Nuclear reactor shutdown in NYC suburb

[ensho]

http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=115959§ionid=3510203


One of the two active power reactors at a nuclear plant in New York state has been shut down due to an unexpected malfunction in its main electrical generator.

The nuclear power reactor, Indian Point 2, went offline automatically at 4 p.m. Monday after the malfunction was spotted, Ria Novosti reported.

According to the report, the nuclear plant owner, Entergy, says engineers are trying to find the exact cause of the malfunction, adding that the plant had operated for 66 days since another shutdown in November 2009.

They offered assurances that a second reactor at the plant continues working.

-snip-

On April 23, 2007, the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission fined the owner of the Indian Point nuclear plant $130,000 for failing to meet a deadline for a new emergency siren plan. The 150 sirens at the plant are meant to alert residents within 10 miles of the plant of an emergency.

On December 1, 2007 a number of New York officials made clear during a press conference the the opposition was united on all levels of government to the re-licensing of the Indian Point nuclear power plants.
---------------------------

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

1. Indian Point is 15 minutes from me and the "evacuation" plan here, from what I can

ascertain is a disaster in waiting. They feel that they can placate residents by having emergency bus stops.

There is one main parkway and one main route to handle a local population in the 100,000s. The school district's plan is to bus the kids to a main area, down county from here, which would bring them into massive chaos as the population is more concentrated there. I told both my kids (who are now graduated), if this ever happened, not to get on the buses and wait for me so we could evacuate north. Oh, and yes, the schools asked for written permission to dispense potassium iodate pills.

Just had to get this off my chest. Meanwhile, one of my son's best friends has interned at Indian Point, and I'll ask him what's up with the plant shutting down.

BTW.... the planes that hit the WTC passed over Indian Point.

Great documentary by Rory Kennedy (with RFK Jr.), Indian Point: Imagining The Unimaginable was presented on HBO... a must see.
http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/indianpoint/index.html

[lapislzi]

2. "Plan." Yeah, right. And I'm a rocket scientist.

My ex, daughter, and I have a rendezvous plan: use pay phones to rendezvous with out of state third party. Daughter, pets, and emergency supplies will be collected as quickly as possible and we meet up in Binghamton, checking in hourly with the third party.

North and west. Away from the drifting cloud.

I share this with you because I know you live near me, Ommm.

That place gives me the creeps in the worst way.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

5. I am so glad that you have a plan lapisizi. My plan is to travel due north and go toward the Glen

Falls area. My younger son still lives here and so does my ex. My older son will be at Purchase, 40 minutes away. Unfortunately it's south of here and will have to discuss this with him. He doesn't have a car.

Excellent idea about contacting a third out of state party.

And you're right about how creepy this is, and every day, those bus stops are a constant reminder.

:hi: neighbor!

[crosshairs]

7. Potassium Iodide vs Potassium Iodate

Lordy! Nobody in the U.S. has ever handed out potassium iodate pills. Only potassium iodide.

Iodate is illegal for radiation exposure. Potassium IODIDE is the only drug FDA approved.

I recommended going here to check out the only safe brands of potassium iodide. http://www.nukepills.com/">Potassium Iodide

Also see this info from Nukepills.com : http://www.nukepills.com/potassium-iodate-vs-potassium-iodide.html/">Potassium Iodide vs Potassium Iodate

[NightWatcher]

15. "emergency bus stops" or place to conveniently pile up the dead bodies?

stay safe, keep the gas in your car near full, and keep a fully packed B.O.B (bug out bag) in the trunk

[Liberation Angel]

3. Calcium and Potassium iodide (milk, cheese, kelp, oj, tuna, sardines, anchovies)

Two of the worst radiation exposures from operating emssions, effluents and occasional unplanned leaks or releases of radionuclides are strontium 90 and radioiodine.

Both of these wil be absorbed into the blood and then into the tissues and bones and/or organs as if they were calcium and iodine (which we need in our diet).

IF you have sufficient calcium and iodine in your system already much of the radioactive iodine and strontium will not be as likely to absorb into the tissues (via air, water, milk, food etc) and you will be more protected (provided your original source of iodine and calcium is not from a nuclear downwind or downstream source.

Strontium 90 is regularly released in effluents and airborn particulate emissions from operating comercial nuke plants while rdioiodine is usually ony released by an "incident" or by accident. Bt these can occur anytime .

