US team may have found key to fight obesity: study

[demoleft]

AFP - Shutting down an energy-controlling mechanism in mice left them leaner than normal mice and could be a new way to fight obesity in humans, US researchers said in a study published Tuesday.

And the finding is big news in the United States, where around a third of the adult population is considered obese, meaning they have a body mass index (BMI) greater than 30, according to the American Obesity Association.

BMI is calculated by dividing a person's body weight in kilograms by their height in meters squared.

The researchers found that by switching off potassium channels which are sensitive to adenosine triphosphate (ATP) -- a molecule in cells that stores the energy we need to do just about everything -- made mice burn more energy and left them leaner than normal mice.

source AFP. whole article: http://www.france24.com/en/20100106-us-team-may-have-found-key-fight-obesity-study


i found this too, about child obesity. same source, AFP:

Gobble-o-meter helps fight against child obesity: study
AFP - A new device aimed at discouraging eaters from bolting their food is a useful tool in combatting childhood obesity, according to a study published online on Wednesday by the British Medical Journal (BMJ).

Doctors carried out an 18-month assessment of a small computer-linked scale called a Mandometer, which has been developed by scientists at Sweden's Karolinska Institute.

The gadget entails an electronic scale which sits underneath the diner's plate, weighing the remaining food as the meal is consumed.

Sitting next to it, on the table, is a small screen which shows a graph indicating the rate at which the food is being eaten. This line is matched against an ideal graph for consumption, as programmed by a food therapist.

whole article: http://www.france24.com/en/20100106-gobble-o-meter-helps-fight-against-child-obesity-study

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Add leptin and the leptin cycle and a few other things

and the will school of thought is starting to go down...

That said I don't expect the morality police to give up one ounce... no pun.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

6. Yep, 30 to 40 million people with thyroid problems, others....

leptin resistance, adrenal fatigue, yada yada......

"Oh but those people are RARE that have glandular problems". BULLSHIT.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. And adult syndrome

I could go on...

Of course there is this thing about HFCS... but hey that would take away from the "you have no moral center and you should just shut your mouth off."

That is far more fun...

:hi:

I expect the crowd to show up.

That computer though really caught my attention. I know many over eaters just suffer from eating too fast, which our society LOVES and encourages.

[laughingliberal]

61. Eating too fast can result from certain job situations, too

That 30 minute lunch break I got as a nurse in the hospitals did not encourage taking your time to eat. Especially if you have to fit a bathroom break in there, too. My weight is not bad but eating very fast is a habit I developed while working and it has been hard to break.

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. Ah yes, ten years of EMS

there were days all we got was a protein bar in-between calls, as in ON THE way to the call.

And we both are lucky. The military is far worst...

It takes conscious effort to eat slow these days.

[laughingliberal]

80. Power Bars! A lot of those in my hospice days in the car on my way to the next patient. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

83. Good news, they have improved flavor wise

and there are far better alternatives to them.

:-)

I have to laugh at some of the shit I used to do.

I should have bought stock on powerbars at one point though.

And as a diabetic these days I carry a protein bar as well. If I get hit with a low... after the pills comes out the protein bar.

[laughingliberal]

88. You mean they don't taste like sawdust anymore?

Good plan with the protein bar for the lows. I'm so old I remember when we used to give patients orange juice with sugar in it and walk away. It always made sense to me they should get a little protein along with it. Other nurses thought I was crazy cause, "that's how we've always done it." "Yeah," I thought, "and you've always had to go back and do it again in 2 hours, huh?"

[nadinbrzezinski]

91. There are other brands that are better tasting

of course there is always the dry beef too.

I have not had a low in so long...

Which is good.

I learned to carry my protein bar (or egg or what have you) and just do it.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

2. I know this isn't popular, but what about eating less and exercising more?

Yes, I know there are some obese people with legit medical issues relating to their obesity, but I'm referring to the others.

[Sanity Claws]

3. That's my reaction too

People have to stop believing that cures come from a pill.
The best way to improve one's health, including losing extra pounds, is to eat right and move one's body in either exercise or manual labor.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

5. I lost 30 pounds within a few months of moving to NYC.

And that was just from walking everywhere. I was eating cheeseburgers all the time. ;)

[stray cat]

7. True - but its hard to get sufficient nutrients at less than 800 calories per day

which is what it takes for some people I know to lose weight - of course broken bones in the feet which won't heal and keep breaking over the last two years makes it tough to really burn calories working out although she does low weight bearing aerobics and water excercises.

[Sanity Claws]

9. I don't see how anyone can live on 800 calories

I'm sorry your friend is having such a rough time.

[backscatter712]

14. 800 calories is waaaay too low.

Assuming you don't have other medical issues that would prevent normal dieting from working, you'd generally want to cut your caloric intake to about 500 calories below your normal burn rate.

For most people, the burn rate's about 2,000 calories, but that varies widely from person to person.

But almost nobody has a burn rate so low that eating only 800 calories a day is healthy...

[we can do it]

17. They Are Starving Themselves & the Body Naturally Holds On To Fat Then

sheesh - eat sensible and move around it really is simple. Starvation makes it worse- pool exercise would work- resistance without impact....most doctors want you to be sick and drug dependent.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. 1000 calories and GAINED close to 50 pounds on oh

three months.

