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Is there an overarching lesson in what's happening in MA?

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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:57 AM
Original message
Is there an overarching lesson in what's happening in MA?
I don't think so. Part of it is the political environment, but looking back an even larger part is personality politics and Coakley's arrogance and errors + the MSM gleefully doing their part

Coakley took her election completely for granted. Good politicians don't do that. You will never see Bernie acting like Coakley did. Coakley had a huge lead at the time she won the primary. How did she piss it away? She virtually disappeared. Well after the warning signs were flashing neon bright, she stayed off the campaign trail. And when she did get on it, it was too little too late, gaffes by the truckload and she presents as strangely detached . Brown exploited his opponent's weaknesses and he was everywhere in MA.

Yes, in another time against another candidate, Coakeley may very well have won with ease, but the fail belongs largely to her (win or lose).

I firmly believe that if Michael Capuano had won the primary he'd be handily beating Brown, and not just because he's a progressive dem- his positions are not very different from her's- but because he's a far more appealing and competent candidate.
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Aviation Pro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yes, the lesson is....
...many, many folks who are miserable want everyone else to be miserable.
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dalter2009 Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yes there is a lesson
Which, by inspection, Obama and the dem leaders and apparently you ignore at your peril.
The health care bill is an atrocity. It is not reform, it is a huge giveaway to the health insurance companies.

Obama will not enforce accountability on any of the Republican criminals who got us into this mess; instead he bails them out at taxpayer and worker's expense.

Deeds speak, what planet do you live on? Obama and the dems were given a mandate for accountability, for real change, and all we have gotten is more of the same.

Lets hope a Brown victory wakes you up in time for November, for if not, your party must be removed from office. God help us, your giveaways to corporate criminals make you worse than the Repubs.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:42 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. You could't be more full of shit. Here's why:
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 06:45 AM by RBInMaine
1) SCHIP, all kinds of green initiatives, Lilly Ledbetter law, working to close GITMO, new financial regs., a stimulus to save or create well over a million jobs, more stem cells, fewer choice restrictions, ... can you find anything there "progressive" enough for you? Or are you just another chronic bitcher?

2) The Dems have a DIVERSE national caucus, and this is a good thing as the RePUKES go TeaHater/Purist. Your ultra-left majority pipe dreams are just that. Actually having to GOVERN is reality you can't fathom from the back seat. It is on balance a moderate NATION, not The United States Of KucinichLand.

3) Health reform is very, very difficult. It is very complex, and requires huge compromise in a big, ideologically diverse nation. Sorry, but that is the way it is. It is the idea to excise tax "Cadillac Plans" that has people up in arms. They are working to tweak that. The current pipe dream of single payer is nice and one I'd love to see, but even your obvious hero Kucinich says there is not enough of a national movement to accomplish that now. The health bill does many good things too, and it is just a START. You only see the negative, much like Eeyore as some say these days.

4) The sitation in Mass. is due to campaign failures on Coakley's part, not some massive dissallusionment with the Dems there. In a deep recession, people are always "angry" and often take it out on incumbents or the incumbent party. I agree Coakley took this for granted for too long, but the ground is hot there now, the Dems and Unions are working the ground and phones hard, and I think they will win it by 3-5 points.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. ...
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 07:05 AM by Kahuna
:applause:
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daa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #4
27. Keep believing that but no body is buying it. nt
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #4
30. Please list those "ultra-left" issues.
Thank you in advance.
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
29. "your party must be removed from office" What party do you represent?
:shrug:
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:00 AM
Response to Original message
5. It's Always Tough To Stay On Top
You're right about Coakley running a horrible campaign and taking the election for granted, but I think the problems is more endemic. The Democrats are suffering from their own success...or a lack of understanding why they won the past two elections. The two last elections were refferendums on the GOOP. '06 was on the GOOP control of the House & Senate...their corruption allowed Democrats to pick up seats...and then in '08 it was a referendum on the 8 years of booosh and if the GOOP was worthy of passing the messes along to McCain...again they were rejected. Democrats won despite rather than because what they stood for.

Now the shoe's on the other foot...Democrats control all the games inside the beltway and are being held responsible, rightly or not, for a lot of our current problems. The Obama administration either misread or were just too arrogant to see how tenuous their victory was. Yes, people wanted "change", but the definition changed from one person to the next. With all the promises and high expectations, this Admnistration has floundered that is now creating a perception that President Obama and the Democrats are inept. It's not that the GOOP is much better, but they're not on the clock, the Democrats are.

