Cho hired female escort before killings

[Nikki Stone1]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/VATech/story?id=3071730&page=1&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

""I danced for a little while and I thought we were done because he got up and went to the restroom and began washing," said Frye, a white woman with blond hair. Frye told WSLS that she told Cho she was going to leave, to which he responded that he had paid for a full hour and she had only performed 15 minutes. When she resumed dancing, Frye said that Cho touched her and tried "to get on" her before she pushed him away. Cho then apparently respected her wishes.

Frye said she thought Cho looked familiar when she saw his face in the coverage of the Virginia Tech killings. Cho fatally shot 32 people and then himself on April 16. She got a call from the FBI, which she said tracked her down through Cho's credit card receipts. Frye said that during a weekend interview, investigators asked her to describe Cho using three words. She chose "dorky," "timid" and a "little pushy."....

....Mounting evidence of Cho's behavior toward women has emerged in the week since he was identified as the Virginia Tech gunman. Twice, Virginia Tech police were called in fall 2005 after women complained of Cho's "annoying behavior" on campus. And one Virginia Tech English professor asked her department head to have Cho removed from class after some female students began to boycott the class, alleging that Cho was taking photographs of them under their desks with a camera phone.

[Colobo]

1. That's not an escort. That's a stripper that ripped him off.

LOL!

[Nikki Stone1]

2. Apparently she was a dancer, and she danced for the hour she was paid

Maybe you have her confused with someone else?

[morgan2]

6. she probably slept with him

just not stupid enough to admit it and go to jail.

[Maru Kitteh]

20. And you brilliantly gleaned that from the article............ how?

[jobycom]

29. That's what I gleaned, too.

Not so much from the article, but from experience. I used to work nights at a hotel, and we had cops as security guards, so I got taught the system. "Escort" usually means prostitute, but since that is illegal, they advertise as anything from masseuse to dancer to companion. Ads will generally include some passage like "Monetary fees are for companionship only. No offer of sex is implied or stated. Anything that happens between us at our appointment is voluntary and between consenting adults." You can find these ads printed in some papers, or even published on certain web sites on the Internet.

Offering sex for money is a crime. Offering dancing for money, then having consentual sex, is not, but it is hard to prove the difference. Therefore, if a cop shows up on the doorstep and asks an escort if she had sex with a client, she is generally going to say no. There are probably a handful of "escorts" who do provide only dancing, and of course if one thinks her client is an undercover cop, she will be sure to offer no more than that, but if Cho knew enough to contact an escort, he would know how to be sure to get the right kind. The price alone would reveal that.

I remember believing the cops were overly cynical about this, until I'd been there a while. You'd be amazed to know how much the night staff knows about what's going on in their hotel. Who you are calling, who is visiting the hotel after hours, what floor the overly-dressed woman entering at 11:00 PM carrying an overly large and usually not matching purse takes the elevator to, what room on that floor has been placing too many calls... (although it's a little harder now that most people have cell phones).

[Bicoastal]

31. She may do that from time to time for all we know...

....but I doubt he had sex with her, even if that was the original arrangement.

It's nothing but a gut feeling, but I doubt he was interested in anything but "revenge" at this stage. He probably hired her because he didn't want to die a virign, and then realized later that he didn't even care about sex anymore, such was his obsession with his "blaze of glory" suicide fantasy. It just seems in keeping with descriptions of his behavior just prior to the shooting.

But again, it's all irrelevant. The only reason why the media is bringing it up is because this sort of thing is "sexier" than ammunition, psychotic delusions and weeping victims' families. It's sick.

[jobycom]

39. I disagree that the media is trying to make this sexy

I don't see anything sexy in the story. The media is just trying to portray his mindset--his social ineptness, his attitude and actions towards women. These things are hints into how he thought, and they are possible indicators, when taken in context of his other problems, of personality disorder or mental illness.

It also hints how committed he was to his plan, that he didn't just wake up one morning and say "Okay, now I'll do it."

