What we are witnessing with the Democratic and the Republican parties is a corporate merger.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

having lived through some, I think I recognize the signs.

Much holdover of key management. No radical rocking of policy, more continuance of same rather than change. Completely unnecessary "bi-partisan" appointments despite electoral wishes/mandates.

The hard-core remnants of both parties will be spun off as specialty shops - "Teabaggers" on one side "Old-fashioned Liberals" on the other. Makes for good theater. The stances of the candidates of the two parties will become increasingly difficult to differentiate. The bare minimum legislatively will be passed by either/both parties and they will blame the other for obstructionism. They will all grant each other plausible deniability for why we end up with the crap legislation we will get for time immemorial.


Notice how well this kabuki is working in the sham we have going on for what passes for "Healthcare Reform". We will get the barest, crappiest reform possible, in fact a great victory for profit healthcare, but it will be framed as a Herculean struggle to get the populace some crumbs - that we will celebrate and be grateful for.

My continuing to proudly declare myself a Democrat will have as much credance as crowing over the merits of a Mercury over a Ford - different finishes, same car.

[NYC_SKP]

1. I noticed it in the 1990's.

I was in shock reading about how many on both sides supported NAFTA, which I saw as an American Industry and Union KILLER.

:patriot:

[newscott]

2. I call it business as usual

Been that way for a LONG time.

There are some things Nader is right about.

[rhett o rick]

18. Ahhhhhhhhhhhh, you said the n-word. nt

[pocoloco]

68. Many things!

[Gnome Sane]

89. IT'S WAAARRR.....!!!

Have any of you guys read 'Banana Republicans'?? Or, 'Dude, Where's My Country?' or any of Hunter Thompson's work...What, are you kidding me..??? Of course it's a Corporatocracy.... hedged by a plutocratic elite, who got the ball rolling a while back...(see: WWI/WWII).

We've been dumbed down by our own avarice, greed and mendacity...(props to T. Williams)...our iPods, instant-nano-second attention spans, coveting all manner of shit to 'consume'...Do you think that these Illuminati are stupid?? No, Crazy...certainly not stupid...kinda like Hannibal Lechter...

To quote the Prophet "Joker"...

"...You see, their morals, their code, it’s a bad joke. Dropped at the first sign of trouble. They’re only as good as the world allows them to be. I’ll show you. When the chips are down, these… these civilized people, they’ll eat each other. See, I’m not a monster. I’m just ahead of the curve..."

Not nihilism...The Deal.

Nano-Kharma at work.

[druidity33]

102. Welcome to DU!

Good to have anyone here who is willing to quote The Joker.

:hi:

[Gnome Sane]

109. Thanks...A sad commentary, but true, I'm afraid.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

3. I disagree, but they are mutually sliding into severe decline

Look at Canada for a cautionary tale of what happens when the two dominant political parties in a country cease to function, where neither the Liberal or Conservative parties are capable of forming a government and where no third party can mount a credible campaign.

[liberation]

77. I take representative democracies are a mystery to some of you

What exactly is wrong with the Canadian system?

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

90. you mean other than the failure of the two largest political parties?

Are you under the impression the NDP is going to some how fill the power vacuum?

[madrchsod]

4. dupe--delete-

[madrchsod]

5. neo liberals and neo conservatives...yuck

[Stinky The Clown]

6. It really saddens me .... but I agree with you.

Not about you. That we agree. About this.

[AlinPA]

7. I see the two parties at war with each other with zero cooperation. At this point,

the republicans are totally opposed to everything that the Democrats are trying to legislate. Sen. Hatch has even declared a holy war. Nearly all civility is gone.

[anonymous171]

17. Civility is bad. War is good.

This is a war, make no mistake.

[waiting for hope]

22. That's the whole point - to keep each side

fighting - the status quo would be shaken if there was "civility".

[grahamhgreen]

52. Only in appearnce not in actuality - in the end we always get what is good for multinationals, not A

America

[truedelphi]

96. Bingo. n/t

[grahamhgreen]

53. Only in appearnce not in actuality - in the end we always get what is good for multinationals, not A

America

[liberation]

78. I just see the GOP throwing all the punches, and the Dems saying "thank you may have another"

There is lack of civility in one side (the GOP), and waaaaaay too much politeness on the other (the Dems).

This is starting to resemble more the dynamics of a dysfunctional abusive relationship, where the abused are desperately trying to get the validation of their abusers.