The eat less, exercise more, as we are finding out is highly simplistic, and full of moral condemnation.

Why it is actually very popular.

By the way... thyroid dysfunction, adult metabolic syndrome and side effect of med, in case you wonder.

[backscatter712]

13. Eat less/exercise more works on people with reasonably normal metabolism.

If aside from a few extra pounds, you're reasonably healthy, have a reasonably normal metabolism, and don't have medical conditions from diabetes to thyroid problems to medication side-effects, then you can lose weight by restricting your calories and hitting the gym.

If you've got health problems interfering with your metabolism, yes, it's not that simple.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. And we are finding that these issues are far more common

than we used to belief.

Diet (as in all the chemicals) may have a lot to do with it, but in reality it is no longer that simple. If it was, we'd have our epidemic licked by now.

[we can do it]

16. No Its Easier To Blame It On Something Else From the Couch While Eating Junk

[eShirl]

31. Why isn't everyone thin if it is so easy?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

33. Where did I say it applied to everyone?

And I know "everyone" isn't eating right and exercising.

[snooper2]

57. everyone was 100 years ago...

look at some old pictures and tell me how many obese people you can find...


Shit, it used to be a freak show circus thing...the 500lb lady/man

escalators..
cars..
tv..
shitty processed food..

People in general are just fucking lazy. I could have afforded to rent a post hole digger and just fire it up and hold the handle while preparing for a new fence. But no, I went old school with a shovel...that's how you stay in shape.

[nadinbrzezinski]

79. Let me add some things to your list

Insecticides.
JP5 (especially in the Western Water Table)
Plastics
Other chemicals.

[Scout]

51. 'cuz, you know, no one has tried that yet... important post, thanks.

it doesn't matter if you eat right or not, if your body does not properly give you access to the calories as energy.

fucking duh.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

58. In that post and throughout this thread, I have allowed for medical exceptions.

What annoys me (aside from people ignoring that) is that not a single contrarian in this thread has admitted that diet and exercise works in the majority of weight-loss cases. According to them, it's *always* the fault of something else -- HFCS (which falls under diet, BTW), pesticides, etc.

It couldn't possibly have anything to do with the exponential consumption of fast food and other unhealthy things along with an increasingly sedentary lifestyle, could it ?

:eyes:

[Scout]

86. prove that please

"According to them, it's *always* the fault of something else "
LINK needed.

you notice in the article, it stated that by manipulating the gene, and no other changes, the mice lost weight and maintained that weight loss. they did NOT decrease their calories and they did NOT put them on their little mousy treadmills ... so the mice LOST WEIGHT AND MAINTAINED that loss WITHOUT changing diet and exercise. get it now?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

90. Yeah, gene manipulation tends to produce freaky results.

But for people who are not guinea pigs (which is just about everybody), diet/exercise will reduce weight for most of them. And for the 100th time, I am allowing for certain medical exceptions. My problem is that posters in this thread are saying the majority of people get and stay obese for non-diet/exercise reasons and that improving said regimen wouldn't help them at all, which is clearly false.

"According to them, it's *always* the fault of something else "
LINK needed.

Look at nadin's posts in this thread. Several times when I asked her point-blank whether or not diet/exercise works in the majority of cases (which I have stated throughout the thread, allowing for some medical exceptions), she reverts to random theories about pesticides, etc., instead of admitting that diet/exercise generally does work, and it's something we have plenty of visible evidence of.

[nadinbrzezinski]

93. Translation I really do not understand what they did

with the genes or how that would translate to regular living beings outside the lab.

Oh and no, exercise and diet do not work for most cases. Proof is in the damn fucking pudding. 95% failure rates should tell you this... sparky... over thirty or so years. That my dear is a generation of this experiment running.

Why they don't work... you can say it is because people are not committed (moral judgment) or you can ask WHY they are not working. I guess you do not want to ask WHY.

Thankfully science like this genetic manipulation is giving us some useful answers...

Try this for measure.

What we think of conceptually as 1 KCal is not processed the same way by all living beings, nor does it give 1 Kcal to all living beings. Some use the damn energy more efficiently than oh others. Why some people are naturally svelte, and can consume sick amounts of food, while others struggle wiht recommended intakes.

[Darth_Kitten]

53. You make too much sense.....

:rofl: :)

[treestar]

59. That scale would seem to help people eat less

Pay more attention to what they are eating.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

60. Sorry, "eat right" is a better phrase.

[theoldman]

4. People will do anything to reduce their weight.

The one thing that most people will not do is reduce the amount of food they put into their mouth. It's not just the amount of food, it's the amount of sugar and fat. I am sure that humans knew this scientific secret a million years ago. For some unknown reason it has been erased from our memory.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Once again , it is NOT that simple

1000 Kcals \ day, still gained weight, about 50 pounds in three months.

I know it is an easy, and morally satisfying, explanation... but at this point I wish that hell on the morality police

[Starbucks Anarchist]

15. Nobody is talking about the people with medical conditions.

It's the school of thought that ALL obese people suffer from said conditions, etc., when in fact, eating right and exercising more works in the majority of cases.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. The majority is no longer the majority

in the West you may want to look fer them darn cute underlying causes. such as pesticides that work like hormones.

