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**Catholic priest charges 1.5 million more Jews died in Holocaust than thought - total: 7.5 million.

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breadandwine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:22 PM
Original message
**Catholic priest charges 1.5 million more Jews died in Holocaust than thought - total: 7.5 million.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/J...



The priest found evidence of 1.5 million unrecorded dead Jews in Ukraine.






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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't doubt that may be the case...
I doubt all the others (non-jew gypsies, homosexuals, political prisoners) were ever fully counted either. Once the killing starts, it is damned hard to stop...
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. I doubt that strongly.
If that were the case, historians would have found evidence long before now.
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breadandwine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. For decades no one knew there was a National Security Agency.
There was eventually a joke that it stood for "No Such Agency."

The National Archives has buried in it literally millions of files on scandals no one knows about outside of a tiny few. Only the Freedom of Information Act has gradually pried some of this into the open. Don't be so sure you know what you don't know:
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. Doesn't the fact that people joked about it mean taht people knew about it?
Oh, and you're comparing apples and oranges.
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pretzel4gore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
4. too bad no one notice that we built Iron Curtain
it was we who forced partition on Germany, not USSR, it was WE who funded hitler in late 20's, not commies, it was WE who nuked Japanese cities after WE ignored pleas by Hirohito to accept Japan surrrender; it was WE who staged Dieppe landing (where 1800 Can. soldiers killed) in order to fool Stalin regards 'second front'
It was US that terrified Vietnamese after the VN war clearly lost by falsely reporting massive bloodshed when VC communists gained control earlier- we even tried evac. orphanages unnecessarily in order to make liberators look bad. WE told world up to '1 million' people slaughterd, causing scenes of panic that made it seem the liberation of Vietnam by the Viets was a horrific disaster, and we lied and lied and lied some more until no one paid att'n anymore! Fact is, the liberation returned VietNam to Viet control, and there were no executions -iow, WE LIED! (americans were scared as the end came, but not of the VC, they feared the ARVN soldiers left behind who saw the truth too late...tens of thousands of murderers and thieves were taken to USA, just like in Germany after dubia dubia 2)
But no catholic priest ever gonna notice THAT
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breadandwine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. We forced partition on Germany?
Are you saying the poor Germans were only trying to take back what had been taken away from them?

Would that include the Sudetenland?

The Memel District of Lithuania?

The Danzig corridor of Poland?

Belgium?

Latvia?

Estonia?

Russia?

England?



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pretzel4gore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. the Germans were defeated in 1945..
they had no say in the decisions forced upon USSR-who lacked nuklear weapons, which Truman used brazenly to scare Stalin, committing what Eisenhower called 'terrible atrocity'. But Stalin instead tried to keep Red Army as near US/Allied militaries as possible, within shouting distance, to prevent truman/churchill use of nukes, resulting in occupation of eastern europe (which Stalin did not want!) It seems the entire world then knew why the 'cold war' came about- some of our best nuke scientists openly tried help USSR get the bomb- but the pigmedia pretended it was all black (good) versus all white (evil) and they have never stopped lying! For example, "Inglorious Basturds' the recent movie, pretends 'nazis' were some kinda martian invaders when they were just the gop type rightwing emboldened by absolute power. Iow, western civilization suffered defeat way back in 1945 (nazis won WW2, the south won civil war, and abel murdered cain) and time is running out (as you know, 'evil' can only exist for set period of time, while 'good' can, and will one day, be eternal)
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. "nazis won WW2, the south won civil war"
Sadly, this is pretty much the truth....