[bvar22]

105. Plenty of cooperation when getting Public Money to RICH folks:

NOW we have Your Children’s Money too !!!
And there is not a fucking thing you can do about it!
Now THIS is “Bi-Partisanship” !
Better get used to it!!
Hahahahahahahahaha!

[Bonn1997]

111. The war has more to do with desire for power than with differences in policy positions

The policy debate is merely: no increased government involvement in health care versus an extremely tiny, weak increase

[LuvNewcastle]

8. The corporations have bought both sides.

My best friend is a Republican, but we both agree that the legalized bribery we have in Washington has to be stopped or it's going to be the end of this country. The press rarely reports about the kickbacks that lawmakers get and when they do, the public says little, if anything. There needs to be outrage from the citizens about this and new campaign finance legislation with some teeth needs to be passed as soon as possible. Remove money from the equation, and I believe we'll see a difference between the parties again.

[Ruby the Liberal]

9. Yep. Sadly K&R nt

[whathehell]

10. I agree, sadly.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

11. I'm sick of this Naderite bullshit. n/t

[anonymous171]

15. Wahhhhh

[mitchum]

35. However, your illness still does not make it untrue

[grahamhgreen]

54. Get used to it, because it's true.

[reggie the dog]

81. I don't know what economic class you are in

but neither the Democrats nor the Republicans do anything that helps people in my economic class.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

98. Well good, then you should call Obama...

...and register your outrage about the extension of unemployment benefits.

[reggie the dog]

110. that is a band aid

what have the democrats done to stop maunfacturing jobs from going overseas? they gave us NAFTA.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

112. You think getting rid of NAFTA would stop jobs from going overseas?

If you believe that, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.

[reggie the dog]

122. It would stop jobs going to Mexico

you also need to stop having "free trade" with China and impose taxes on imported goods.

[jpak]

84. me too - the health inurance industry is vigorously opposing the HRC bill it supposedly "wrote"

someone is pulling our leg

[intheflow]

12. Truer words were never spoken, Phoebe.

The merger was complete by 1988 when the League of Women Voters pulled out from sponsoring presidential debates

"...because the demands of the two campaign organizations would perpetrate a fraud on the American voter. It has become clear to us that the candidates' organizations aim to add debates to their list of campaign-trail charades devoid of substance, spontaneity and answers to tough questions. The League has no intention of becoming an accessory to the hoodwinking of the American public."

That's the year the Republican/Democrat party took on organizing its own "two party" debates, excluding all third party candidates. :(

[Fumesucker]

14. I had forgotten that, thanks for reminding us. n/t

[slipslidingaway]

20. Important! nt

[ipaint]

13. perfect description.

I've watched the process to get to this point my whole adult life beginning with reagan.

[leftstreet]

16. K&R

[slipslidingaway]

19. knr nt

[waiting for hope]

21. The longer TPTB keeps each side fighting

and seeing only the party differences, the longer they stay in power. People on both the right and the left are angry - if they ever were to come together on the real reasons why, there may be an opening for change.

K&R

[arcadian]

23. Most important thread ever posted on DU

Congratulations. :thumbsup:

[Usrename]

24. That depends.

The party leadership is getting abandoned by the rank-and-file in both parties.

And, no matter how people wish to view it in hindsight, Obama's campaign was a insurgency which became a movement.

It can happen again when a new purpose appears. When the world starts watching again. The 'sides' are also starting to sound the same.

[Kablooie]

25. When GOP was in control they did what the wanted. Now the Dems in control do what the GOP wants.

[avaistheone1]

26. Sssh don't say Obama is anything like Bush

or ELSE.

:sarcasm:

[chill_wind]

27. More and more evident. K & R. n/t

[The Backlash Cometh]

28. It means the chamber of commerce is taking over.

[NJmaverick]

29. More like a merger of "teabaggers" and "old-fashioned liberals" into an anti-Obama coalition

[treestar]

30. No, they are not

Anyone who can't see the differences is being deliberately blind.

Extremists of both sides would see it like that, but that doesn't make it true.

This country is stable. That's what seems to bother some people. It is a good thing when most people are at a reasonable center. Ask anyone in any unstable country.

The corporations haven't bought anything but TV ads. We are not required to vote any way because of an ad we see. We can think for ourselves no matter what the M$M tells us.

