man is to change his opinion at the same moment. There never yet was any truth or any principle so irresistibly obvious that all men believed it at once. Time and reason must cooperate with each other to the final establishment of any principle; and therefore those who may happen to be first convinced have not a right to persecute others, on whom conviction operates more slowly. The moral principle of revolutions is to instruct, not to destroy."

How long should it take for citizens to understand the schizophrenic nature of our

Constitution re patriarchy vs women, for instance?

re patriarchy vs people of color, for instance?

re patriarchy vs native Americans, for instance?

We ALL understand that immediately in our 1-2-3rd classes in elementary school!

But something convinces us to not take up those issues -- right?


What about the millions who have sat in churches every Sunday listening to patriarchal

gibberish which suggests that women are to be "subservient" -- that they are "inferior"?

What about all the years of Christian preaching re Jews? No one knew that was wrong?


What about our economic system -- capitalism -- based on exploitation?

No one recognizes that?

Exploitation or nature, natural resources, animal-life -- and even of other human beings

according to various myths of "inferiority"????

THAT particular system is intended to move the wealth of a nation and its natural resources

from the many to the few!

Patriarchy, organized patriarchal religion -- capitalism -- are all fascism --

and ALL SUICIDAL CONCEPTS as we can readily see from the damage to the planet --

and Global Warming!





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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
81. I've sent the article around. Thanks for posting.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #81
86. MUCHO Appreciated, hopefully others follow suit. Can reformat if they want and sign it as ...
Land Shark
agent003@wildmail.com (for contact purposes if needed)
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #86
90. Read this and pass on:
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #90
156. Thanks for EJ Dionne! n/t
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
82. Lord Acton had some interesting observations, Paul, perhaps not unrelated
to aspects of this matter:

'And remember, where you have a concentration of power in a few hands, all too frequently men with the mentality of gangsters get control. History has proven that.'

'Every thing secret degenerates, even the administration of justice; nothing is safe that does not show how it can bear discussion and publicity.'

You don't get the impression that their 10-year plan was exactly open for discussion for most of the period, do you?
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
83. Land Shark, Can't we demand a constitutional amendment that will
insure that corporations -- whether for profit or non-profit do not have the free speech rights of other humans.

Until then, can't the speech rights of all be subjected to reasonable regulation? And couldn't those regulations include limits on campaign contributions and independent issue campaigns?

Also, how does the Supreme Court decision affect organizations like Move-On.Org?
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #83
88. You ask good questions but ones with complex answers. Let's organize, but not off a cliff, for ONE

Yes a const amendment is one route, but it oguht to be a proper amendment and while I want to support the direction, any specific amendment at this point that's "out there" is not completely thought through. The opinions ar 190 pages alone, and one read doesn't digest all. Then the drafting of the amendment has to anticipate all in order to justify the energy to rally all behind it.

COrporations like move on are affected as well but there are nuances based on whether they are (c)(3) or (C)(4), 527s or PACS, C Corporations or S corporations, etc.

Discussion to be continued later?
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #88
105. Yes. Discussion to be continued later. Thank you.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #88
139. Since the days of Teddy Roosevelt we've understood we have to "bar corporations
from any participation whatsoever in our elections!"

Simple understanding --

No mention of corporations in our Constitutiton --

the power of capital was feared by the founders --

Corporations can't vote, can't marry, don't breathe, don't have children,

don't need medical care, have no conscience -- on what basis could even the

most corrupt of decisions find "personhood" in that?

In fact, if I recall correctly our Constitution doesn't acknowledge the full

personhood of females as it acknowledges the full personhood of males!!

Same re Vatican!!

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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
87. The garden, the landscape of the mind, was abandoned, turned into a junkyard.....
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #87
89. One has the freedom of their mind, even in jail. It can't be defiled without consent. BUT
that being said, if this is an expression of your emotional revulsion at all that's happened, just know that I'm with you on that account, without real hesitation.

I don't like to give so much power to the negative forces, absent the horrors of periods of torture, the mind is free and can't be "turned into a junkyard" agians the consent of an aware person at least. I realize "it can happen" though, to good people, whose minds are affected but I just thing we should not treat that as inevitable.

It need not last even very long - I know this is not likely this moment, but given a national tv audience, promoted, and an hour and a half debate, any number of people I hope including myself would have the skills to make America (the rest of it) "wake up" pretty darn quick. We don't need to teach anything new about anticorruption when it comes to money the vast majority already believe that, they just have to be mobilized, that's all.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #89
93. Yes
We agree. Thank you for a fascinating OP.

I picked up on this phrase:

"America is a landscape of the mind: we have to tend our garden, people. EVERY ACTION - Every single one, is preceded by an idea and an inspiration. Ideas are the fountain and the source of action, and the well is being poisoned. See Citizens United."

And commented in terms of "we." I agree on the point of the individual... at this point, it's all we have. The organizers can rally and rabble rouse, now that the sky has fallen.

:thumbsup:
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #93
96. Yes. !
Real change agents, including revolutionaries, have to be on guard against schadenfreude, because when things get real bad, change possibilities are maximized. THINK: SHOCK AND AWE (on the other side of the coin - volatile conditions, bad conditions....)

