Arthur Silber's take on tonight's speech is a must-read... if you can handle the truth

[lwcon]

http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/2009/12/deadly-liar-and-manipulator.html

Before discussing the aspect of Obama's speech that most concerns me -- and that, I respectfully submit, should deeply concern you -- let me note that Obama made very clear that he purportedly intends to extricate us from Central Asia by involving us in increasingly complex ways in the affairs of both Afghanistan and Pakistan. If you think that is a glaringly obvious contradiction, you're entirely correct. How exactly do you leave that region of the world more quickly by involving yourself in ever more complicated and numerous ways? The answer is that you don't.

.
.
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Obama has put us all on notice: if we disagree with his policies, if we condemn the endless series of aggressive wars waged by the U.S., we are imperiling the strength and security of the United States itself. If we dare to criticize him or the actions of the U.S. government, we are displaying "rancor and cynicism and partisanship" that will "split asunder" the absolutely necessary national "unity." If we challenge Obama on any point of importance, we are "poisoning" the "national discourse."

In other words: disagreement on any matter of moment is not only dangerous, but illegitimate and even immoral.

Click through to read the whole thing, and please K&R if you want other DUers to read the linked article.

[Angry Dragon]

1. To me that sounds a lot like bush

kick and rec

[leeroysphitz]

32. It's Bush without the members only jacket.

When we have our asses handed back to us in the mid terms and Obama goes home to Chicago after one term maybe just maybe these fuckers will learn which side of the bread their butter is on and start acting like real democrats.

[Angry Dragon]

35. If it is not too late by then...........

[bvar22]

38. Naw.

They didn't learn in 1994 or 2000.

Besides, the "Centrist" DLC would rather see a Pro-Corporate Republican in a Congressional seat than a Pro-Working Class Liberal.

The "Centrists" and the Republicans all work for the same people.



The DLC New Team
Republican Lite ONLY
Pro Working Class Democrats Need NOT Apply

(Screen Capped from the DLC Website)

[glitch]

2. You're either with us or you're against us. More of the SHAME.

Well it worked on a lot of people for 8 long years, why not take it out for another spin.

[lwcon]

6. The Repubs are the "party of ideas," after all n/t

[loudsue]

3. Sounds like a perfect rightwing argument.

I don't like an escalation of the war in Afghanistan, but twisting Obama's speech like that sucks.

[lwcon]

5. I'm sure you have perfectly lovely reasons to be an Obama apologist

But what aspect of Mr. Silber's post "sounds like a perfect rightwing argument"?

And in what way is he "twisting" it?

Besides not dutifully rationalizing it, I mean.

[loudsue]

7. I do have a perfectly lovely reason to be an Obama apologist:...I'm a DEMOCRAT.

I don't go around putting him down when he tried to make a really difficult decision and ended up making one that I wouldn't choose.

He's a man, for chrissake. Just a human, who has some hard decisions to make. War. Economic meltdown. Nuclear proliferation. Hell! Right here on DU we had week-long research threads about AQ Khan (Pakistan's nuclear engineer) giving the nuke information to terrorists of all persuasions. So...yes. Obama has a difficult decision. He's also 11 months into the presidency, and has the entire weight of the military/industrial complex coming down on him. I think he did the best he could do.

The rightwing media just keeps putting him down.

[lwcon]

9. I've been a Democrat my whole life

But I never, ever took on the role of apologist for any Dem.

Their job is to do the right thing by the Constitution and the citizens of the United States (and as a human vested with awesome powers, to do what's right for all people), and it's our job to hold them accountable to do it.

He's making decisions that bring continued shame to my country. I'm just a human, too, and it offends my humanity for him to continue and expand this war.

[Go2Peace]

10. You can be a democrat and disagree with continual war

The "with us or against us" meme has been done before. Be a little more open minded and democratic. Democracy is a funny thing, it operates not by lock stepping, but by open discussion, officials listening and considering all opinions, and people working together to find solutions.

There are other approaches to these problems that have not been earnestly attempted.

Do you have relatives who live in our allies countries? I do, and our foreign policy is continuing to be undermined by our same approaches. We will slowly alienate ourselves by trying to bomb our way out of each situation while killing innocents and leaving toxic waste, mines, and cancer behind, until war *is* the only power we have left.

At that point we will have lined up most of the world against us and what are now "terrorists" will have become a worldwide movement against the US.

This is ignorance at best, immoral and profiteering at worst. When will Americans ever learn.

Now if I am not being properly "supportive" because I tend to think in more than one direction so be it. But I am still an American and Democrat just as much as you, at least as long as we have democracy here. So please tone down your authoritarian rhetoric.

[Go2Peace]

11. Just read your second reply, you are right. No-one should call you names for your opinion

I will leave my reply up. But there is room for us to disagree. I see your point.

I could even agree with you if it weren't for the fact that Obama *doesn't appear to be looking at alternative approaches nor the "bigger picture". He is much less "worldly" then I hoped. He seems to approach policy from the typical 20th century "we are the world's moral voice" and "we have a right to bomb any country as ling as it is in our interest" approach.

Yes, I think he is making the best decisions in his mind. Trouble is, he is not right. He is still buying into the same approach to the world and our problems that have gotten us into all these messes.

[fascisthunter]

36. now THAT sounds like a right wing argument

following politicians just because they belong to your party is a major part of the reason why we are in this mess. No one wants to be honest... no one, and it's why shits gonna get worse before it gets better, if ever.

