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I honestly hope Coakley can pull this out, but the lesson shouldn't be lost:

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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:50 AM
Original message
I honestly hope Coakley can pull this out, but the lesson shouldn't be lost:
When Democrats stop being Democrats, the base loses enthusiasm, the independents can be swayed, and the right was never going to vote for you anyway. Giving money to Wall Street--bankers or insurance companies--and taking it from the working and middle classes, either directly or as debt for generations is guaranteed to lose votes and seats in the House and Senate. Reverse Robin Hood only works for the Repukes.

Don't hate those of us who are pointing out the lesson. Brown would be a disaster, but the worse disaster will be if the Democratic party takes nothing away from this and continues their love fest with Wall Street. Then we will surely lose the House in November, and THAT will be far worse.

So good luck to Coakley but God help the rest of us.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. i still don't see why they would vote Brown if they want someone more liberal
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Grand Taurean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Because swing voters and many independents
vote on emotions and simple things like sport team preferences.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Swing/independent voters respond mostly to the ads
The base responds to policy.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. fuck them, they are not liberal if they are ok with Brown winning
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Probably because they know its not a full term, and they hope
the Democrats come up with a real liberal to face Brown in a few years?

Just throwing it out there.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. so why not run someone against Coakley in the primary for 2012 ?
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #8
19. Its hard to primary an entrenched candidate from your own party
They get all the corporate money, and they have the better campaign managers lining up bidding to run the reelection.

The same holds true for a Democrat running against Brown (should he win this time), but Mass is traditionally liberal, so a Democrat theoretically should be able to beat him provided the Dem is considered a liberal by the voters.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. of course it's hard, and i always knew those fake liberals didn't want to do hard work
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Unenthusiastic voters who feel betrayed stay home.
It's not a matter of voting for a better or worse person. It's a matter of not making that extra effort to get to the polls. That's all.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. if they are feeling betrayed there is something seriously fucked up about them
and they certainly aren't liberals or democrats.

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Grand Taurean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Coakley is fairly liberal.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. maybe that's their problem with her, i never thought these asses were true liberals anyways
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Grand Taurean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. I am no purist either.
I do not agree with the party on everything.
Let us not get into that now though.
I still support the party.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. So is Obama, but caved to Stupak, Nelson, and Lieberman and gave billions to Wall Street
No good being "fairly liberal" if you can't be counted on to stand by your principles.

That said, I don't know Coakley's personality, but there is tremendous pressure right now to give up many standard liberal beliefs to make sure that Wall Street gets its payoff.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. so people upset about Wall Street are supporting Republicans ?
hahahhahahahha

if they are voting republican, they certainly are not upset about wall street.

again, are these people stupid like the Bush and Palin supporters who think Saddam attacked us on 9/11
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. No, not at all.
And attitudes like yours hurt rather than help.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. are they stupid like the Bush and Palin supporters who still think Iraq attacked us on 9/11
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 01:11 AM by JI7
that's what they seem like to me.

these so called liberals .

i don't know any liberal who is stupid like that.

so my attitude upsets them more than someone like Brown and what he stands for ?
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Not even in the right ball park dude
:)
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. certainly looks that way to me, if they support Brown they sure aren't voting on
Wall Street giveaways.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
33. They don't have to vote Brown.
They just have to stay home or vote the 3rd party candidate.
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
4. How about the simple lesson that running a decent campaign is...
part of the job?

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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. From what I hear, the seat was hers to lose, but the GOP used national politics against her
and it took until this weekend before the big party figures went up to help. It wasn't just a bad campaign: it was miscalculation of the National Dems on both the GOP strength in MA and the resentment against the Wall Street giveaways that the GOP played on.
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #9
28. Maybe the seat was hers to lose, but she may have lost it...
Brown has run an aggressive and book perfect campaign while she has pretty much hidden and clammed up for most of it. And I hear she wasn't so hot in the debate.

It sucks, but it looks like she just can't compete with the package Brown is selling. There is no one to blame, no one to yell at and no lesson to be learned.

If (if, if,if...) enough Democrats get off their asses to vote this Tuesday, she still might pull it off, but Brown has energized the Republicans and conned the independants so it won't be easy.

(One more asshole talking about sitting it out for any reason and I'm not sure what I'll do.)

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Double T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
22. The dnc Democrats have created this mess and have no one to blame but themselves.
Sometimes a swift kick to the head is required as a wake up call. chris dodd and several others already got their swift kick; THEY get it. I have my doubts the dnc leadership will ever get it. It is beginning to look like the opportunity of our lifetime has been blown by this wall street ass kissing crowd. Coakley and the dnc took angry voters for granted; HUGE mistake.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. I have to agree with this post.
Well said.

Disclaimer: flvegan does not endorse swift or any other sort of kick to the head to anyone.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. +1
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #22
34. chris dodd was in trouble because of sleazy dealings with Countryside
and other corporations.
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Double T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. chris dodd ass kissed wall street on his hands and knees THEN........
delivered credit card 'reform' that favors the banks and destroys the credit card consumer even more. chris dodd is the epitome of a sellout failed 'd'emocrat that didn't give a damn about the people that elected him to office.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
24. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
25. Yes, when even democrats repeat republican talking points
Ad nauseum, people stop listening to them. That's the lesson. What you call cozying up to Wall Street, I call distasteful emergency measures to avoid a total and complete economic collapse, which (can't say this enough) was the fault of failed republican policies republicans spent eight years helping dig us a hole. And you blame the guy who was forced to buy the ladder?
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. If you give Wall Street money, you get CONCESSIONS, new REGULATIONS--teeth
You don't just hand these assholes money and say "Here. It's yours. No strings!"
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. concessions?
first off, the government doesn't get 'concessions' from Wall Street or any other industry, the government regulates.

