Hugo Chavez Shuts down Radio &T.V Caracas

[Bo]

Source: The Gaurdian Unlimited

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) - Venezuelans marched Saturday amid heavy security in the opposition's largest show of support yet for a television station targeted by President Hugo Chavez, whom they accuse of suppressing freedom of speech and democratic rights.

Thousands of people turned out for the protest against Chavez's decision to remove Radio Caracas Television, or RCTV, the country's oldest private TV station, from the airwaves.


Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6577355,00.html

---

Power Corrupts and Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.

[Colobo]

1. He has a lot of fans over here... just because he is a lefty.

[John Q. Citizen]

5. At least Chavez tells us where he stands on the issues. I think that's part of it too.

People don't have to wonder....

[Matsubara]

35. He's also being mischaracterized as a Stalin/Hitler despot just because he's a lefty

Not saying he doesn't have his ugly side, but he enjoys massive popular support for a reason - he is seen as giving the working class there a much better break than they've seen in the past from previous righty despots.

I hope his plans work and Venezuela continues to prosper, hopefully with more freedoms in the future. Who knows, maybe the bourgeoisie who hate him so much now will eventually come to appreciate some of the cahnges he's made.

[John Q. Citizen]

52. Not likely they will appreciate the challenge to thier divine right to exploit..

[Selatius]

2. If FOX News called for a violent overthrow of Gore if he won in 2000, FOX News would not exist.

RCTV did something similar in 2002.

The airwaves down there in Venezuela, much like the airwaves up here, belong to the public commons. As such, corporations must pay a licensing fee to utilize that which is a public good. All networks that wish to utilize the airwaves have an obligation to serve the public good, and the airwaves are not to be used to enrich a few at the expense of the many.

What happened in April 2002 at RCTV during the military coup is a textbook case of using the airwaves to abuse the public good. In such a situation, the natural consequence is the revocation of their broadcast license, and the allotted spectrum devoted to RCTV should be given to a different corporation or given over to the workers at RCTV reorganized into a worker cooperative.

[hang a left]

66. My thoughts exactly

key words: privately owned

[yurbud]

77. If Fox News called for the violent overthrow of Bush, they'd all be dead or in Gitmo

[JDPriestly]

3. He does not know what democracy means.

Like Bush, he thinks he personifies what is best for his country. He doesn't. No one individual personifies what is best for his or her country.

[pretzel4gore]

7. he's not like bush....

anyway, he won a huge mandate and all this calling him a tyrant ignores the fact that Venezuelans have seen hundred of billions of wealth taken from them over hundreds of years by the upper class twittery, and under Chavez are saying 'No More!'- Venezuela should demand a retroactive fair price for every gallon of oil removed from the country BEFORE another gallon is let go....why should thieves' rights be honoured even after their crimes are discovered?

[Colobo]

12. So you support left wing authoritarianism?

[ProudDad]

18. He's not an "authoritarian"

Do you have unbiased proof he is?

No, didn't think so. It's just your opinion after hearing nothing but biased capitalist MSM reportage...

[Colobo]

19. Latin American politics are much more complex than "good guy" vs. "bad guy"

"Capitalists" vs. "socialists" and all that Manichaean crap many people believe over here.

When it comes to those issues, American media sources don't work. Watch Latin American TV, read Latin American newspapers, and talk to people from Latin America. Read books by Latin American intellectuals and learn our history.

Chavez reminds me of a left wing Juan Peron.

[Psephos]

32. "Chavez reminds me of a left-wing Juan Peron."

Aptly observed. As with your other posts in this thread.

You're right to decry the simple-minded Manichaeism that substitutes for understanding the complexity of Chavez.

[vincent_vega_lives]

65. Nope, a government system based on a personality

rather than a system based on law. Not like Bush at all. :thumbsdown:

[1932]

8. He says the exact opposite of that in The Revolution Will Not be Televised

just watch the last 10 minutes.

[LoZoccolo]

42. And Bush* often says the opposite of what he supports as well. n/t

[Greyhound]

4. I'm wondering if this was the station that facilitated the coup?

I know that at least one of the "privately owned" stations was one of the instigators and facilitators of the failed coup, maybe it was this one.

