Why yes, it is another Obama/War Thread

[Nuclear Unicorn]

I voted for Obama. It was my first time ever being eligible to vote and I was proud of it...and in many ways I still am.

During the campaign I heard every word he said about Afghanistan being the necessary war. I don't like war. Cure the poverty and the lack of education and Before it was an abstraction of gut-wrenching photos and the horrific stories that go with them. As some of you may know issues of the war have come home to me in very deep and personal ways. War has hurt someone I deeply care for; it is no longer an abstraction for me but something that has left me crying at night.

I figured/hoped Obama's talk about fighting in Afghanistan was tough-talk to secure the middle-roaders but I also figured he had seen things we didn't. He saw the reports and wouldn't lie about them. Would he lie just to get elected? If so, shame on us for being so easily duped after spending so many years congratulating ourselves for not being hood-winked by Obama's predecessor.

In the last 10 months we've seen what he campaigned for come to fruition...and my heart is breaking. War means people will be killed, hurt and scarred. Families will grieve, young men and women will have to learn to walk or feed themselves with prosthetic limbs nearly all of them will have memories they will live with in silent anguish.

I know Obama didn't lie to me. I know he doesn't fight for corporate interests.

...BUT...

...he said we're essentially leaving in 18 months: win, lose or draw. Will Afghanistan be able to carry itself? I don't know. I read recently that they had an army of 250,000 with pretty good stability before the Soviets invaded in the 70's. We're only shooting for an Afghan army of 150,000 and they have no reason to trust us if we're leaving in 18 months, their own fortunes be damned.

That strikes even me--an absolute military novice--as a silly thing. Why should we stay for 18 months? It seems arbitrary. What if it takes 19 months? I certainly have no desire to see Afghan surrendered to a bunch of misogynist killers. We aren't the world police but as the Brits say, "In for a penny, in for a pound."

Is it merely coincidence that Obama will begin withdrawing troops just before the 2012 campaign season kicks off? Is he cynically gaming the polls at the expense of human life?

I don't think he's doing it to game us progressives. Yeah, we're mad at him (actually we're mad at the war, he is merely the face of it now) but let's face facts: if Sarah Palin or someone like her gets the GOP nomination in 2012 we'll be clawing our way over each other to vote for Obama/against her.

Is he doing it for the RWers? pheh! He could defeat the taliban and cure cancer but they will rail about spending, loss of freedom, taxes, liberalism and the other cliches.

Is he deploying troops to curry favor with the independents? Let's be honest: most Americans prefer a "strong national defense" and they do not like appearances of weakness (were Gandhi and MLK really all that weak?). These are the swing voters and they want their macho displays. Without them Obama is sunk and we will have a Palin on our hands and wars won't be an issue because we'll have plenty for everybody...bring the whole family after church.

It crushes me to think Obama would game the polls for these people. I'm mad at them for being who they are (not hating, hate is bad, I'm mad). I wish they would shed their Rambo imagery and realize how many beautiful people are being hurt.

I don't know what to think or even what to do. All I can do is hold my boyfriend close and kiss his cheeks because he's a beautiful man and I'm glad he came home from the war. And tonight when he wakes up from the nightmares I'm going to hold him closer and do my best not to let him see me cry because he just needs to know he is safe and loved.

[Walk away]

1. Could it possibly be that after he and his advisers spent months...

reviewing all of the information available to them, he concluded that it was possible to stabilize Afghanistan. I am not completely convinced that any war solves anything but I do not think Barack Obama is "gaming people" and "currying favor" by his decisions.

If you truly believe that this President in the "face of war" now and that there was anything in his speech that smacked of "Rambo Imagery" I find it difficult to believe you would ever vote for him again.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

2. The firm deadline of 18 month is what makes me suspicious

Maybe the generals did say it was doable. It just strikes me as very peculiar.

And forgive me if I was unclear. I never meant to imply Obama had a Rambo complex. I was referring to the political middlers. You know, the ones that like ideas like healthcare reform but also cherish dreams of American military prowess.

If I left you with any other impression I apologize.

I would vote for him again. If the prospect sacrificing a progressive agenda for a rabid conservative (after these recent tea parties and elections is there any doubt the GOP will offer anything else?) were my 2012 option I would crawl over broken glass to vote for Obama. There's no point in ousting Obama over the prosecution of the war just to see a conservative who is pro-war elected.

Or maybe I'm just being silly.

:hug:

[Walk away]

5. I'm sure you are just forgetting that the President made it clear...

that the situation on the ground would dictate if the deadline could be met and that it would be reviewed in December 2010. You sound as if you have been listening to Foxnews and John McCain, not the actual speech in PA.

Once again, I am still on the fence about the troop increase but constantly repeating right wing talking points to yourself and others won't help you feel better.

[whosinpower]

3. This decision he made was not based on future polling

He is not so foolish as that. If anything, he has accepted that he might be a one term president - but even within that, cautious, rational, pragmatic decisions must be made.

If he was just thinking of how popular he would be, he would've announced an immediate withdrawel.

I beleive he listened carefully to his advisors regarding Pakistan and Afghanistan and determined that to leave things eroding the way they are now - would never have any sort of positive outcome. If the taliban take over control, Al Quaeda finds itself with a safehaven once more - and this time, it has also infiltrated Pakistan. A nuclear armed al Quaeda is simply too grave a threat to ignore.

But, he used the 18 month window to light a fire under Pakistan and Karzai. This is the last chance. I hope for the sake of your boyfriend, and for you, and for all of us, that this works. You are right - too many people are killed or damaged.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

4. I find myself leaning this way...

...maybe it is to "light the fire" but what if the fire doesn't light?

Will we be out in 18 months and still risk AQ gaining Pakistani weapons?

[whosinpower]

6. I don't have that answer

And no crystal ball. But look, we are in better shape now than before. Would you like to know why? It is because I think the threat is real, not contrived, not cooked up to take over tracts of land and resources. I think the threat is real, and your president knows it, acknowledges it - and most importantly - DOES NOT IGNORE IT.