So it is always better to have a healthy diet of clan calcium and iodine sourced food (small fish like sardines, mackerel and anchovies have the fewest toxins and are a good source usually or at least better than big fish)

And dairy or carots OJ - stuff high in calcium.

That way even if you are exposed you will have some protection (especially with the clusterf*ck that would occur on the interstate if there WERE a serious release/accident/incident/meltdown.

Unfortunately Indian Point and many other nuke plants spew radionuclides regualrly as part of their operations so if you live downwind, downstream or on a body of water where the effluents drift (Long Island Sound or the Hudson) you are already heavily exposed to the mutagenic/carcinogenic radionuclides.

Fotunatelt good antioxident foods and healthy diet can counteract or remediate the cancer causing effects (blueberries, dark green foods, broccoli, cauliflower, brussels sprouts etc) for those who are downwinders.

I worked in the industry briefly with the environmental medicine doctors and learned that you CAN protect yourself if you are armed with knowledge.

There is LOTS of info on Indian Point and other reactors and their problems and solutions at www.radiation.org.

Forewarned is forearmed against devastating catastrophes and you CAN protect yourself and loved ones to some extent if you have these provisions on hand and eat them regularly..

Cheers

[rgbecker]

4. Move along, nothing to see here.....Isn't Nuclear Power a "green" energy source?

Scott Brown, republican candidate in Massachusetts is a big supporter of nuclear power, wonders why there hasn't been a new plant in decades? Too young to remember 3 mile island? (Also thinks waterboarding isn't torture).

[Liberation Angel]

6. Obama may put Nuclear power in play in the energy bill

That is why those of us who know and care need to stay on top of this: Nuclear is TOXIC ...

NOT GREEN

and kils children and other living things

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

8. How is it possible that anyone in France is still alive?

[OI812]

16. Those eevul radiations turned 'em all into frogs.

:eyes:
:rofl:

[Caretha]

76. Google

the French nuclear power plants and how they have been implemented, their engineering and safeguards and you will have a better idea of how it can be done safely, and better in the future.

Please quit showing your ass...it is getting embarrassing.

[OI812]

17. I hope he pushes for it, it is far less toxic than hydrocarbon burning.

Lots of uneducated people don't understand that.

[Pavulon]

19. Cite one death in the US, by name.

feel free to produce a death certificate.

[Tesha]

30. Depending on what nuclear reactors you're including, you might consider these three gentlemen:

o SP. 5.C. JOHN A BYRNES, 24, Utica, N.Y.
o SP. 4.C. RICHARD L. McKINLEY, 22, Canton, Ohio, both U.S. Army personnel.
o Construction Engineer 1.C. RICHARD C. LEGG, 26, Roscommon, Mich., a Navy man.

They all died at Idaho Falls when that reactor lost control.

http://www3.gendisasters.com/utah/13374/idaho-falls-id-atomic-reactor-accident-jan-1961

You might also rate Louis Slotin, who died in a criticality accident
related to the Manhattan Project.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Slotin

Several other folks are also listed here, some of whom were not involved in
nuclear weapons programs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticality_accident

> Since 1945 there have been at least 21 deaths from criticality accidents; 7 in the
> United States, 10 in the Soviet Union, 2 in Japan, 1 in Argentina, and 1 in Yugoslavia.
> 9 have been due to process accidents, with the remaining from research reactor
> accidents.

Tesha

[Pavulon]

31. "civilian" reactors was on my post. Military reactors operate for different reasons

and under different regs. Not one dead civilian.

[Tesha]

32. Actually, yes, dead civilians.

What I think you meant was no one dead who is not connected
to the industry.

That may or may not be true, but at least it's a reasonable
contention to assert, whereas industry-connected civilians
have clearly died.

Tesha

[Pavulon]

33. I am referring to criticality or other exposure events at us civilian reactors

not standard industrial accidents (electrocutions, crush or fall accidents). My point was that everyone has some story of a person who was killed by nuclear power from TMI or whatever and there is no evidence to support that.

[Tesha]

34. And, essentially, I agree with you. (NT)

[Liberation Angel]

56. Don't agree with him/her. See "Deaths at TMI" (links)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7454666&mesg_id=7467404

[Pavulon]

70. No names, no certificates, just propaganda from an agenda

site. CDC, NRC, no university backed study shows deaths. Including the penn state 20 year study.