If it was this simple, we would not be in the kind of a pickle we are with obesity.

People who KNOW a lot more than I do are now admitting a straight correlation with HFCS and pesticides.

Trust me, I WISH it was this simple.

And yes I know I am wishing this hell on the morality police, but given what we are seeing, my wish has a good chance of becoming reality.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

23. So nobody becomes obese through poor diet and lack of exercise?

And no obese people can ever lose weight through proper diet and exercise?

And who ever thought HFCS wasn't harmful?

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. Simple thinking

simple solutions.

Riddle me this... if it is all about only ins and outs, why do we have this explosion in obesity in Mexico, the US. Canada, the EU... etcetera?

I know, I know, if them fatties just stopped eating.


Now SOME folks do gain weight from improper diet and lack of exercise, but the percentage that you can explain ONLY by that cause is increasingly seen as oh well RARE.

I don't expect the morality police to drop it. Not until they get to enjoy this as well.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

26. I don't understand your obsession with "morality police," whatever that is.

And I never said in *all* cases, but rather in most cases, yes, calories in/out works.

It's no secret that more and more people are eating unhealthier and leading more sedentary lives. Blaming *all* obesity cases on whatever the current scapegoat is is ignoring reality. I was overweight for most of my life, but within a few months of moving to NYC (where constant walking is highly necessary), guess what happened? I dropped 30 pounds. It was the first place I lived that was not car-centric. I moved more in a month in NYC than I did in a year in L.A.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. You think people don't move in oh Mexico City?

Congratulations, but health authorities no longer think it is that simple.

For the record they do wish it were that simple, but it is not. IT is the last forty years that have convinced them of this. There is something wrong, or more accurately a multifactorial reason of why this thinking is not working, and it is a billion +\ year bidness by the way.

We have an epidemic, that is leading to a crisis. Partly it is what we put in food, partly it is a very adaptive gene in times of famine\feast... (they may come back so the maladaptive gene will become very adaptive once again), partly it is adult metabolic syndrome.

You scoff. I don't.

I realize that we have a real crisis and one that is not just that easy to explain. If it was, well the fat gene would not be real, or the Leptin Cycle, or the effects of hormone like substances (we call them pesticides) on the human body. Yes intake has some to do with it, as well as exercise, but you are the one thinking that it is just one thing. You are accusing others who are looking at this as a MULTI CAUSAL COMPLEX matter of blaming one thing, when it is you who is doing that.

And that is a moral judgment, not a science based one. You see, it comes down to this. I eat less, and move more, if you fatties did the same... well it ain't that simple. And in a real minority of cases, it will not work anyway, just reducing calories and exercising. (There are science based reasons why that happens, but I will not trouble your mind with that) Suffice it say we do have a few cases where genes are very interesting, and satiety control does not exist.

But if you think it is that simple, well then, I guess we have nothing more to say to each other on this subject. If you are curious... start by researching adult metabolic syndrome, insulin resistance, thyroid dysfunction and yes... the role of insecticides (and the green revolution) in this. The last one might be the law of unintended consequences, truly. Oh and this is just the tip of a very complex iceberg.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

29. I've repeatedly said in this thread that calories in/out doesn't work in all cases.

But otherwise, it clearly has been sound science for a very long time.

So it's either that, or all the people I've seen who have lost weight through diet and exercise are the result of a very long drug-induced hallucination. :eyes:

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. To use a fancy word

it is part of the armamentarium, but not the ONLY TOOL any more.

[unc70]

40. Morality police claim lack of will, bad parenting, etc. causal, but actually medical

As a society and as a species we are quick to attribute bad outcomes, non-conformance to societal norms, poverty, unemployment, and much more on actions taken or not taken by the "victim" or their parents, et al. This is probably a personal defense mechanism need to convince ourselves that through our own actions we can control our destinies.

This assigning primary "blame" on the "victim", even when confronted with overwhelming evidence to the contrary for decades, seems particularly strong when it involves things like eating, health, mental health, finances, and other things we each deal with every day. We gain an illusion of knowledge, or more aptly a delusion promoted by those with enormous financial gain by perpetuating the false "truths".

Look at how long it is taking to start treating gastric ulcers effectively. A few of us have known for decades that almost all gastric ulcers are caused by bacteria and are cured with inexpensive antibiotics. The drug companies had spent years developing treatments for the symptoms of the ulcers, and these drugs had become highly profitable. The "morality police" blamed the ulcers on hard living, excessive drinking, spicy or other types of food in the diet. Your stomach pains were payback for not taking care of yourself, made worse by the bland diets typically perscribed.

Birth defects -- the mother must have done something selfish while pregnant; doesn't she know any better?

Anorexia -- it's the fashion industry and advertising now, not like centuries ago when it was a sign of Christian piety and saintly sacrifice.

Poverty -- just lazy, looking for a handout rather than for a job. You just need to work harder to get ahead. Everyone knows that. It's the American Dream, sort of.

Foreclosure -- bought a McMansion you couldn't afford, a Ponzi promoted by lenders, builders, and Realtors. What were you thinking back then, before your company went out of business, before the cancer, before you stretched that six month reserve fund out for more than a year, even splurging on COBRA until you exhausted your eligibility.