Hitler may have died, and some of his henchmen may have been convicted at Nuremberg, but fascism survived, and it eventually has conquered even the USA. And no region of this country has more political power than the "confederacy", unfortunately.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Delicious communist tears. nt
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pretzel4gore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. see- here's the problem
you notice the tyranny of special interests no different then a royalty far away over the waters etc, yet the fact the Reactionary Right brutally tried defraud you by lying about facts of history (as if truth not significant) and then seeing us building policies on the widespread misunderstandings they promo'ed - policies that then turn against those who laffed at the failure of Workers (Soviet) Union, which might not have happened had americans known true story. But allowing lies to prosper for 50 years now never gave the people a chance, and today we are ruled by gangsters and fraud artists
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. The people who ran the Soviet Union were the same as the people who ran the US
The Cold War was a war on the workers by the manager class (both capitalist and socialist.) To quote Bakunin, "Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice and Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality." Basically, it was the forces of privilege and injustice battling against the armies of slavery and brutality.

The Soviet Union was not a "worker's state" anymore than the US was a government "for the people." Both states were founded on elitism. In the US, it was believed that only the "minority of the opulent" deserved a say in government while in the USSR it was only the Vanguard intellectuals who were allowed any say in government. Either way the workers got totally screwed.
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pretzel4gore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. unfortunately you're right
But my main consideration (since the revolution is finished, is over, forever) isn't the spilled milk so much as the cow, the milker, the pail, the buyer/user and the organized plan to waste alot more milk in interest of keeping reactionaries' in power. The $23 trillion 'missing' from the economy is just power, lost forever by common humanity. A new revolution would be great idea, but it isn't going to happen. We are living on a doomed planet, and life will be extinct within a few hundred years, on urth anyway. That pisses me off, since it was the very guys who supposed to be the good guys were the assholes the entire time, and now, when too late, it becomes obvious- they even seem to be flaunting it
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. There Were Re-Education Camps In Viet Nam For " So Called" Counterrevolutionaries
And being a liberal and believing that any form of totalitarian government is bad is not mutually exclusive.

I knew a man who was separated from his family and sent to one of those camps and his accounts nearly brought me to tears.
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pretzel4gore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. geez man, the reactionaries used torture!
4 million people were killed during american part of the VN war, according to R McNamara in 'fog of war'. What was the war about? Stopping communism? Once VN was liberated, in 1975, what has happened re 'communism'? More tonnage bombs dropped on 'Nam then used in entire WW2. Why? Why did USA fight the Vietnamese? The communist takeover never resulted in mass executions and so on- the boat people left voluntarily, and the gov never tried stop them. Iow, re-education camps might have happened, but the country belonged to the Viets and it was european/american interference that caused mess in first place. Revolutions are ALWAY PROVOKED by mr pig. Yet he always comes out smelling like roses! And lie? The pig simply cannot tell the truth
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
8. Fr. Desbois is a great human being.
He documented 700 previously uncounted mass graves. Outstanding story and article.

Those who don't know about the Holocaust should read every word they can about the subject to prevent its recurrence.

BTW: After the war, many NAZI war criminals from Eastern Europe found forgiveness and new lives as trusted assets of the CIA.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
12. Here is the truth
the numbers are anywhere from 5-7, but the number six was kind of used as an average.

Sad that we do this.

But as one of my instructors pointed out, he was a holocaust specialist, one reason for that is simple... it was the first number floated.

I do not see this six million going to seven point five anytime soon

Of course that raises the horror even more... given the seven point five gentiles, that if fifteen million

I know I am rare, but I remember ALL the victims, even when one third of the civilian victims of the war were Jews.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
14. Stalin? or Hitler's victims?
Edited on Mon Jan-18-10 01:14 PM by JCMach1
How would you even estimate a count of that?

The Ukraine was lined with the bodies of the dead before, during, and after the war...

I will leave the Holocaust historians to sort this one out.
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
16. If they were landowners, they could have been killed by Stalin prior to the German invasion.
Watch the PBS documentary, "WWII Behind Closed Doors: Stalin, Nazis, and the West".
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breadandwine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
17. Am I missing something here or are some people attempting under the table denial
by obfuscating or changing the subject?

What does Hitler killing Jews have to do with the evils of Stalin? Is someone trying to argue, never mind what the right wing did, think of how bad the left wing was?

As bad as Stalin was, this is a thread about the Holocaust, not Stalin.







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