[Nikki Stone1]

47. I disagree, respectfully. Here's why:

Cho's first murder victim was a young co-ed named Emily and the cops immediately classified it as a "domestic" case. Even after it was clear that there was no romantic (ie sexual) connection between Emily and Cho, the police and the press continued and are continuing to look for it. (Interestingly, race hasn't entered as a motive, even though Cho was Korean and the first two victims were white and African American.)

The police and the press have an idee fixe about this murderous rampage: it must be about sex. So it's cherchez la femme, and when they find that Cho hired a dancer, they are all over it. In the end, it's all about blaming women for this crime. If someone had just had sex with this poor guy, there would have been no killing rampage, right?

It's only the British press that seems to have gotten it right. Cho showed signs of autism at a very early age. His parents were very worried that he was autistic, but did not have the money to get him treated. (At least that is the story). The whole damned Cho family knew something was wrong with him for years, as did his neighbors, kids at school and anyone who came into contact with him. His symptoms sound quite similar to Asperger's syndrome: Cho demonstrated the lack of social aptitute which is characteristic of this type of autism. The Unabomber had similar symptoms.

The Cho story should be about mental illness and the horrible state of American medicine in which an autistic kid cannot get the help he needs early on because one needs money to get basic medical care. That's the story. The sexual issues may be an outgrowth of a more general social ineptness brought on by the autism. So far, the American media has ignored this. Better to paint Cho as this "horny little foreigner" who just needed to get laid and he wouldn't have killed anyone. Better to blame the whole thing on women (who rejected him) and not on the American medical system which made care for this guy at an early age impossible,

[jobycom]

56. I haven't seen that at all. What I've seen is a focus on mental illness.

The cops originally thought the first murders were "domestic" because the victim's roommate suspected the victim's boyfriend, who was a gun enthusiast. The cops located this suspect quickly, and began interrogating him, and were rather convinced they had the right person, so they were releasing the hints that the shooting was domestic. The suspect admitted he had guns, for instance, but said he had brought them to his mother's house the week before, so he couldn't show the guns to them. Classic evasive behavior in cases like that. They were interrogating the man at his residence when the second shootings began. Even afterwards, they weren't sure the original suspect was innocent. They thought either the shootings were unconnected, or that the boyfriend was an accomplice.

The cops continued to look for evidence involving the first victim, for a couple of reasons. First, they wanted to be sure there weren't accomplices. Second, they wanted to know, still want to know, what set Cho off--both long term and short term. This is important, because it gives them and mental health professionals information they might use in future cases. But also, they have questions about what happened. Why did Cho shoot two people, that he seemed to target specifically, then go away for two hours. Yeah, he was making and mailing his tapes, but that's interesting in itself. If he planned to do it that day, why didn't he already have it all ready, why didn't he mail it before the first shooting, or at least have it ready to mail? Obviously, he may not have mailed it because he wasn't sure he had the nerve.

There are a lot of questions involving his actions, and the answers to these questions can help pinpoint the specific mental illness he suffered from, and can give clues to professionals as to what set him off.

I've heard no one say or even imply that if had gotten laid he wouldn't have done it. Even so, that would be important to learn. Many mental illnesses, such as schizophrenia in its various forms, are thought to be genetic predispositions that may be triggered by traumatic events--immediate events, or lifetime patterns. My brother, a schizophrenic, was triggered by a lifetime of social pressures, combined with drug use. Actually, from what his doctor has said and from what he's said, sex (not lack of it) played a role in that. It's a powerful physical and emotional stress, and a mind already predisposed to schizophrenia or other mental illnesses can break under that stress.

So I disagree completely with what you're saying. The questions being asked aren't coming from the media, they are coming from the investigators. The media may be covering it poorly (name something they cover well), but these are legitimate, even critical questions to answer, assuming that we are investigating the incident with the intentions of better understanding mental illness so we can be more successful at recognizing and treating it in the future.

