So the pubic option is dead...

[nadinbrzezinski]

well then I hope the dems enjoy the minority again... not that having a majority makes any tinker damn of a difference...

Yes, I am disgusted, but not surprised. When you work for the corporations and not the people....

By the way, what is the term I am looking for? Something 'bout corporations and state and interests? Oh yes FASCISM....

Try to put lipstick on that pig DLCers...

[tabatha]

1. Nope, it is not.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Should I quote Benito Mussolini for ya?

And you think that all forms of fascism include boots and thugs?

Of course we can call it the less loaded term of inverted Authoritarianism...

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Oh this is Fascism, as defined by Mussolini, (and I guess he should have a clue)

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power"

And this is why I said this, that the US Congress, no matter what party controls it, is bought and paid by the corporations and enhances the power of corporations... no thugs needed... or black shirts.

[juno jones]

53. Mussolini had no problem playing along with the Catholic Bishops either

IIRC.

[rhett o rick]

26. That is such a compelling argument. nt

[Oregone]

2. A real public option was dead for a long time

Why does everyone notice when they scrape roadkill off the pavement? If they can trade in the carcass for expansion of successful, existing socialistic insurance institutions, sounds good to me. As alwaysd though, the devil is in the details

[tandot]

4. I am not sure about the "pubic option" but the public option is not

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7184645

[Pirate Smile]

5. I amazed at smart people being so fucking short sighted to start saying this crap when it has been

less then a year since we had a Republican in the WH and only three years since took over control of the Congress. People have memories as long as a gnat with just as much perspective. Pathetic.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Acually I have been saying the US took on increasintly fascistic tendencies

starting with ... ready for this RONALD REAGAN...

That is when it became a tad obvious... it is the last 20 years or so that it is undeniable. It does not matter what the people want, you got money? and you are part of the corporate structure, sure whatever. You the people want something? Not really.

Bush just made it so obvious that it was hard to deny any longer

It is also part and parcel of an Empire.

[demosincebirth]

15. Oh no, the sky's falling!!!

I agree

[alfredo]

6. Reuters reported Reid as saying it is not dead.

[mvd]

10. But is it a trigger or an actual public option?

Do you know?

[alfredo]

28. Not yet. I decided the best course was to turn off the TV and

pour a shot of Rye.

[jgraz]

52. Mmmm.... Rye.

Who needs health insurance when you have Black Maple Hill?

[alfredo]

54. That's a new one on me. I usually drink Eagle Rare, but

Rye has been my focus lately. Jim Beam Rye hits that price/quality mark just right.

I will have to look for that brand. I live in Lexington Ky. I should know all Bourbon brands.

I got to taste a pre release bottle of Blanton's. Along with the bottle was a half pound of Godiva chocolate. I was sick as a dog the next morning, but no regrets.

[jgraz]

58. Never tried it, but it's on my list.

Congrats on the Blanton's, tho. That's some wonderful whiskey.

Here's a review of BMH for ya: http://ohgo.sh/archive/rittenhouse-and-black-maple-hill-rye-whiskey-review

[alfredo]

60. Try Wild Turkey Rye. It's 101 proof, but won't hurt you.

much


Svedka Vodka is good,

12 Ouzo is very good too. So is Metaxa Ouzo

Stay away from Canadian Ryes

[jgraz]

61. I'm sure it won't. I usually drink Booker's. ;)

[alfredo]

65. I tend to stay with Bourbon Trace brands. They seem good

across the brand. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_Trace_Distillery

It's downstream from where Woodford Reserve is distilled.

[jgraz]

67. Wow, that's a pretty good crowd.

Though I've never liked Woodford Reserve -- the taste always struck me as too flat and grassy. I should try it again now that I'm more used to high-rye blends. Maybe my tastes have changed.

[alfredo]

68. Woodford Reserve is OK. I got one corky bottle and haven't

had it since. Knob Creek is worthy. Wl Weller Antique is very good.

[Thickasabrick]

39. It is state non-profits formed by private insurance companies. If the

insurance companies do not step up to the plate, only then will a trigger kick in and a national non-profit would be formed. That's the latest update I got off of TPM.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. And at this point I don't believe any of them

they will KILL IT, never mind that it is so weak it is almost a joke.

:Let me see, the American people want something like this, on a 70s range, but we cannot get it with a 60 person majority? Okey dokey.

[alfredo]

27. The Democrats have never been known to do as the

leadership demanded. It's maddening but the Dems have always been a gathering of coalitions under the Democratic umbrella.