[onethatcares]

13. I remember TMI

my sister in law lost her daughter after that one.(stillborn) I think the government bought their house.

[Pavulon]

18. TMI caused no deaths.

there is not a single death certificate in the US associated with civil nuclear power production radiation.

[Liberation Angel]

50. not true

your terms are vague but death by radiation is not listd on dath certificates generally.

They would be determined by a doctor or pathologist or medical examiner IF they were even reported.

Most people who die from radiation exposure either die from cncer or die in the womb or in early childhod (infant deats soar near nuclear plants)

So your perspective is disingnuous at best and ignorant as well.

The problem is that when someone has a spontaneous abortion, a miscarriage, a stilborn child (as reported upthread by a DUer whose family experienced it) it is VERY difficult to PROVE exactly what caused the birth defect or the death or the genetic mutation.

Epidemiological studies produced by the Radiation and Public Health Project and published in peer reviewed scientific journals establish a pattern of death and cancer and miscarriages and birth defects in people who are exposed to commercial radiation emitted into the air and water at comercial nuclear power plants in the US.

These exposures cause death in huge numbers.
The death certificates do NOT list radiation as the cause of the mutation or cancer or endocrine system disruption or immune system decay that caused the death, but epidemiologically the evidence establishes these associations.

Quit bullshitting people with facile arguments.

Finally, there is plenty of case law on a number of deaths caused by radiation in the commercial field. If you include military/scientific nuclear deaths there are many more.

So you inferring that no deaths caused by nuke plants or operations can be proved or is recorded anywhere is flatly wrong. There are peer reviewed studies which establish it AND there are accidents and incidents (see upthread for a few) where people died from outright exposure at their jobs or in the military.

I would not bother to respond to most of your proindustry baloney but unfortunately so many folks here are misinformed and disinformed that I feel it is important for folks not to buy into deadly crap which supports the nuclear industry line of propaganda.

Like the cigaret industry, the claim that when you die of lung cancer you (or your family) can't PROVE it was cigarets you smoked in part because of lies by the industry about its safety and addictiveness, the LIE that nukes do not cause radiation-induced cancer, infant death, mutations of foetuses in utero, death by bone marrow or breast or leukemia or prostate or brain or uterine or ovarian cancers (ALL KNOWN TO BE CAUSED BY RADIATION EXPOSURE BTW) - or that living downwind or downstream from a nuclear plant which releases radiation routinely into your air, water, and foodstuffs grown in the path of its radionuclide plume - it is ALL just that: a heinous lie.

Nuclear emissions mutate babies in utero. They cause many many infant deaths, spontaneous abortions and other deaths from cancer and other diseases all known to be caused by radiation exposure (there is NO safe level of exposure from man made radionuclides like Stontium 90 and radioiodine which are produced in nuke plants and released either regularly or accidentally into the environment as at Chernobyl or TMI)

[LSK]

9. main electrical generator - thats a seperate system

The uranium bundle acts as an extremely high-energy source of heat. It heats the water and turns it to steam. The steam drives a turbine, which spins a generator to produce power. Humans have been harnessing the expansion of water into steam for hundreds of years. To learn more about the properties involved, read How Steam Technology Works.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/nuclear-power3.htm

Nothing wrong with the nuclear reactor, the problem is down the line.

[davepc]

10. I was born and raised in Peekskill and I'm glad I didnt have to breath toxic coal soot

Thanks to the clean power produced at Indian Point.

[sabbat hunter]

11. I would much rather

live next to a nuclear power plant than a coal, oil or gas fired plant.

Nuclear power is very safe. For all the talk about 3 Mile Island, no one died or even got sick from the accident there.

and please do not bring chernobyl in to the mix. That plant was an unsafe design, had no containment vessel. It was a disaster waiting to happen.

Look at Japan, France and see how they use nuclear power and how safe it is.

[mitchtv]

12. unfortunately the waste problem has not

been solved to the satisfaction of many.