If it's just a morbid curiosity, then the sickness is on our parts, sex or not.

[Nikki Stone1]

64. That may be your take. But the media is working from a different script

The real clues to Cho's behavior go back to his childhood. He was known to be withdrawn, without friends and odd-behaving in general from childhood. His mother suspected he was autistic. Family and friends of the family knew there was something not normal about the kid. The real story here is that no one did anything about him. Even at the university, when he went for treatment, he seems not to have been served well. Something is not right about American medicine.

The press, on the other hand, stresses the sex angle every chance it can get. They are focused on immediate causes and the gender of his first victim.

[mainegreen]

49. Escort does not usually mean prostitute. There are agencies that are 'dancing' only.

I used to drive for one of them when I was younger and much poorer. Non of the girls had sex or performed sexual favors for clients. Most shows were simply bachelor parties or similar gatherings.
Yes some agencies are a front for prostitution, but many are not.
It was interesting to here the girls make fun of the agencies that were fronts for prostitution. Everyone knew which agencies were fronts and the consensus was that they were sketchy and gross.

[Nikki Stone1]

51. That sounds right. Dancers are hired for all kinds of occasions, like bachelorette parties

:)

[marshall]

52. What was he doing when he was "washing up"?

Maybe there was no sex, but to me that suggests he was masturbating while the girl danced, as if the woman was live porn. I'm sure they are also looking for XXX videos and magazines. And it makes sense from his rambling letter that he was angry at people who were "hooking up" while he was left alone.

[mainegreen]

57. If he masturbates, that does not make the girl a prostitute.

You're right with this comment: live porn.
But then I do not feel porn should be labeled as wrong.

[jobycom]

58. Dancers are usually called dancers, or strippers.

Now, it's possible that the media is calling a dancer an escort, but nowadays (I have no idea how long ago you did this) the term escort has a prostitution connotation.


es·cort (skôrt)
n.
1.
a. One or more persons accompanying another to guide, protect, or show honor.
b. A man who is the companion of a woman, especially on a social occasion.
c. A person, often a prostitute, who is hired to spend time with another as a companion.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/escort

* A person who accompanies another person to a location or (usually formal) event such as a ball, cotillion or wedding to provide protection, support, or company.
* A person who accompanies another person or group of persons in order to guide them or guard them, such as a medical escort or a military escort.
* A type of ship or airplane used to protect other ships or airplanes, especially in convoys.
* A sex worker engaged in acts of prostitution. See call girl or male prostitute.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escorts

[mainegreen]

59. A regional difference perhaps?

Around 5 years ago escort and stripper were pretty much interchangeable.
Dancers were strictly the girls who worked in house only at strip clubs.
:shrug:

[jobycom]

60. I wondered that, too, after I posted. Maybe.

Several of my cop buddies worked or had worked vice. They said the cops usually left the escort services alone, because it was off the streets, and because it was hard to prove quid pro quo, except with complex sting operations (I saw a couple of those at the hotel, mostly going after the customer, not the escorts). Texas does seem to have a history with such things. "The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas," ZZ Top's "La Grange" ("They got a lot of nice girls there").

Interestingly, most of the cops said they never understood why it was illegal in the first place. One cop, a veteran they called "Super Cop" around here, said that when he was younger, and Austin was much smaller, they used to force him to work vice, and they'd publish the names of the women arrested by vice, and of the arresting officers. This cop said his father would get angry with him every time his name appeared in the paper. "These women are trying to make a living. You have no business arresting them," he would say.

Same cop once shook down a customer who had robbed one of the escorts. She came downstairs, angry, and asked for security, and told him the man had stolen her day planner. The cop "escorted" her back to the room, where the man threw a fit, at first denied having ever seen the woman, then said she was someone he had just met. Meanwhile, the cop noticed some dust on the bed, and footprints, so he climbed on the bed and moved the ceiling tile right over the footprints. Sure enough, there was the day planner. "This yours?" the cop asked the woman. The man went ballistic. "You're a cop! You're helping a hooker! She's a hooker!"

