Is this a "Struggle between Left & Right" or Corporations vs: Working Class

[FreakinDJ]

Some thing I am hearing and seeing more and more every day is Leftys and RATpubliCONs agreeing that corporations have taken over and are destroying this country.

FAIR TRADE is going to be the mantra of the 2010 election cycle and the party that best proves it's devotion and allegiance to the Working Class is going to win this election cycle

[democraticinsurgent]

1. Good observation

I think that's more right than wrong. My mom is a Glenn Beck disciple and we haven't been able to have a rational discussion about politics for at least 10 years now.

However, the economic wreckage is starting to change her outlook a little. I tried changing the paradigm from Repub vs Dems to Corporate Interests vs. Middle/Working Class and she has a much easier time seeing that. Her credit card companies have been jerking her around too.

Dems had better get busy, though. They have a lot of work to do to distance themselves from Wall Street.

[FreakinDJ]

8. A resent debate on a Manufacturing Tech web site had

long time Ohio RATpubliCONs agreeing with Dems on this issue. Definite support to reinstate the Glass - Steagal Act as well as reverse the current trend of "Free Trade" from favoring imports over US Manufactured goods

I think the current economic crisis has voters ready and willing to vote by their wallet as opposed to some gas bag spewing dis-information.

[abelenkpe]

2. I could not agree more

As I mentioned yesterday: First person seen as winning one for the people and dealing a blow to corporate power will be considered a national hero. I certainly hope it is the dems who realize this and act on it.

[napi21]

3. I think it's really between the L&R. Although there may be some

agreement between them on Corps, you still have a LOT of Righties from the lower & middle class siding with the teabaggers & the corpratists.

[FreakinDJ]

16. Too easy to expose TeaBaggers as supporting Corporations

so ya - I think this issue could subvert the recent gains the RATpubliCONs have made in the HCR debate. It would also present FUX / Murdoc for the Corporate RAIDING ScumBag he is

Murdock, who Forbes estimates is worth $1.3 Billion, CEO Dole Foods, is a major Republican Campaign Fund raiser. 1988 hosted a $10,000 per person reception at his Bel Air manson, where the participants could rub elbows and be photographed with Ronald Reagan.

1982 Murdock takes over Cannon Mills - 24000 employees. Murdock terminated the pension plan for 23000 employees and removed $36.6 Million from the fund

[Land Shark]

4. Even Rasmussen Polls has fully 62% of Americans (or more) responding as "POPULIST", which means

they don't trust big business (or big government).

When the Dems align with big business, they align themselves out of whack with at least 62% of Americans.

[Downtown Hound]

5. It's always been about corporations vs. working class

It's just that the corporations have conned us into believing it's about something else.

[Don Caballero]

6. The Right are the corporations

They run them while we are the ones screwed.

[CoffeeCat]

7. While there are major ideaological differences...

...between left/right and conservative/liberal---the bottomless, vitriolic chasm that divides
the two sides has been manufactured by the corporatists and the neocons who have stolen our
democracy.

These criminals invented right-wing radio to divide us and to create a major diversion. If
a band of thugs can walk "We The People" into a huge argument--they'll be so busy fighting
with each other that they won't notice the Fascist stench that is engulfing their democracy.

That's exactly what has happened.

The real problem is that the politicians and the corporations have their own government and their
own system. Corporations donate money to the politicians and politicians return the favor with
pro-corporate legislation (or by blocking legislation that favors corporations). The end result
is that "We The People" no longer matter. In many cases, the legislation hurts us or kills us.

The healthcare bill is the most recent example of this. Do we really need to argue anymore that
this is happening--when they're doing it right in front of our faces?

They need us divided. They need us distracted. They need the country so fractured and broken--so
their crimes go unpunished. They've succeeded.

The question is...are we mature enough and enlightened enough to come together and work to fix this? Or
are we going to remain petulant children--ensnared in this little "But I hate those other guys!!!" mentality
that the corporatists have created for us?

It's the only way to defeat them, and it would take only a few months. We've got to all join forces,
or the entire country is lost. After we've taken back our democracy, we can all return to hating each
other--but for now--we need to be adults.

just my 2 cents...

[FreakinDJ]

10. The idiological arguement of Left and Right

The idiological arguement of Left and Right is merely Anesthesia for the Masses as the Wall St Bankers, Corporate Raiders, and WTO pick clean the bones of America's Working Class

[laughingliberal]

34. Yep! nt

[Land Shark]

11. Yup. Right v Left is a SIDESHOW in the circus (an important show but still to the side)

In the main ring, is the top/down takeover and usurpation of democracy that happens while we fight amongst ourselves on lesser, but still real, issues.

Again, there are real issues in Left v Right but they are just overshadowed by Top/Down, and media reporting practices turn essentially all of politics into a World Wide Wrestling style of circus politics.

It's only "class war" when we start to make a peep in terms of fighting back.