[PreacherCasey]

60. "The corporations haven't bought anything but TV ads." HAHA! They don't need to buy the ads,

they own the broadcast and cable networks, film studios, radio stations, and publishing houses. Time Warner, Disney, News Corporation, Viacom, Bertelsmann and GE OWN the rights to just about everything you've ever seen or heard through the media filter in your life.

There are many more examples. Take insurance industry 'campaign contributions' and astroturf organizing for one. Give me a break.

[treestar]

92. So don't just do what they tell you do to

Turn off the Tv and think for yourself.

This attitude acts like we are helpless in the face of the M$M.

[SOS]

63. "The corporations haven't bought anything but TV ads."

Drug and insurance companies are spending $1 million a day bribing the corrupt lackeys.

[treestar]

93. so we can lobby too

Are you saying their campaign contributions are outright bribery? Then work for a campaign law instead of just bellyaching (and there are some laws already).

As a voter you can also call your congresspersons about issues. You don't have to spend any $$ on that.

[JackRiddler]

108. Campaign contributions are not "outright bribery," they are legal bribery.

[Kermitt Gribble]

65. Escalating war;

massive giveaways to the banks; soon-to-be massive giveaway to the health insurance industry; destroying public education in favor of private education; abandoning civil rights; abandoning a woman's right to choose... The list goes on and on. The whimper of a fight the Dems put up over any populist issue is for show. Congratulations, you continue to be mesmerized by their performance.

[paulk]

71. your "reasonable center" is a good deal to the right

of the rest of the western world.

I think the OP has hit on one of the reasons, if not THE reason. The corporate state has way too much influence on our government, both Democrat and Republican. In a macro sense, there is little difference - far to many of our laws benefit big business over the working stiff. These things haven't happened in a vacuum...

[treestar]

94. Why is that then?

Why are these other countries so much more advanced? And how do we get the American voter to be more advanced? The American voter may not hate corporations, because they might work for one.

[paulk]

118. there are several reasons, imo

The control of the media by the powers that be is a major one. The message is, in a large part, controlled. The left is marginalized and unable to get their message out. I will also add that the left has a talent for marginalizing itself, which doesn't help.

How to get a more advanced voter? I don't know. Our citizenry is not as well educated, as a whole. Our primary education system has failed us - and with the cost of higher education continuing to rise, making it even more difficult to afford an education, I don't see much improvement. Perhaps our system of privatizing everything just plain doesn't work.

I don't believe corporations are inherently bad, myself - what I think has happened is that the money involved in gaining political office has created a system where the entities able to provide that money have gained undue influence in controlling the government, and most specifically in controlling the regulation of those entities. The Republican party has long been guilty of siding with the corporate state over the interests of the working person. What has increasingly happened is that the Democrats, because they need the money to compete, have also come under that sway. The government needs to be the watchdog standing between us and the corporate state - and they are failing in that role.

The answer is, of course, campaign finance reform - a difficult proposition, given that the people in charge of changing those laws are benefiting from the status quo.

[treestar]

119. Also how do the Euro countries and others avoid it?

They have a better media? No corporations? Better educated voters?

CFR is great but it's ultimately the voters. They don't have to vote for whoever has the slickest presentation. They can think. They just don't.

[pauldp]

72. The corporations bought the f*cking playing field. nt

[treestar]

95. No, they cannot. As a voter you can campaign, call congressmen,

and just sitting around claiming there is nothing you can do and just blaming this abstraction "corporations" is a cop out.

[ooglymoogly]

104. And now a word from from our own dear Polly; Wearing stunning Sarah Palin

rose colored glasses that would knock the foundation right out from any reality one might be seeking.

[Red Knight]

113. See Max Baucus

Among others--if you think that the only thing bought was "T.V. ads".

Seriously, you haven't been paying attention.

Guess how much Wall Street money Obama got and then look at the people he surrounds himself with to deal with the financial crises.

This isn't even hidden anymore.

If you can't see it, it's because you don't want to see it.

[Individualist]

31. DLC has achieved its goal.

[Vidar]

32. K&R,

[susanr516]

33. Perfect description

Kabuki. K&R.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. The "not as bad" party is becoming the "just as bad" party.

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." --Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.

[HuckleB]

39. That's what everyone, including me, said in 2000.

And then Bush proved us all wrong.

I won't go down that road again.

[liberation]

83. Is this the part where you neglect to mention the "oppostion" the Dems mounted against Bush

for the long 8 years "you were not going down that road?"

