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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 04:58 PM
Original message
Chavez says U.S. occupying Haiti in name of aid

CARACAS
Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:34pm EST
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez addresses lawmakers during his annual report to the National Assembly in Caracas January 15, 2010. REUTERS/Miraflores Palace/Handout

CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez on Sunday accused the United States of using Tuesday's earthquake in Haiti as a pretext to occupy the devastated Caribbean country.

World | Natural Disasters

"I read that 3,000 soldiers are arriving, Marines armed as if they were going to war. There is not a shortage of guns there, my God. Doctors, medicine, fuel, field hospitals, that's what the United States should send," Chavez said on his weekly television show. "They are occupying Haiti undercover."

"On top of that, you don't see them in the streets. Are they picking up bodies? ... Are they looking for the injured? You don't see them. I haven't seen them. Where are they?"

A perennial foe of U.S. "imperialism," Chavez said he did not wish to diminish the humanitarian effort made by the United States and was only questioning the need for so many troops.

The United States is sending more than 5,000 Marines and soldiers to Haiti, and a hospital ship is due to arrive later this week.

On Sunday the country's president said U.S. troops would help keep order on Haiti's increasingly lawless streets.

<snip>

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60G2DW20100117

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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. Dumbass
:eyes:
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
106. The sheer groundswell of hatred and jingoism on this thread shows how humans in large numbers behave
Edited on Mon Jan-18-10 01:26 AM by Leopolds Ghost
Rally, rally behind your leaders. Pro patria mori.

The problem with Hugo's statement is that it is old news.

Totally standard and already known.

Haiti already IS a US Protectorate, fools. Of course we have an interest in sending in the military to secure it, not (say) France.

Just like Rwanda is a military protectorate of France and Belgium, and Sierra Leone is one for Britain.

Whenever mass death happens in those countries the colonial power thast created the government there is the one responsible for protecting assets.

As DWB, UNWFP and ICRC are saying, saving lives is the second priority.

Unfortunately the vast majority of DUers are not educated on the subject of neocolonialism and the Monroe Doctrine.

They do not deserve to be commenting on foreign policy if they are utterly ignorant of US objectives in Latin America.
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Itchinjim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. Shut up Hugo.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
80. !Callate!
!Cierra la boca grande!
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #80
103. Even better !Hugo, Porque no te Callas!
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 11:39 PM by stevenleser
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. any minute now- someone will say he's been misquoted.
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hileeopnyn8d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. More likely
a chorus of DUers agreeing with him.
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Duende azul Donating Member (608 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
48. So I'll do you a favour: Yes, I agree with him.
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 06:13 PM by Duende azul
Read this and you know where the US is going longterm.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/LatinAmerica/wm2754.cf...

And have in mind Hillary`s "generous" statement: "We will be here today, tomorrow'and for the time ahead."
As a Haitian, I would worry.

Chavez is right.
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demosincebirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. As a Haitian you would worry? yep, I'm sure thats what their concern is at this time.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #48
55. haitians have a bit more than that to concern them. something that seems
to entirely elude you.
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demosincebirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Enlighten me, please.
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #56
62. You might have heard about an earthquake that recently struck Haiti, for openers.


Sheesh.
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demosincebirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. No shit Dick Tracy! What do you think I was refering too? sheesh!
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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
4. As time goes on he turns himself into more of a joke.
If we did nothing, he would bitch about that too.
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1awake Donating Member (852 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. He is a joke...
a very scary one unfortunately.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
6. That's comical. What's colonialism spelled backward?
There's nothing in Haiti the US even remotely wants... no diplomatic or military or economic importance... no tactical or strategic value...

Just 9+ million people in need.

Even W. wouldn't have wanted to conquer Haiti.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. No one grandstands like Hugo.
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happy_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. Why did the CIA remove Aristide?
?
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. Maybe because he cared about the people...nt
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happy_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. oh I agree
that is why this statement makes no sense

"There's nothing in Haiti the US even remotely wants... no diplomatic or military or economic importance... no tactical or strategic value..."


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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #29
49. In the game of Risk...
anything goes...especially as its so close to US and Cuba...
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
36. You are very misinformed about the history of the U.S. and Haiti
Regardless of what Chavez has to say about the current humanitarian efforts on the part of the U.S., he and other South American countries are well aware of that history and have every reason to worry about the presence of U.S. troops in Haiti.

As for 'W' not wanting to conquer Haiti, wrong again as the recent history of that country so tragically demonstrates.

The U.S. backed coup of Haiti's first democratically elected president proves otherwise. The U.S. has always had interests in Haiti and many prominent Americans have profited from their interference in Haiti's affairs.

If we had a media that ever did actual reporting Americans in general would not be so unaware of what their government has been involved in and the pain and suffering it has caused even to the people of Haiti by its support of brutal dictators.

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demosincebirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #36
54. I'm sure that the U.S.'s interest in Haiti is in its abundance of its natural resources. nt
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 06:27 PM by demosincebirth
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #54
72. It's interesting that you would think Haiti had nothing of value
to offer.

Clearly you need to some research as your statement shows a sad ignorance of the facts and history of the relationship between Haiti and the U.S. Haiti certainly does have resources that have kept the interest of the Global Capitalists for nearly 200 years. Not the least of which was the exploitation of what can only be called the 'slave labor' of Haitians working for less than a pittance to enrich Western overlords. One of the reasons, protection of our 'interests' that the U.S. occupied Haiti in the early 20th century.

Aristedes' plan to increase the minimum wage of his people, to provide education for them and lift them out of poverty, was not a popular idea with their wealthy, western overlords and among other things, was the reason for the U.S. backed coup against him. An educated population expecting a livable wage does not serve the purposes of greedy capitalists.

The people of Haiti had plenty of resources that were of interest to western capitalists. I find it odd that anyone would assume otherwise.

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demosincebirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #72
78. "nothing of value?" Don't try and put words in my mouth.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #54
127. 7 billion dollars in gdp, most of which goes into the pockets of the international financial
"community" and "investors".

haiti has been a cash cow for the west for 200 years.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #36
100. Well said.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #36
113. Here's some history...in case any missed it...
Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

my OP but I have no ownership, its the truth that needs to be known.
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
129. msilainoloc?
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etherealtruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
9. Chavez says a lot of things
... so does Sarah Palin ... and a lot of other people that have managed to speak out orifices other than their mouths.

I usually try to ignore the flatulence.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
76. Palin and Chavez. Kind of a stretch. She seems to be pretty far right
On the other hand Chavez is pretty left leaning and tends to be on the wrong side of our right wing leaders like the Bushes. I would think Palin would be anti-Chavez if she figured out who he is.
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Goldstein1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #76
107. Agreed. Chavez's biggest liabilities from the perspective of the
United States?

Being a socialist.
Being a democratically elected socialist.
Being a democratically elected socialist spreading socialism in our backyard.
Being a democratically elected socialist spreading socialism in our backyard while thumbing his nose at U.S. Presidents.

And a 2009 Report on the economic status of Venezuela suggests he policies are more effective for his people than trickledown neoliberalism has been for the poor in the U.S. While we're been slipping, Venezuela has been gaining ground.
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etherealtruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 03:58 AM
Response to Reply #76
111. I was referring to idiocy ... not political affiliation
Sadly, idiotic statements are not always limited to those on the right :(
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #111
126. True but idiotic statements are not, necessarily, a reason for wholesale condemnation of an elected
official.

Many here seem to jump on any verbal gaffe of Chavez as evidence he should not be in power when he has, clearly, been elected by the people of Venezuela twice. It was, likely, a stupid thing to say but I think he has reason for concern while we build military bases next door in Columbia. I am tired of our government deposing the left leaning elected leaders in that part of the world and installing right wing dictators. I would be far happier if we had leaders a little more to the left of where most are.
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Flaneur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
10. We do have a long history of military interventions and occupations in Haiti.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
11. Imagine if Cuba occupied the Dominican Republic for similiar reasons
I can see Chavez's concern.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. we aren't occupying Haiti. period.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Right. I should have said "intervened".
My bad.
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Distributing aid is "intervening?"
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 05:26 PM by chrisa
I'm sure there's some people there happy for our "intervention."
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. When you are doing it with aircraft carriers and military personnel, yes.
I support what they are doing, I'm just saying that I can understand Chavez's concern.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:44 PM
Original message
+1
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
51. You're right. We should be doing it with buttercups and rainbows.
Because what's important right now is that we make Hugo Chavez happy.
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:29 PM
Original message
That aircraft carrier
will supply electricity and clean drinking water to Haitians via its nuclear reactor power plant. You have a better portable source for desalinization and electricity generation? If not then STFU.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #16
74. Yes, what's really needed is a cruise ship
Sorry, I think anything less than an aircraft carrier would be a failure. I mean, what other examples do you have that are capable of taking over things like air traffic control on short notice?
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. Not to mention desalinization and power.
Hard to find a Princess liner with a nuclear reactor onboard.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. so you don't think the Haitians are welcoming those helicoptors
distributing water and food? I think you're wrong. You don't think they want the port repaired so that aid ships can dock? I think you're wrong.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. See #16.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. you can't do it without the military resources.
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votingupstart Donating Member (535 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #22
37. n/t
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 05:58 PM by votingupstart
replied to wrong person
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Duende azul Donating Member (608 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #22
88. Why is that? How sad that the US seem to have allocated all their resources in the military.

I can understand the deep breath o relief that it must be to once be able to cheer the military without remorse. Especially for liberals this must be a rare occasion.

And there comes Hugo and spoils your party.

Did you read the Heritage foundation-link I gave above?
http://www.heritage.org/Research/LatinAmerica/wm2754.cf...

Their conclusion is as follows:

" U.S. should therefore do the following:

* President Obama should tap high-level, bipartisan leadership. Clearly former President Clinton, the U.N. special envoy to Haiti, is a logical choice and is already coordinating the international responses with the U.N. President Obama should also reach out to a senior Republican figure, perhaps former President George W. Bush, to lead the bipartisan effort for the Republicans.
* Congress should begin work on a package of assistance, trade, and reconstruction efforts needed to put Haiti on its feet and open the way for deep and lasting democratic reforms.
* The U.S. also needs a strong and vigorous public diplomacy effort to counter negative propaganda emanating from the Castro-Chvez camp and demonstrate that U.S. leadership and involvement in the Caribbean remains a powerful force for good."

Well, in that list you can already check the point about Dubya.
And if you read the whole piece, you will find "trade" (you know what that means in neocon world, right?), war on drugs, involvement of faith based communities and more crap of that kind. And in various places they stress the rivalry towards Venezuela and Cuba. That seems to be their main concern. These folks don't waste a minute if they see an opportunity like this.

So Venezuela has every reason to be concerned.



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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #88
89. Guess costa rica can handle it. Since they have no military
they should be all set.
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votingupstart Donating Member (535 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #19
42. anonymous171 - i am interested to see what other organizations you think can put together a relief
package that includes technically trained, proficient, ready personnel/equipment/supplies/food/water/medical supplies in an organized deployable self-contained package faster than the Military.

having worked in disaster preparedness and response and having worked in Haiti - i would be very interested to find some organization that had half the assets, personnel and ability to tackle problems than the military - because when i was there we couldn't find any.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #42
93. FEMA, of course
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 10:18 PM by Hippo_Tron
They did such a bang up job in New Orleans, they can definitely handle Haiti.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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votingupstart Donating Member (535 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 06:46 AM
Response to Reply #93
112. well played Sir... :) n/t
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #12
69. I didn't believe you until you wrote, "period".
That was the clincher.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. ah, the power of the rhetorical flourish. n/t
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #70
73. Oh, there's a power in it, all right. n/t
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Duende azul Donating Member (608 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
84. wait and see
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #12
118. For one rare time, we agree.
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
14. You know, I doin't think he is a total waste as a leader but when he says stupid things like this
I just have to shake my head.
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kentauros Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. I agree, although my first thought was
"attention whore" ;)
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Ha! That is exactly what he is. He does some good things for his people
and then he turns around and slams the US constantly. No one is perfect, including Chavez.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. Slamming the US and helping his people
are not related except where he slams the US for helping people for non-altruistic reasons.
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #30
71. Like he is doing right now. What is in Haiti that the US can use?
There is no oil, etc. there. The only thing he could say is that it would make us look heartless.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #25
77. I think he's a little nervous about the bases we are building in Columbia
and I don't blame him. He may be off about this but I know he does not trust the US and he has good reason not to.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #77
94. Right there...
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 10:39 PM by maryf
The US is nervous about the leftward turn of much in Latin America, and some ask about Honduras, and wonder about so many troops to aid Honduras...
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
21. Oh fuck you, Hugo!
:grr:
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
23. increasingly lawless streets.
Because they are going crazy from lack of food and water...
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. of course, but sorry, there are no magic wands
you can't just teleport in food water and medicine.
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Prometheus Bound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
26. Ortega warns of US deployment in Haiti
Nicaraguan President Daniel Ortega says that the United States has taken advantage of the massive quake in Haiti and deployed troops in the country.

"What is happening in Haiti seriously concerns me as US troops have already taken control of the airport," Ortega said on Saturday.

More: http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=116347§ionid=3...
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
28. Exit strategy
When will we leave and what will it look like when we do?

If we can come up with this ASAP, the Haitians might feel a bit more at ease.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. When there is a compliant government in place, nt
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happy_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. no, we can't leave now
If we leave the Haitians will attack each other. We can't leave until Haliburton is able to 'rebuild'.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Gawd
That's an awful thought. But may be all too real.

You can bet they are licking their chops.
All that cheap labor and all the 'free money'.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. If we leave now tens of thousands of Haitians will die, dear. it's really that simple.
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Duende azul Donating Member (608 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #32
86. And not before Blackwater can jump in to manage security.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. really? you actually think that the Haitian people are worried about the U.S. leaving?
you don't think they have more pressing concerns, like surviving?
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. Not now,
But give them a few months and hell yeah.

We look like Angels at this point, and lets hope we look like Angels when we leave.

How long will we be there? It is a good question.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. yes, it's a fair question, but really, I don't think there's any desire
to keep a military force in Haiti for a prolonged period of time. It's not like the military stayed on indefinitely after the tsunami.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #40
46. Well
We do have Gitmo just a few miles away.

Whatever, we need an exit idea. Any good planning has an end result to shoot for.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Strong reasons for your concerns:
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #46
60. And I'm sure once the damage assessments and other evaluations are complete they'll have one.
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Regret My New Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. For what would purpose would it serve to stay?
I mean, if the US wanted to have huge numbers troops there, I'm sure Haitian government would have gladly exchanged that for some money even without a disaster.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. we were there
Clinton sent troops in, IIRC, and Ill bet the Haitians were glad to see them leave. Maybe not.

And, we did occupy them years ago.

Ya think they'd want to become a state?
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #45
105. A whole bunch of DUers do, indeed think they want to be a state. See "Haiti 51st State?" thread.
The consensus was "they don't DESERVE to be a state. Too poor and corrupt"

This was on DU... no I am not kidding.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. Some are angry
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 05:58 PM by maryf
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5guma...

The article is mainly about how the US controlling the airport are making getting Americans out a priority, other non-Haitians being put off, but this is at the loss of coordination of aid and supplies:

"Still, with aid continuing to flood into the quake-stricken country, concern remains about the lack of coordination at the airport, and across devastated Port-au-Prince.

"The Haitians haven't been notified about the arrival of planes. And when they do land, there's no one to take charge and a large amount of goods are arriving without coordination," said Haitian government official Michel Chancy.

On Port-au-Prince's streets, the consequences of the coordination breakdown are clear, as traumatized and starving quake survivors approached passing foreigner and begged them for food."

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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. uh, that article does not back up your claim.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. I was editting my post
to point out the section I wished to stress; kindly reread it. Thanks!!
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #28
53. I think the Haitians will feel more at ease when they have water and food
...but that's just me.

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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #53
87. I believe you are right
Food, water, and a shelter that keeps the next rain from drenching and muddying all their belongings. Right now, medical care for hundreds of thousands is needed.

When their injured are healed, they have food, water and shelter, then yes, they will feel more at ease.

And then they'll have a hurricane blow in, eh?
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
50. DOUCHEBAGGERY!
DOUBLE DOUCHEBAGGERY!
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
57. Why does he always choose the role of idiot dictator?
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
58. He sounds like an internet warrior
Picking and choosing his outrages and completely ignoring all the good that is being done - also known as "argument by selective observation". You'll note that 90% of arguments here are a combination of the former with a few strawmen thrown in for good measure.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
59. c'mon hugo, join in the occupation and bring a shitload of water....asshole
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #59
68. Venezuela has been helping Haiti for years.
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 06:57 PM by sabrina 1
They have sent millions of dollars in aid to the country as well as doctors, supplies and materials to help build the country's infrastructure.

Last year when Haiti was hit by devastating hurricanes eg, Venezuela and Cuba were there helping out.

This is from last Fall eg:

http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/view/9066/1/375 /

Bill Clinton Praises Cuban and Venezuelan Aid to Haiti

HAVANA, Cuba, Oct 1 (acn) Former US President Bill Clinton, now appointed as UN special envoy to Haiti, praised the support given by Cuba and Venezuela to that Caribbean nation to improve its precarious social and economic situation.

Granma newspaper reported this Thursday that the acknowledgement is part of a report presented by Clinton to the Americas Conference in Miami.

said that the last time he was in Haiti he inquired about what was being done in terms of prevention prior to the hurricane season and he learned that (Venezuelan president) Hugo Chavez had donated $87 million.

Haiti used the money to purchase machinery to remove land at the places that were affected by the floods caused by last years hurricanes.


More:

Foreign Aid to Haiti

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_aid_to_Haiti#Aid_f...

Haiti has benefited from a solid economic partnership with Venezuela. This recently-forged friendship between Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez and Haitian president Rene Preval has resulted in various economic agreements. After a visit by Chavez in March 2007, Venezuela and Cuba announced a $1 Billion fund to develop energy, health, and infrastructure in Haiti. As part of this deal, 4 power plants will be constructed in Port-au-Prince, Cap-Haitien, and Gonaives, increasing the country's power production by 160 MW by the end of 2007. An oil refinery will also be constructed in Haiti, with a production capacity of 10,000 barrels of oil per day. In the meantime, Venezuela has increased the amount of petroleum it provides Haiti to 14,000 barrels per day, at the same terms afforded to ALBA member countries - these terms are more favorable than the Petrocaribe terms.

Venezuela's assistance to Haiti is founded upon a historic act where the newly-independent Haiti welcomed and tended to first Francisco de Miranda, then to Simn Bolvar and provided both with military assistance in the liberation of much of South America.


Venezuela was among the first on the ground in Haiti once again after this Earthquake hit bringing in supplies of water, food, doctors etc. Not hard to find just using the magic Google search engine.

You may now return to your vitriolic, mindless anti-Chavez ranting, hopefully with a little more knowledge of what you are saying from now on. It looks like Hugo has been doing his part to help that poor country. What exactly have YOU done over the past number of years while Haiti went through some of its worst turmoil? When the people of Haiti were starving and eating dirt not so long ago, looks like Hugo was trying to alleviate their suffering.

Hate him if it makes you feel good, but I doubt the people of Haiti share your opinion of Chavez.

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happy_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #68
81. wow, great post!
I had no idea (but could have guessed) that Chavez was already helping out.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #81
92. Thank you. Reading this thread is simply
mind-boggling. It is what I would know I would find on a Freeper site.

Chavez is absolutely right to fear the motives of the U.S. government considering the history right up to at least the end of the Bush administration of interventionalism that devasted the people of those countries. And he is not alone.

The hatred for Chavez displayed on a progressive site simply makes no logical sense. He IS a 'leftie', the kind of democratically elected leader of a S.A. country hated by the likes of Reagan and Bush.

He knows well the history of the U.S. in that region of the world and is under no illusions that despite the sweeping changes that have taken place throughout the region, with U.S. supported dictators being thrown out of office and replaced by elected leaders, that the interests of the U.S. in the resources of those countries continue to pose a threat to their right to be independent and to control their own resources. There is no doubt that all those emerging democracies remain vulnerable to U.S. interventionism.

I would have thought that at least Democrats would oppose the policies that impoverished and brutalized those populations for so long, under the guise of the then 'boogie man', Communism.

Very sad to read the knee-jerk and clearly uninformed responses in this thread.
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #92
125. Correct, Sabrina. I'm appalled at the concerted effort
to discredit Chavez.

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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #92
131. +1000

Thank you for your posts in this thread! :thumbsup:
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #68
91. Great if they believe him that makes the US / UN job even more dangerous
now that a shitstain like hugo is telling people we are invading. Hugo uses money he gets from selling oil to us to push his agenda. Here have some discounted oil poor people, however I will still push for $100 a bbl rates. He is a turd and this just goes into the pile of Hugo antics to prove he is a turd.

Hope oil stay low, then he will be looking over his shoulder at his military to see who is going to stamp him and take his job.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #68
115. You should make this your own OP
Cheers!! :applause: :applause: :applause:
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #68
122. This is the only sane post on this thread. Well done!
Edited on Mon Jan-18-10 09:41 AM by earth mom
:thumbsup:
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #68
132. I agree this would make a great OP. Thanks for the articulation.
Brilliant, actually.

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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
61. He just made it clear that his purpose is to oppose the US, whatever the US does or doesn't do.
He's opposite guy. He doesn't have an ethical policy compass, when it comes to criticizing others. This makes that very clear.
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
63. Fine. Let's just get the fuck out
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 06:44 PM by Codeine
and take all our shit with us if that's what our fine friend in Caracas wants. You think Saint Fucking Hugo has a desalinization plant he can pull out of his portly ass to provide drinking water to people dying of thirst? A hospital ship? A bazillion choppers and heavy cargo planes?

Fuck Chavez and fuck all of his DU ass-kissing corps of second-guessers and armchair quarterbacks.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. Um, I do believe Buenos Aires is in Argentina.
So you are either making a very funny intentionally ironic joke or you need an atlas.
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. Nope, just shamefully stupid today.
:dunce:

Edited
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #66
98. It's OK. We all get teh stoopid sometimes.
I nearly parallel parked into a telephone pole earlier today.
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
67. He has jumped the shark
Actually he did a long time ago.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
79. Veering dangerously close to Limbaugh/Robertson territory
:eyes:
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
82. Most of the Hugo Cheerleaders are ignoring this thread, what a surprise.
But not really.
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. The "L" must be broken on Beth's computer...no "LOL" from her yet...nt
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #82
96. Its not the message, its the messenger...
I recc'd the OP myself. I don't shoot or praise the messenger, just the message.
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demoleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #82
119. they chose the same thread in LBN. n/t
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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
85. We're just there for all that sweet, sweet Haitian oil --
Also, to build a pipeline.

Heck, that "earthquake" was MIHOP, or LIHOP at least.

;)
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #85
95. Proximities...nt
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
90. Fuck Chavez. n/t
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
97. Fucking Idiot! So where is Venezuela's contribution? What are they trying to air-lift in?
Where is their flag in the hemisphere aside from flicking shit & paranoia? Haiti is just RIGHT OVER THERE so get fucking busy, Hugo!
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #97
99. Read this ~
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #99
102. "mindless anti-Chavez ranting" - Cuz cult of personality Dictators who suppress free speech and
imprison their political opponents are just soooooooooo misunderstood, right? Right?

:eyes:


(Wait for it...wait for it..."right wing talking points...blah, blah, blah...")
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #102
104. The talking points are all yours. I just proved that the
knee-jerk responses claiming Venezuela was doing to help Haiti were false with facts, no need for talking points from me. Right on cue as expected, you respond with the usual baseless, rightwing talking points regarding Chavez.

It seems that Chavez is not alone in his concerns. You can read about it here:

US accused of annexing airport as squabbling hinders aid effort in Haiti

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

See if you can pull some more rightwing talking points out of your old, Bush-era bag of worn out attacks on other countries.

How about 'Freedom Fries' for one of the latest countries to join Chavez in his concerns? Why waste an old talking point?

You do know that the U.S. has occupied Haiti before, don't you?

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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #104
108. "See if you can pull some more rightwing talking points" - QED.
:rofl:

You are dismissed, with all due contempt. :thumbsup:
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 03:05 AM
Response to Reply #104
109. Chavez is a tyrannical prick, BTW. You really should educate yourself on current events. n/t.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 03:44 AM
Response to Reply #109
110. What you think of Chavez, or anyone else who is not a citizen
of that country, isn't worth a second thought. What DOES matter is what the people of Venezuela think of him. Chavez remains enormously popular with his own people after ten years, and has been elected by them in election after election, supervised by International poll watchers, including Jimmy Carter and declared to be the most corrupt-free elections in the world.

'Dictator', another rightwing lie. You continue to expose the depth of your ignorance about that country.
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
101. What's hilarious about this thread is the "he may be onto something" *wink *wink, *nudge, *nudge
conspiracy fanatics it brings out of the woodwork - next they'll be saying the U.S. used a Tsunami-creating laser drill to jar those plates loose in Haiti to begin with, so the CIA could move in and clean up....

Chavez is only slightly more sane than they are.

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BolivarianHero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
114. Plausible..
Who overthrew Aristide?
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
116. Hugo, I like you a lot. And that's why I respectfully ask you to...
SHUT THE FUCK UP!

It's not the time, okay?
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
117. VISIONARY!
:nuke:
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demoleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
120. chavez is disgusting. n/t
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
121. Hugo Chavez caused the earthquake to happen to begin with!!!! And everyone knows it!
eom
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demoleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #121
123. hehe, no. it was the US that caused it, to have the chance to invade. ;) n/t
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
124. oh crap, STFU.
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
128. To paraphrase Sargeant Halka: Lighten up Hugo...
:eyes:
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Juche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
130. douche
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