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Eleanor Roosevelt said in '33, she would steal to feed her family.

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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:28 AM
Original message
Eleanor Roosevelt said in '33, she would steal to feed her family.
Boy, did she catch some shit over that remark, but she was being honest. There was a case of a man arrested for stealing food and she said she'd do the exact same thing.

Good on her. In the case of Haiti, you're not looting or stealing if it's food, or other necessities.
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fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. your neighbors survive the catastrophe too, is it OK to steal their food
when they aint looking? :shrug:
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. If they're decent folks, they'll share. nt
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fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. If they refuse is it Ok to use force to eat?
should you ask them with a baseball bat in your hand?
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. In the scenario you laid out, the people with food have elected to follow "the law
of the jungle" over mutual cooperation. That being the case, whomever ends up with the food is its rightful owner by the choice made by the original possessors of the food.


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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #5
22. It may not be OK, but people will do it
Especially if their kids are involved.

The republicans Ayn Randian idealism is that you do the moral thing and starve rather than take other people's property when those others are ungenerous enough to prefer your starvation to just giving their property. Like all idealism, it can never be carried out.

Ayn rand created a fictional character who did this. He was a kid on the streets and refused to steal even though he was starving. In her fictional world, he had a way out of it, of course, by taking a job. (These things are always available in conservative fantasy. They want to believe it, since it increases their feeling of security that it could not happen to them.)
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. If they are not starving and you or your family is, yes.
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 09:41 AM by closeupready
I suppose if the neighbors later insist you pay them back, then you should do that.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. I Don't Know
But I would have a hard time putting a staving man in the hooskow for stealing a loaf of bread from Wal-Mart.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Yes. The lines here are all dotted. nt
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
3. Being honest doesn't sell papers.
If you're hungry and thirsty and there is food on the other side of the window.......

Those crying foul would do it too. They'd just be sneaky about it.
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murray hill farm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
6. We would all do it...in the same situation.
If stealing food or water is the only way your children will survive, you will steal food and water..even from other children. The will to survive is very strong in any human being. The will to have your children survive is even stronger.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
31. Of course we would. Anyone denying it is lying to themselves. Or an abysmal parent.
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 07:14 PM by glitch
The idea of letting your child die when there was an option of food or water is ludicrous, and I am not even a parent.

I would steal to feed my nieces and nephews, or the neighbor kids for that matter, if that was the only option.

Edit to make very clear: but I probably wouldn't have to. Most people understimate the co-operation of survivors.
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
7. Anybody who says they would not is either a liar or a fool. nt
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Yes. nt
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
32. Damn, if I had just read one post further I would not have needed to post.
You said it.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
8. +1,000
We'd all do it.
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abluelady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
10.  I Can't Wait to Hear My Republican Acquaintances
The people I know are going to trash the Haitians for that type of action. They will see it as black behavior as opposed to saving their children. On the other hand, they would be the first to do exactly that. All they care about is me, me, me. But of course they would never see that. You can be sure I will point that out to them the first opportunity I get. :evilgrin:
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. In Europe 1945 everybody did it. nt
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abluelady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. You Can Rest Assured
my Repug acquaintances will not address that.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #10
23. I can hear the republicans already
those Haitians should just get a job! :rofl:
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #23
34. I already got that e-mail from a right wing friend. Really, I did. nt
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
14. right. as long as you're not stealing it from others who are also in need.
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
17. Its not stealing if you rip it out of the hands of a starving child - its survival of the fittest?
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 10:20 AM by stray cat
if you are bigger and stronger you have to take what you need from the weak ones among you to survive.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. That's not what's being advanced here. nt
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fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Its not stealing, its taking
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 10:23 AM by fishnfla
and any manner which you choose to do it is OK. and if you say you would never do it, there is something wrong with you
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
20. My Dad told me Eleanor had said that, and he agreed
I was raised accordingly.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
21. Elinor was a pretty awesome woman- who wasn't afraid to
make people uncomfortable- You reminded me of this story about mayor LaGuardia:




"Fiorella LaGuardia was the mayor of New York during the worst days of the Great Depression and all of World War II. He was adored by the citizens of New York a colorful character who used to ride the New York fire trucks, carried out raids with the police department, and would take entire orphanages to baseball games.

One bitterly cold night in January of 1935, the mayor turned up at a night court that served the poorest ward of the city. LaGuardia dismissed the judge for the evening and took over the bench himself. Within a few moments, a tattered old woman was brought before him, charged with stealing a loaf of bread. She told LaGuardia that her daughters husband had deserted her, her daughter was sick, and her two grandchildren were starving. But the shopkeeper, from whom the bread was stolen, refused to drop the charges. Its a bad neighborhood, you Honor, the man told the mayor. Shes got to be punished to teach other people around here a lesson.

LaGuardia sighed. He turned to the woman and said, Ive got to punish you. The law makes no exceptions ten dollars or ten days in jail. But even as he pronounced sentence, the mayor was already reaching into his pocket. He extracted a bill and tossed it on the bench saying: Here is the ten dollar fine which I now remit; and furthermore I am going to fine everyone in this courtroom fifty cents for living in a town where a person has to steal bread so that her grandchildren can eat. Mr. Bailiff, collect the fines and give them to the defendant.

So the following day the New York City newspapers reported that $47.50 was turned over to a bewildered old lady who had stolen a loaf of bread to feed her starving grandchildren, fifty cents of that amount being contributed by the red-faced grocery store owner, while some seventy petty criminals, people with traffic violations, and New York City policemen, each of whom had just paid fifty cents for the privilege of doing so, gave the mayor a standing ovation."

FROM: The Ragamuffin Gospel by Brennan Manning
(SNOPES cannot confirm or de-bunk this legend)


:grouphug:

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diane in sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
24. We had feasts here after the 89 quake because people had to eat their freezer food
before it spoiled. People were actually quite civil to each other in the streets. If we'd been cut off for days and hungry to start with, than it would be time to get food and water wherever they could be found.

I keep a solar cooker, lots of dried beans, canned food, water filters, camping stuff etc. around because there will be more quakes. Tho if the house is demolished or burns down than that's all futile.

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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Same with Isabel in Va. Beach. A lot of trading and bargaining. nt
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
25. k&R I agree but news reporters have control over whether it's looting or scavenging..
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
27. One never knows exactly what they will do in a disaster..tragedy with no escape ..
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 12:16 PM by flyarm
survival is a strong instinct..just look to the story about the athletes who crashed in the Andes mountains.

As an airline crew member who was in several emergencies..I would hate to tell you what some people did and how they behaved..but I knew it was survival insticts and adrenalin that made people react the way they did.

Every person has different levels of survival instincts.

I saw much the same going through the Northridge Earthquake.

You can "guess " how you would react..but you would never know unless confronted with a trumatic disaster, or horrific tragedy of epic proportions.

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Withywindle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
28. Yup. Almost all of us would.
But there's a different standard when it comes to "stealing" for some people than there is for others.

Running a country's economy into the ground for your own personal gain while keeping billions offshore to avoid taxes? That's just business.

Taking some food from an abandoned grocery store in a disaster (that would probably go bad shortly anyway)? That's "looting." Especially if you're black.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
29. In a state of anarchy, humans will inevitably turn to violence.
Anarchy being defined as a lack of legitimate authority. That authority can be maintained through voluntary cooperation or through force.

We would all look the same in these catastrophic events. If anyone says otherwise, they are self-absorbed and dishonest.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. A few will. Most will inevitably turn to co-operation, giving and sharing.
Believe it.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
30. K&R.
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