[Cassandra2010]

36. A message from the elite that it's time for capitalism's "B Team," the Democrats

to take the wheel for a while.

Though many will think otherwise, this is not really good news. The ruling class feels that the recklessness & overt corruption of the Bush regime had begun to damage the interests & credibility of US capitalism to an unacceptable degree. At the same time, the Democrats have demonstrated that they are ready to follow all the same basic policies that the Busheviks have built the structure for, with only minor variations in rhetoric & personalities.

Therefore, much is to be gained (from the viewpoint of elites) by a change of personnel. The Democrats get to win the elections, there will be much cheering & self-congratulation about how American democracy "works" and allows the people to vote for change, and tensions will be greatly reduced.

But this is precisely the kind of situation for which the 2-party system is designed -- to allow for a blowing off of steam, and a fake "rejuvenation" & feeling of "new direction" -- while fundamentally, nothing at all really changes. The effect of a Dem win is to strengthen faith in the 2-party system. Yet, the Dems will continue support for the War on Terror, for all military funding, and perhaps even an increase in troop levels. They will continue all free-trade arrangements, and 100% support for Israel. Almost none of the horrible Bush legislation (PATRIOT, torture, eavesdropping etc) will be undone, and no serious investigations of Bush crimes will be undertaken, except perhaps for marginal cases which, when all is said and done, will raise hopes then amount to nothing (like the Plame case).

The point here is not to quibble over whether a Dem win or a Repub win would be "better." The point is really that it makes no difference, because 99% of the populace will lose either way. And, longer term, it is actually a negative to have general faith in the 2-party system strengthened by temporarily passing control over to the B Team. As long as we stay in the framework of the 2-party system, there is no chance of meaningful change.

[Hydra]

37. Excellent 1st post

I suspected something like this would happen. What wasn't accepted under Bush will be accepted under Obama.

[abq e streeter]

38. Welcome, and wish I didn't agree with you, but I do

[HCE SuiGeneris]

41. !

This should be an OP.

[leftstreet]

47. [phone] This should be an OP

:applause:

Welcome!

[Skelly]

51. So how would a third party

prove to be different? Would not they too be drawn (even unwillingly) into keeping the status quo?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

86. Yup, that's what I've thought ever since the MSM decided that Obama and Hillary Clinton

were the only two Democratic candidates.

The only thing that kept me from voting third party was Sarah Palin, and I wonder if her otherwise puzzling nomination wasn't calculated precisely to force all non-stupid people to vote for Obama.

[AndrewP]

101. Well said.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

40. All too true.

The pandering makes me ill.

[Greyhound]

42. K&R for your knack for cutting right to the heart of the matter.

This has been true for my whole political life.
:kick: & R

[karynnj]

43. Turn on the health care debate

There is a huge difference between the parties.

[MNDemNY]

44. That merger was , largely, instituted in 1988.

[autorank]

45. It's "The Money Party" k*r

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0709/S00549.htm

Thanks!

[Peace4us]

46. Kucinich Knows What the Problem Is

The beginning of political wisdom is when you realize that BOTH parties are part of the same larger agenda, although they do have superficial differences. And no it is not a conspiracy, unless you consider man's greed for wealth and power and control to be a conspiracy. It is the American people against a financial oligarchy which has taken control of our government throught the control of the money issuing power. Once we regain control of our own government, we can begin to institure real change, but not before.

We can change this. Congress voted in a central bank in 1913. Congress can vote to end it. Kucinich will be introducing legislation to Nationalize the Fed, essentially giving the power to issue money back to the people through Congress, where it should be.

More info at www.monetary.org.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

49. Welcome to DU.

:hi:

[Peace4us]

91. Thanks - I'm enjoying it here...:-)

I am a newbie and appreciate your welcome. This is a great forum!

[HuckleB]

48. The older I get, the more I get to watch trends in hyperbole repeat themselves.

We do ourselves and everyone a disservice by going down such roads, IMO. It's too easy to go up into the safety of the pure tower. However, it may be more destructive than working in the mud and the muck that is the world.

[grahamhgreen]

50. Very well put sir! This is a new meem that bears repeating in all media! nt

[HuckleB]

55. There is nothing new about it.

And it's actually quite mindless.

