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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 07:22 PM
Original message
I think the term Progressive is too non-descriptive
I prefer Bull Shit Detector.

After all that is what progressives are, is Bullshit Detectors.

Health Care reform bill with no public option and mandates everyone into a failed system - we call it what it is.

Banks paying TARP payments back with tax breaks and the government celebrating TARP repayment - we call it what is is.

A mortgage re-modification program that helps no one - we call it what it is.

Slowing down one war and escalating another - we call it what it is.

Status quo on current free trade agreements while new ones are being entered into - we call it what it is.

A stimulus package heavy on useless tax breaks and demand forward programs - we call it what it is.

After hours Christmas Eve authorization for $200 billion into Fannie and Freddie - we call it what it is.

A Federal Reserve that lacks transparency in its actions - we call it what it is.

A group of economic advisers who could just be as comfortable in the Oval Office with Ronald Reagan - we call it what is.

The bullshit detector in me will trump party and personality every single time and it's on red alert right now.



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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. I am detecting bull shit
:evilgrin:
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. well, I TRIED to get you out of the negatives. like your term.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 07:27 PM
Original message
Spray paint it gold
it smells just the same, with the hint of paint added on.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. I think we should form a think tank and call it
Progressives For Truth and Integrity. Our sole purpose should be to hold both parties accountable for lies, corruption and breaking any oaths to uphold the Constitution. We are Americans first before any party loyalties kick in.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Democrats can be just as corrupt as Republicans
Democrats will just be corrupt with different industries. Apparently since Clinton the banks are on board now with both parties. They hedge their bets.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Like I said both parties should be held accountable.
There is corruption on both sides.
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. A progressive is someone who thinks exactly like you on every issue - how is that?
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Nope I'm a bullshit detector
sorry, that term is not applicable anymore, too many people who eat shit sandwhiches and tell me it is a cheese steak run around using it.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
6. Historically it's not all that dissimilar from your post
Progressivism was rooted in the belief, certainly not shared by all, that man was capable of improving the lot of all within society. As such, it was a rejection of Social Darwinism, the position taken by many of the rich and powerful figures of the day.

Progressivism was also imbued with strong political overtones and rejected the church as the driving force for change. Specific goals included:

# The desire to remove corruption and undue influence from government through the taming of bosses and political machines;
# the effort to include more people more directly in the political process;
# the conviction that government must play a role to solve social problems and establish fairness in economic matters.

The success of Progressivism owed much to publicity generated by the muckrakers, writers who detailed the horrors of poverty, urban slums, dangerous factory conditions, and child labor, among a host of other ills.

The successes were many, beginning with the Interstate Commerce Act (1887) and the Sherman Antitrust Act (1890). Progressives never spoke with one mind and differed sharply over the most effective means to deal with the ills generated by the trusts; some favored an activist approach to trust-busting, others preferred a regulatory approach.

A vocal minority supported socialism with government ownership of the means of production. Other Progressive reforms followed in the form of a conservation movement, railroad legislation, and food and drug laws.

The Progressive spirit also was evident in new amendments added to the Constitution, which provided for a new means to elect senators, protect society through prohibition and extend suffrage to women.

Urban problems were addressed by professional social workers who operated settlement houses as a means to protect and improve the prospects of the poor. However, efforts to place limitations on child labor were routinely thwarted by the courts. The needs of blacks and Native Americans were poorly served or served not at all a major shortcoming of the Progressive Movement.

Progressive reforms were carried out not only on the national level, but in the states and municipalities of the country as well. Prominent governors devoted to change included Robert M. La Follette of Wisconsin and Hiram Johnson of California.

Such reforms as the direct primary, secret ballot, and the initiative, referendum and recall were effected. Local governments were strengthened by the widespread use of trained professionals, particularly with the city manager system replacing the all-too-frequently corrupt mayoral system.

Formal expression was given to progressive ideas in the form of political parties on three major occasions:

# The Roosevelt Progressives (Bull Moose Party) of 1912
# The La Follette Progressives of the 1920s
# The Henry Wallace Progressives of the late 1940s and early 1950s.

More: http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1061.html
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. See that is why you rock
You are always ready with a good historical context.

:yourock:
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Thanks, Jake!
When it comes down to it, there isn't that much new under the sun- and we've been fighting these battles for a long, long time.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. +1
:)
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
39. Fightin' Bob LaFollette was the MAN!
The best dude to ever come out of that dastardly Cheesehead State. :)
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
7. k&r for the truth. That is what progressives value. n/t
:dem:

-Laelth
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StarfarerBill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
8. K&R
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
14. KR
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
15. You're so awesome
:spray:
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. You been busy spray painting things gold this week
Haven't seen you in a little while.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Oh, I'm here and there - still spend altogether too much time here.
Actually I've been spray-painting stuff black - that's my fave.