BTW I am one of those who can eat almost any amount of anything with my weight barely changing, whether I exercise and stay active or lie in bed all week and barely move.

[K8-EEE]

39. I also think that junk food is literally an addictive substance for some

I've known a couple of people who were addicted to fast food and soda in a truly heroin like way. The don't WANT to eat so much of it but and always say they will quit but start jonesin' for the stuff. I think sodium and corn syrup and other ingredients act like a drug for some.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

24. I wish they'd go to hell too.

All my life I have had pitched battles at meals with my mother and grandmother. I would not eat my grandmother's crappy, overcooked mushy food. Then mom would get on my case for gaining weight.
Your basic double bind mindfuck.

It's a good thing my mom cooked the opposite from my grandmother - Mom cooked good quality, low fat meat, butter, eggs. I did not know about broccoli until I was grown. My grandmother boiled everything to death -- turnip greens, mudtard greens, and then iceberg lettuce for salad.

And I never had Chinese food until I was 19 and a senior in college. I dated a boy whose parents owned a pizza restaurant and we went to various restaurants.

Grandma had an overactive thyroid - she thought everyone else was lazy. Mom had a dead thyroid, autoimmune disorder. Hers stopped working when she was eleven yrs old, in the Depression, and she was put on Armour Thyroid. The same thing happened to me. I was put on Armour Thyroid when I was eleven years old and suddenly had no energy. I've never known what it's like to be really awake when I get up in the morning. And I need at least ten hours of sleep to function.

I was not fat in high school. I gradually added on the pounds over the decades.

My mother's family also had rheumatoid arthritis which is another autoimmune disorder. My mother's sister had a thyroid where one half was dead, and the other half worked, but she seemed to produce enough thyroid because she was energetic. She has four daughters that are baby boomers. Two of them are slim and sweet. They have normal thyroids. Two of them are fat and have always been grumpy around me. Those two have dead thyroids like I do.

A lot of thyroid trouble runs in families because it's commonly an autoimmune disorder, like many other diseases.

I was on a doctor supervised low calorie diet. I lost a few pounds, but not nearly enough, since my bod went into starvation mode and refused to lose any more than eight pounds. I need to lose sixty to get to my ideal weight.

Read up on Testosterone supplementation as well. Women need it when they get older, as well as men, to burn fat.

[Missy Vixen]

35. And we are discriminated against whether or not we have those medical conditions

Maybe those of us who are "okay" should wear a sign, so that those of you who continue to shame and mock the fat will know that you can save your bullying and derision for someone else.

:mad:

I am SO sick of the smug, supercilious winners of the genetic lottery on this site.

:eyes:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

38. Please point out where I mocked, bullied or derided fat people.

I am SO sick of the smug, supercilious winners of the genetic lottery on this site.

Again, this does not apply to me, as I was overweight for most of my life and only recently became thinner. I mentioned that in this thread several times.

You clearly are putting words in my mouth and lashing out at me for no apparent reason. Just because you're discriminated against (which is wrong, BTW), there's no need to attack me for pointing out basic science.

And I also stated -- repeatedly -- in this thread that there are exceptions to this rule, so don't try to imply that I don't know about them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. The problem is that basic science includes far more than just

calories in and calories out.

Please do some readying, you are in for a damn shock.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

46. I guess all those doctors must be wrong.

:eyes:

[Scout]

52. most doctors know SHIT about nutrition n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. My brother IS a doctor, and he will be the first to tell you

that six hours of nutrition education in medical school and less than a semester while in specialty training make him far less qualified in human nutrition than oh a Registered Dietitian. Try to keep up.

Oh and he prefers to refer his patients to oh RDs when the insurance companies (rarely) will pay for it, or they can afford it.

You know things like oh Celiac and Chrohsn require not just meds, but diet... that is where the Registered Dietitian comes in.

Really out of your league here.

[laughingliberal]

67. True. I had twice the hours of nutrition in an ADN program as most doctors take nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

70. And he is a gastroenterologist for god sakes

and top rated in his field...

:-)

Sis is an RD so we have a good laugh over that one.

She had four years of undergraduate and 2 years of graduate... versus oh a total of 100 hours, best case... over a whole career.

And he deals with the digestive system.

But people still believe they should ask their doctor for nutrition advise... no, go see the RD...

[laughingliberal]

85. +1 nt

[Starbucks Anarchist]

69. For the last time, I have allowed for medical exceptions.

YOU try to keep up.

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. And if you need to get diet advise

see a Registered Dietitian. Doctors don't learn nutrition, RDs do.

[laughingliberal]

65. It took years for doctors to quit pushing the idea that cutting cholesterol intake would lower your

cholesterol even after years of studies were never able to tie dietary intake of cholesterol to cholesterol levels. Just seemed to make sense to them so they said it. Come to find out the trans-fats were the bigger contributor to the problem all along and were often contained in the baked goods people turned to in order to avoid cholesterol. Sometimes the simplest explanation is the best, sometimes it's not. I have worked in health care long enough to see a lot of the sacred cows of medical dogma turned on their ears. Hell, when I graduated from nursing school they were still giving people milk for stomach ulcers.