[Confusious]

25. There are new ways to take care of that waste

http://www.utexas.edu/news/2009/01/27/nuclear_hybrid/

[Tesha]

21. As long as somebody else lives next to (or downstream) of the waste dump, ehh?

It isn't the reactors that are the problem; it's the rest of the nuclear
fuel cycle including:

o Mining and tailings disposal
o Waste produced during enrichment
o Proliferation risks
o Waste produced after the fuel is "burned" in the reactors.

Tesha

[Pavulon]

23. That is what nevada is for. We already nuked them (for real)

breeder reactor technology would be nice. as for proliferation we have all the nukes we need. More plutonium is not an issue.

[Alias Dictus Tyrant]

62. The argument against breeder reactors is stupid

I *really* don't understand the reactionaries that argue against breeder reactors. It is the height of ignorance to argue that this would augment the proliferation, given that a considerable portion of the nuclear fuel we are burning now is literally dismantled warheads. If we really wanted to build more warheads, everyone wouldn't be burning them.

How could anyone rationally argue that breeders would cause us to build more warheads if we are burning the warheads we have?

[sabbat hunter]

24. answers

1) with care that is not a problem
2) if reprocessing is used (And it should be) there is very little waste created during enrichment
3) in a country like the US, proliferation is almost nil
4) via reprocessing that waste is turned back in to additional fuel, along with a variety of medical purposes.

[Tesha]

27. Care to discuss the relative proportions of radionuclides that are in the spent fuel?

> 4) via reprocessing that waste is turned back in to additional fuel, along with a variety of medical purposes

Care to discuss the relative proportions of radionuclides that are in the spent fuel?
I think you'll find that a rather large percentage of the waste products *AREN'T*
re-usable as fuel and constitute nothing but very-high-level radioactive waste
that must be stored for centuries.

What, exactly, do you think all those leaky tanks at Hanford are filled with?

Tesha

[sabbat hunter]

35. they are filled

because we are NOT reprocessing our spent fuel

http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf69.html

[Tesha]

37. You missed my point.

Spent fuel *ISN'T* just unburned U-235, inert U-238, and transmute
Plutonium-239.

It's also chock-full of lighter radionuclides (the actual fission products from
the U-235 fissioning). While a few of these radionuclides might have some
small-scale industrial or medical use, the vast majority of their mass repre-
sents nothing but very hazardous nuclear waste. Today, there's nothing
productive that can be done with it and no safe storage system is yet
on-line, so it mostly sits around in a variety of physical forms waiting
for us to figure out what to do with it.

*THAT* is the nuclear waste problem and it won't be solved by
"reprocessing" anything. That is also what the Hanford tanks are
slowly leaking into the Colombia River.

Tesha

[sabbat hunter]

41. the great majority of nuclear waste

is not those lighter radionuclides.

Reprocessing can solve that problem, by isolating those radionuclides which is a small part of the waste, re-using the rest. Additionally we can develop uses for them via research and development.

[Tesha]

46. I think you're thinking about this in quite naive way.

> the great majority of nuclear waste is not those lighter radionuclides.

Of course not; it's mostly U-238 and the zirconium fuel rod cladding.
But cladding aside, the spent fuel is thoroughly mixed with those light
radionuclides making it a difficult and economically-infeasible problem
to separate this devil's mixture. Why do you think all those fuel rods
are sitting in all those spent-fuel pools or are "dry-casked" at reactors
nationwide?

> Reprocessing can solve that problem, by isolating those radionuclides
> which is a small part of the waste, re-using the rest. Additionally we can develop uses for them via research and development.

Do you honestly believe there's a market to absorb *ALL* those different
isotopes? If so, please explain it to me: which ones go where and in what
quantities?

Tesha

[sabbat hunter]

49. markets can be developed

we need to invest in R&D to find ways to use the waste.

Those fuel rods are sitting dry casked because we currently are not reprocessing our fuel rods. It is actually NOT difficult and economically infeasible. It is only fear that is stopping it.

[Tesha]

53. Why?

> we need to invest in R&D to find ways to use the waste.

Why?

We can take those same R&D dollars and invest them better.

Tesha

[Confusious]

26. there are new ways to take care of the waste

http://www.utexas.edu/news/2009/01/27/nuclear_hybrid/

[mitchtv]

36. including transportation

all through the rails and highways

[madokie]

40. Sure that was an unsafe design so you say now

No Chernobyl is and was something to never forget to be used as what can be. It's still a vast wasteland other than a few hanger ons and short lifespan birds and a few larger animals other than that it won't be inhabited by humans for a long long time if ever again.