Party unity is an oxymoron.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. Oh I know, we have a party that is less ahem organized than a sack of cats

on the way to the river. But that is well known by the fans of ahem politics, not the base.

Why this will not be good for them darn cute elections in 2010.

And yes Will Rogers put it well.

I am not a member of an organized party, that is why I am a democrat, or words to that effect.

[alfredo]

34. There's one new thing that goes along with the Medicare

changes that seems to be what I've been calling for: opening the FEHB to all.

I've learned to keep the anger down enough that rational thought is impaired. Part of it is accepting the democratic nature of the Democratic party.


The FEHB is the Federal Employee Health Benefit plan. As a retired postal worker I have it. The proposed plan is non profit.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/12/08/health.care/index.html

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. I know the details but splaining this to my neighbors

oy...

And I will not hold any hope that something good is coming out of this UNTIL this is signed and finalized... that will happen... it is what comes at the end of the sausage.

That said, my statement still stands. This is fascism... and it is high time to admit it.

[alfredo]

37. Public financing would cut the Robber Barons out of the

picture. It would take away a legal form of bribery.

Public financing would shift the balance of power from the rich to us.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. And getting there wil be next to impossible without a multigeneratinal

commitment. And the case before the USSC will absolutely ensure that the more money you got the more influence you got... that case is supposed to be decided this year.

[alfredo]

41. Just got to keep pushing.

I'm going to bed. Sleepy

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. Night, and thanks for a fun thread

[alfredo]

56. Yeah. It's been an emotional roller coaster.

[NoUsername]

36. It's nothing more than a facade

so they can continue the pretense of supporting the"working class" while they continue so screw the working class by pretending they have to "work in a bipartisan fashion" to pass laws that both parties will agree to. Gee, when the Republicans are in power, you never hear those same "bipartisanship" concerns. And it isn't because the Republicans are "evil" and the Dems are "good." It's because they both answer to the same constituents.

And you and I aren't included in that group. Never have been. Never will be. Unless of course you're one of the top .01 percenters.

[alfredo]

31. From CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/12/08/health.care/index.html


Two Democratic sources said that the deal includes proposals to replace the public option by creating a not-for-profit private insurance option overseen by the federal Office of Personnel Management, much like the current health plan for federal workers, and another allowing people 55 and older to buy into Medicare coverage that currently is available to those 65 and older.

[tridim]

7. The only thing that's dead is patience.

[Mind_your_head]

8. No, the public option is NOT DEAD......not AT ALL

'some' people (*they*) want you to think that it is dead....But, the public option is alive and very much in play.

Keep working/fighting for it!!!!

Peace (and the Public Option),
M_Y_H

[SOS]

59. From the NYT, front page, 12/9/09:

WASHINGTON — The Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, said Tuesday night that he and a group of 10 Democratic senators had reached “a broad agreement” to resolve a dispute over a proposed government-run health insurance plan, which has posed the biggest obstacle to passage of sweeping health care legislation.

Mr. Reid refused to provide details. Other senators said the tentative agreement would sideline but not kill the “public option” championed by President Obama and liberal Democrats in Congress.

Under the agreement, people ages 55 to 64 could “buy in” to Medicare. And a federal agency, the Office of Personnel Management, would negotiate with insurance companies to offer national health benefit plans, similar to those offered to federal employees, including members of Congress.

If these private plans did not meet certain goals for making affordable coverage available to all Americans, Senate Democratic aides said, then the government itself would offer a new insurance plan, somewhat like the “public option”.

It's dead for all practical purposes.

[alfredo]

66. That age group is the one the insurance company hates.

They are the ones who get sick and lower their profits. They are the ones that lose jobs long term. Who would hire a 55 year old? Not many would.


Insurance companies will not play fair, will not lower prices. They will not reach those goals. The trigger needs to be very punitive. If the goals aren't reached, either Medicare or the FEHB will be opened to all. Better yet, a corporate death sentence by mean of single payer.

[kid a]

12. Ba ba ba bird bird bird, bird bird's the word!

:crazy: :eyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WNrx2jq184

[QC]

13. There will be something called a public option in the final bill.

Whether it is actually meaningful is a whole other question, of course.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. And the DLCers will excuse all for the sake of the TEAM

Problem is I don't think those who are outside of the this is just a fucking game will either stay home or vote for SOMEBODY ELSE in 2010... and you know what? I can't blame them.

[QC]

20. I worry that a lot of the people who were just brought into politics

will be more or less permanently disillusioned by this and will check out. Those of us who have followed politics for a while know that pols have to be forced to do the right thing, but the new, excited people we saw getting involved last time are in for a rude awakening.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. And why we need MOVEMENTS not party support

it is MOVEMENTS that force that change and can take a generation.