[TomInTib]

11. Here ya go...

http://www.dogpile.com/info.dogpl/search/web/venezuela%25252Ccoup%25252Cchavez%25252Crctv/1/-/1/-/-/-/1/-/-/-/1/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/417/top/-/-/-/1

[Colobo]

13. I bet Chavez won't mess with the government station

that is the mouthpiece of his government...

[ProudDad]

21. He has also

not touched the station in question, it's parent network nor any of the other 2 private networks who also were pro-coup.

RCTV was the most egregiously pro-coup and were denied renewal of their license to broadcast.

As someone else said, if Chavez were the authoritarian monster your delusions tell you he is, he would have not only closed all 3 private networks but would have shot their principles or like our pResident, shipped them off to Gitmo or worse.

That government station is the "mouthpiece" of the 80% of the Venezuelan People who support Sr. Chavez' policies.

[Greyhound]

43. Thanks, that's what I thought. I remember seeing the "Talking Points" type show

in that documentary about the coup. The idiots were actually bragging about how they blocked the story and then later how they edited what film they did show to make it look completely opposite from the reality.

Yes, I'm surprised any government would let them continue to broadcast for another six years. I am sure that none of our so-called friends in the region would tolerate that for a minute, and the executions would immediately follow.

[JackRiddler]

29. Yes, this was the station that tried to bring death squads to Venezuela.

Can you believe they were allowed to keep broadcasting their poison for another five years? And they have the nerve to complain about this treatment - from people they would have seen dead, had their evil plans of April 11th, 2002 succeeded.

[bluestateguy]

6. I no longer support this man

But if the Venezuelans do, then that is their choice.

[Show_Me _The_Truth]

9. Quack Quack Quack

[TomInTib]

10. Check this out. I did a little search...

http://www.dogpile.com/info.dogpl/search/web/venezuela%25252Ccoup%25252Cchavez%25252Crctv/1/-/1/-/-/-/1/-/-/-/1/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/417/top/-/-/-/1

[KingFlorez]

14. That station is suspected of backing a coup

That is why the station's license wasn't renewed. I would think any station in any country would lose their for trying to undermine an elected government.

[Colobo]

16. Some TV stations back Chavez, others want him down.

Free speech I say.

[KingFlorez]

17. Supporting a coup to overthrow a democratically elected government isn't free speech

In all countries, that is something that is not tolerated. The station rightfully lost it's license.

[Selatius]

23. That's because the airwaves are a public good, not a private commodity.

In order to use the airwaves, you have to pay a licensing fee to use that public good. By paying, you agree to use the airwaves to better the welfare of the people and to inform the people. They did none of that during the 2002 military coup. They lost their license as a result. In the US, the airwaves are also considered a public good.

If anybody such as CNN or FOX advocated the overthrow of, say, Al Gore if he won the presidency in 2000 (or perhaps 2008), then that station would also have its license revoked here in the US, and the senior executives would likely be prosecuted for treason.

The people who run the station now are still free to advocate the overthrow of a democratically elected government. They just cannot use the publicly owned airwaves to do so.

[LoZoccolo]

41. Neither is suspicion of support of a coup proof of it. n/t

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

44. There's video of the station's hosts and "journalists" congratulating themselves

and the generals for their well thought out plan after Mr Chavez is kidnapped. Look it up.

[LoZoccolo]

45. No there isn't. n/t

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

46. Sure, whatever you need to tell yourself. I guess I shouldn't believe my lying eyes and ears. n/t

[LoZoccolo]

47. Anyone can say what you just said.

Yet there is no video to back it up.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

48. Are you saying I made it up? n/t

[LoZoccolo]

49. Not necessarily.

You could have just heard it from someone else who also did not produce said video.

Or you could be completely twisting the meaning of what is said in the video.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

50. So in other words you have no idea what I'm talking about but are making up scenarios in you head.

[LoZoccolo]

51. No, I am approaching this scientifically.

A number of theories could be true in the absence of evidence favoring any particular one.

But I have no reason to believe this video exists, especially since the supporters of Chavez are supporters of a dictator who broadcasts hours of official state propaganda every week on a television show.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

57. No not so much. But tell you what. Don't take my word as far as what

is being said on this video. Find it. Get someone to translate if you can't find the subtitled version, then we can discuss the contents all you want. If not, I'll do you one better if you're in Chicago come over with a six pack we can pop the DVD I have and discuss it then. Hey bring the mrs., it's all good. I don't even care that you're calling me a liar. I'll even hook you up with a cigar. I'm thinking in person you might actually come across better than you do here. I know I do.

