On Thom Hartmann regarding Haiti.

[Cleita]

In the first half hour he had a guest on who explained what has happened to Haiti and why Aristide was run out of it. There are practically no building codes although I admit a 7 earthquake lasting a minute would be very destructive even in places like California who have strict codes. People living up in shacks on the hills were brought in from the country as cheap labor with repealing excise taxes that made their agricultural products of rice, sugar cane and coffee unprofitable. Aristide was trying to change this and our Republican administrations made sure he was gotten rid on account of it. Then Thom made the statement that Haiti was the Libertarian paradise of Milton Friedman economists. These are the same economists that seem to be running our country as well. He's still talking about Haiti so tune in if you want an instant education on this.

[Cleita]

1. And already I get an unrecommend.

:hi: there unrecommender. I guess you prefer ignorance in these matters.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

3. I rec'd it for ya to counter the unrec

Love listening to Thom.

[Peregrine Took]

8. Me, too.

[villager]

4. there are the "shadow folk" on DU now, who live to unrec

hard to fathom what their real agenda is...

Or maybe it's not, and I just don't want to fathom it! ;-)

[change_notfinetuning]

11. To put it bluntly, people who are undemocratic and un-Democratic party. To

say they are disruptive would be an understatement.

[Raster]

21. Generally their "real agenda" is to make DU more centrist, more moderate, more DLC.

[defendandprotect]

29. You post is truth which endangers the DLC-corporate mentality here --

[abelenkpe]

6. There's a shadow

Libertarian twit who goes around un-reccing anything that points out how devastating stupid libertarian policies are.

[Raster]

22. Libertarian = rethuglican that smokes weed

[pundaint]

39. Libertarian have a good deal more in common with Progressives than do Republicans

Fox News and the teabaggers own the concession on using labels to reject ideas. We need to build bigger numbers to get our way. Libertarians could be our allies against a good deal of corporate abuse, theocracy, military adventurism, and privacy issues.

[lunasun]

27. Thank You

Cleita for video and discussion. Yes a friend in need is a friend indeed ......nice of the sweatshops to throw ya under the bus after a building has fallen on it and not rebuild too! Just too costly for that bottom line$$

[Sebastian Doyle]

2. He also mentioned that Haiti used to export a lot of that sugar to the US

Which of course no longer happened after ADM and MonSatan got their mutant corn poison to replace real sugar in the food supply.

Therefore, it's only fair that we seize the assets of MonSatan and ADM and use the money for Haitian relief.

[defendandprotect]

30. Agree ---

[rucognizant]

40. Yes

That's a plan I can endorse! K & R

[WonderGrunion]

41. Cheap Haitian sugar would be a boon to ethanol production too.

It's big food and big oil that want sugar imports curtailed to the USA.

[Gold Metal Flake]

5. First guest was Brian Concannon

First guest was Brian Concannon of the Institute For Justice & Democracy in Haiti.


http://www.ijdh.org/

[EFerrari]

7. The first time Aristide was ousted, it was by a CIA backed coup.

Clinton brought him back because the people were about to break out into a fullscale rebellion. So, no, it wasn't just the Republicans.

Does your machine do video, Cleita? This is an excellent recounting of the story by someone who was involved intimately in it:

Randall Robinson talks about the history of Haiti and the Haitian people from the arrival of Columbus in late 1492 to the ouster of President Aristide in 2004. Mr. Robinson spoke at Hue-Man Bookstore in Harlem.

http://www.booktv.org/Watch/8620/An+Unbroken+Agony+Haiti+From+Revolution+to+the+Kidnapping+of+a+President.aspx

It's possible that if one goes to the CSPAN archives and googles the book title "An Unbroken Agony", that there is a transcript. And, yep -- there is one!

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/200332-1&start=-20

[Cleita]

17. Yes, I can do video.

Thanks Beth. I will look at these.

[EFerrari]

19. It's the same one. The second link is for DUers who

would rather read or who need a transcript. :hi:

[KoKo]

43. Excellent Link....can't wait to watch later...transcript too is good.

:hi:

[KoKo]

44. Good Links here on thread, too. K&R

[defendandprotect]

31. Thank you for your additional info -- GREAT OP .... follow up tomorrow -- kick

[defendandprotect]

32. Love Randall Robinson . . . "The Debt" should be made into a movie . . .

[Democrats_win]

9. Haiti is like many third world countries: U.S. wiped out their agriculture.

Free trade: What a concept. People, who were in poverty still always had something to eat. Then after the U.S. "helped" them, they didn't even have any food.

It really is a shame that we allowed the greed of Wall Street to do this. It's not too late, we could at least put the Wall Street crooks in jail. They deserve much more. If there was really justice, we would set up a guillotine and send them all to the grave.

[defendandprotect]

33. dupe --

-- didn't they go in at one point and kill all the livestock --

in the wars they burned their crops which deeply shocked the native American!