[grahamhgreen]

75. Corporate merger. I like it! nt

[mod mom]

56. Yep, I went from a straight ticket party voter to one who votes progressive after

understanding the devastating effects of the Corporate sponsored Clinton years. :mad:

[Auggie]

57. K&R

[waronbanks]

58. More importantly

what we are witnessing is the passive acceptance of this by the general public. So clear...so obvious that our congress critters are just corporate humpin whores only worried about the next election. The health care BS makes it so clear...so indisputable as whats going on yet we do nothing. We will sit by and watch these weasels hand over more money to the insurance companies while more people go bankrupt and more people die. Simply unbelievable how passive and pathetic Americans are when it comes to this kind of thing.

Wake up America...occupy Washington and demand an end to this criminal behavior!

[girl gone mad]

59. k & r..

sad, but true.

[Kermitt Gribble]

61. Most on the left are aware of this merger.

Most centrists deny it, for whatever reason, though, many are starting to see the light. Those on the right, the tea-baggers, will be the last, if ever, to step in to reality. However, we will all need to unite to take back our govt.

Great post, Phoebe! K&R!

[bvar22]

62. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED !

The DLC New Team
Chamber of Commerce Approved Members ONLY
Working Class Democrats need not apply

(Screen Capped from the DLC Website)

*The Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party SHUT OUT of the Obama Administration…...Mission Accomplished!

*WARS fully funded and EXPANDING. Bill sent to our children…...Mission Accomplished !

*Trillion Dollars given to friends and campaign contributors on Wall Street. No Strings Attached...Mission Accomplished!

*Military Spending INCREASED....Mission Accomplished!

*Trillion+ Dollars given to the Health Insurance Industry. Token, easily avoidable, symbolic only strings attached....Mission almost Accomplished!

*Kill the possibility for a REAL "Public Option" or REAL Universal Health Care for at least another generation, and begin the “Entitlement Reform” defunding of Medicare (-$500 Billion)....Mission almost Accomplished!

*Block ANY re-regulation of BIG BANKS and Credit Cards....Mission Accomplished!

*Protect the Bush War Criminals and Torturers from JUSTICE....Mission Accomplished.

*Marginalize Pro-LABOR Democrats and co-opt the Anti-WAR Movement...Mission Accomplished

*Reinforce the worst Police State provisions of the Patriot Act....Mission Accomplished!

*Protect the very richest. Tell the Working Class that they CAN will be forced to compete with 3rd World Slave Labor.....Mission Accomplished!

*EFCA (Employee Free Choice Act) killed in the crib....Mission Accomplished!

*More Anti-LABOR "Free Trade"....Mission almost Accomplished!

*Jobless Recovery....Mission Accomplished


K&R

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

64. Powerful post and exacty what I'm talking about

The Republicans damaged their brand but we bought their inventory and are repackaging it under our own label.

[bvar22]

69. The Democrats are transferring MORE Public Money....

...to For Profit Corporate Interests than The Republicans could ever dream about.

[Red Knight]

115. I'm happy that people on the left are seeing this

It's interesting that the easily manipulated right can't see it. They are held in check by the story that the Dems are running some big socialist regime. Of course that's crazy but it works for them.

If THEY get to the point of seeing what's going on and who these parties serve first and foremost maybe we'll get to a day of real change.

Even so--as we can see---there are people even on the left who don't see it--or refuse to see it.

It will take time.

But it's happening.

Start by nationalizing the Fed.

Get campaign finance reform enacted. REAL reform.

Make room for third parties to compete fairly.

We have to take this back piece by piece.

[Hidden Stillness]

73. The Same Behavior, the Same Connections--Pretending to Be Different

This is what I consider to be not only the most outrageous behavior of the current "D"LC-owned "Democratic" Party, but also its clearest clue. They all do exactly the same bahvior, all directed completely now to corporate interests, but each side gives supposedly "opposite"-seeming reasons for it, and then no one mentions or criticizes the phoniness of it. By the way, I will never forget the first several times I ever heard "consultant" types on TV call the Democratic Party reputation "the Democratic Party brand," I thought that was so shocking and insulting that surely the Democratic "officials" would come out swinging, and knock that one down as the corporate, anti-Governmental mind-set of Republicans. Instead, they all said it, too. I could hardly believe it--could you imagine the Royalist fighter Roosevelt calling a political Party a "brand"?