As far as the dictatorship goes. I've never heard of one in which the media interviews psychologists on the air to talk about the President's sexual fixation with Fidel Castro. Lie about the president resigning after being kidnapped openly call for the President's overthrow while they call him a murderer. How many dictator's send their representatives to opposition talk show to be yelled at and insulted by the hosts? This is just another day in Venezuelan corporate media which I've watched many times. Again don't take my word for it look it up see for yourself and then let's talk.

[LoZoccolo]

63. Sending me on a wild goose chase is not funny.

Making me look for a video that does not exist?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

70. It exists because I own it. I have a copy at home. Would you like me to mail it to you? n/t

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

71. You acting like a 5 year old is not funny either (OK maybe a little). Are you covering your ears and

sticking out your tongue as you post this stuff?

[Dorian Gray]

83. I'd love to see this video.

And I have many Spanish speaking friends who can help me translate so that I can understand without having to depend on my completely paltry Spanish.

The problem is, I've searched online for the video and can't find it. I've used both Google and Yahoo, and nada. So, since you are basing your argument on the existance of this video, I truly hope that you can link to it for us. As I have said, I'm really interested in watching it and making a judgement on this topic based on real proof. I've stated downthread that the Chavez topics truly make me uncomfortable because people tend to get so irrationally heated about this. I want to like him, but have a built in distrust for him based upon this very topic. So, if you can provide real proof showing that this television station was truly complicit in provoking a coup against Chavez, that would truly help me understand this situation and throw my support behind Chavez. But, I've never actually seen this video, and without doing so, I can't support him regarding this topic.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

84. I replied on #82 already. Look for "The Revolution Will not be Televised".

There should be an english subtitled version. This has been posted many times on DU. I also think the excerpt from the program I'm referring to has been posted by itself as well. I'm not looking for people to like or dislike this president but this station's coup involvement has been brought up many times on DU.

[Greyhound]

72. Yes, there is, I've seen it myself. It is included in the documentary of

the coup that, I believe, is still available on google video. It is a recording of the actual broadcast, and they were so confident they had won, they copped to the whole conspiracy, nearly broke their arms congratulating each other on their brilliance.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

73. Yeah sure whatever. Neener neener pfffffhhhhttt!

:evilgrin:

[ProudDad]

87. Yes, there is

I've seen it.

It's included in the documentary "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised".

Maybe you should get that jerking-knee problem checked out... :shrug:

The link is here Truth Seekers: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5832390545689805144

[Judi Lynn]

54. DU'er "Say_What" did everyone a large favor once by watching the video,

and noting the points she thinks the rational ones among us would like to see multiple times, for reference. This is a BIG help:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2668250#2669252
Post #82.

Her great notes:
Other highlights, move slider:

2:47--MSM in the US
26:00--Venezuelan media before the coup
26:55--Golpistas in Washington DC
32:00--Snipers on rooftops shooting people in crowd
35:00--Generals on TV calling for a coup
39:00--Chavez refuses to resign
43:16--Golpistas thank RCTV and Venevision
46:37--Dictator for a Day, Pedro Carmona, dissolving the National Assembly, Supreme Court, Attny General, and basically the entire government
48:33--Citizens shot, arrested, killed
49:10--US government officially BLAMES Chavez
53:00--1 million people at palace demanding Chavez return
54:57--Dictator for Day and the generals flee
55:20--Presidential guard retake palace
58:30--Chavez legitimate government restored
1:00--VP demands that Chavez life be preserved
1:00:03--Golpista military high command throws in the towel
1:03:56--On the island where Chavez is held, military calls about a US plane that just landed there
1:04:09--VP is sworn in to restore constitutionality
1:07:04--Chavez is returned to Miraflores Palace
1:07:31--Chavez addresses the nation on state TV and asks for calm

[Dorian Gray]

81. That sounds like definitive proof.

Can you link that video footage so that we can watch it. I'd like to see this so that I can make up my mind about the complicity of this particular television station in a completely failed coup against Chavez.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

82. I will send you the link this evening. the Barracuda filter at work doesn't

allow me to access youtube or Google Video.