[sabbat hunter]

42. chernobyl

was not safe even when it was built. The very fact that there was no containment vessel shows that.

[OI812]

14. Is an unexpected malfunction worse than an expected one?

It sounds like something went awry with the generator (alternator) which could happen in any power plant that runs turbines on steam. I think every one except hydroelectric works that way. :shrug:

[SidDithers]

20. Unrec for uninformed scaremongering...nt

Sid

[Liberation Angel]

54. unrec your unrec

and raise you one


for pro nuke industry unreccing

[SidDithers]

59. Ain't democracy grand...nt

Sid

[ThomWV]

22. If a generator failed it does't make a hoot in hell that the plant was nuclear

Its meaningless other than you can shut down a nuclear plant a lot faster than you can shut down a coal fired plant.

[Tesha]

28. Thom, it actually does matter with some reactor designs but not with US designs.

Contrary to popular belief, fission reactors can't ramp from full
power to zero power instantaneously because not all of the heat
is being derived from the U-235 fissioning; once the fuel has been
"burned" for a while, the fuel rods are full of decay products and
many of these will continue to decay further even if the control
rods are "scrammed" into the core, thereby stopping the U-235
fission reaction.

The reactor has to have a way to dissipate all that produced heat,
even if you can no longer use it to boil water to spin the turbine.
At that point, the steam void constant can become important.
In American-design, water-moderated reactors, that constant
is negative and the formation of steam slows the nuclear reaction
further. But in graphite-moderated designs (like the infamous
Chernobyl "RBMK" reactors, that constant is positive and the
formation of steam accelerates the nuclear reaction, producing
a positive feedback loop that can can (and did) lead to loss of
control of the reactor.

Tesha

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

47. Since this was a US reactor why bring it up?

[madokie]

39. True that but nuke plants have the potential to cause a lot of havoc

the nuke industries track record is spotty at best and outright criminal at worst. I'm talking about their being less than honest with us citizens. The nuke plant that was close to me has been shut down for a long time now. Sometimes read about Karen Silkwood if you want an idea of the way the industry goes about it's business. The people who are the profit makers know full well one of these things can go boom in a big way. I'll take my chances with alternate energy providing us with out needs. We're wasting money and time on trying to polish the tainted image of the nuke pig. We stopped PSO from building a nuke plant in my back yard. Blackfox was the name it was given.

http://digital.library.okstate.edu/encyclopedia/entries/N/NU001.html

[sabbat hunter]

44. actually

the nuclear industry record is far better than most other industries.

[madokie]

51. I'm not so sure of that

point me to where a study has shown that to be true and I'll believe it. Otherwise I call bullshit. Not what the nrc says either as they have been bedfellows for a long long time with the nuke industry. An independent study that shows what you're saying is so.

[mdmc]

29. It happens all the time

on 9-11-01, the WTC planes flew right over Indian Point..

[Renew Deal]

38. How is it that this happens in NY and the only link you can find is from Iran?

And it's not just you. I don't get it.

[Xenotime]

43. This can't be good. I feel sorry for those living in that area.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

48. Nothing bad happened. The residents have nothing to worry about.

[upi402]

45. These sites are not defended yet

And pundits are touting building more of these, frisking granny at the airport instead of hardening ports and reactors. Idiots,cons, and crooks rule us... and we vote for them.

[Liberation Angel]

52. Good - Shut them ALL down. For ever. Mutations, Cancer, Miscarriages, endocrine/hormonal disruption

It is all bad.

Most people who die from radiation exposure either die from cancer or die in the womb or in early childhod (infant deats soar near nuclear plants where mothers breathe in, drink, or are otherwise exposed to radiation released from operating comercial reactors which mutate the babies inside them)



The problem is that when someone has a spontaneous abortion, a miscarriage, a stilborn child (as reported upthread by a DUer whose family experienced it) it is VERY difficult to PROVE exactly what caused the birth defect or the death or the genetic mutation.

Epidemiological studies produced by the Radiation and Public Health Project and published in peer reviewed scientific journals establish a pattern of death and cancer and miscarriages and birth defects in people who are exposed to commercial radiation emitted into the air and water at comercial nuclear power plants in the US.

