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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:32 AM
Original message
The role of height in the sex difference in intelligence
http://ajp.press.illinois.edu/122/4/reyniers.html

SATOSHI KANAZAWA and DIANE J. REYNIERS
London School of Economics and Political Science

Recent studies conclude that men on average have higher intelligence than women by 35 IQ points. However, the ultimate evolutionary question of why men should have evolved to have higher intelligence than women remains. We suggest that men may have slightly higher intelligence than women through 4 mechanisms: (1) assortative mating of intelligent men and beautiful women, (2) assortative mating of tall men and beautiful women, (3) an extrinsic correlation between height and intelligence produced by Mechanisms 1 and 2, and (4) a higher-thanexpected offspring sex ratio (more sons) among tall (and hence intelligent) parents. Consistent with our suggestion, we show that men may have higher IQs than women because they are taller, and once we control for height women have slightly higher IQs than men. The correlation between height and IQ and the female advantage in intelligence persist even after we control for health as a measure of genetic quality, as well as physical attractiveness, age, race, education, and earnings. Height is also strongly associated with intelligence within each sex.
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
1. this is actually from the Onion, yes?
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. "Measured intelligence" (indeed)
:eyes:


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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. well.... if nothing else i am thrilled with the responses to this. truly knocked on ass
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 12:12 PM by seabeyond
reading thru this. even if.... 3-5 pts?, even if.... so what. yet all the conclusions.... fuck.

hubby asked me to tone down the oh my fuckin god.... as i was reading. lol

but

i am thrilled with responses if nothing else. it is the op that seriously posts this shit that is the concern. it will become the ultimate gospel for the very very small handful here on du.
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Make7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
2. Or perhaps IQ tests are not entirely gender neutral... (n/t )
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Or maybe they are not height neutral
On the other hand, NBA players don't seem to be geniuses...
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Perhaps sexism isn't exactly gender neutral either!
nt
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
6. OK, that paper gets a C- and won't apply towards credit for
your advanced degree. Sorry. Bad logic.
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NightWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
7. Let's put men and women together, see which one is smarter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YajTg5ti4mo&feature=rela...

Let us put men and women together
See which one is smarter
Some say men, but I say no
Women run the men like a puppet show

It ain't me
It's the people that say
Men are leading the women astray
But I say, it's the women today
Smarter than the man in every way

Chorus:
That's right
The women are smarter
That's right
The women are smarter
That's right
The women are smarter
Smarter than a man in every way
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HeresyLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
8. Easily explained by Kanazawa's wiki entry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satoshi_Kanazawa

You'll especially love his remarks on Ann Coulter.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. wow
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #17
51. .
:)
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. his sole purpose is to confine all numbers and info into his bullshit evo theory. ya
that is truly an "honest" way of presenting science.

this is the cult like group of males roaming our lands right now. scary thought
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
37. whoa, that was an interesting read.
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Confusious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
55. Seems he's pretty low on the Intelligence graph himself

I guess they give out doctorates to anyone these days.

Maybe I can get me one on the Internet!!!!
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
56. And here I thought General Ripper was a fictitious character. Wotta psycho.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
9. Who designed the IQ test? Men? I thought so! They wrote the Bible too!
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harkadog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
25. What makes you think only men design IQ tests?
Just because women don't do quite as well as men? Poor logic at best. The idea that men and women are "equal" or the "same" in every way is just nonsense.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. No, I've read some history on them, actually. It all went back to the
testing vs. essay debate, and so forth.

In academia this comes up a lot.
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harkadog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. I believe you but it just seems in current times
women would be designing the tests also. Especially since women outnumber men in universities now.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #34
42. But these - and their format - go much farther back.
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 12:47 PM by Captain Hilts
Testing, in general, becomes an issue in teaching because male students usually do better on standardized - multiple choice tests than female students. Female students write better essays. Male students are FAR more likely to speak up in class, and so forth.

It's part of a larger debate.

2-5points just isn't statistically all that significant anyway.

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harkadog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. Men are risk takers, women not so much.
That is why they do better on multiple choice tests -- they are more willing to choose an answer they are not quite sure of. Same thing about speaking up in class. They are less afraid of saying something that it "wrong".
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. Yes. And men are also rewarded and encouraged to take risks.
Girls who are risk takers are called 'tomboys' and learn early that this kind of behavior isn't often rewarded in girls.

I think these things are changing somewhat.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. tell boys, give me an essay, even when not well versed in subject and i could always kick ass
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 01:39 PM by seabeyond
multiple choice, i could always find more than one option. none of them were definite for me. too open for questioning.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
10. The measures of intelligence that are quantifiable do not tell a complete story. n/t
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 12:08 PM by lumberjack_jeff
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eShirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. +1
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
12. Are you trying to say that men and women like to have sex with tall attractive intelligent partners?
How could that be?
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harkadog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. It is saying women do
It is called attraction.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #12
30. I imagine it is trying to say the usual
That men like looks and women like brains. Therefore assuring smart but ugly men everywhere.

When I was a young and beautiful girl, I liked those good looking boys best. Something wrong with my genes, I guess.

