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Whoah whoah wait wait. It was the splinterists who pissed all over us.

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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 03:06 AM
Original message
Whoah whoah wait wait. It was the splinterists who pissed all over us.
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 03:08 AM by LoZoccolo
I keep hearing this exaggeration on behalf of these crypto-splinterists who like to imply they're going to vote third-party but don't go so far as explicitly breaking the rules, that they worked so hard for Obama and then they got pissed on.

Excuse me?

It was splinterism that gave us eight years of Bush*. Obama has been president for one. You owe us seven years still.

You really should put some effort into fixing what you broke.

And don't say you got "nothing" because even when we show you the list you say "oh, that list again" like you don't have to acknowledge it. You'll never admit that you got anything, so why should anyone give you more?

And the fact that your strategy for gaining support relies on copious amounts of hyperbole and manipulation doesn't endear me to your point of view, and is probably behind it's shameless dismissal by Democratic leaders.

(Remember, we at DU support Democrats, so I'm not calling anyone out because no on here is a splinterist.)
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 03:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. ...is a shit statement.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 03:16 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. +1
As has been said- some people are incapable of learning- no matter how many times they make or watch the same mistake being made.

Playing Republican lite- backslapping the base and enacting irresponsible public policy caused loss after loss for 12 years. Dean finally comes along, rebuilds the party- puts forth a progressive agenda lo and behold, we win elections!

The same damn crew comes along and panders to the corporate right, puts forth crap policies and threatens to throw away all their gains. Again.
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WonderGrunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
24. How is it being an "Aggressive Progressive" by sitting out the next vote?
That sounds more like a "Passive-Aggressive Progressive"
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 03:20 AM
Response to Original message
3. botnet army reporting for duty.
:patriot:

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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 03:22 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Yep, did you notice? It started out at +1. n/t
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I'm the one who rec'd it down.
Of course I noticed. :D
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Electric Monk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 03:29 AM
Response to Original message
6. "It was splinterism that gave us eight years of Bush" Total shit statement.
Totally, you're full of it. Totally.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Most of the 2000 Nader voters agree with me, seeing as they did not repeat their mistake. n/t
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Exactly.
Nader's vote share went down 90% in the next Presidential election for an arguably less liberal candidate.
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conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #10
23. So Floridas corrupt election and votwe counts
had nothing to do with bushco?
The USSC had nothing to do with bushco?

What fucking planet do you live on?
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. I did not say that. n/t
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 11:12 AM by LoZoccolo
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 03:30 AM
Response to Original message
7. Naderites & Greens aren't Democrats
And that is not a shit statement.

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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 03:51 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. They sure learned to be Democrats by the time 2004 rolled around.
In 2000, Nader got 2,882,955 votes, or 2.7%.
In 2004, Nader got 465,650 votes, or 0.38%.

The vast majority of these people are cogniscent of the consequences of their actions. They took responsibility for them in 2004, and they can take responsibility for them in 2010. And I will hold them responsible whether or not they do.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 04:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Yeah, 2% of the electorate is responsible for Bush's actions. Great civics education you mustve had.
And the Communists and limp-wristed liberal splitters in Weimar were responsible for the rise of Nazi Germany.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 04:22 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. So why do you think so many turned back on their decision?
Wouldn't happen to be that they knew the effect of it, would it?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #8
21. No, they faced reality by 2004
They did not turn into Democrats. Big difference. Yes many learned their vote matters, now they need to learn how to make their voice matter. It's not by stomping up and down and throwing fits.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 03:55 AM
Response to Original message
9. "You owe us seven years still"--too right! KnR.
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 04:11 AM
Response to Original message
12. Big K & R. n/t
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Umbral Donating Member (969 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 04:30 AM
Response to Original message
15. Fixing what "I" broke?
One thing about 'centrist' Democrats, they are no better at accepting responsibility for their actions than the average Republican.
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okie Donating Member (158 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 04:31 AM
Response to Original message
16. Woah woah indeed
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 04:37 AM by okie
"It was splinterism that gave us eight years of Bush."

I read similar statements on these boards quite a bit. Rarely do I see them defended. Without even getting into the shenanigans in the vote counting, there's actually very little evidence Nader spoiled a Gore victory. It's a silly debate, in any case. As has been pointed out endlessly, Gore was entitled to no votes in the first place.

Check this piece out - DEBUNKING THE MYTH: Ralph Nader didn't cost Al Gore the presidency in 2000
http://politizine.blogspot.com/2004/02/debunking-myth-r...

I also think it's fair for people on the left to seriously question the notion that the country would be substantially different today if Gore had been elected in 2000. I think we'd still have 9/11. We'd still have war in Afghanistan. Folks often assume Gore would never have invaded Iraq, but it's not like the Clinton/Gore administration was ever shy about military action there. Gore was also one of many Democrats who spoke about the dangers posed by Iraq's phantom WMDs. I'm not saying Gore would certainly have wanted an invasion, but I'm not convinced he would have stood for peace. We'd still have a housing bubble. It would still have popped and we'd be in the same freefall. I could go on but the point is obvious. 8 years of Clinton did nothing to roll back the rightward shift of the Reagan years. Inequality, militarism, deregulation etc. were never seriously challenged. Why should we believe Gore would have challenged any of this? Did you follow his 2000 campaign? It's no surprise so many people were unenthusiastic.
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 04:39 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. welcome to DU!
you have your work cut out for you

:thumbsup:
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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 04:44 AM
Response to Original message
18. I hadn't realized our political system had de-evolved from a
"vote for us because we have the best candidate" system into a "you owe the party" system.
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Myrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
19. bullshit
n/t
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
20. silly
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
22. Constantly vilifying Democrats who post here is splintering.
You seem intent on doing one thing: attacking DUers who disagree with your slavish devotion to all things Obama. That's not what DU is about. DU is about promoting Democratic politicians and Democratic ideals. When Democrats fail to live up to the progressive ideals of the party, they are subject to proper criticism for doing so.

Pointing out that Democrats may lose because they fail to adhere to democratic ideals is not just acceptable here. It's the purpose of DU. Only by remaining true to our ideals can our party deliver on the promises it makes.

Every congressional election is a referendum on the president, and he's not doing that well, because he's failed to deliver on the progressive ideals he espoused to get elected.
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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
25. I see you have posted your daily pile of flaming poop !
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cbayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
27. Locking
Despite the disclaimer at the end, this is clearly a callout and group attack.

cbayer
DU Moderator
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