[FreakinDJ]

15. They had a interview on CNN with a book writer exposeing this

making that very same point

Any one know the name of the book

[laughingliberal]

35. +1 nt

[SandWalker1984]

20. Excellent post, coffeecat

We have some good friends who happen to be Republicans. They are finally getting what we've been telling them for a long time -- it is not a battle between left and right, or Democrat vs Republican -- it is a battle between US, the American working class, and THEM, the big corporate elites (the Goldman Sachs, AIG, etc) who want to destroy US in the name of profit and greed.

Some here understand this, some are still playing high school rah rah cheerleading games for "their" side.

Want to really scare the big corporate elites? JOIN FORCES WITH THE MIDDLE CLASS AMERICANS ON THE RIGHT AND GO AFTER THE ELITES. Take aware their existence as "people," their rights to donate to elections, their rights of free speech. (How they got away with taking a side note in a Supreme Court opinion and turn it into corporation = same rights as a person is beyond me.) Bring back anti-trust legislation with teeth.

Then, and only then, can we fix the other problems in our country.

[leftstreet]

32. +1

[truedelphi]

33. + 1 -- especially the last two paragraphs. n/t

[Double T]

9. Neither major political party has allegiance or loyalty to the masses of American workers.

The corporations and specifically the banks and MEGA MONOPOLISTIC corporations are in charge and it will take a complete financial collapse and revolution to straighten out the economic, financial and employment mess they have created. Any representation by either major political party that they are on the side of the masses of American workers is fraud, farce and folly.

[FreakinDJ]

12. Case in Point

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.

Thomas Jefferson, (Attributed)
3rd president of US (1743 - 1826)

[Double T]

21. TJ had it right.

See on the front lines of the revolution.

[Odin2005]

13. It has ALWAYS been about corporations versus the rest of us.

The current left-right narrative spewed on the MSM is mere kabuki theater.

[SoCalDem]

14. It's the same struggle mankind has always had.

Too few people "in charge" , running things & keeping all the wealth for themselves..at the expense & the discomfort of, the masses.. the peons..the serfs.. the slaves.. the underlings..the lower castes, classes..

We dress better, smell better & live better now, but the song is the same.

The problem we have now is that the poor are not quite as "poor" as they once were, and with tv so pervasive, they can see inside the window, en masse..not just one dirty nose pressed against the glass, attached to a bedraggled person who runs home to tell his kin, individually, how wonderfully the rich live.. Today, even the poorest African villager may have a satellite dish or a cell phone, and they can instantly see how the "others" are living.

[haele]

19. Everyone wants to be rich and in control. So to most, if they weren't lucky enough -

to either seize a rare opportunity (like Obama) or have the right Sperm Donor and Vagina combination (like the Shrub), they'll suck up to whomever has the luster of power in hopes they can get the crumbs of wealth and power.
Even then, there's only so many opportunities to advance to that level; those who really do have some combination of wealth and power at a high level strive to maintain their position by adopting one primary position - if "the club" gets too big, then natural forces - competition of ideas and focus - will eventually tear everyone down. It's like a big casino - despite the perception, there's really only so much imaginary wealth that can be faked without having to do real work. If the "upper class" don't want to risk losing their position in life, they have to convince the rest of us that they are somehow smarter than us, better than us, and deserve to be the Captains who decide who gets what in society.
As they still have to bring in new blood now and then (or risk inbreeding themselves out of existence), every once in a while, the economic door will be opened up to allow any of the general unwashed who "have enough of the right attitude" to be able to find a dangling bootstrap and clean up enough to make the class interview.

As most of us just want our families and communities to be comfortable and would be willing to work and make some sacrifices just for that comfort - not the right "attitude" to improve one's lot in life anymore. That's why it's mostly greedy assholes and sycophants that end up near the top of the corporate ladders. They're the ones that can be trusted to sell out the rest of society so they can have a bigger "sliver of pie".
Fearful and greedy people will rather worship Moloch the Devourer and call it Christ if they can get wealth and power over their neighbors than actually follow the Golden Rule of most creeds and ethos. Those people believe the Golden Rule is "He with the Gold makes the Rules" and "Do unto others as you would have done to you" is a rule for slaves and the gullible.

I'm cynical this morning. But I've met too many Randriods and Social Darwinists who actually think that just because they were "lucky" meant somehow that they were more special than others who weren't that lucky in life. You know, the ones who claim "No one gave me any special privileges" - when in reality, most of them used either their parent's money, other people's influence or hard work or even taxpayer's money to get to the point where they could schmooze their way into the good ol' boy's club lifestyle they find themselves in.

Haele

[FreakinDJ]

28. EXCELLENT POST +1000

[FormerDittoHead]

17. I'm sorry, but I have to say it's a class stuggle with the rich. - a rant.

I know a few people on this board have managed to gather a few nickles to rub together, because I still see people here arguing for regressive taxes (ie: "fair tax") along with generous allowances for inheritance transfer taxes (ie: "death taxes").

The fact is, however, that not only do the rich own an incredibly disproportionate amount of corporate wealth (stocks and bonds) but I think it's fair to say that the rich have a virtual monopoly on the *control* of corporations.

I know that Republicans have made 'liberal' a dirty word. They've also made a bad phrase of "class envy", as it echos Communism.

