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You are all mad at the President for doing exactly what he campaigned on.

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Hyper_Eye Donating Member (429 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 07:37 PM
Original message
You are all mad at the President for doing exactly what he campaigned on.
He always said he would draw down in Iraq and focus attention on Afghanistan. This isn't a big surprise. We knew he would do it.

I won't say that the President has stuck to everything he said he would do during the campaign. He obviously let lobbyists into his administration and the influence of big business and the banking industry is clearly visible in his administration every time Geithner shows his face. He has not ended "don't ask don't tell" and Gitmo will still be operational come January. In these areas he has not kept to his campaign promises. It shouldn't surprise us that he would go back on some of his campaign promises because he showed us his willingness to do that as soon as the primary ended and he turned down public campaign financing. But he has done exactly what I expected and what everyone else should have expected when it comes to these wars. Iraq is practically irrelevant now and our involvement lessens all the time. Attention is on Afghanistan after it was completely ignored for 8 damn years. The President was willing to tell the people of Afghanistan that we are not willing to give blood and treasure to them without any end in sight. I don't know what is right in Afghanistan. It is an incredibly complex issue. I don't think I could have sent more troops and I don't feel good about the decision. I can't act like the President has deceived us though because he never did on this issue. People can put pressure on him from the left and from the right and everyone wants to be an armchair quarterback but this was his decision in the end and he will receive all the credit or blame when it is over. I think he is a very intelligent President and I hope he is doing the right thing.

At least he didn't allow public and political pressure push him to make a decision before he had time to hear all the options and put as much thought as possible into it. The last President didn't think about these things. He just acted. We had a President who didn't believe in critical thought or situational analysis. He shot from the hip and then tried to minimize the consequences with rhetoric. Should we so quickly forget? We had an 8 year disaster and this President is cleaning it up. Imagine where we would be in Afghanistan if we hadn't gone to Iraq. Barack Obama didn't start either of these wars and I am sure he would rather be doing a lot of other things but these wars exist whether the American people are aware of it or not. Barack Obama is taking charge and he will own Afghanistan. The last President barely acknowledged the existence of Afghanistan. He was the one that said about Bin Laden, "So I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him." Oh how great the progress we have made.

This was a tough decision. It is tough for me not to be upset about the continuation of this war. At least there could be an end in sight. If we reach election day 2012 and the wars are over I will gladly mark the box for Barack Obama. His decision here was so much more thoughtful than anything Bush ever did and so many things are better and getting better. We will have health care reform. Gitmo will be closed. Terrorist criminals will have been prosecuted and providers of medical marijuana will be free of fear of the same. Our markets will be healthy and people will have jobs. These are just some of the things we wouldn't have if Barack Obama weren't President. I support this President and I support a plan to end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yuh. Who knew "Change" meant escalation of forces. nt
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Read his speeches regarding Afghanistan
this is exactly what he said he was going to do. And for the record I disagree with it.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
15.  ANYONE who LISTENED
Edited on Tue Dec-01-09 07:59 PM by Raine
to his speeches.

Edit: typo
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. But...but...he can't clean up W's colossal mess with the wave of a magic wand?
:thumbsup:
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waiting Donating Member (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. I agree.
Edited on Tue Dec-01-09 07:42 PM by waiting
He has never said that he would pull us out of Afghanistan. And if he did pull us out now, we would be repeating the mistakes Reagan made in the 80's. An unstable Afghanistan right now, equals an unstable Pakistan, and there are nukes to worry about. This isn't Iraq.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. Don't forget the destablized country of Pakistan
Pakistan is in deep trouble of failing and putting nukes in the wrong hands.
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Hyper_Eye Donating Member (429 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
31. This isn't Iraq. That is exactly right. n/t
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branders seine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. delete
Edited on Tue Dec-01-09 07:44 PM by branders seine
glitch
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branders seine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. delete
Edited on Tue Dec-01-09 07:44 PM by branders seine
glitch
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branders seine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
6. What's your point?
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
7. So he promised it increase by 30K?
I was never quite sure what he was going to do, but he often spoke of using more than the military to address the situation. He frequently suggested that the primary focus should really be the Pakistan region. This kind of "nation building" isn't really what he campaigned upon. Nor was "going it alone". But he's not getting support from NATO or the international community, something he chastised Bush for doing.

The reality is that he is being sucked into the "military bubble". He was very conscious about not getting trapped in "the bubble" of the SS and the White House. He struggled to hang on to some sort of Blackberry connection. But what he doesn't realize is that he is being sucked into the military bubble. They do it quite well. They are a culture all their own. They have their own traditions, communities, schools, laws, and social structure. And they place presidents at the top and isolate him from the rest of the country.

I'd really be curious what dissenting, non-military voices were allowed any serious input to this decision.
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
8.  He said two-three brigades more needed there, 6- 24k
here is what he said:

Obama said troop levels must increase in Afghanistan.