The grandiosity of this thread is interesting. Last week you were apologizing. Please don't be offended or take this personally, but Google 'grandiosity' for me - I'm worried about you.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Did I attack anyone on DU
Edited on Sun Jan-03-10 08:07 PM by AllentownJake
Or the President's supporters, I think I listed a few of my minor grievances....you know the basics. I could have gotten more detailed. However I'm reading an awesome Star Trek novel.

At least I knew what the definition of Bullshit and detector was.

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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. No, that's not it
I was expressing concern. Never mind.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Yes with flames, and sarcasm
The most awesome way to express concern.

I apologize for taking a team mentality. Doesn't mean I won't call things the way I see them.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. No, you are still missing the point
If you're going to take it personally (even though I tried to be polite), then carry on...
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Oh Hugh
I wasn't taking it personally, but if you are going to throw sarcasm and a flame my way, you know I'm going to poke back a little.

:rofl:
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Look, my first post was a funny jab, nothing you can't take
My second post was not sarcastic at all - your mood goes up and down so much I was concerned & playing internet psychologist ;)
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Someone hijacked my OP today
Edited on Sun Jan-03-10 08:41 PM by AllentownJake
For no fucking good reason, they agree with what I was saying. I've been in a bad mood on the internet since.

How the hell you get a thread locked saying don't team with Tea Baggers, is beyond me.

That being said, me thinking on major policy initiatives, I think a good deal of them are bullshit is nothing new. He does good with an appointment here and there, on other issues, he makes me do a face palm.

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
21. It's been rendered useless in recent years as a descriptive term
primarily by some who claim it.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Very true my friend
I'm no longer a progressive, I'm a bullshit detector,.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. And the term is very descriptive.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
27. So if there anything that is not bullshit?
Is there anything positive?
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. The small stuff he gets right from time to time
Big issues, at least to me personally, mostly bullshit.

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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
29. Why?
Why do you hate America?

They are just doing biz as its always done. 'Course this time we are in the deepest darkest hole evah.

Its cool to rant and rave. Really, its cool. It might actually make someone, somewhere feel a bit better. But it doesn't really solve anything. The hole we are in is quite insurmountable. But being we've always had the best government money can buy, I say let 'em roll with it and see what happens.

Meanwhile, have you seen the price of eggs recently?
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. No, don't really buy eggs often
But 10lb pork loins were 1.27 1b yesterday and today. Methinks the Grocery store ordered too much pork for the Dutch in the area. I've been operating a mini-butcher shop in my house.

50lb of pork in the Freezer.

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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Damn
I'd a bought pork belly futures had I known you were such a porker.

Pork: the other white meat. We don't do pork. Pork is too corporate, and the farms fuck up the land. I'm surprised a progressive like you does pork. <grin>
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
33. What the heck.. Bullshit Detector?.. honest to God, you have to be kidding me
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. I prefer to be called a bullshit detector
I feel it describes my political leanings pretty well.
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Sweetie I am detecting an out of sorts liberal, who has a huge chip on his shoulder..
What happened?
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Bullshit happened. nt
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Bull Hockey happens every day, every hour, in here every 10 minutes..
Now something has your Pennsylvania in a twist.. What happened? Spill the beans Jake.. :)
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. I could have been more detailed
but I think the OP has the highlights.

Cap and Trade isn't in there because thankfully, congress isn't taking that up this year, that would be even more bullshit disguised as progress.
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Well I think you are out in the weeds on this one.. I disagee with most of your op..
You are wanting it 100%, and it never is.. and if it is not, then everything we get is bull shit.. nah.. I could not disagree more..in fact I am feeling pretty damn good, and seeing lots of things turn in the right direction.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Can I have what you are smoking? nt.
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. I do not smoke.. or drink for that matter..
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #36
44. OVERWHELMING AMOUNTS OF BULLSHIT HAPPENED
say it like it IS, Jake
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #44
47. Smells like a cattle ranch nt.
Edited on Mon Jan-04-10 02:33 AM by AllentownJake
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
37. K&R
Another great Jake thread!
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
45. There's nothing wrong with the term "Progressives"..
The problem lies with those that call themselves "progressive". And we have many of them in the Congress, most good-intentioned people, I believe. The problem is that these "progressives" have been co-opted by the DLC and the "moderates" in the Party who believe the only way to get anything done is to compromise with the other side. The thought never entered their mind to let the other side compromise with them? So they debate out of weakness - never out of strength. They are led to believe that they are always the minority on every issue. On most issues, the majority in the polls would agree with the progressives and progressive issues. Perhaps, someday, they will have a leader?
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-04-10 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. Well no one appears interested in progress in the party right now
So we are left as bullshit detectors.
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