My cop buddy looked him in the eye. "A hooker? Really? You want to file a complaint, sir? Are you married?" Dude said not another word.

Long answer for such a short post, eh? :rofl:

[mainegreen]

62. The cops were always nice to us.

Of course I would run into cops from time to time driving for the agency. All you had to do was answer their questions honestly and you were on your way.

Once, I was to take two ladies to this rich guys office in his building down by the docks (yes, the docks), but when I got there he was pulled over by the cops. I figured the jon would not appreciate me pulling up in a car with the ladies, so I kept driving and took a 5 minute detour. When I got back the officer was still there so I went for *another* big loop. The third time around the officer was *still* there so the ladies basically said screw it, take us back to the office. Of course the officer noticed my car circling three times, thought it was sketchy, and caught up with me and pulled me over. The ladies were of course a little worried, but I wasn't. The officer asked me to step out of the car with license, registration and proof of insurance and wait by the front of the car, which of course I happily obliged. You really couldn't blame the guy for thinking something was up!
When he came back he stated that he noticed me 'cruising' and wanted to know what the two ladies and I were up to? I told him flat out that the two ladies were strippers, that the man he had pulled over was the jon who hired them, and that I was circling because I figured the jon would not have appreciated me pulling up with two escorts! At this the cop burst out laughing, and stated that no, he probably would *not* have appreciated that, and that he probably would have asked to search his car at that point! The officer chuckled a bit more and told me to have a good night.

That's generally how most police I ran into were driving for the agency.
:D

[Balderdash]

3. k&r

:kick:

[Bluebear]

4. After all, the whole massacre happened because Cho wasn't "getting any".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x735304

[jpgray]

5. Headline "Disturbed Shooter Acts Disturbingly"

:eyes: The obscene fascination with killers in the media at times goes beyond the point of providing useful information.

[JVS]

37. I don't see this as a disturbing story.

weirdo hires what he (and others) would guess is a prostitute

[Nikki Stone1]

43. Actually, hiring a dancer, stripper or call girl is not a prelude to a killing rampage

Otherwise, we'd have major shootings like this around the clock.

I put this article up to prove my point that the cops and the media are trying to make a sex case out of it. They can't find a "domestic" link with Emily (the first victim) so they are desperately trying to find the woman they can blame for this crime. Enter dancer/prostitute/ whatever she is.

These cops seemed to have watched too many cheap detective movies. Cherchez la femme is sooooo 19th century.

[JVS]

54. it certainly isn't a prelude to a killing rampage

As to whether the cops are trying to find a woman to blame, I'm not so sure. I doubt people would consider it the dancer's fault.

In fact, I don't think this info is given to us by the cops so much as the media. The cops are just checking up on stuff, the media decides what we see. I remember that after the 9/11 attacks, there was talk about the hijackers visiting stripclubs and bars. Maybe its part of just piling more crap onto the criminal.

[kurth]

7. Cho had an imaginary supermodel girlfriend from outer space named Jelly

They're together now.

[slowry]

15. That two-timing whore...

(sorry, pretty dark :scared:)

[RB TexLa]

8. A guy who didn't talk to people. There'll probably be 30 or so escorts come forward with

such claims. Who's going to say they are lying?

[LisaL]

9. Read the article. She was tracked down by the FBI, because of

credit card receipts.

[Marie26]

11. Where did he get all this money? nt

[LisaL]

12. How would I know?

[Marie26]

16. I'm wondering out loud

He went on shopping sprees at Walmart, Home Depot, etc., bought expensive semi-automatic weapons, all in about one month. It's just odd - where would a college student find that much money? If the parents gave him a credit card, that seems a bit unwise.

[LisaL]

18. He planned this in advance. He might have been putting

all these charges on his credit card knowing he will never have to pay them.
As for parents giving him a credit card, he was an adult and in college. His parents did not have to give him any credit cards, he could have signed up for it on his own.