Republicans still play to their hardliners and extremists, "we" do not, and all do the same things:

Republicans kill a Medicare option and call it "Socialism"; "Democrats" kill a Medicare option, and say they are "giving choices" and "not forcing anyone."
Republicans bail out Wall Street friends, and tell us all to fuck off, it is their Government, they don't need to give an explanation; "Democrats" bail out Wall St., and say they are saving jobs and loans for the little people, even though they aren't.
Republicans deregulate banking and credit card practices and tell us business needs to be freed from law; "Democrats" deregulate them, (as with Biden's crushing Bankruptcy Bill), and say it won't hurt anybody.
Republicans take public money for corporate interests, and it is an abuse of power by the wealthy; "Democrats" (such as when Bill Clinton bailed out the corrupt Government of Mexico during the 1990s because of commercial ties, and told us it will "save jobs here" and these are "our" friends) convert tax money to corporate payouts, and they are "helping small business" or "protecting jobs."
Republicans favor corporate connections with Govwernment contracts as some kind of "entitlement" of the rich; "Democrats" do the same thing, doing nothing but working deals now, yet there is a pretended "social good" angle spun about it.
Bailouts go to only financial interests who earlier paid the candidates off; yet "this will help get loans," "help homeowners," etc. Then why don't you just buy and renegotiate, with help, their home loans so they can afford them, as Roosevelt did? Obviously, that was never the intention. "Shut up and quit questioning" was the intention.
Republicans cut taxes so they can kill the Government's ability to work; "Democrats" cut taxes, then tell you it will "jump-start" (whatever that means) the economy, which it never does.

All do the same things nowadays, pretend different reasons for it, neither criticizes the other for this outrageous behavior they now all do, anymore, and none of them even speaks like a human being anymore. Now, every single thing is a coordinated group of slogans, on message--infuriating--on every single issue. They don't talk like people who have any intention of doing anything for you; they talk like people totally oriented to the world of corporate advertising and deals. They are one "bi-partisan" (corproate) group now, like those horrible commercials sponsored by the insurers from AARP, where Pelosi and Gingrich were grinning, sitting on a bench, (and all the rest of them). This is the true, increasing horror of the takeover of the Democratic Party by the Republican "D"LC, and it is all only getting worse. Why do you think they never, never pass a law in Congress to get rid of corporate money and influence in campaigns, which they easily could?

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

80. Great post. Thanks.

I always remember Bush one making the point that not another law needed to be passed in his opinion- maintaining the staus quo after Reagan was purpose enough. He was always castigated as a man without vision and it was true. He didn't have the imagination to see that plundering and pillaging beyond his wildest dreams was possible. It would be initiated under Clinton, expanded under Bush II and maintained by Obama.

[chill_wind]

74. Which is what we get

from a Party Leadership that can compare Rachel Maddow to Rush Limbaugh. They truly can see no problems with that.

http://www.usnews.com/articles/opinion/2009/09/02/partisan-superfans-are-driving-average-americans-from-politics.html

Marc Dunkelman is a vice president of the Democratic Leadership Council.

:puke: :puke: :puke:

[liberation]

82. Are you f*cking kidding me, how much more boldfaced can the DLC get?

This is the oldest trick in the book for reactionaries: attempt to label those who actually care and are trying to better this society as "dangerous and divisive partisans."

Only in this f*cking country could a politician open their mouth to claim that ideology, not pragmatism, is a bad thing in politics. What is next sociopaths trying to make a point that consciences are a bad thing since they slow them down?

[chill_wind]

85. I wish I was :-(

It's not new.

[AndrewP]

103. WOW! That is sickening

As someone said to me once, You can have your own opinion, but you can't have your own facts. Comparing what Rachel Maddow brings to her show to that drug popping Right Wing shill is amazing.

[muriel_volestrangler]

114. No; what he said was that Maddow's viewers already knew they wanted healthcare reform

while the Limbaugh listeners were already determined to block it. He was contrasting those 2 groups with those between them who don't follow politics closely, and who can be persuaded.

I'll quote it:

Public options and cooperatives. Subsidy thresholds and individual mandates. It may be democracy's greatest blessing that such esoteric concepts can spark intense debate.

Those attending town halls meetings around the country this summer might have thought that someone wearing a Yankees cap had just wandered into a Red Sox bar. Or that Michael Vick had just walked into a PETA convention. The most important litmus test in Washington today may be whether you are for or against the Obama administration's healthcare reform proposals. Politicians, operatives, interest groups, and pundits, all of whom picked sides months and years ago, have come streaming out in full fan gear, with buttons and fliers, facts and figures, talking points and charts. In turn, they have mobilized the nation's most engaged citizens—the volunteers and activists, petition carriers and bloggers.