[nadinbrzezinski]

68. WOW you are dating yourself there

:-)

And sacred cows are turned on their heads regularly.

The nature of scientific revolutions and all that.

[laughingliberal]

84. Yes, I've been around medicine longer than I care to remember.

I swear I was there in the days they put NG tubes down ulcer patients and administered milk drips. As funny as that sounds now, I am certain we have some beliefs these days which will sound just as outlandish to people 10 or 20 years from now. Hell, I have fibromyalgia. Twenty years ago when I got sick it didn't even really have a name. Most of the doctors in the US thought it was a bunch of lazy yuppies. Now, there's a study looking into the xmrv retrovirus as many CFS/fibromyalgia patients have been found to be infected with it. It's amazing how many people think all they have it all figured out. And some doctors can be the worst. If they didn't learn it in medical school or they don't know the answer then it must not be real. Seems a lot of them just have an aversion to the words, "I don't know."

[nadinbrzezinski]

89. I have not just done EMS but history of science

and medicine. SO yes I am sure some of the things we think are the IN thing right now, will be overturned. Hell these days them leeches are back...

And my brother (the other one) has an ulcer. He got it when you had to drink milk. He is lactose intolerant.

You can imagine the mess.

But as to the doctors, it is not just them not being able to say I don't know. It is literally the belief that if they are an MD, they know everything... sadly not just in the US.

It is the mystery of what they do I guess.

[we can do it]

19. Except For Changing Bad Habits For Good

[Caretha]

8. Eating fast!

I'm one of the slowest eaters I know. I'm not obese, in fact for height, age etc. I'm exactly where I should be. I mention this because I'm constantly apologizing to people I'm eating with, who are finished mega-times faster than I am. I'm sorry...."I'm a slow eater".

They say..'that's okay, I just eat fast. I sit there continuing to eat, not much of a talker, and wonder how they shovel it down like that.

[Quantess]

18. Not eating too fast has been associated with eating smaller portions.

The stomach sends a signal to the brain that stomach is full. The signal takes time to reach the brain, so someone wolfing down their food ends up eating more by the time the brain gets the signal to stop eating.

[fizzgig]

22. i'm always the last one to finish eating

i know that eating slowly has decreased the portion sizes i eat. i lost about 30 pounds a few years back and i've kept it off since.

my husband complains about his weight a lot, but won't listen to me when i tell him he'll eat less and lose a few pounds if he didn't shovel his food. he'll have his plate cleaned before i'm a third of the way through and his portions are easily 50% bigger than mine.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

28. BMI sucks, mine is between 28 and 29 and I have a 32 inch waist.

It's a joke.

[dustbunnie]

32. These threads never fail to amuse. The comments are hilarious also, as usual.

According to the expert posters, all obesity is caused by genetics and the chems in our food. And yet, these comments are in response to a study that indicates when kids are told not to eat too much too fast, they lose weight. :eyes: No shit. We were taught that as kids. Then there's Mexico, which has a horrific obesity problem, yet they don't use HFCS. They must ALL have issues with their thyroids. :eyes:

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. No according to the SSA... look the acronymn up

it has a lot more to do with Western Diet, and yes... genetics. Them pesky genetics.

But I am sure you knew this since you've read some of the studies on the subject done by among others the IPN. No I will not bother translating the alphabet soup for you. Nor will I point out that according to the UNAM there is also a strong correlation with chemicals in our foods... such as insecticides.

You may want to read the leading edge of those studies, or never mind, why trouble your beautiful mind with it.

By the way, HCFS have not gone south not because of taste, but because Mexico did not have a corn industry to protect. Something they are now hitting their heads against the wall for other reasons... look up Nixtamal and corn.

[Missy Vixen]

36. You're more amusing than the threads are

I can't even imagine any encounter with the fat police from here IRL. It's unfortunate that you, and so many others here, have nothing else to do with your time or your lives.

The facts remain: It's not all amount of food or food choices that determine who's obese and who's not. If it was, those who struggle with their weight could lose it easily and keep it off. Those of you who can't wait to browbeat and bully can't admit that there may be underlying conditions that cause the body to cling to excess weight, or chemicals in our food that cause one person to metabolize the same food differently than someone else. After all, those losers at the gym that dare to show up and actually need some help should have just backed away from the table in the first place, and they wouldn't have the problem, would they?

:eyes:

Nice shot re: thyroid disease. I used to think I would never wish it on anyone, but there's a few posters here that frankly, I wouldn't cry if they were diagnosed.

:mad:

[Manifestor_of_Light]

41. Yeah, those of us in the Dead Thyroid Club are quite common.

Thank you, Missy Vixen and nadin for telling these "perfect skinny people" that it is NOT about willpower or morality.

I got yelled at for "picking at my food" and then later for getting fat. Ah, the joys of being a daughter.......

[dustbunnie]

42. Save your anger for the OP, not for me. I didn't write the study.

Yes, it's highly amusing to me that there are people who will argue and spit abuse at the few who suggest that one or two people might be helped in the quest to lose weight if they follow a sensible diet and exercise routine.