[marshall]

53. College students get credit cards like candy

And they look on it not as money that must be paid back but as money in the bank. An alarming number of students are graduating with massive credit card debt and an insatiable appetite for spending.

[hughee99]

17. I don't think he was planning on paying off his credit cards. n/t

[Canuckistanian]

28. Who said he had paid the CC bill?

He was probably running up a huge debt, knowing that he wouldn't have to pay for it.

When you're dead, the collection agencies generally stop calling.

[DarkTirade]

41. You've obviously never dealt with the same collections agencies I have.

[RB TexLa]

19. And others will see her getting news coverage and they will then come foward

with their claims.

[Bicoastal]

10. Ugh, I can't stand this line of thinking.

I'm a young man who's terrible with women, but I'm not going to become a mass murderer because of a few rejections.

It's typical: the media is discovering that disturbed psychopaths don't sell advertising, so they're focusing on the "sexier" aspects of the story. And the fact that people are trying to pretend there IS a sexy aspect of this story is too loathesome for words.

Cho's unhappy love life was, I'm certain, irrelevant to his madness. But it sure is "romantic," isn't it? :puke:

[PDJane]

13. Sigh.

I'm not getting laid, either. So what? Does that mean I'm going to head to the local park and start shooting the soccer players?

Honestly, people.

[Maru Kitteh]

23. I don't think that's the point. I think the pattern of behavior towards women

is the point. Objectification. Stalking. Aggressive. Hostile.

For some reason he felt comfortable displaying aggressive and hostile behavior towards women, but not men.

Until he killed them.

What does that say about him and/or our society? I think we're still sorting that out.

Why did the media repeatedly say that at first it was believed the the firt two killings were only a "domestic incident"?

[AZBlue]

25. But what about the thousands and thousands of other guys who pay escorts and strippers?

I don't think this is really relevant to the shooting - seems more like salacious gossip to me.

[Colobo]

27. Exactly. Great point.

[Bicoastal]

30. I don't follow...

Are you trying to say that our misogynist society is partly to blame for the Virginia Tech bloodbath? No one condones stalking. He was agressive with girls only because he thought he could bully them without fear of physical harm, but it was this agression that got him kicked out of classes and nearly committed to an assylum.

Cho was hostile to EVERYONE, and his issues clearly ran much deeper than so-called "girl problems." He blamed everyone for who he was--the rich, the free-spirited, the Christian, the Muslim, George Bush, Kim Jong-Il....he wasn't listening to the media as much as he was listening to his own voices.

However, I would agree that in the aftermath of this tragedy, many in the media are looking for women to pin the blame on.

[flyarm]

14. AHHH THIS SAYS SHE WAS CONTACTED BY FBI BECAUSE OF A RECIEPT..

DOESN'T SOUND LIKE SHE CAME FORWARD..IT SOUNDS LIKE SHE WAS "FOUND" BY FBI..

FLY

[Nikki Stone1]

50. Yep. In the event of my murder, the FBI would be investigating Amazon.com

I live such a boring life. :)

[npincus]

21. the escort's pic:

[Lex]

22. .

:spray:

[Colobo]

24. Lesson: When hiring an escort, pay in cash.

[LisaL]

26. He likely knew he was never going to pay those charges.

[ObamaNationYes]

32. Several Points

1 - Yes she was questioned because the investigators are following the credit card trail (and the media is trailing the investigators). She didn't just come out with her story to bring attention to herself. (And I am not accusing the OP of suggesting that she was).

2 - One of Cho's rants was towards rich kids. With a credit card to buy $1000 worth of guns and ammmo, rent a vehicle for a month, pay for an escort and on and on and on... to my son who is a college student, Cho was "rich". My son does not have those kids of resources.

3 - I know this is sort of in bad taste, so I apologize if anyone is offended but I can't resist calling this chapter of the saga "CHO'S HO". Where is Imus when I actually need him?