[TomInTib]

26. They were in neck-deep. Check this out.

I done me some searchin....

http://www.dogpile.com/info.dogpl/search/web/venezuela%25252Ccoup%25252Cchavez%25252Crctv/1/-/1/-/-/-/1/-/-/-/1/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/417/top/-/-/-/1

[JackRiddler]

30. It is not suspected; it was involved in the planning and promotion of the coup of April 2002.

It's incredible they were allowed to keep broadcasting for another five years, isn't it?

[UTUSN]

15. Careful, you will be bashed and smashed!!!1 n/t

[leftchick]

20. "Venezuela's private television stations are owned by wealthy families

with serious financial stakes in defeating Chávez."


I can not believe people can not read beyond a fucking headline. :eyes:


Venezuela's Media Coup (RCTV)

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20030303/klein

In Venezuela, even color commentators are enlisted in the commercial media's open bid to oust the democratically elected government of Hugo Chávez. Andrés Izarra, a Venezuelan television journalist, says that the campaign has done so much violence to truthful information on the national airwaves that the four private TV stations have effectively forfeited their right to broadcast. "I think their licenses should be revoked," he says.

It's the sort of extreme pronouncement one has come to expect from Chávez, known for nicknaming the stations "the four horsemen of the apocalypse." Izarra, however, is harder to dismiss. A squeaky clean made-for-TV type, he worked as assignment editor in charge of Latin America at CNN en Español until he was hired as news production manager for Venezuela's highest-rated newscast, El Observador on RCTV.

On April 13, 2002, the day after business leader Pedro Carmona briefly seized power, Izarra quit that job under what he describes as "extreme emotional stress." Ever since, he has been sounding the alarm about the threat posed to democracy when the media decide to abandon journalism and pour all their persuasive powers into winning a war being waged over oil.

Venezuela's private television stations are owned by wealthy families with serious financial stakes in defeating Chávez. Venevisión, the most-watched network, is owned by Gustavo Cisneros, a mogul dubbed "the joint venture king" by the New York Post. The Cisneros Group has partnered with many top US brands--from AOL and Coca-Cola to Pizza Hut and Playboy--becoming a gatekeeper to the Latin American market.

[ProudDad]

22. Sounds safer to do a demo in Caracas than in Seattle or Miami

"Chavez and his supporters, however, say the measure is justified. They accuse RCTV and the country's opposition-aligned private media of supporting the 2002 coup against Chavez by broadcasting cartoons and movies instead of street protests that aided his return to power.

Hundreds of police, including some in riot gear, were deployed across downtown Caracas to prevent any potential clashes. There were no reports of violence and the protesters reached their destination without confrontations."

[Selatius]

24. RCTV supported violent coup against Chavez in 2002 according to one of its former journalists

Izarra says he received clear instructions: "No information on Chávez, his followers, his ministers, and all others that could in any way be related to him." He watched with horror as his bosses actively suppressed breaking news. Izarra says that on the day of the coup, RCTV had a report from a US affiliate that Chávez had not resigned but had been kidnapped and jailed. It didn't make the news. Mexico, Argentina and France condemned the coup and refused to recognize the new government. RCTV knew but didn't tell.

When Chávez finally returned to the Miraflores Palace, the stations gave up on covering the news entirely. On one of the most important days in Venezuela's history, they aired Pretty Woman and Tom & Jerry cartoons. "We had a reporter in Miraflores and knew that it had been retaken by the Chávistas," Izarra says. " the information blackout stood. That's when it was enough for me, and I decided to leave."

The situation hasn't improved. During the recently ended strike organized by the oil industry, the television stations broadcast an average of 700 pro-strike advertisements every day, according to government estimates. It's in this context that Chávez has decided to go after the TV stations in earnest, not just with fiery rhetoric but with an investigation into violations of broadcast standards and a new set of regulations. "Don't be surprised if we start shutting down television stations," he said at the end of January.

The threat has sparked a flurry of condemnations from the Committee to Protect Journalists and Reporters Without Borders. And there is reason for concern: The media war in Venezuela is bloody, with attacks on both pro- and anti-Chávez media outlets. But attempts to regulate the media aren't an "attack on press freedom," as CPJ has claimed--quite the opposite.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20030303/klein

If you use the airwaves in the US to advocate for the violent overthrow of a democratically elected government, try to see how long you last before the FCC revokes your broadcasting license.