Though folks may be processing understandable anger and grief, to drop out NOW is, like, the worst possible timing, it seems. I trust that's not what a few people are saying here. Then I suppose there's a few demobilizers among us. One has to expect it IF one loves one's country (even in a twisted way) it's worth investing in and that includes investing in what are called trolls for lack of a better term, to help with the demobilization of the other side. One never knows who they are, and I don't believe in trying to find out, even though they are virtually certain to exist.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #96
102. It's completely
rational to "drop out now." If one has devoted due diligence and life choices, warning ahead of time,
watching the lemmings -- not walk over a cliff but straight into damn wall -- giving them the benefit of the doubt ........
for a looooooong time; now let those who got smacked in the face with the reality, let them pick up and carry on!! Good luck!! Best wishes!!!

The difference between those who want to wait until it's too late and those who sound the alarm ahead of time is, the belief in what is -- or isn't -- possible to repair.

We failed our civics test.

Will those who never got it before really be capable of making necessary changes now? :shrug:
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snake in the grass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
91. George Carlin was right.
In the end, they are going to get it all. RIP USA.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #91
92. over your dead body or shrugging shoulders? Seriously. n/t
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snake in the grass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #92
142. It remains to be seen if it will be over my dead body.
In any case, it won't be over my shrugging shoulders. In the real world, I'm very vocal about these things to the point of being something of a preacher. However, I tend to believe that most U.S. citizens aren't suffering enough to really care one way or another. As long as they have their 'Dancing with the Stars' and a 24/7 McDonald's nearby, they're quite happy. Things will have to get worse before critical mass can be reached.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #91
94. When does Jesus bring the pork chops?
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snake in the grass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #94
143. We'll have to ask Sarah Palin.
I'm sure she can answer that one.

}(

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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #91
116. I still miss that man.
Let's have a :toast: to that Carlin dude.

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snake in the grass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #116
159. Cheers to that! n/t
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
95. No time to read it now, but I'll come back to this thread for sure.
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Slit Skirt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
97. a kick for democracy
:kick:
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
99. K&R
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
100. Great words of advice from Thomas Paine, the architect of the American Revolution
Dedicated to those of you who have labored in the vineyards for a while:

"It is never to be expected in a revolution that every man is to change his opinion at the same moment. There never yet was any truth or any principle so irresistibly obvious that all men believed it at once. Time and reason must cooperate with each other to the final establishment of any principle; and therefore those who may happen to be first convinced have not a right to persecute others, on whom conviction operates more slowly. The moral principle of revolutions is to instruct, not to destroy."



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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #100
136. I hope this quote plays into further installments
as we get further into this.

:thumbsup:
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #136
150. It's a good theme-quote, amenable to repetition without loss of value. n.t
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #100
163. +1 (can't rec that quote enough!) n/t
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Christa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
101. Kick for Democracy NT
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
103. 1/17/08
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #103
144. +1
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
104. KnR! Thank you! n/t
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bergie321 Donating Member (797 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
106. The fact
That they can lay their plan for Fascism (real Fascism not tea party fascism) right out in the open and half of the country has been brainwashed into thinking it is a good thing.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
107. "...all enemies, foreign AND domestic..."
Great piece, Land Shark.

How many times do we have to save this country??

K&R.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
108. They've always wanted this, I'm sure of it.
The only change is that they are being so open about it. They must know that the 24 % who don't care/don't want limits are willing to serve as a human shield for a few years from us 76 %. This next decade is going to be "interesting times", so to speak.
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Lesleymo Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
109. This is truly scary stuff
Thank you for the information. The recent SCOTUS decision is scary enough on its own. In this context, it's even worse.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
110. knr and thank you! n/t
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
111. K and definitely R!
:kick:
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
112. Secret until we are treated to: "Welcome to the Enron Presidency of 2016."
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
113. K&R. //nt
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janet118 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
114. K&RRRRRR!
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scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
117. Hot damn Land Shark - Thanks as always! -nt
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
118. K&R. nt
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stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
120. I wonder how do they get "citizen control" if they are attacking democracy?
It seems to me they are interested in control by some citizens while leaving most citizens out.
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
140. K&R
They're not afraid to have their agenda published now - what does this mean for us? Is there still a way to fight this?
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #140
149. Just loose lips -. Lying low now. Seen him on all the talk shows after NYT? NOPE. n /t
Edited on Mon Jan-25-10 09:48 PM by Land Shark
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Kip Humphrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
141. K&R because the loss of our democracy demands persistent resistance
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
147. K&R
read it on the train home, very good post.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
151. K and R
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FourScore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
152. Unbelievable. K&R
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
153. KR. nt
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eecumings Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
154. Absolutely Correct
When the Supremes handed the presidentcy to Wanker Bush in 2000, these plans were already underway. W just needed to appoint a few more wingers as judges. Now we are beginning to see why Wanker's election was so important. And if you want to know about W's third term, read this from Common Dreams:
Published on Friday, January 22, 2010 by CommonDreams.org
How to Squander the Presidency in One Year
Hey, Conan Obama: How About Now? Can You Hear Us Now?

by David Michael Green

The American people have been screwed so badly, I don't see a possible recovery.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-25-10 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
155. NPR All Things Considered Story earlier this evening on Bopp and disclosure, post-CU case (link)
NPR's All Things Considered on Monday January 25 re transparency in campaign disclosures

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12...

Note that Bopp is out there but slightly mellowing his claims.
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diva77 Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
157. Kick! sorry I saw this too late to rec as well!!
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