No doubt the corporate media is gladly spreading the memes and are happy to have rushpublicans crowd their airwaves to blame, lie and distort and have the escape hatch of not having any real power.

Maybe the PPP poll last week has woken some people up, but it may be too late for Coakley and with it, this Administration could find itself muzzled as a result. I see Brown as another Normie Coleman...a partisan leech who snuck under the radar...a goon that the people in Massetchussets may regret electing, but at this point, it's a "mandate" not only on this Administration but on the lack of effective direction of the national party...the 50 state strategy has been scrapped. Here's hoping Coakley does win this thing, but the message here is loud and clear...Democrats will have a tough time this year...and it was to be expected...and no votes can be taken for granted, they must be earned...and the job of each Congressional and Senate candidate to work twice as hard to connect with voters rather than the corporates.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:02 AM
Response to Original message
6. Respectfully disagree.
I think that there is a very important political lesson being presented in that state.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #6
31. Indeed. The lesson is: don't sell out to health care interests and call it reform.
It appears the president won't get it until he wakes up in November with significant losses in congress and a new congress that won't be as friendly as this one.

I don't think the party has ever blown its opportunity to lead like it has the past six months. Outside the president's hardcore loyalists, I don't hear anyone who feels the party has delivered on its promises of 2008.

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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:03 AM
Response to Original message
7. Dear lord!
You just wont see what is really happening here in MA.

Martha Coakley was doing just fine UNTIL she was forced to flip and support this health insurance bill. She won the primary over Capuano. How do you explain her 47% win of that primary to his 28%? Her personality was just fine then!

You people from other states need to stop trying to cover for Obamas bill. You are helping destroy other good Dems. You want a shovel to help bury her? This bill is not doing that good enough for you?

Just stop this shit! The people of MA know what is actually happening here. People like you and your superior, know it all, attitude need to open you ears and shut your mouths.

This bill is killing her here, NOTHING ELSE!. This bill alone has given the republicans their energized base. This bill is the kiss of death here in MA.

Your criticizing Martha at this time is not helpful. Maybe you can just campaign for the republican.
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. I have heard a couple of Massachusans (?) say exactly the same thing
That this is a referendum on healthcare and little else. Which is all the weirder since Mass already has mandated Romney care. Which in polls people dislike, BUT don't want to get rid of. All very very confusing. Do Masschus. . . . people from Massachusetts feel like they'll be trading down with the HCR as it stands? Any insight you can offer would be helpful to making sense of all this.

I personally feel that the entirely Democratically written HCR valentine to Pharma and the insurance companies will bring down a whole boatload of Dems in coming elections as the Republicans exploit their own fake populism and hatred of Big Government which the Dems have played right into by not offering real reform with a public option.
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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. We are not to enamored with Romneycare either. n/t
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. I've watched pretty closely
she's run the worst campaign I've seen in a very long time. Few people bothered to vote in the primary. Your ignoring her numerous screw ups doesn't change reality.
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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. Your wrong.
You want to keep blaming Martha without looking at the actual problem here in MA. You are more interested in saving your argument than actually doing something constructive. We will see what your denial (that it is this bill killing Martha) brings in the mid- terms when other Dems are fighting for their lives. Way to go!
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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. One more point.
Why did so few people bother to vote in the primary? Ask your self that. The correct answer is: they sat home because of her flip to support the HCR bill. It was a warning call. Get it? WE DEMs LIKE COAKLEY HERE IN MA, can you hear me now????? We may not love her but we like her well enough.
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lukasahero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #7
38. Getting tired of out-of-staters telling us what's up, huh?
Me too.

Thanks for the righteous rant! Hang in there, it's almost over. :hi:
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
10. I think folks should wait after the election to write the eulogy......but till then,
Last I checked, Democratic Underground is all about
working hard for Democratic wins,
not about promoting Democratic loses.

DU RULES

You are not permitted to use this message board to work for the defeat of the Democratic Party nominee for any political office. If you wish to work for the defeat of any Democratic candidate in any General Election, then you are welcome to use someone else's bandwidth on some other website.

Democratic Underground may not be used for political, partisan, or advocacy activity by supporters of any political party or candidate other than the Democratic Party or Democratic candidates. Supporters of certain other political parties may use Democratic Underground for limited partisan activities in political races where there is no Democratic Party candidate.

Do not post broad-brush smears against Democrats or the Democratic Party.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Be prepared to repeat these rules over and over again in the mid terms
because you are gonna need it when the mid terms get here.

Quite a two edge sword that's been created here, huh?
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. I think during the primaries, whatever goes, goes......
but this is not a primary.