I know people already who are staying home in 2010... no way they are gonna vote for EITHER party...

Why I said this, enjoy the minority, because they are pissing on that damn base.

[QC]

22. Exactly. n/t

[treestar]

63. Yeah, because the other team is evil

And would have done nothing at all. Let the "market take care of it."

[HughMoran]

16. Damn, and I was hoping the era of free-love was returning

No lipstick on that pubic option :D

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. There ya go

by the way the DLC team is strong tonight.

[BP2]

18. Yep, we have the majority

and still can't get the public option.

I just don't get it ;(

[lib2DaBone]

23. Don't worry ..Obama will save us.. he's only playing chess....

AP sources: Dems reach deal to drop gov't-run plan

WASHINGTON — After days of secret talks, Senate Democrats tentatively agreed Tuesday night to drop a full-blown government-run insurance option from sweeping health care legislation, several officials said, a concession to party moderates whose votes are critical to passage of President Barack Obama's top domestic priority.

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20091208/US.Health.Care.Overhaul/

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. Hi level multidimensional chess mind you

:hi:

I wish he were a little more like FDR or LBJ... and could crack a few whips. I wonder if either he has no clue how to do that, (and the On the Job training sucks) or he does not want to.

[timeforpeace]

24. Proving once again that denial is definitely not just a river in that one place, over there.

[rhett o rick]

25. Majority/minority are a joke. This is a class friggin war. It isnt between the Dems and the

republicants. it's between the corporatists and the rest of us. Many Democrats are corporatists so why oh why do we keep talking like the Democrats are in favor of helping the peons?

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. You know that, I know that

but many round these parts don't get it.

It is a class war and we are ahem getting our nads kicked.

It hurts, but people are still in denial. I used the word fascism since it applies, but the far less loaded inverted authoritarianism also applies... but people are ahem still in denial... and why we need MOVEMENTS not parties. The push historically has come from OUTSIDE both parties (whatever their name is at the moment)

[neshanic still]

33. True words.

[dysfunctional press]

40. to the congressional dems- being voted out of office means it's time to start a lobbying career...

and cash in.

[mullard12ax7]

43. K&R, the American majority wants the public option

Meanwhile, the majority of us are sold out again, by scumbag liars, war criminal supporters, torturers and election riggers. Still, the apologists don't stop even here as the parade of propaganda continues unabated.

[Ildem09]

44. The party of FDR, and Ted Kennedy is on life support!

Seriously the DLC has watered down the party so much that it makes me laugh that Bernie Sanders would fit in perfectly with the Democratic party of 1930-1992, But alas those halcyon days are over.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BeHereNow]

45. Any one surprised? Not me.

Those useless fucks.

BHN

[Double T]

46. Time has come to fire EVERY SINGLE MEMBER of the 'do nothing congress'.

The dnc is a disgrace.

[BeHereNow]

47. YES! Fire their asses! YESTERDAY!

Wait, they don't work for us, so how do we fire them?
Elections are all rigged, so now what?
Clearly, no on is allowed in office unless
they serve the corporate BEASTS.

BHN:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[regnaD kciN]

49. Yeah! Let's fire Bernie Sanders, and Barbara Boxer, and Dennis Kucinich, and...

The problem isn't "EVERY SINGLE MEMBER," it's the handful of "centrist" DINO (particularly) Senators who, because of the nature of legislative rules, can serve as a roadblock to anything unless they get their way.

And I'm talking about people like Lieberman, Lincoln, Nelson (both of them), Landrieu, Conrad, Baucus, etc. People who mean that, although the Senate may be 60-40 Democratic, it is really about 52-48 moderate/progressive-conservative...and in need of 60 votes to make big changes.

It's about a small number of supposed-Democrats who are collaborating with the Republicans to hold our plans hostage to their whims. Replacing them would go a long way toward achieving our goals. But a "throw them all out" approach will do far more harm than good.

[Double T]

50. The dnc needs to get the message and no one on either side or the middle of the isle can be spared.

[Bushknew]

51. Dems play the good cop Repugs play the bad cop but the play on the same team....

Big corporations.

[Echo In Light]

55. Profit$ Over People = Sicko Empire

[dionysus]

57. yeah, because wishing republican will win to spite them is so awesome.

:eyes:

[treestar]

62. I've been hearing that since August

Yet it always seems to raise its head again.

[maryf]

64. Long live singlepayer

The only true public option, any bill that includes private insurance carriers is not an option in my book.