second off, what concessions exactly? repayment with interest? check. collateral bonds? check. flat out equity? check. making a profit on your investments? (did you know the Federal Reserve, which did most of the non-TARP investing, made a profit of 86 billion this year? that went straight to the treasury)

oh, I got it, this is about compensation, isn't it? bonuses? that's what you think needs concessions and regulations? right? why not just say so?
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 02:08 AM
Response to Original message
27. No one expected great things from Al Franken
His campaign was less than inspiring, and although Obama carried Minnesota convincingly, Franken's win was a squeaker.
As uninspiring as his campaign was, Franken has turned out to be a remarkable Senator so far. If it comes down to giving
Coakley the same chance; or letting Brown walk away with it, I wouldn't have to be asked twice to vote for Coakley. Just
because she isn't Bernie Sanders is no reason to count her out and abandon her quest to beat Brown.

If just a couple of thousand Virginians had said WTF a few years back, they might have been saddled with Senator Oliver North.

Like Barbara Boxer said (in a different context), "elections have consequences." So will this one.
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Gravel Democrat Donating Member (598 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 02:51 AM
Response to Original message
30. There are some troubling things about Coakley
"Coakley's actions as District Attorney in the sexual abuse case of a 23-month old girl in 2005 have drawn sharp criticism. <39> Coakley, who oversaw the Grand Jury for the case, did not indict the individual, a Somerville Police Officer. Later, after a criminal complaint was filed by the parents of the victim, she requested that he be released without cash bail. The DA succeeding Coakley subsequently secured a conviction awarding two life sentences for the crime. Coakley has defended her actions in this case <40> , saying she acted appropriately given the evidence that was available at the time."

Coakley received sharp criticism from major newspapers in Massachusetts for failure to recommend commutation for Gerald Amirault who is widely cited as a falsely accused party in a Day care sex abuse hysteria case, the Fells Acres Day Care Center preschool trial. Despite releasing two women from the family from custody, Amirault was denied commutation, which critics cite as an example of a double standard.<41>. Wall Street Journal reporter Dorothy Rabinowitz cites her pursuit of the case despite lack of corroborating evidence as an example of questionable judgment on Coakley's part.<42>

Coakley admitted to making an "honest mistake" while filing the financial disclosure forms for her senate run claiming to have no personal assets when in fact she had an account under her husbands name with over $200,000 and a personal IRA containing approximatly $12,000. <48>

"She also declined to reprimand the state's District Attorneys in relation to false statements they allegedly made regarding the effects of the state's voter approved Massachusetts Sensible Marijuana Policy Initiative in an attempt to defeat the ballot question, as well as allegations the District Attorneys misused state resources (website) and failed to file as designated ballot committee in a timely manner while receiving contributions as required by law while challenging the initiative.<35>....(more)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Coakley

Coakleys corporate connection--Coakley is in the middle of a tight race and she's flying to DC one week before the election to be with a group of corporate lobbyists?
And then Carney went down the list of 22 members of the host committees - meaning they each raised $10,000 or more for Coakley.
"Seventeen are federally registered lobbyists, 15 of whom have health-care clients," Carney said.
"You see the names - Gerald Cassidy, David Castagnetti,, Tommy Boggs - those are all lobbyists I've highlighted there who have clients who are drug companies, health insurers, hospitals or all three," Carney said. "AHIP, Phrma, Pfizer, Blue Cross - everybody is covered there. Aetna somehow isn't. I don't know how they got left out."
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/01/15-10

Coakley in trouble? Pharma and HMO lobbyists to the rescue
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway...



Here are some of Coakley fundraiser hosts with some of their current health care clients:

* Thomas Boggs, Patton Boggs: Bristol-Myers Squibb
* Chuck Brain, Capitol Hill Strategies: Amgen, BIO, Merck, PhRMA
* Susan Brophy, Glover Park Group: Blue Cross, Pfizer
* Steven Champlin, Duberstein Group: AHIP, Novartis, Sanofi-Aventis
* Licy Do Canto, Raben Group: Amgen
* Gerald Cassidy, Cassidy & Associates: U. Mass Memorial Health Care
* David Castagnetti, Mehlman, Vogel, Castagnetti: Abbot Labs, AHIP, Astra-Zenaca, General Electric, Humana, Merck, PhRMA.
* Steven Elmendorf, Elmendorf Strategies: Medicines Company, PhRMA, United Health
* Shannon Finley, Capitol Counsel: Amgen, Astra-Zeneca, Blue Cross, GE, PhRMA, Sanofi-Aventis.
* Heather Podesta, Heather Podesta & Partners: Cigna, Eli Lilly, HealthSouth
* Tony Podesta, Podesta Group: Amgen, GE, Merck, Novartis.
* Robert Raben, Raben Group: Amgen, GE.


If this is what a "New Democrat" is and if this is the best the Democrats have to offer in the Great State of MA, It's an example of how far the party has fallen. Or maybe all this stuff has a good explanation.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 03:10 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Thank you for the information
Look at all those health insurance and Big Pharma people....
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #30
37. thanks more corp bs who picked her to run ?
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
35. What money was "directly taken" from the working and middle class to pay for TARP? - none
try again
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
36. The polls show it is the independents
And that most Dems in MA support Coakley and the current health reform.

The lesson is about the middle/center voters.
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naaman fletcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
39. I hope she wins, but she belongs in jail.
For what she did to the Amiraults. She is a terrible candidate.
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