"For at least a year now, I have called for two additional brigades, perhaps three," he told CBS. "I think it's very important that we unify command more effectively to coordinate our military activities. But military alone is not going to be enough."

...


Typically 2000 to 8000 = a Brigade
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
9. Yes, this does seem to be the P.R. point from headquarters today.
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Hyper_Eye Donating Member (429 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Sure. I signed up in 2005 to write a thread supporting the President at the end of 2009.
I am just that much of a forward thinker.

I have been visiting this site everyday since 2003. I am not a fucking shill and I am not a plant. I am also not a mindless robot and I am not afraid to speak out when I disagree with the DU thought police. I have been a member a long time. I don't have 1000+ posts because I don't feel a need to bullshit on here all day and there are plenty of useless members with 1000+ posts. I come here to think freely as a progressive and Democratic voter. If I wanted to know where to fall in line I would have become a Republican. They are happy to think exactly the same way 100% of the time.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. mm hmm
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Hyper_Eye Donating Member (429 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Your thoughtful response is bulletproof. n/t
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. we just don't have too much to converse about. be well.
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Hyper_Eye Donating Member (429 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Sure since we are on differing teams and all... wait... were not.
I want the wars to end. You want the wars to end. We simply see what this President has done differently. That still puts us squarely on the opposite side from the freepers who want the war, love the war, want more wars. We may not be 100% agreeable but I would still stand on the same side of the street as you during a protest...

... but I guess I could just be planted there.




Be well.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Fair enough.
I am sorry, but I did hear all this "he campaigned on it" crap all day and I was just tired of it. I voted for him DESPITE that, not because of it. Sincerely, my apologies.
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Hyper_Eye Donating Member (429 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. No sweat. When the wars are over we will all celebrate together no matter what we felt today. n/t
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lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
11. Great and thoughtful post, but the koochies are swarming and will rip it to shreds.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
13. You didn't need to qualify it at the beginning
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gleaner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
14. The President's performance in ....
Afghanistan is not the sole reason I am displeased with him. I think you sum it up pretty well for me
I won't say that the President has stuck to everything he said he would do during the campaign. He obviously let lobbyists into his administration and the influence of big business and the banking industry is clearly visible in his administration every time Geithner shows his face. He has not ended "don't ask don't tell" and Gitmo will still be operational come January. In these areas he has not kept to his campaign promises. It shouldn't surprise us that he would go back on some of his campaign promises because he showed us his willingness to do that as soon as the primary ended and he turned down public campaign financing.


Also there is the Health care fiasco which still continues, his courting of Conservative Republicans over working out issues and strategies with his own party and his dismissiveness toward those of us who supported him and helped him get elected. His campaign said he would remain in Afghanistan, not escalate hostilities there. I was displeased with what he did say before he was elected about the war, but the alternative, John McCain was not tenable. I am even more displeased that he does intend to enlarge the war. There are no rationalizations that he can make which makes that the correct course of action or a course of action that I will ever accept. It will be his Viet Nam. I remember as an adult what Viet Nam did to Lyndon Johnson. Does anyone ever really associate much else with Johnson's presidency? If Obama repeats Johnson's actions, do you think anyone will ever remember him for much else? Also, Obama has been largely stagnant when it comes to movement to keep his promises and help this country.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
16. I'm mad that he doesn't seem to realize that situations change
Campaign promises don't always have to be followed up on if the situation changes between the promise and the election.

Our economy is in a far more dire state than it was during the campaign, and the question of whether we should be engaged in nation building in the middle of a depression is a legit one.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
18. this is such fucking bullshit
are you under the assumption everyone has always been fine with everything Obama has ever said?? Ge the fuck off your high horse. Remember, many people voted against bush, not for Obama.
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Hyper_Eye Donating Member (429 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Get off your fucking high horse.
I'm not claiming a superior opinion here. I'm just expressing a different one. If you don't like it don't read it. This is why actual contributors leave DU. There is no logical discussion or real debate here. There is simply overwhelming support or overwhelming opposition. Stop posting completely irrelevant bullshit. Your attack was as much a waste of your time as it was mine. And Bush wasn't up for election last year so your vote was poorly decided anyway. Try voting based on people who are actually running for office.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #23
44. I DID TRY VOTING BASED ON PEOPLE RUNNING FOR OFFICE
I DIDN'T GET WHAT I WANTED BECAUSE IT WAS A FUCKING DONE DEAL BEFORE VOTING GOT ANYWHERE NEAR ME
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Hyper_Eye Donating Member (429 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. Your use of all caps is quite impressive. n/t
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ProudToBeBlueInRhody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #18
42. Voting against Bush?
Where was that option on the ballot?
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. it's called voting for the other guy because one guy is so over-the-top awful
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ProudToBeBlueInRhody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Well, I voted for Barack Obama
And I still trust he's doing what he thinks is best to extract ourselves from this mess. If McCain was in there, there wouldn't even be a mention of getting out, ever.
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
19. I disagreed with the war then, and do now.
Just because I voted for the man, it does not mean that I agree with everything he stated in the campaign. I voted for the better candidate. Had Panama John and Caribou Barbie been in office, it would be a much worse situation than what we are now in.
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Thickasabrick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
20. Just stop with that fucked up justification. He may have campaigned
on it and he was elected "in spite" of it. Everyone that voted for him did not automatically sign up to back all his stupid ass decisions.

