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The GOP "just say 'no' to everything" plan worked.

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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:13 PM
Original message
The GOP "just say 'no' to everything" plan worked.
The GOP plan of blocking everything Obama and the dems tried to do worked exactly as they wanted it to work.

If you try to block everything, you convince people that the dems can't govern. That they are worse than the GOP.

The system isn't broken. It's just that too many "fair weather friends" believe the likes of Rush and Sarah.

It's like they are terrorists. They even have the underground thinking the dems are incapable of governing.



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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. Dems just refuse to play the game properly
And no, that was not a compliment.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. Really? I don't think it has worked at all.
They have lost every political battle so far and they're now labelled as the "Party of NO" for at least the next two major elections. They screwed themselves.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. They lost? Good. Now where's my strong public option?
Oh...
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. Ask holy Joe, the guy who killed it.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
29. I think the President killed it
I know we don't agree but I find it hard to believe that even Lieberman changed the position on this that he advocated for in September just to be an ass. In fact, he was the only one in the whole debate I ever heard interviewed that advocated for lowering the Medicare age. I also know Harry Reid thinks the president killed it.

No way to prove it one way or another but Rahm's visit to the Senate on a Sunday night to order Harry Reid to give Joe what he wanted is highly suspicious. Good game plan for the White House, though. Kill the public option to protect their deal with Karen Igagni and let Joe take the heat for it.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
28. Loss is a relative term here.
They can score some minor victories by putting us in the position of barely having enough votes to do anything. That means having to cater to some of the sold out members of our own party. But that's more stonewalling than anything. The fact is that they didn't stop us from passing the stimulus package, or Lily Ledbetter, or a dozen other things that have gone through, and they're not going to stop us on healthcare reform either.
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Cosmocat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. I think it is a 50/50 split ...
With the MSM acting on their behalf, the Rs have managed to drag BOTH sides down ...

When, GOD WILLING, HCR gets passed, a BIG, MASSIVE weight will have been lifted off of BO and the whole party ...

The GOP of today knows only one thing - SCORCHED EARTH ...

I knew it was going to be bad, but it was worse than I thought. These jagoffs look about a second into the future, the just see one thing and scream bloody murder about, then worry about tomorrow, tomorrow, the just make it up as the go along, and get REAL angry and bully their way through things.

I still firmly believe the negative with HCR right now is people being tired of the PROCESS. It is sad that it gets lost that the Rs are the ones actling like repugnant lunatics, but with the MSM providing them cover, they get to be scumbags and the blame for it gets passed out to EVERYONE involved, so people are tired with Ds and Rs over it ...

BO won't get it all back, but he will get a healthy bounce back in a good portion of his "capital" once the bill gets done, again, god willing.

I want to see how things look a month or so later. I just think everything is being viewed through that prism right now, and if the Ds get it done, while it won't be looked through that prism exclusively, it will be a positive for the Ds ...

I tend to agree that the Rs, to use a phrase that media CONSTANTLY uses on Ds, but never on Rs, but I agree that they have "overplayed their hand" on HCR and other matters ...

IF the economy continues to show even the modest progress it has, the Rs will have nothing other than hoping for a "terra" attack ...
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. With a little help from the "Not Good Enough" auxiliary brigade n/t
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. +1
...and there you have it.
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PhilosopherKing Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
4. It works to an extent because
we have Lieberman and Nelson watering down our own legislation and demoralizing the base as a result. If we didn't have these "centrist" types stalling and undermining our signiture legislation, it wouldn't matter what the Republicans do.
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
6. They could not have been as successful were it not for the help from progressives
Good job, all! I hope you're happy.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Progressives: So important that we cannot win without them and yet
so irrelevant that they do not need to listened to.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. yes,its all the progressives fault if the DLC dems dont make it
yeah, sure. talk about scapegoating lol
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
23. So it's a good thing to assist the GOP so progressives can be relevant
OK, I get it. I guess. Not. Makes progressives no better than Republicans.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Why should dems care about progressives supporting the GOP?
You know, since they are so unimportant and everything. :shrug:
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #25
38. That's exactly the friggin' progressive's problem
they all want.. no wait.. LOVE to be victims if they're not handed everything they want on a silver platter. Actually, I think they just love being victims, period. Thank you for making that point.
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Aramchek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
7. it may have worked on weak-minded individuals such as yourself
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. what was so offensive about my post that you had to insult me? Really?
Does it give you pleasure to call ppl online names? Does it advance your cause? I would honestly like to know why you called me "weak-minded" (which of course means stupid).