[LisaL]

34. Credit. As he planned all of this he would know the bill

would not have to be paid. It does not mean he had resources.

[Ignacio Upton]

61. I'm not rich, and I have about $2,700 in the bank

Reason: I usually save up my money that I make during the summer, and I'm a frugal spender during the school year (except for food, some clothes, and other things like DVDs.) If Cho wasn't normally spending very much and worked during the summer, he could have saved up the money.

[GeorgeGist]

33. I always wash after 'dancing'

:rofl:

[LisaL]

35. Or in this case, after watching someone dancing.

[Colobo]

38. Having been to strip clubs several times

Keep in mind that many dancers allow and or encourage the client, when giving a lap dance, to grab her breasts, touch her all over (usually the only exception is the...) and sometimes they even allow you to kiss/lick her breasts.

For that reason, once they are done with you, they go backstage and they usually clean themselves with rubbing alcohol or soap and water.

[jobycom]

40. He washed, not her. nt

[trof]

36. "a white woman with blond hair" OMG! A WHITE woman!

WITH BLOND HAIR!
In the company of some kind of chink?!
The horror.

[Nikki Stone1]

42. The horror was that Cho was a killer, but thanks for playing :)

:)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

44. They did feel compelled to point that out, didn't they? Racism? Naaah.

They would have done the same if Cho was a white guy, wouldn't they?

[Nikki Stone1]

45. Since Eric Harris didn't pay for a dancer, I suppose we won't know the answer to that question

If you are angry about it, you can write to ABC. That is, if they will give a damn. They've really gone down the tubes since the 9/11 fiction they produced.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

46. I find the "hired a female escort" just as irrelevent.

He probably had breakfast, brushed his teeth, listened to the radio, and took a leak.

But, being a cynic, I'm fully aware that the media knows that "white female escort" sells a lot more beer and toothpaste than "man who killed students emptied his bladder before killings".

[Nikki Stone1]

48. I agree. See my post #47 (upthread)

I think this case is about an autistic kid that wasn't able to get treatment because the American medical system is so fucked up.

[Bentcorner]

55. Having breakfest, brushing our teeth, taking a leak

are things we all do every morning. Hiring a hooker, not so much.

[Hunter_1253]

63. If it was autism...

such as Asperger's syndrome, then honestly Cho might not have been a bully or pushy towards women. I'm not saying his behavior was charming, gentlemanly, or even within social norms. To sum up Asperger's syndrome, or similar behavioral issues linked as autistic, one could say he was born with shit for social skills. People who have these symptoms basically do not have the inherent social skills most of us "norms" take for granted. As children this is pretty easy to spot, and in adulthood the disparity is even more distinct. If this is the type of autism Cho suffered from and it was left ignored, untreated, or even misdiagnosed it could explain most of the signs in his behavior that people pegged as odd. Mix into that a 23 year old man with the physical urges we all feel and inability to do anything about them considered even remotely socially normal, and you just get a mess of personal problems.

It's not to say everyone with ASP is going to become a raging lunatic gunman, but if ignored and untreated the potential is there. This is a serious condition that can be treated by teaching people the social skills and coping methods needed to live normally.

The biggest problem is unlike Down's Syndrome, which has some fairly easy to spot physical signs as well as the mental and social issues, ASP suffers have no outward physical signs. This often times leaves it untreated or misdiagnosed as ADHD or just a rammy kid. There's a big difference between ramped up kid and a child who doesn't like to be hugged because it's to much sensation, shuts down completely in stressful situations, and can't function in simple social settings to the point of breakdown.

I honestly feel sorry for Cho, because he did not get the care he needed and deserved because mental health is still looked at as pseudo science mumbo jumbo in this country. I feel bad for the other kids at VT who suffered through this, because we as Americans failed them all by failing Cho. Our village put all of them at risk due to our own misunderstandings.