These exposures cause death in huge numbers.
The death certificates do NOT list radiation as the cause of the mutation or cancer or endocrine system disruption or immune system decay that caused the death, but epidemiologically the evidence establishes these associations.

Nuclear energy proponents should quit bullshitting people with facile arguments.

Finally, there is plenty of case law on a number of deaths caused by radiation in the commercial field. If you include military/scientific nuclear deaths there are many more.

So the inference that no deaths caused by nuke plants or operations can be proved or is recorded anywhere is flatly wrong. There are peer reviewed studies which establish it AND there are accidents and incidents (see upthread for a few) where people died from outright exposure at their jobs or in the military. See www.radiation.org for peer reviewed study links done by the Radiation and Public Health Project

I would not bother to respond to most of the proindustry baloney and outright lies and fabrications here at DU but unfortunately so many folks here are misinformed and disinformed that I feel it is important for folks not to buy into deadly crap which supports the nuclear industry line of propaganda.

Like the cigaret industry, the claim that when you die of lung cancer you (or your family) can't PROVE it was cigarets you smoked in part because of lies by the industry about its safety and addictiveness, the LIE that nukes do not cause radiation-induced cancer, infant death, mutations of foetuses in utero, death by bone marrow or breast or leukemia or prostate or brain or uterine or ovarian cancers (ALL KNOWN TO BE CAUSED BY RADIATION EXPOSURE BTW) - or that living downwind or downstream from a nuclear plant which releases radiation routinely into your air, water, and foodstuffs grown in the path of its radionuclide plume - it is ALL just that: a heinous lie. But the INDUSTRY claims "Oh - you can't prove it was MY radiation that caused YOUR ovarian Cancer - so get the fuck lost."

Nuclear emissions mutate babies in utero. They cause many many infant deaths, spontaneous abortions and other deaths from cancer and other diseases all known to be caused by radiation exposure (there is NO safe level of exposure from man made radionuclides like Stontium 90 and radioiodine which are produced in nuke plants and released either regularly or accidentally into the environment as at Chernobyl or TMI)

man made nuclear radio-nuclides (radioactive particles) in nuclear plant effluents and emissions accumulate in the ovaries, breasts, bones, blood, soft tissues and other organs and seep into the uterus and fetuses of pregnant women causing mutations, cancer, heart defects, thyroid disease and all sorts of immune system defects and problems, not to mention endocrine system dysfunction and hypothyroidism.

It is a death industry.

It is indefensible that we continue to expose our population to such deadly amounts of radiation on a huge scale that effects the entire planet, the ecosystem and all future gene pools which are mutated and altered forever.

[Liberation Angel]

55. There WERE deaths from Three Mile Island (link)

On the third day of the venting of these gases, half the population within 15 miles—144,000 people—fled the area. By this time the bulk of the accident's airborne radiation was already drifting on the wind. In addition, approximately 400,000 gallons of radioactive cooling water that had leaked from the reactor were secretly dumped into the Susquehanna River, a source of drinking water for nearby communities. Later about 2.3 million gallons of radioactively contaminated cooling water were allowed to be "evaporated" into the atmosphere.

In 1980 Pennsylvania State Health Department authorities reported a sharp rise in hypothyroidism in newborn infants in the three counties downwind from the reactor. Late in 1979, four times as many infants as normal were born with the disease. The NRC said the increase was unrelated to radiation released by TMI even though upwind incidence of the disease had dropped below the national average. The same year, six workers entered the heavily contaminated reactor building and five of the six later died of radiation-induced cancers. David Lochbaum of the Union of Concerned Scientists reports that UCS opposed license renewal for the surviving TMI units and demanded health studies for neighbors. The NRC refused.

In the county where TMI is located, infant deaths soared 53.7 percent in the first month after the accident; 27 percent in the first year. As originally published, the federal government's own "Monthly Vital Statistics Report" shows a statistically significant rise in infant and overall mortality rates shortly after the accident.