Yet Marx, like Darwin, got a lot of things right. Marx looked at history with a different perspective, not unlike Howard Zinn. Marx rejected the narratives of heroes of war fighting for freedom and instead looked upon our history as one of class struggle, and I think it's a valid one.

Now before I leave Marx I must note that, IMO, he got a lot WRONG (more than Darwin was in error) and his work has been used to justify dictatorships and class preferences under the guise of egalitarianism. I have no love for Marx and even less for those who have abused his intent.

I submit that the issue is not corporations, but who *CONTROLS* corporations. Rich families CONTROL corporations more than their actual ownership, which they've managed to diffuse into pension and mutual funds which do very little to exercise their power given their ownership.

The fact is that we have a stratum of very, very wealthy people in our country. The suggestion that "corporations" are somehow discrete from the rich is a joke.

Without corporations, the rich would find other ways to screw us over. Corporations are just their tool.

[FreakinDJ]

18. Wealthy hide behind the Corporate Mask of irresponsibility

Just how a former Railroad CEO, then sitting Supreme Court Justice give Corporations the same Rights as that of the Individual, for the Wealthy Elite to hide behind is a mystery to me.

Just how this decision has gone unchallenged for over 100 yrs isn't

[mdmc]

38. ditto

[Warren Stupidity]

22. Please provide evidence that Republicans are uttering anything anti-corporate at all.

Your 'ratpublicon' generic complaint is quite the opposite, that the center-right Obama administration is somehow dangerously socialistic/communistic/fascist/islamic etc. There is no anti-corporation rhetoric on the right outside of some way over on the libertarian end of the rightwing zoo, and that is a vanishingly small segment of the right and one that gets essentially zero media exposure, much like the entire left.


There may be attacks against the center-right Obama administration from both the left and the well funded lunatic teabag fundaloon right, but the content of those attacks is massively dissimilar.

[FreakinDJ]

23. read here

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php/video-globalisation-destroyed-argentine-195161.html

[Warren Stupidity]

25. I give up, what exactly does that discussion prove?

I do not see one person on that thread mixing both standard republican and anti-corporate rhetoric.

[FreakinDJ]

30. That is just it - and all from Rust Belt - Ohio

certainly 12 months ago you would have found 90% of those same folk espousing Rush Limpdick talking points as fast as their fingers could type

[Vidar]

24. K&R.

[anonymous171]

26. Jobs are going to be the most pressing issue in 2010, not trade.

[FreakinDJ]

27. Wake Up - Free Trade is the JOB KILLER

[anonymous171]

29. Of course. But what people want right now is JOBS.

And that will be what they demand. Abolishing free trade would be only part of the equation.

[FreakinDJ]

31. Thanks......

I am seeing the term FAIR TRADE popping up with a greater frequency every day. I hope the DEM leadership is able to recognize this and capitalize on this ground swell of sentiment - that or their doomed

It also provides an excellent opportunity to EASILY refute the FUX News talking points - Murdock indisputably is an old time Reaganomics Corporate Raider with the successful depletion of plan benefits of 10s of 1000s hard working Americans. No one disputes Murdock slants his News. Instantly folks will have reason to suspect his motives

This could be good things for the DEMs

[laughingliberal]

36. Rec nt

[mdmc]

37. The corporations own the politicians, so the fight is between the left and right

It seems pretty obvious that the investor class has defeated the working class. That fight ended back in 1981, perhaps prior..

[Jamastiene]

39. When that richest 1% reaches into our lives at such a personal level as they have been

recently, I would say it is definitely the poor and middle class finally railing against the long arm of the uber rich.

The best way I can describe it is to repeat what my step dad told me a couple years ago. He basically said the reason our economy is in the shitter is because the top 1% uber rich finally have all the money. Next, they'll craft legislation that reaches into our pockets and takes even the pocket change.

Once they have everything, they will turn around and blame us for the shit economy, cut our pay even more, and, in general, ration jobs and wages and services even more while working us even harder.

It seems as though he was right. I had hoped he was wrong. One good thing about him though; he never says, "I told you so." even when he was right. I guess he doesn't have to. I see it now.

[Greyhound]

40. It's always been a class war. It is the only distinction that matters and once

people figure out that they are utterly dependent on us while we would be better off without them, the rest of the distractions will fade into obscurity.

It will interesting to see if any candidates will be allowed to run on fair trade this cycle (other than the few that already have and can't be pushed out by the corporatists).

[TBF]

41. The rich love the "left v. right" thing - keeps people busy so they can continue

doing their thing. It has always been about class warfare, at least if you're working class (and know it, many are confused about what they really are).

[Better Believe It]

42. It's all about class

[Goldstein1984]

43. It's a class struggle

It's so obvious that I find myself questioning the judgment of those who don't see it.

Right/Left and Democrat/Republican are tactics used by the elite to keep the people divided and conquered.

[tomp]

44. generally, the rich align to the right and the poor align to the left....

...with some fudging in the middle for the media-confused and intellectually impaired.

[Tim01]

45. The corporations will lie about who is the friend of the middle class.

They will use the divide and conquer method. And they will pay the media to get their message across. And they will put their money behind someone who is on their side, but who can be sold as a friend to the working class.
And he will be elected.