But let's not kid ourselves: If you have your TiVo set to record Rachel Maddow, or you've altered your commute so that you can tune in to Rush Limbaugh, your mind was most likely made up well before the town halls began. You are what we might call a "superfan"—an ideologically committed voter with a vested political interest. By contrast, most of the nation's swing voters (think soccer moms and NASCAR dads) do not have time to follow each witty retort from right to left and back. To the extent that most have a general outlook on national politics, it is that both parties are too consumed with self-promotion to pursue the public interest. If anything, the health debate's nasty tone has simply confirmed for them that Washington is as broken as our healthcare system.

And notice that means the Maddow 'superfans' are those who support Obama.

[truedelphi]

97. + 1000. n/t

[Land Shark]

66. Politics has (increasingly) been World Wide Wrestling for some time... nt

[blues90]

67. most people don't see this yet it's true. nt

[MissDeeds]

70. Unfortunately, I agree

I am still from the left wing of the Democratic party, for what it's worth these days.

[BeHereNow]

76. And still people continue along in a state of delusion..."As long as I can vote..."

I don't think any of this is going to end well
for the average peasant.

BHN

[bertman]

79. Excellent post, Phoebe. And many very astute comments. We've been corporatized.

Recommend.

[varelse]

87. It looks very much like that to me

but then, I'm an outsider, and have been for decades now. The view is likely different depending on the partisan perspective of the viewer.

[shadowknows69]

88. K+R summed it up perfectly.

[formercia]

99. Welcome to Onepartystan.

It's a given already.

[Djarun]

100. Mergers mean better service, right?

Wish there were more people like Ron Paul in government...

[DallasNE]

106. What We Are Witnessing Is

The lack of public financing of federal elections.

Once we have that then the corrupting influence of corporate money on the election process will be somewhat dimished. The insurance industry has thrown over $100 million into the campaign to defeat health care reform. Dirty money corrupts everything.

[naaman fletcher]

107. happened a long time ago.

[Echo In Light]

116. G.Carlin's take on Bipartisan: "A larger than usual deception is being carried out."

[jonnyblitz]

117. great post, Phoebe! I agree.

:hi:

[Hidden Stillness]

120. Haunting Second-to-Last Paragraph of O.P.

The more I think of it, the more I am struck by the total, haunting accuracy of the second-to-last paragraph of the OP: "Notice how well this kabuki is working in the sham we have going on for what passes for 'Healthcare Reform.' We will get the barest, crappiest reform possible, in fact a great victory for profit healthcare, but it will be framed as a Herculean struggle to get the populace some crumbs - that we will celebrate and be grateful for." This is actually exactly what they have been acting like--and laughing/sneering at anyone who questions why they are not just pushing for the single-payers that most Americans want.

Over and over, "Democrats" go to this effort to give Republicans everything they want--killing single payer, supporting Roberts and Alito, Reid killing bills so Republicans won't even have to go to the trouble to filibuster in the Senate, etc., etc.--yet pretending that they are "fighting," and lucky to even get this far! With all the popular support in the world after the total backlash against Bush and Cheney, they still play this game where they pretend Democrats are "the minority" and they are already pushing things as far as the country will allow, because they are "not liberal." When you prove that actually, people do support the liberal opinion--against Iraq war, for taxes for rich people and corporations, for jobs programs and against Wall St. bailouts, etc.--they fight you, and pretend you are just totally unclear on the way things work, and are "an extremist" of one sort or another. They actively fight the people, on behalf of corporate interests.

This also explains why no great legislation gets passed anymore. It used to be, they passed Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, the Interstate Highway system, civil rights legislation of many kinds, consumer protections, regulations for corporation and the stock market, etc. Now, for the past 30 years or so, we get only this fucked corporate-written subsidy and deregulation that masks as "great progress": "Medicare" Advantage, an insurance subsidy; "Medicare" Part D, a pharmaceutical subsidy; and deregulation of the financial investment industry. Why do we get only these fucked-up, unreal pretenses of things, and never a true legislative landmark progress, the way they used to do, before the corporate takeover?

This paragraph of the OP really gets at the situation, so clearly.

[Karmadillo]

121. So here's where the lesser of two evils strategy leads us. Time for real change.

nt