[murloc]

25. I'll have to ask my Venezuela friend/coworker about it

I'm curious what he thinks.

He moved here shortly after Chavez took power, although I don't think it was because of Chavez

He doesnt talk politics much, if ever. He's only said two political things, he thinks Bush is a nut and he doesnt like chavez either.

[Colobo]

27. Most of my Venezuelan acquaintances hate both Bush and Chavez

and I think is a very smart position.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MonkeyFunk]

34. On what possible grounds would you

prevent somebody from owning more than one newspaper?!

God, leftist authoritarians scare me.

[JackRiddler]

36. Boo!

I should have been clearer. The law in the US was that you couldn't own a major newspaper and a broadcast station in the same market. Was that left authoritarianism? This was changed to allow Ruppert Murdoch to own the New York Post and FOX simultaneously. Are we more free now?

[MonkeyFunk]

37. That's an entirely different proposition

the "public" airwaves are the only excuse government has for regulating any such area. Owning multiple newspapers doesn't concern the government one bit.

So I guess we agree on the right of the government to control one, but not the other.

[JackRiddler]

40. Yes.

Murdoch intentionally runs the NY Post at a loss so as to maintain a propaganda organ in New York. In the end, a real newspaper that has actually made profit in the same period, Newsday, is almost surely one day going to go out of business (it's been on death watch and cutting news staff for many years).

Moon has lost a billion dollars on the Washington Times so as to maintain a propaganda organ in DC.

I don't know see a way to regulate this kind of behavior but I would not favor regulations pertaining to newspapers, no. I didn't mean that, sorry.

Perhaps we should be addressing how to deal with billionaires and their agendas?

[nolabels]

38. Is that tongue and cheek?

Almost all forms of ownership or absolute central control over organizations makes for corruption or malfeasance. Pluralism, democracy and joint ownership are not perfect but at least they keep things in check

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/index.html

[MonkeyFunk]

39. tongue in cheek?

are YOU kidding me?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

I repeat - leftist authoritarians scare the fuck outta me.

[Marr]

55. We've had regulations against owning multiple media outlets in single market here.

We still do. This is hardly a left-wing authoritarian state.

[MonkeyFunk]

56. No

but it would be if people who don't even understand the first amendment ever got into power.

This sub-discussion is about owning newspapers, and the desire of SOME to control that.

The government has NO role in deciding ANYTHING about newspapers. Period.

[High Plains]

59. You might want to look over your other shoulder.

I don't think we have to worry about left authoritarianism here; it's coming from the other side.

Now, if you're a Venezuelan rightist, that's a different story.

[MonkeyFunk]

64. When people advocate

the entirely unconstitutional measure of having government control over who can own US newspapers, it's an authoritarian position.

I'm not saying we ARE living in a leftist authoritarian system - I'm saying we WOULD live in one if some people here had their way.

[nolabels]

67. I was merely trying to point out ALL is an eclipse

I have a hard time dealing with absolutes in anything. Left and Right, correct and wrong or just about anything that elicits a rally cry is code to the instinctive.

The First Amendment are nice words but it is quite obvious the rules are often followed only when convenient for those in charge. A five to four ruling against womens rights in favor of religion is just most recent glaring example. Please tell why this thing called the Catholic Church can harbor pedophiles and have laws enforced for womens individual sexual rights and only have a smaller fraction of the population as a part the whole considered it followers. Those are all things done under authoritarian. An authoritarian considered right in it's nature or at least in rally cry.

The laugh is what the right considers left is often something they become sometime later. Being a follower of nothing mostly it makes more sense for me to look at the merits of something. A Hugo is only reaction to the things that followed before. A bunch of fools would be better off if they let things be as they are but knowing human characteristics i am sure they won't. Hugo is now the thorn the festers. The more the multi-nationals and their allies in the US government opposes him the stronger he becomes. Just like in Iran and other parts of the ME, the oligarchy has become their own worst enemy when comes to matters of outside influence.

[ProudDad]

88. Then it's a damn good thing

that they are figments of your vivid imagination and not present in real life...