[lwcon]

40. As a great political analyst said

"Honesty is such a lonely word.
Everyone is so untrue."

Damned straight!

[tex-wyo-dem]

13. Becuase the RW has used the very same characterization of Obama...

On many occasions, including the stimulus, the loaning of money to automakers, health care reform, energy reform, and on and on.

I am a stunch anti-war advocate and disagree with Obama's rational and actions with regards to Afghanistan, but I do not agree with this with-us-or-against-us analysis.

[lwcon]

15. Which characterization? Just the title, or the support for it...

... which is both rigorously reasoned and the absolulte antithesis of everything the rightwing stands for.

[mullard12ax7]

4. Correct: we're getting out but sending more troops = Orwellian double speak

Half of the fully duped American populace of propaganda responders actually believe it too.

[lwcon]

19. That's the change we were waiting for

Under Bush, we would never accept that war is peace. Now, it's all good!

[SammyWinstonJack]

27. Mind boggling, isn't it?

:crazy:

[G_j]

20. most every escalation in history has been wrapped in that language

and when we've achieved "victory" we can go home...

[grasswire]

8. sobering

Thank you. The attempts at manipulation are particularly insidious.

[lwcon]

16. Yes

It's not just the policies that are the same (now, with even more troops), but now the same manipulations we used to abhor are coming directly from "our side."

[grasswire]

24. the most cynical conclusion can only be...

....that Obama was allowed by the PTB to become president in order to pacify the left. Or neutralize the left. That idea is not original with me. But I believe it. Allowing him to become POTUS was a very cynical and dastardly act for a democracy -- it was the ultimate Karl Rove machination, driving right into the strength of the Democratic Party with an insidious attack. When you accept that reality, then Palin's nomination makes sense. The GOP didn't want her to win. It was all an "op".

[BeFree]

25. Trojan horse?

Only a fool would dismiss that idea.

[lwcon]

29. Call me a fool, but I think it's more like hide in plain sight

He said he was going to expand the military and otherwise further our imperialistic traditions. Do see the links in Arthur's post.

None of us this should come as a surprise.

[lwcon]

28. It's all in Obama's "Audacity" book

He really respects the status quo. He just wishes it wouldn't "bicker" so.

[FiveGoodMen]

39. It looks more like that with each passing day

I'm no longer sure -- at all! -- that Obama isn't knowingly 'in on it.'

[truedelphi]

41. It really all was an "op"

I have talked to countless RW types since the November election, and many of them have told me that they decided to vote for Obama, largely because of his "change" meme. And they couldn't stomach Palin - to them, it was like someone deliberately let the air out of the McCain Nomination.

Then after his election, Obama appointed Geithner and Bernanke, and those same RW types ran back to their party headquarters, saying "That guy lied to us." And they asked what to do. Thus came the Teabagger "Revolution."

Now we will have this Afghan war escalate. I think early on, there will be some type of terrorist act to jackup the fear level, and once again make it possible for everyone to start looking for terrorists under their bed, circa Sept 12 2001. And then once again, it will be very awkward to critique our Brave Leader.

This all seems so familiar till I remember that I read "Catch 22" back in the Sixties and saw the movie countless times. Whenever Yossarian needed to visit the Command Headquarters, the portait in the picture frame each visit would be of a different leader. The "Figurehead" always changes, but the Corporate Masters, unseen and unheard, remain the same.

[Subdivisions]

12. It's all about energy. And poppies. n/t

[lwcon]

14. And empire. n/t

[xiamiam]

23. and iran..nt

[lwcon]

30. And last night

Was a big coming out night for expanded intervention in Pakistan.

So many countries, so few bombs. And that's just the Democrats' perspective.

[mmonk]

17. I see the same things he does though I would word some things such

as the title differently. But neoliberalism and neoconservatism are too similar to ignore.

[lwcon]

18. Not only are they too similar...

... as practiced by our elected Dems, the commitment to the "social liberal" aspect couldn't be much weaker.

For heaven's sake, all the top Dems -- Obama especially, and in Rick Warren's church, no less -- say exactly the same thing on gay marriage that made Carrie Prejean a national pariah. They're helping chisel away at abortion rights, and the record on civil liberties is almost undifferentiable from Bush's.

So, we get a little (and increasingly little) feelgood rhetoric and identity politics but the same ol' same ol' for policy.

I need a neck brace to handle all this change!

[spanone]

21. not necessarily the truth. an opinion.

[lwcon]

26. Any opinion...

... on where he might not have captured the truth of what Obama's speech meant?

[BeFree]

22. yep

That is the feeling I got last night,
Dissenters will be dealt with. There shall be no debate.

Bad vibes. Bad, bad vibes.

[Lord Helmet]

31. That's an opinion piece, nothing more.

[Octafish]

33. No to War.

No to the War Party.

Thank you for the heads-up on a most interesting article, lwcon.

[lwcon]

34. You're welcome!

Thx for the kick!

[Luminous Animal]

42. Arthur Silber is one of the most provocative thinkers on the net.

It is well worth reading his essays.

[Delphinus]

43. Yes,

I bookmarked it to read more later.

[fascisthunter]

37. well, here's a kick...

the truth wins in the end... right or wrong, we shall see, but I have massive doubts in this administration.

[chimpymustgo]

44. Thanks for posting.