The rules are clear,
and I wish people
would respect that....
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. So after an election we can criticize Barack Obama?? And it's not working against Dems??
That goes against just about every thread you write here.

This place is filled with a bunch of hypocrites.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. You can and have said what you've wanted about Barack Obama.....
We are supposed to be generally supportive,
and when we are not, we are supposed to be constructive
in our criticism.

But during an election,
we are not supposed to work
in promoting the defeat of the Democratic candidate.

I shouldn't have to make it any clearer.

Hypocrites are people who say they are activists,
but when it comes time to act,
they just talk,
and negatively at that.
Those folks "analysing" this election race
by criticizing Coakley,
while not saying shit about Brown,
are poseurs as far as I'm concerned....
and should feel free to go use some other bandwith
in dissing the Democrat in the race.

Those are the rules,
and they are clear.

DU RULES

You are not permitted to use this message board to work for the defeat of the Democratic Party nominee for any political office. If you wish to work for the defeat of any Democratic candidate in any General Election, then you are welcome to use someone else's bandwidth on some other website.

Democratic Underground may not be used for political, partisan, or advocacy activity by supporters of any political party or candidate other than the Democratic Party or Democratic candidates. Supporters of certain other political parties may use Democratic Underground for limited partisan activities in political races where there is no Democratic Party candidate.

Do not post broad-brush smears against Democrats or the Democratic Party.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detai...


We are two days away from a general election.
Please refrain from discouraging those of us
working to better this country.

If we want to be demoralized,
we know where to go,
and it isn't supposed to be here.

THANK YOU!

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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #18
32. It's clear that your vision of the RULES here is badly mistaken.
Instead of telling others the rules and telling them that YOUR interpretation of the rules matters, why don't you do as the RULES provide? Why don't you alert on posts you believe are in violation of the rules and then allow the site owners and their reps to interpret the rules?

Orly Taintz thinks she understands law, but she doesn't, so there's a lesson in that for you.

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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #18
35. Because Brown NEVER should have been an issue in the first place
But because of her arrogance AND the flip on HCR she has quite possibly lost this election. Had she not done those thing Brown would not have even been a blip on the screen.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. Your bizarre interpretation of the DU rules, is thankfully not the one used by
the administration. Trying to silence real discussion is just pathetic to see.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
19. We can choose to believe what we will. Ignoring the fact that the
Health Care Bill has become almost toxic. Brown has run
his race almost as a referendum on the HCR Bill.

Coakley won her elections in the past with high positives.

I am trying to say this without be accused of flamebaiting.

Obama and the Democrats have not at all done a good job
with handling the HCR Bill. You have to bring the people
along with you. The people have your back. The opposition
can squwk as loudly as they wish but if you have the people
with you, your legislation cannot be touched.. You win.

This has not happened. Instead polling shows Dems and HCR
drop drop dropping. Brown with help of GOP exploited this.

Coakley won her elections in the past well. Nothing happened
but Brown exploiting the HCR Bill to change things.

We must agree the HCR has been handled terribly. When you
alienate large numbers of activists, stick your finger in
the eye of Labor Unions and come across as supporter of
Big Pharma and Big Insurance---this hurts any candidate.
The national party is having its toll.





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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. You are truly a broken record.
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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. But the poster is singing a true song! More than I can say
for some others in this thread.
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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #21
28. O.M.G. the irony is overwhelming.
the irony is overwhelming.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. Ain't it, though?
Sheesh
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #28
34. No kidding, right?
:wow:
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
24. Yes, run clear, strong, aggressive campaigns from the get go !
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
25. Noting her specific deficienciesdoesn't answerthe question
In a good economy a lot of poorly run businesses survive and a lot of useless employees remain employed. When the background trend changes a lot of narrow, specific problems become back-breakers.

The fact that Coakley could lose because she's a bad candidate IS an overarching trend. Two years ago she would have had no problem despite being a bad candidate.

In 1994 a lot of pugs won almost accidentally. It seems safe to assume that not every Dem who won in 2006 and 2008 was a good candidate.

The overarching lesson is that the wind at our backs that would have allowed a lackluster entrant like Coakley to cruise has shifted and is now in our face.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. I agree. Two years ago she wouldn't have had a problem. It's a combination
of factors. And I definitely agree that the political environment has changed..
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
36. Yes - HCR is a joke, Iraqistan is a tragedy, and bailing out banksters is political suicide.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
37. Yeah, there's a lesson.
Never just assume that you're going to win.
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