It's you people who fly off the handle all the time... just look at the red-faced emoticon you've chosen for me. Instead, you should be directing all of your pent-up rage at the OP for posting a study that dares to suggest that when children eat less, they don't gain weight. What rot! We all know that's bullpoop. Right?

Lol, and I personally don't give a hoot what you or anyone else weighs, or eats for that matter. It's your health, not mine. And I've learned here from the resident experts that absolutely nothing can be done about obesity for 99% of the world's population, so why bother trying and suffering for nothing.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

43. +1.

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. Once again, try to keep up

DIET IS PART OF THE ANSWER BUT NOT THE WHOLE ANSWER.

Now have you looked up the grocery list of institutions I gave you?

Oh here you go

http://www.insp.mx/Portal/Centros/ciss/nls/boletines/PME_14.pdf

Hope you can read Spanish.

:banghead:

One of many by the way.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

47. Yes, exercise is the other part.

[dustbunnie]

50. Ssshh. It's upsetting to people to hear that. :-) n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. Wrong, we all wish it was that simple

Alas it is not.

If it were, tell me why is it that the failure rate for people who go on a diet is ahem SO HIGH?

Oh wait, lack of will power, I know

:eyes:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

66. You're leaving out basic information.

Do they stick with the diet? Or are they just hoping for a quick fix and shocked that not keeping up with it doesn't help?

And you forgot exercise.

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. No I am not, when you have something that has a 95% failure rate

perhaps it ain't working.

Deal with it, and stop blaming the victim.

95% failure rate in ANYTHING ELSE means it is not the person doing it... but something far more fundamental.

Again try to keep up.

There is plenty of science done on this out there, alas it does not include moral failings.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

74. Right, it's always somebody else's fault.

We live in a quick-fix culture where weight-loss programs are a big part of it. It wouldn't surprise me if the overwhelming majority of people refuse to stick with the diet once the initial results are achieved.

And drop the "morality" bullshit. You keep accusing me and other posters of using it when we have said nothing of the sort. I'm sorry your ignorance of basic -- and proven -- science for the majority of people causes you to lash out in anger.

And for someone who keeps spouting "Science!", you sure didn't link to the 95% failure-rate stats and why it was so high. You just assumed it was somebody else's fault.

[nadinbrzezinski]

78. Blame the victim

again, 95% of diets fail, not just in the US, so leave the poor US routine behind.

Right now here is where things are moving.

Perhaps the high in carb, low in protein and fat diet (recommended for the last 40 years or so) is part of the problem. Yes, there is research ongoing RIGHT NOW on to this, and new dietary recommendations will come out.

So are the added chemicals and other things in our foods that did not exist before we started fiddling with food in this way. Read on the GREEN REVOLUTION and then on unintended effects...

If you look at a curve on obesity rates it is striking when it started going off the scale. It coincides with oh thinner egg shells on wild birds roosts. We removed DDT from the food chain. You think OTHER insecticides don't have unwanted effects?

I guess we do live outside of nature and chemicals do not concentrate on bodies.

I guess I should start ignoring the global weather change too.

So do you recommend fundy Christianity as a world view and is the world truly six thousand years old? Or is this just... we really want to ignore all the emerging science because being morally superior is far better for me.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

82. Your post is like a trainwreck on fire.

And then you -- quite poorly -- tie your rant to global climate change in an effort to shoehorn your kooky theories (bird shells?) onto a totally different theory that has been proven.

So do you recommend fundy Christianity as a world view and is the world truly six thousand years old? Or is this just... we really want to ignore all the emerging science because being morally superior is far better for me.

For one, I'm an atheist, so joke's on you. Two, just because you can't accept diet/exercise/calories in/out generally works, that doesn't make you a scientific expert on anything, let alone this topic. And three, YOU are the only one bringing this "moral superiority" BS argument here. I have never stated or implied that I was morally superior to anybody here. Your paranoia is quite pitiful.

[nadinbrzezinski]

87. You implie it heavily

if you fatties quit eating and exercise you will lose weight.

Funny, that is the message of the diet industry as well.

Oh and we have no clue what Leptin is, do we?

Of course not, that would mean troubling our beautiful mind with some science. Here is a hint, you are doing the same thing as the global weather deniers. It does not matter what the science says, they deny it. Well same here.

Free clue, I am not paranoid, just calling them as I see them. Sadly I could have become like many others who have found Jesus, or weight loss or whatever... because I WAS there. Unlike you I do not make a moral judgment over them fatties. All the readying I have done over the last ten years has led me to the conclusion (supported by science) that it is not that simple, and morality has no place in science.

By the way the first article deals with ATP and the energy cycle in the cell. Try to read it, one of the clues as to why some people gain weight more easily than others is in there and part of a large trend in the science currently done. No, you do not process calories to the same extent as I do...

Glad you lost weight, and seem to be able to maintain it... but get off your high horse.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

92. I'm not on a high horse -- you're just down in the dirt with your attacks.

I never called anybody a "fattie" or any such word, nor have I brought "morality" (did you copyright that word?) into this.

I can't be held responsible for YOUR projections. Nor can I be held responsible for your repeated -- and false -- insistence that I think diet/exercise works in all cases, when I said it clearly doesn't apply in all cases, just most of them.

It's clear you have no motivation to drop your paranoia and projection. Have a good day -- if that's even possible with your attitude.