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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. we want 'em old, ugly lol lol and..... ya right. cant even say with straight face
evolutionary psychology is all about stroking the fragile male ego.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. When I was young and pretty all I could think about was getting
me a guy with money, old, ugly, that didn't matter! :sarcasm: And it was only biology and would have had nothing to do with the money! :rofl:
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. except golly gee, went with the sexually peaking 19 yr old dudes.
my bad. money and forever wasnt high on my list. but then, i defied evolutionary theory even then, wanting to play and not marry and birth those babies.
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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
14. Anybody who thinks men have "higher" intelligence than women
is full of shit.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. iq, i kick my older brothers ass and he is 6'2". my middle brother, about same height kicks mine
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 12:19 PM by seabeyond
at about 186 iq. and not a chance you could pay me to take his place.

not gonna put iq into a gender fight. no way in hell.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
16. "even after we control for ..." yeah, OK
Controls are never as good as they think they are.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
18. The gender IQ difference is not presumptively meaningful
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 12:27 PM by Kurt_and_Hunter
Men and women perform differently (on average; in aggregate) on different things.

How much weight you give to tests of different abilities favors or disfavors sexes.

Since there is no "right answer" to how abilities ought to be weighted male and female IQ testing is normalized in practice, meaning that the group "all women" is 100 and the group "all men" is 100.

It's a calibration thing.

The "correct" weighting of abilities is somewhat arbitrary.

If the results were not normalized then the test would be normalized... they would change the weighting within the test so that man and women performed the same on average.

It's an old issue. Men and women are not the same but it is not obvious that either is intellectually superior... it's a value judgement. So we assume equality.

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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
19. If men are smarter it's only because women made them that way.
As the article pointed out.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
20. The most brilliant people I've known have been short. Scary genius brilliant.
This is such bullshit.
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
22. At 4'10" tall and you-don't-wanna-know on my "real" IQ test when I was a kid, I scoff
The association between height and intelligence is almost certainly an artifact.

Tucker
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. my teenage son has finally started sprouting. *sigh*. lol. the pressures for a boy
but what i have noticed of late is the emphasis, importance to him with height (now that he obtains it). starting to rein him in on the prejudice of comments he is non thinkingly making.

our society certainly feeds this along with other shallow, not important issues.

my mom proudly stood her 5'2" with all of us towering her. lol. she could/did take all us on.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. As little kids we are socialized to associate authority with height. As adults, we don't
get over that. Hence the high batting average of taller candidates over shorter ones.

A friend is engaged to a tall guy. She'd never dated anyone so tall. She said it's been fascinating seeing how people react so differently to a big guy than a normally-sized one. She said it's kind of weird. People just inherently respect him.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:46 PM
Original message
of course. conditioning. i always try to allow boys to see societal conditioning.
who wants to walk thru life being conditioned by society in where to place ones next step.

men are generally taller than women. women have sex. probably women will have sex with a taller man.

has to be evolutionary psychology at play
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
45. Beats me. nt
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harkadog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. If all you are giving is personal anecdotal evidence
to back up an assertion then your IQ score may have been in error.
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Nice snark. I am saying this is likely an artifact.
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harkadog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #31
39. Whether it is or not has nothing to do with your personal statistics
which is what you provided.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. and if you are taking this report seriously, without question, it shows the error of its ways. nt
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harkadog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. I don't take any report seriously without question
But it seems many posters condemn any report without question if it conflicts with some personal view they have.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. It's called a bullshit detector.
Look into it.
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harkadog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #40
48. No thanks. Non response.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #36
50. no. read the dude's postion, so, aware of his agenda. and see clear flaws
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 01:39 PM by seabeyond
in the very little bet of the study. wasnt a tough one. nothing to do with personal view. all to do with invalid study, clearly. hence why questioning you even taking this a little bet seriously with the obvious junk science.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
23. every so often, some inane drivel like this article comes around
and I often realize I could probably sprinkle glitter on a dog turd and sell it as a diamond to people who believe this shite.

Its such a shame I have ethics.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
28. What does height have to do with it?
:rofl:

Yeah, the intelligent men get the beautiful women, OK let's accept that. Suppose the kids inherit his looks and her brains? They never account for that. :rofl: Especially is they were the daughters. Ugly smart girl is the first child, and handsome dumb boy is the second. Failure of evolution! :rofl: Didn't those genes know they were supposed to take the beauty gene from mom and the brain gene from dad? Why did those genes distribute themselves randomly? :rofl:

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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #28
43. They also don't account for regression towards the mean, or...
...those inconvenient studies that suggest that IQ is inherited from the maternal side!

Tucker
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Motown_Johnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
41. Or the questions on the test play to male strengths and female weaknesses
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
52. Satoshi Kanazawa and Diane J. Reyniers, the two newest nominees for TWIT and TWITESS of
the Year Awards.

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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
53. The Almighty Tallest ask - could you be any smaller?
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
54. And yet intelligent men are not smart enough to choose
a woman because of her intelligence rather than her beauty? :shrug:
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