[Seen the light]

62. lol nt

[Checkstub]

31. Viva Chavez!

This statement proves Venezuela isn't a dictatorship: Thousands of people turned out for the protest against Chavez's decision to remove Radio Caracas Television, or RCTV, the country's oldest private TV station, from the airwaves.

[robcon]

33. It certasinbly IS a dictatorship.

One of the prime definitions of dictator: ruling by decree, and shutting down opposition press.

[treestar]

53. But if they advocate violent overthrow that is not opposition press

Apparently that would happen here, too, if a station called for a violent overthrow of the government.

[JackRiddler]

69. This is not even relevant anymore.

They did not just support or call for, but they PARTICIPATED in a violent overthrow of a democratically elected, legitimate government.

They LOST.

And they were allowed to keep broadcasting. That alone is incredible - it's inconceivable in the US.

Now, five years later, their license is being pulled. That's all. They are free to set up their soapbox elsewhere, just not on the air.

This is a procedural comeuppance, very gentle treatment for a criminal enterprise.

[Greyhound]

76. a person exercising absolute power, esp. a ruler who has absolute, unrestricted control in a

government without hereditary succession. - Random House Unabridged Dictionary © 2006

Sorry, much as you would like it, Chavez does not meet the definition. He does not have absolute, unrestricted control, nor does he rule by decree. In fact the license was not even revoked, it is simply not being renewed for cause. Another organization will be granted the license, per their government's procedure.

He has meticulously stayed well within Venezuela's Constitution.

[ProudDad]

89. So not renewing ONE television station's license,

the license for the major coup plotter's stations, is now considered by you neo-cons as "shutting down opposition press"???

[Dave From Canada]

60. Don't worry, I'm sure he'll get to a decree that puts an end to any public demonstrations.

How far does he have to go before people stop supporting this dictator? Bush probably dreams of being able to do what Chavez gets away with!

[Judi Lynn]

61. You should provide evidence for your claims. If you have information leading

to your "dictator" claim, don't save it, go ahead and post it so DU'ers can gain from your knowledge.

It would be important to share what Chavez is "getting away with," as well. We DO know he doesn't fund American opposition to _Bush with the taxes of Venenezuelan taxpayers, and he doesn't bring American opposition members to Caracas to confer with his cabinet members, as did/does _Bush.

[Greyhound]

78. Please see reply #76.

Chavez is not a dictator. He may do things that you don't like, he may do things that I don't like, but since neither of us is Venezuelan that is irrelevant, the Venezuelans overwhelmingly support him, and your charges are simply incorrect.

[Forkboy]

58. Where's Bo?

It's almost like some kind of hit and run post by someone who really doesn't like Chavez.I'd hate to think any DUers would do that though.

[devilgrrl]

68. bugga bugga bugga Hugo Chavez He Scary He Bad He Evil He the Devil!!!!!!

:scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared:

[Dave From Canada]

74. Strawman. No one is saying that he's the devil.

[devilgrrl]

75. They're saying that he's a "Strongman dictator" that everyone should fear.

and I'm not buying it.

[yurbud]

79. I don't think this anti-Chavez crap is sticking. People look at him, look at our leaders...

and think "Damn, even if he's faking it, he does a better job of caring about his people than our corporate whores in DC."

[Dorian Gray]

80. Chavez

topics always make me uncomfotable. I want to like him because of his leftist leanings, but I don't fully trust him. Then there are people so vehemently pro-Chavez, unable to see that some of his actions (his allying with Ahmadinejad and his treatment of the press in his country) might make many Americans uncomfortable. I'm certainly not a right wing apologist, but this type of action is what keeps many of us American liberals from fully embracing. He's walking a thin line, teetering close to despotic behavior in shutting down the press that doesn't agree with him and his policies. It is a slippery slope, and it's not one that I'd want to trudge up.

[ProudDad]

90. Chavez would be the first to say

"don't trust me, trust what I do."

That's the difference between him and most other world "leaders".

Chavez is at the head of a great parade in Venezuela, a parade that includes 80% of the People.

-----

On Edit:

Please don't react to the ravings of the knee-jerk pro-capitalist, Chavez haters on this board.

The Government of Venezuela did not renew the BROADCAST LICENSE that was previously held by the major corporate coup plotter. Completely legal. Not by Decree but under the doctrine that the airwaves belong to the People and this corporation tried to overthrow the government elected by the People.