[nadinbrzezinski]

94. Paranoia? ARE YOU FRAKING NUTS?

don't answer answering.

Is that all you have to say to SCIENCE and reality?

Okie dokie... have a good fracking life...

THere are times that trying to talk to the eternally and willfully ignorant lands you in being called paranoid.

BEAUTIFUL...

Bu-bye...

[Starbucks Anarchist]

95. I see you've put me on ignore, the same way YOU actually ignore science.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[nadinbrzezinski]

98. No dear the one ignoring science

and the reams of EMERGING science is you.

And off to ignore you go. No use in trying to have a discussion with a man who does not even know what the energy cycle of a cell is... or what the fuck Leptin is... and is PROUD OF IT.

Bu-bye...

To those who are willfully ignorant, there is nothing we can do about it.

Oh and laugh as much as you want...

[dustbunnie]

49. I have kept up. Every single time someone suggests that people might be helped

by diet or exercise, people like you overwhelm the thread by insulting people and claiming what they themselves may experience vis a vis weight gain and loss is a big falsehood. A hallucination, according you and others. Same thing happened to Starbucks above. It's funny to me... but I have to agree, your world is a much nicer place to be.

Here's what I've gleaned from the DU diet experts:

1). No one ever gains weight by overeating. It's all genetics, hormones, and illness across the board Therefore, based on this logic, we should really leave 90 lb anorexics alone since they've merely achieved their genetically predisposed weight. No amount of food will ever put meat on their bones, just as overeating and living a sedentary lifestyle does not affect the overweight.

2). HFCS is the only exception to the food rule. If we got rid of it and replaced it with sugar, no one would ever gain weight. Even those who presently eat gallons of ice cream and soda could continue the practice, but with sugar as the sweetener, they'd never gain a pound.

Considering the amount of exercise I do, I can easily down a large, fully loaded, extra cheese pizza no prob. Ditto for a whole roasted chicken and tub of full-cream ice cream before bedtime. I haven't because it seems to me that I gain weight. But thanks to the wisdom I've read here, that's not the case. I can stuff myself silly with orgasmic food and never gain an ounce (as long as there's no HFCS in it). It's out of my hands totally and preordained by genetics. I thank all of you immensely as it's way more fun to eat unfettered.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

54. LOL, perfect.

:rofl:

[Lex]

55. Those are 2 strawmen. No one ever said that.

1. "No one ever gains weight by overeating."

Really, a DUer said, "NO ONE ever gains weight by overeating?" Pure strawman. Got a link?


2. "If we got rid of {HFCS} and replaced it with sugar, no one would ever gain weight." Got a link for ANYone at DU who said that?

Let's see some links where those things were said exactly.

Or are you just bullshitting?

[dustbunnie]

56. Here's one of the more abusive threads.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7016970&mesg_id=7016970

It's a disgusting read but knock yourself out. Or just scroll up if you like. The one person who dared make the point that exercise and diet could help some people was met with replies that suggested all "diet and exercise" people should go to hell, and hopes that they become ill with a disease. Or that they're just plain stupid.

I find these bitter and horrid replies odd since people are responding to an OP which cites a study proving that people eating slower, eat less, and gain less weight. But whatever. You can't know the mind of a squid.

[nadinbrzezinski]

73. Abusive to point out that diets don't work?

I guess for the morally inclined that *is* abusive.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

76. Why do you keep leaving out exercise?

It's an important part of the equation.

[nadinbrzezinski]

81. Becuase as important as it may be it is PART of the armamentarium

not the ONLY answer.

That is why.

ONCE AGAIN if this was so damn easy the diet (and exercise) industry would have had this epidemic beat... hands down.

By the way exercise alone is not the answer either... but PART of it, and not as important as we USED to think.

Things like oh the Leptin cycle are far more important, and I will be shocked of you know what that is. But I suggest you google it up. After all Leptin regulates silly shit like feeling full... and in some folks, it is OFF the scale... more folks than we used to think as well.

Oh and there are a slew of OTHER hormones as well... which exercise helps to regulate as well (see insulin), but see, it is not just as simple as calories in and out...

[dustbunnie]

96. Talk about strawmen... you're stuffed with the stuff.

The idea that lowering and/or improving the quality of one's food intake and exercising more has not even remotely anything to do with morals or ethics. (It used to be common knowledge until you blew that theory out of the water and we now know that there's not a thing anyone can do about their weight. Not overweight people, not anorexics. We can eat and drink anything we want, or starve, and it won't make a bit of difference in our health or the way we look.)

The abuse comes in the way that you cut people down and accuse them of being basically delusional for suggesting that some people may lose weight by cleaning up their lifestyle. Since the DU diet experts know it all, you could discuss the topic civilly with us ignoramuses.

[nadinbrzezinski]

99. Strawmen

The idea that lowering and/or improving the quality of one's food intake and exercising more has not even remotely anything to do with morals or ethics. (It used to be common knowledge until you blew that theory out of the water and we now know that there's not a thing anyone can do about their weight. Not overweight people, not anorexics. We can eat and drink anything we want, or starve, and it won't make a bit of difference in our health or the way we look.)

Please do kindly point where exactly people have said you cannot do a thing about weight management.