Studying 10 counties closest to TMI, co-authors Jay M. Gould and Benjamin Goldman, in their meticulously documented 1990 book Deadly Deceit, found that childhood cancers, other infant diseases, and deaths from birth defects were 15 to 35 percent higher than before the accident and those from breast cancer 7 percent higher. These increases far exceeded those elsewhere in Pennsylvania. Gould suggests that between 50,000 and 100,000 excess deaths occurred after the TMI accident.

http://www.zcommunications.org/zmag/viewArticle/21348

[OI812]

57. I notice the tinfoilers at that Z-something site don't mention deaths from hydrocarbon

combustion products. Not surprising.

[Liberation Angel]

58. Once again - it is NOT nukes vs coal/hydrocarbon that we argue...

there is a strong push, however, to covert nuke plants to natural gas which is feasible and economically sound.

But it is a false argument to say that it must be nukes or coal or hydrocarbons.

I support NONE of those nor do most people who oppose Nuclear power.

It is a red herring.

A dissembling

to suggest that this is the only choice.

[madokie]

63. That is their only choice in argument

only tool in the tool box so it gets used often. I'm telling you I've been around this for a long time and the nuke industry will do and say whatever they think will further their cause, facts be damned.

[Liberation Angel]

65. Well, they also use lies, ridicule, insults and namecalling

dissembling, chaos, confusion and other tactics.

But the argument that it is coal vs nuclear gets them a lot of traction NOT because it is a good argument but because it gets green folks to pause while they try to figure it out.

That pause is where a lot of the problem is among progressives.

There should be no pause.

We should be well armed with facts that make it clear. Nukes are not an option. Coal is not the solution either.

Coversion of our energy needs to 100% renewables and conservation would provide full employment for al who want jobs and would create a safer and healthier world for the future.

But that makes too much sense and too little profit and is too threatening for the fascists of wall street and other totalitarian states.

[madokie]

66. I agree 100%

Like I've said before this isn't my first rodeo. I hear the same bull as I did 40 years ago only the persons and names telling the lies have changed.

[OI812]

67. Uh, natural gas is a hydrocarbon.

It does have fewer toxic combustion byproducts than coal but they are there. But what the hell, it's not as if there is an infinite supply of them...eventually we will have to use some kind of nuclear devices to supply the world with power...or do without.

typo fix

[Wilms]

60. Tin-foilers?

Now even an anti-nuke activist is called a tin-foiler?

Are the hate-talk radio educators of millions of ignorant Americans finding it easier to have fewer classifications for their "gifted" sycophants to memorize and regurgitate on boards they're sent to infiltrate?

[Liberation Angel]

61. +1

I know!

[madokie]

64. +1

Me too

[OI812]

69. Gee, thanks for the (wrong) broad-brush insult. As it happens, I helped to

STOP construction on a nuclear powerplant in Oklahoma nearly 40 years ago (between Tulsa and Inola.)
The industry's track record was dicey back in those days but compared to other technologies has caused less death and harm since then. Looking for FEASIBLE ways to supply the world's exponentially increasing appetite for energy is not an indication of being a mouthpiece for hate-talk radio people and to imply that it is, is extremely insulting.

What is (a form of) "tinfoiling" is condemning one technology for poor reasons while ignoring the more threatening aspects of competing ones.

[Wilms]

75. Again. Are you creating your own language?

Or are you broad-brush insulting those who are more impressed with science then blow-hard talk show host diatribe?

And why would you want to accommodate "exponentially increasing appetite for energy"? Do you buy heroin for addicts because of their exponentially increasing appetite? I don't.

But go on and just say, "ditto".

[Pavulon]

68. NO names, no death certificates, just "spirit of resistance"

from an agenda group.

[Liberation Angel]

72. Two cousins, one very close friend, two infants with birth defects

all who lived/worked very close to one nuke plant in my home community. My two cousins and the very close friend all spent a lot of time on the water not far from the effluent pipes at the nuke plant. All died of metastatic/bone/brain cancer in their early forties. My female cousins both had two kids who were way too young to have their moms die this way.

Close friends who lived virtually on the beach next to the power plant were not drug users, nor heavy drinkers, did not even smoke (weed or tobacco) yet both their children were born with severe birth defects.

Their first daughter has never ben able to walk or communicate beyond grunts and groans and her eyes roll up in her head. She was a really beautiful girl whose body twisted and contorted and writhed continually with pain is unable to walk or even play and she remains in a wheelchair requiring 24 hour care.