Listen to his speech tonight and listen very carefully to the justifications for this. Then go back and look at Bush's justifications for his wars. Be sure and note the similarities.

We elected him to use his brain and he has opted to forego that and listen to the war mongers who pushed Bush's wars. We are not mad, we are disappointed that he has opted to take the route that requires more dead people.
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Hyper_Eye Donating Member (429 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. I don't see any evidence that he decided to forgo using his brain.
I think this was the hardest decision he has had to make as President. Just because he didn't decide exactly the way you would have liked doesn't mean he didn't agonize over this decision and weigh every option. Also, I didn't justify his decision in my post. I did two things. I pointed out that he told us he would turn attention to Afghanistan and I pointed out how his decisions have been different from the decisions made by the previous President. I don't have any intention to try to justify his decision. It is not my decision to justify. If it is successful it will justify itself.

Thank you for actually posting something of substance as opposed to simply attacking a person for having a differing opinion. There are a lot of people here who don't know what something substantive is. In the end my goal is the same as everyone else here and that is the end of these wars.
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lame54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #20
39. " Be sure and note the similarities."...
You can bet Jon stewart will
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Thickasabrick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Oh yea.....he's so good at that stuff! nt
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cbdo2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
22. I agree with you on this....and I know Obama's doing the right thing because
of how the super, super far left here are all so far against it. Anytime you've got the super, super far right mad at you (which they always are with Obama) and the super, super far left against you (like they are now) that's a sign that you're doing something right.

Good job Obama. Stick with it. You're doing the right thing even if all the computer chair quarterbacks don't think so.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #22
48. "super, super far left"
LOL

what a cheap argument
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ShamelessHussy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
24. No, we are disappointed at him for allowing the killing for oil to continue
or at least that's why i am disappointed, and disgusted

:hi:
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
28. I didn't like it when he campaigned on it.
That's one of the reasons why he was not my favorite candidate.
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Hyper_Eye Donating Member (429 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Hey he wasn't mine either.
But he is still a thousand times better than what we could have had. I never supported everything the President has said or all that he has wanted to do but I didn't support ANYTHING the last President said or wanted to do. Even the one thing he did that I could actually get behind, his large increase in funding for AIDs prevention and treatment in Africa, was marred by his ignorant and idiotic decision that we would only support abstinence-only programs there even though it has been proven that distribution of condoms and teaching the use of them decreases the spread of the disease there. While I don't support everything this President says and wants there are so many things I do support and it is great to see progress being made. After 8 years of terrible deterioration Barack Obama was clearly the right choice given the two options.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. I'm old, I'm tired of war,
and I'm sick of these kinds of speeches.

"Better than the alternative" isn't good enough for me anymore.
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Hyper_Eye Donating Member (429 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. I don't think he is just "better than the alternative".
I think he will be a good President. He hasn't had enough time to prove it but I think by the end of his first term it will be clear. He wasn't my perfect candidate but I am enough of a realist to realize that I will never find a perfect candidate.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
32. The far left is every bit as nutty as the far right n/t
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RedCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. Hurts when radical thought hits the root of the problem, doesn't it?
Almost as if by definition.
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bevoette Donating Member (609 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #32
41. indeed...except the far left seems to eat its own...
well...i guess w/ the 'tea partiers', the right is eating their own now as well


wtf...maybe those of us left standing will end up with a rational third party after all :shrug:
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lame54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
38. Many of us voted for him in spite of this
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #38
46. Fine, but it is pretty disingenuous when some whine about being betrayed
They were not betrayed. They just projected their biggest wishes on a candidate, despite the fact that the candidate clearly stated a different position on this issue. Wishes are fine, but reality is the road we travel to try for the best end.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
49. Thank God he campaigned against healthcare mandates
At least we won't have to go through this ag....
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Hyper_Eye Donating Member (429 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. Did you actually read the OP?
Did I have to mention every single campaign promise he didn't stick to? I was sure I mentioned enough of them. My point was that he told us what he was going to do on this issue. Nobody can say he didn't tell us he would continue the war in Afghanistan.
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rufus dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
50. BUT I DIDN'T GET MY COOKIE!!!!
And I want it now!
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