Saying that diet and exercise are PART OF THE ARMAMENTARIUM but not the holy grail does not equal saying that there is nothing people can do. It just means that it is more complex than just a simple answer, but keep repeating your strawmen, I am sure you will until the cows come home or age\ disease\ medical side effects catch up to you.

The abuse comes in the way that you cut people down and accuse them of being basically delusional for suggesting that some people may lose weight by cleaning up their lifestyle. Since the DU diet experts know it all, you could discuss the topic civilly with us ignoramuses.

Guilty as charged I guess. Pointing out that some folks are willfully ignorant of emergeing science on this field is very abusive. After all pointing out to willful ignorance and trying to point out that if things have not worked for a generation as our myths should, perhaps points to a MORE COMPLEX ANSWER.

Now just like starbucks, welcome to my ignore list. I am tired of your willful ignorance as well as your bullshit, and strawmen.

Oh and do feel free to have the last word... as I am sure you will.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

100. She's off collecting the Nobel Prize.

Too bad it's from a box of Cracker Jack.

[dustbunnie]

102. Some people are so long suffering. :-D

How they must constantly confront the ignorant and the great unwashed.

She promised last time to put me on ignore. I hope this time it sticks. :D

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. No you are not keeping up

wiht the ammount of SCIENTIFIC research done in this field.

Riddle me this, if all the answer is diet and exercise why is the billion + industry failing to make everybody skinny?

Does not matter how much science you are shown... it is like the weather change deniers. It is a world view... it is a morality driven world view, and it has very little to do with SCIENCE... that pesky thing called SCIENCE.

Diet and exericse, to once again use a buck fifty word, are part of the armamentarium. but not the only answer. Try science sometimes, and it is the MORALITY POLICE, if you fatties were not so damn lazy, that is so tiresome. It does not matter what science yhou are shown. Even in the OP... read the first article or is cell energy cycle too complex for you? That is what THAT ARTICLE and fiddling with is is dealing with. Guess what? That is genetics.

You are the one who keeps scoffing at it.

Oh and here is one more thing. You are calling me an expert? Thanks but I am not the one who claims such. You, on the other hand, are showing a classic case of projection.

[dustbunnie]

101. The reason the diet industry makes millions is because people go on diets.

They try to lose weight too fast instead of going for the long haul and changing their lifestyles. But we've already been over that.

The rest of your post is utter gibberish, and you promised last time that you put me on ignore, along with a hundred other people. Yet here you are, bleating the same thing at me. What part of "Thank you, I now understand that diet and exercise are useless for everyone. It's ALL genetics and HFCS and there's not a damn thing anyone can do about their weight. It's decided for us." eluded you.

Of course you're the expert Nadine. You tell everyone else how stupid they are. That's your job as the resident diet know-it-all.

[Kablooie]

37. So we can expect a thin, svelt Limbaugh in our future? -- Horrors!

[Obamanaut]

48. Here's another plan that works: eat less, move more. nt

[laughingliberal]

77. That's great but I went with the lucky genes plan

Ate everything I ever wanted and in quantities that made people think I must be hiding food in my pockets cause they refused to believe little old me could really down that much crap and never gain a pound. Seriously, Grand Slam breakfasts, IHOP gorge fests, all of the worst stuff you can imagine. Never even broke the 100 lb mark til I was 40 years old. People who had never been out to eat with me made all sorts of assumptions. I was praised for being so tiny and people remarked how much will power I must have. A complete projection of what they had been taught led to being thin. Am 54 now and found I did begin to gain some after I crossed 45. But have still never been over 135 lbs. Don't eat quite the same quantities I once did and do have to deny myself a little now to keep from gaining but I know plenty of people who eat far less than I and battle their weight. Also, came down with fibromyalgia in my early 30's so not much in the way of exercise since then. So, huge caloric intake, sedentary lifestyle, and still considered a good weight for a woman my age. No problems with cholesterol, triglycerides, heart disease, or anything else except the fibromyalgia.

I also have a 62 year old husband who I can't keep weight on. He also eats as much or more than the average person and can still drop weight with no reasonable explanation. He has been this way his whole life, too.

My point here is that if diet and exercise was all there was to it, I would weigh around 350 lbs and my husband would be well over 200 lbs. I know it can't be the total answer. There is much left to learn in this field.

[deaniac21]

97. The quickest way to turn this around is to change the BMI

calculation.

[theorbiter]

103. Hmmm...

It's interesting reading the comments on "morality police" and other such nonsense pertaining to this issue. I have taken to watching several seasons of The Biggest Loser, I know, some will argue hardly a scientific study but the common denominator throughout is diet and exercise. I have observed ALL contestants on this show lose some weight usually by leaps and bounds as in 10-20 pounds per week. No magic pills, no genetic excuse, just hard work. I also taught martial arts for some years and honestly EVERY single overweight person in our group classes lost weight. Again, hard work.
Morality has nothing, zip, zero, nada to do with facts. Facts are facts regardless of moral posturing. Many times science reflects current sociological trends and honestly the trend in the U.S. and other countries adopting bad eating habits is the norm of being lazy and undisciplined. Thus science is seeking a lazy undisciplined answer to this epidemic. In my opinion.