The son had heart defects requiring several surgeries and he made it through, but he nearly died in utero and if the parents did not have adequate insurance (he worked for Amtrak) they would never have been able to afford the surgeries required to correct the mutation of his heart organ.

None of their death certificates say or will say: the nuke plant caused this cancer, this mutation, this death. But the epidemiological studies which establish the most probable causation of such diseases and deaths have ben done.

Now tell me who has the time and money and resources to go up against the most powerful industry in the history of mankind (the nuclear industry which controls ALL the world's nuclear weapons and thus practically all the worlds' political bodies (you really can't get nukes without someone in the nuke industry providing you with watcha need).

Who can effectively sue these murderers?

I know folks who tried and the law firms saw who the defendants would be (Westinghouse, General Dynamics, General Electric, Bechtel, Halliburton, Dominion, etc.) said - there is not enough money in the world to sustain a lawsuit against these plaintiffs. It would destroy ANY law firm who tries to bring suit.

This was one of the most successful class action law firms in the country. I know because I know the folks who wanted to bring suit.

So there is NO agenda group.

I am a human being who cares about humanity and the future.

I have enough education and experience both in the nuclear industry (working for a subcontractor dealing with environmental medical issues) and as a Congressional legislative staffer whose staff dealt with nuclear issues and a community activist involved in NRC hearings on safety issues who worked with the experts and helped with preparation of testimonay and evidence.

This is truth, not fiction.

[Pavulon]

74. yadda yadda, no names no death certs. you are a jehovas witness(nt)

[SidDithers]

71. IP2 back up and running...

http://www.midhudsonnews.com/News/2010/January/14/IP2_up-14Jan10.html

BUCHANAN – The Indian Point 2 nuclear power plant is back up and running and was reconnected to the power grid generating electricity Tuesday night around 9 p.m., Entergy officials said.

The plant automatically shut down at 4 p.m. Monday due to a problem with its main electrical generator. NRC resident inspectors continue to investigate the cause of the shutdown.

There was no threat to worker or the public.

The extremely minor, non nuclear related incident has concluded and power is once again being fed into the grid.

Sid

[Liberation Angel]

73. MY STORY: 2 cousins and a best friend dead, 2 babies deformed

Two cousins, one very close friend, dead two infants with birth defects

all who lived/worked very close to one nuke plant in my home community. My two cousins and the very close friend all spent a lot of time on the water not far from the effluent pipes at the nuke plant. All died of metastatic/bone/brain cancer in their early forties. My female cousins both had two kids who were way too young to have their moms die this way.

Close friends who lived virtually on the beach next to the power plant were not drug users, nor heavy drinkers, did not even smoke (weed or tobacco) yet both their children were born with severe birth defects.

Their first daughter has never ben able to walk or communicate beyond grunts and groans and her eyes roll up in her head. She was a really beautiful girl whose body twisted and contorted and writhed continually with pain is unable to walk or even play and she remains in a wheelchair requiring 24 hour care.

The son had heart defects requiring several surgeries and he made it through, but he nearly died in utero and if the parents did not have adequate insurance (he worked for Amtrak) they would never have been able to afford the surgeries required to correct the mutation of his heart organ.

None of their death certificates say or will say: the nuke plant caused this cancer, this mutation, this death. But the epidemiological studies which establish the most probable causation of such diseases and deaths have been done.

Now tell me who has the time and money and resources to go up against the most powerful industry in the history of mankind (the nuclear industry which controls ALL the world's nuclear weapons and thus practically all the worlds' political bodies (you really can't get nukes without someone in the nuke industry providing you with watcha need).

Who can effectively sue these murderers?

I know folks who tried and the law firms saw who the defendants would be (Westinghouse, General Dynamics, General Electric, Bechtel, Halliburton, Dominion, etc.) said - there is not enough money in the world to sustain a lawsuit against these plaintiffs. It would destroy ANY law firm who tries to bring suit.

This was one of the most successful class action law firms in the country. I know because I know the folks who wanted to bring suit.

So there is NO agenda group.

I am a human being who cares about humanity and the future.

I have enough education and experience both in the nuclear industry (working for a subcontractor dealing with environmental medical issues) and as a Congressional legislative staffer whose staff dealt with nuclear issues and a community activist involved in NRC hearings on safety issues who worked with the experts and helped with preparation of testimonay and evidence.

This is truth, not fiction.