Still stealing their natural resources with crooked contracts -- etal --

Presume someone here with better knowledge of US government vs native American

could give a more complete and authentic telling of what the similarities might be?

[defendandprotect]

34. Similarities to what US government has done to Native Americans

-- didn't they go in at one point and kill all the livestock --

in the wars they burned their crops which deeply shocked the native American!

Still stealing their natural resources with crooked contracts -- etal --

Presume someone here with better knowledge of US government vs native American

could give a more complete and authentic telling of what the similarities might be?

[bongobobtherealone]

45. Yes

We have a proud heritage. That's what the great Buffalo slaughter was all about. Native Americans used every part of the Buffalo for something. They even used the scrotum as a pouch to keep stuff in. Of course, Native Americans used every part of anything. They weren't wasteful like us. The slaughter of nearly all Buffalo was one way of depriving N.A.s of a major source of food, clothing, pouches, etc. A proud heritage indeed~

[defendandprotect]

46. Yes, of course -- but what I was really thinking of was the later attacks by US governement

vs native Americans on reservations providing an economic base for themselves with

livestock -- was it sheep? Anyway, US government went in and killed all the livestock!

[gateley]

10. Thanks for the reminder to tune in -- I always get an education when I listen to him. nt

[havbrush]

26. Third world agriculture

Haiti is the victim of American and European agricultural subsidies. We subsidize the giant agricultural producers on cotton, sugar, corn, rice, etc. Government money goes to them as they produce much more than they can sell domestically so they turn around and sell it on the open commodities markets at a much lower price than what farmers in Mexico, Haiti, and many African, South American and Asian third world countries can. These agri-giants surprisingly, don't produce all this bounty at a lower cost per acre than many of the third world countries do what with their giant combines and fuel bills, but they can undercut prices because after they get their subsidies(some call it corporate welfare), they can sell at very low prices and still be very profitable. Europe does much the same thing for their sugar farmer. And get this, Mexico's farmers no longer produce much of the corn used in the tortillas eaten in that country everyday. We've flooded their market with surplus corn. And that directly affects us as those farmers have had to leave the land and left with no outlook for employment, many have crossed our border. In other words, do the math. The subsidies have actual increased the numbers of undocumented people coming here. Africa produces some of the finest quality cotton but their farmers can't compete against the cheap cotton dumped on the comodities markets. Then you hear the refrain from many who say, "Oh those countries are so helpless, so backwards, why don't they produce something instead of begging from the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund." (those two organizations are a whole other story as some say they are in cahoots with the subsidizers and the subsidized to keep these countries in debt and non-competitive.

[AuntPatsy]

12. K & R for the truth to come out...

[arthritisR_US]

15. ditto! n/t

[Cleita]

13. Thom Hartmann. If someone on your staff is reading this, please put

up the video of your first part of the show on Haiti so all DUers can get educated.Thanking you in advance.

[upi402]

14. Haiti; A conservative's wet dream.

our very own Saipan.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. THat was to a point disaster capitalism

and this quake actually is an opportunity to move away from it.

A Marshall plan (or something like that) run by Governments not private contractors, would work to rebuid the country.

Oh and a deep 7.0 with strict codes will do a LOT LESS damage. Hell as I pointed out yesterday in another thread, personally if I have to go through one, I'd rather do that at home in Mexico City than in Cali. After all I went though several while growing up... one all the way to 7.5. It took an 8.1 and a minute and a half to do the nasty that it did. (And when you look at it from the POV of percentage of infrastructure and population it destroyed less than 1% of it)

[Liberal In Texas]

18. It's unfortunate that it took this disaster to make us aware of it. n/t

[inna]

20. KR. Please check this thread as well for historical background:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7465353


I think it's pretty stunning, I'm just learning all this...

[Political_Junkie]

24. What's really stunning

is the reaction to that op. "America bashing", well if the shoe fits!

[jotsy]

42. How will we as a citizenry ever be okay with the rest of the world after what has been done to it in

the name of profit, and mostly by entities that view US as home. I was listening to Thom briefly yesterday and remember wondering if Haiti has three quarters of the world's sugar supply, how is it that they are in such a destitute state. Should have known the Monsanto mind set and sociopathic corporate model were in play, but to know that goes back 200 years!?

Thanks for shedding some light.

[bobbolink]

23. It was also pointed out that the farmers were driven out of business by

"aid" that provided free food that the farmers could then not sell.

The US is quite adept at hurting poor folk.

[defendandprotect]

35. hmmm..... hadn't heard that one before . .. terrible . . .

[Cleita]

25. Videos put up by Thom Hartmann on Haitian history.

About the undermining of the Aristide government with our help.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=385&topic_id=423193

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=385&topic_id=423197

[Solly Mack]

28. k/r

[Douglas Carpenter]

36. be sure and watch his interview with Max Blumenthal regarding Haiti

link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x423193


.

[Mithreal]

37. Love that man. Immense contributions he made today.

[Mojorabbit]

38. marking to read in the am. nt