If Chavez was actually sending out the troops to close down newspapers and tv stations, I'd be severely disappointed and would have to withdraw my support for what he's trying to do for the people of his country. But he's not.

-----------

But HERE'S what you should be worried about and it's an authoritarian would-be dictatorship right here at home. The U.S. Government IS taking steps that will close down smaller independent publishers:

Time Warner's Postal Rate Attack on Independent Publishers
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/4/17/17525/5518

Small Publications Face Crippling Postal Hike -- Based on Time Warner Recommendation
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/24/1446244

New Postal Rates Threaten Future of Small Magazines
http://www.freepress.net/news/22534

Stamp our Rate Hikes
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/actnow?bid=4&pid=187140

[slipslidingaway]

85. Hugo Chávez was re-elected with 62.87% of the votes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_presidential_election,_2006



Telecom Minister: New Channel Will Be First True Public TV in Venezuela

http://www.handsoffvenezuela.org/rctv_licence_venezuela.htm


"Chacón also announced that next year the government will launch a public service radio channel, which would be organized along the same lines as the new TV channel. Contradicting opposition claims, Chacón emphasized that the Venezuelan state controls not even 10% of the broadcast wavelength spectrum.

As a whole, according to Chacón, Venezuela's media landscape has diversified and democratized a lot in the course of the Chavez presidency, so that TV channels have increased from 30 to 78 since 1999 and the number of FM radio broadcasters has increased from 368 to 617.

The expiration of the broadcast license of the oppositional TV channel RCTV has caused opposition supporters to argue that freedom of speech is being limited in Venezuela. Chavez government officials, such as Chacón, argue, though, that the non-renewal of the station's license is a prerogative of the government. According to Venezuelan law it is under no obligation to renew the license, whose 20-year term expires this May 27th. On earlier occasions Chacón said that RCTV is free to continue broadcasting via satellite and/or cable."



http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/11/1432233

"AMY GOODMAN: Can you explain what the May 1 deadline is and what President Chavez's plans are for oil in Venezuela?....


BERNARDO ALVAREZ HERRERA: .....So, on the one hand, in that law we reaffirm which has been a historical principle of Venezuela that the government should and the state should control the natural resources and we have to have the majority. But also, we gave chances to private capital, national and international, to participate, and this is what we have been doing. First, we changed the service contract, and now we are taking the majority in the heavy oil projects in the Faja. We have been talking to the companies. We have been -- me, personally -- have been talking to all of them. They have to decide whether they should stay or not. We hope that most of them will stay, if not all, because we are giving them the chance to access the Venezuelan reserves. So this May 1 is the last -- let's say the last phase of a policy of recovering the control of natural resources in Venezuela that we started in the year 2000.

AMY GOODMAN: Looking at ExxonMobil, the New York Times piece goes on to, well, first quote Michael Economides, an oil consultant in Houston, who said, “We are on a collision course with Chavez over oil.” He compared Chavez’s populist appeal in Latin America with the pan-Arabism of Colonel Muammar el-Qaddafi of Libya two decades ago, saying, “Chavez poses a much bigger threat to America’s energy security than Saddam Hussein ever did.”

[slipslidingaway]

86. Another thread on the same topic.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=730502&mesg_id=730502

[doublethink]

91. Good for him, now can we shut down Faux News here? n.t.

[ProudDad]

92. faux news is the house organ

for the repuke party. The bushies ain't gonna' shut it down.


What HAS been done is public support for OUR public media has been decimated by the repukes over the last 13 years. Don't you remember ken tomlinson?

Political Interference at the CPB:
http://www.freepress.net/publicbroadcasting/=tomlinson

And the rest of the repuke authoritarian dictatorship:

Public Broadcasting Targeted By House
Panel Seeks to End CPB's Funding Within 2 Years
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/09/AR2005060902283.html


Now that's something to be afraid of not Hugo Chavez not renewing the broadcast license for coup plotters.

[doublethink]

93. ......

:thumbsup:

[ProudDad]

94. Link to "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised"

The link is here Truth Seekers:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5832390545689805144

[doublethink]

95. Thanks for posting that ......

A MUST SEE BY ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE HOW OUR MEDIA HERE AT HOME COULD DO THE SAME THING HERE. Among other things of course. Peace. :smoke: