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Well here is some good news about Haiti

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 03:37 PM
Original message
Well here is some good news about Haiti
this is reading in between the lines, and driven by experience in the field. Things are getting better. How can I tell? Some finger pointing has begun regarding flights coming in. I mean the horror... some French Planes were diverted with a hospital and the French Foreign Minister filed a complaint... well flights that could not be handled before were diverted, and some of them with teams on board, and for the most part nobody complained.

Ok here is a little inside the how these things work... once resources start moving in, in quantity... that silly nationalism crops all back up. I mean we have time for it.

On the bright side, to my educated eyes it tells me... things are substantially better, and now the you are dissing me, and not letting me do this and it is all political bullshit has started.

On the down side... this could be a problem, especially with all the NGOs on the ground refusing to play nice with each other... I am getting that from one comment from one of the NGOs... that essentially said that they are not sharing info of what exactly they have in country, or sharing food and logistical resources. That could put a wrinkle on getting relief in...

So what until now has been going exceedingly well, given the circumstances, might go downhill, relatively speaking...

Yes this is far more inside baseball than many people want to hear...
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. I heard a report that the French with the hospital will be allowed in.
But you never know what really will happen depending on who is emerging as in charge.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Yeah they are comming in the same way as the ICRC
when they brought their fifty bed hospital. By ground. 18 hours by road, it sucks, but that is the way it is.

They were already in the pipeline and planned, they just had other more immediate priorities, as incredible as this sounds, and the taskers said take the land route.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Of course they'll be allowed in
They just have to wait until it is safe and there is room for them to unload their gear, along with people and/or equipment to unload it.

It was the height of arrogance to think they could simply fly into a devastated and overwhelmed airport that is barely being controlled by a Coast Guard ship just offshore.

They're building an emergency runway and a temporary tower. Once those are completed, it should reduce the congestion considerably.

No one went out of the way to ruffle nationalistic feathers. It's just the way things are in a disaster.
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. In other words, all the things are happening that can be expected to happen in a large disaster...
...and it really, IMHO, just comes with the territory, it's the nature of a large multi-nation mixed efforts action.

I'm pretty pleased with what I hear about how things are going.

Expecting perfection under these circumstances is really unrealistic.

I'll bet anyone with experience who's on the ground there isn't surprised by the SNAFUs, where they're occuring.

:thumbsup:
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Nope, here is one of the ones I handled
and it was oh MUCH SMALLER in scale.

During the floods our first problem was that we needed help in search and rescue and refugee handling... due to that thing called geography we wanted to officially go international... I mean we had that nice border with the US... but due to that stupid nationalist pride Mexico City, the foreign office said no.

Shall we say I got VERY creative? In the end we got that aide, but not in an orderly fashion, or in the true amounts needed.

Why I find this but, but the US did not have teams on the ground FIRST is so ahem glaring to me. As a front line worker, I did not care what uniform they wore or what national flag they served under.
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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
6. Thanks again for sharing your insight.
It helps make "sense" of a chaotic situation.

:hi:
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. You welcome and I do sincerely hope
that the children play well with each other... that is all the NGOs.

Not holding my breath on that one...

This is when they need to just sector out the place and have a clear chain...
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. So far people are working well together
Things are improving.

By the way I now understand why Hillary went yesterday. There was no way that the Secretary of State could show up after the UN Special Envoy and Bill is going tomorrow - sensible protocol.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. That is the point things are defiintely improving
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 04:07 PM by nadinbrzezinski
why the stupid politics is cropping up.

:-)

And the comment about the NGOs that is partly experience partly a comment from one of the communications officer from one of the NGOs... It was one of those, either you got out of script... or not, can't remember what NGO officer said that. And given my experience keeping the children working together... egos get in the way... it did not surprise me.

I do not envy whoever will be in charge of this to be honest... he has way more children to deal with than I ever did.

Oh and yes, people tend to be VERY TERRITORIAL and to try to KEEP their own operations going.
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
10. Your imagination ...
is not quite as accurate as real information.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. No acutally this is based from actually DOING THIS for real
now what is your experience in this?

Now real info is that they did turn a plane away from the French and that the French DID file a complaint with state.

You think that did not happen? Use the damn google.

I am just telling you WHY it happened. Those of us who have done this shit for real know that these things do happen... and chiefly WHY.

If you choose, go ahead, listen to the news, and realize they are not telling you all there is to know... partly they don't know this stuff, partly they really do not want to tell you this stuff.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
11. Our Troops
If Kooch ever made it to the top of the heap we'd have a department of peace invading Haiti instead of combat marines.

But as it stands there is no other resource that can tackle the job at hand.
Even if there was, the military would be the cheapest.
The boots are paid zilch and the brass gets paid sitting on their ass or working.

What we need to be aware of is that we don't wear out our welcome.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. The department of peace would not have the logistics
or operational capabilities to do this.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Sure it would
Using old ships and airplanes and surplus mil equipment.
And ex-soldiers.

Ever hear of the Peace Corps?

Heck the MIC budget could be cut by half to pay for it.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Ok here is a hint
the US mostly does not have a merchant marine anymore. There are reasons for that, but we don't.

Civilian ships cannot get in here, not until they fix the port... which is being done by deep sea hard hat divers...

Sea Lift Command which is the closest that you could have to your idea of this, again cannot penetrate the harbor until it is fixed, period.

Our surplus military equipment that is sold to civis is not going to work, and our surplus military equipment is sold to other militaries... the MAR Papaloapan is a former USN Ship... for example... and bringing a ship back onto operations from the moth ball fleet TAKES months.

So no, they do not have the logistics to do this.

And lets not go into the security issues.

I know you think the military is horrible at this, but the military (in not just the US) takes lead in disasters because they are trained and they do this regularly.

As I said the other day... to a logistics officer moving a box of 50 cal, or a box of MREs is the same problem... just a different SKU.

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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Ahh don't be so negative
If America just decided to do it, it would get done.

Its just a political decision. Global warming may force our hand anyway.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. I am giving you the real world reasons
and you can bet your sweet ass that the military will continue to take lead in all disasters to come.

A department of peace is not a bad idea, but a whole different discussion. Hell I want DoD to go back to its original name, Department of War... but for things like this... I want a well drilled, logistics capable organization. That is an armed force that TRAINS for this.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Haiti doesn't have any oil or other precious resources (besides labor)
So we probably won't be there for long.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Good question
How long do we have to be there?

What is our exit strategy? The Haitians might like to know.
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xiamiam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. halliburton will get contracts there...
would have already been completed had darth been in office...but i bet he smells money right now and is already plotting his course
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
17. 'Love' to hear such!
The nature of 'man,' I'm afraid.

Please keep us informed.

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