I honestly do not think I deserve it. You apparently do so, fess up: why?

You must have understood that the point of my op was that I fear some dems have bought into the GOP BS line that "dems can't govern" and I think those people are being duped. I certainly don't buy into the BS GOP line and there is nothing I have said that shows I have.

And while I might not be the most brilliant person in the world, you have no idea who I am or what my IQ is or whether I am weak-minded or not.

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Aramchek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
34. you fear others have bought into it because you have.
just like the Repukes want.
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. I have not bought into it, and nothing in my post implies I bougt into it.
Nice try at attempting to cover up your despicable behavior.



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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
24. And it works wonders on mushy aid the enemy types like progressives.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
10. corporate DLC dems sell out, GOP didnt have to do much else
the system is broken.hopefully people like Grayson , who wants to limit corporate money to politicians, will change it.

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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
13. how did it work?
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. it only works if they win in Mass on Tuesday and in 2010
and some people are expecting (hoping?) for both of those things to happen, and will blame Obama and the Democratic Party if it does happen.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
17. Makes me wonder why our party didnt use the same "no" tactic
... to slow down Bush & Cheney.

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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. To be fair, Bush had TERRA and NEIN-ELEVIN on his side
Which made opposing a lot of their policies basically political suicide.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. One might think opposing health care reform might be political suicide too
But the GOP has stuck to their guns regardless, and it seems theres little backlash against them for it.

Sometimes political party's need to get some balls and be the opposition they're supposed to be.

Our party seems to think that making nice, and going along is the proper course, and in the process our party's values are always compromised.

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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
18. It worked as well as it did because Obama held back...
...on calling them obstructionists at every opportunity once it was clear that was their tactic. For most of the health care debate, and the stimulus plan debate before that, he spent too much of his time with an olive branch extended. I'm not arguing against extending olive branches, but fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #18
30. Exactly!
And I don't think it was an accident or political ineptness. That whole 'wanting a bipartisan bill' went on way after everyone in the country knew it wouldn't happen. Hanging back allowed the bill to get pushed more and more to the right. Interesting that we didn't see the President come out to fight until time to protect the middle class tax on benefits.
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onestepforward Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
19. I think that it only worked in the short term
and helped to fuel the teabaggers. I don't think that saying "NO!" to everything will work in the long term. "NO!" isn't much of a solution to our many problems and concerns.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
22. They have succeeded in getting many on our side to attack Dems instead
Oh, how gullible some people are (you know the ones)!
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Blasphemer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
26. The GOP hasn't had to do anything. They are benefiting by default...
Their attempts at blocking Democratic agenda haven't really gotten much traction since August. Since then, the story has been all about intra-Party politics. People like Limbaugh, the Cheney clan and Guiliani are routinely making fools of themselves, but for the most part Republicans are much quieter than they have been in the past under similar circumstances.
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
27. Senate Democrats have themselves to blame for refusing to use the nuclear option.
Had they done so, they could have steamrolled the GOP and passed much better legislation, keeping their voters happy and engaged. And, given the GOP's unprecedented filibustering, they had ample justification to do so. They have chosen not to, making them look ineffectual in the eyes of their own voters, and no less odious to the opposition.
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. the nuclear option is easy to advocate, hard to do
I remember when the GOP started talking of going nuclear.

It didn't poll well.

If 51% of Americans followed Saint Jane, going nuclear would have been a good thing.

Unfortunately, some of us don't see her as as Saintly as others do (meaning I disagree with both her positions and her tactics.)

I'm a democrat in no small part because I want to belong to a party where the ends do not justify the means.

HCR can and will be improved.

Thank god the base didn't abandon FDR over Social Security (which totally sucked as passed, basically only covered white rich people).

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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. That is an ironic position.
Because 60-for-cloture is inherently antidemocratic, while 51-for-cloture is democratic. But, God knows, there are Democrats who are not fans of democracy.
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. Oh, gee, I'm sorry. I apparently talked right over your head. Sorry you missed the point.
Go ask Jane what the big words mean.

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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Oh, it's alright.
If you'd made any other point worth addressing, I'd have done so.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
33. And too many Dems appeased them, so it worked.
There were things the Dems could have done to stop the game, but......
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