Like It Or Not, We All Own It.

[berni_mccoy]

I am surprised by the number of people here who are trying to distance or disown themselves from the War in Afghanistan. In 2001, Congress voted, nearly unanimously to authorize force in Afghanistan against the Taliban and Al'Qaeda. Only one Nay vote was Rep. Barbara Lee, so I guess we can say she does not own it. Even the great progressive hero of DU, Rep. Kucinich, voted Yea. Obama said many times during his campaign that he would escalate forces by the thousands in Afghanistan and would not be against at striking the Al Qaeda leadership in Pakistan. For 6 years, most of us railed against Iraq, even before it started. And we were right. But today's outrage against the President who is following up on exactly what he said we will do, can not be laid at the feet of his supporters alone. You may not like what he is doing, but if you voted for him, you own it too. You can disagree. You can rant. But you own it. You voted for a man who openly said he will escalate the war. You are responsible and you need to face it. Blaming others who defend the President's decision is a failure at placing your guilt at the feet of others.

The world owns it as well. The US is not the only one there. I know many here like to snark about Poland, but that was Bush's excuse for turning his back on Afghanistan and invading Iraq. The ISAF, a NATO operated and UN commanded force, incorporates more than 75,000 troops, of which the US has fewer than 50%. Even the U.S. operation, Operation Enduring Freedom, a force about half the size of ISAF, is an international force and the invasion was coordinated by an international team including US, UK, France, Germany and Canada and is supported by Russia and several former Soviet countries. Yes, we took the lead. But we went into Afghanistan with the World beside us.

Like it or not, everyone here who voted for President Obama, owns it. The World owns it. We all "own it".

[Oregone]

1. "You voted for a man who openly said he will escalate the war"

Do you advocate not voting for Obama if you oppose the Afghan war?

[Bluebear]

2. We've now been told we can't vote for him in 2012 since we don't support this war.

[berni_mccoy]

4. Exactly.

[tekisui]

6. You've lost it.

[berni_mccoy]

10. You've offerend nothing but poutrage.

[tekisui]

12. Actually, you are quite wrong again:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/tekisui

[berni_mccoy]

15. Yeah, responses like "You've Lost It" and other snark aren't included there.

[tekisui]

16. Some snark and some informative posts.

That is certainly more than "nothing but poutrage".

[berni_mccoy]

18. One hyperbolic response deserves another.

[Bluebear]

7. One term Obama, then.

[berni_mccoy]

3. Did you vote for him knowing his Afghanistan position? That's the question I pose in the OP.

If so, you can not lay blame at those who support Obama's decision.

[tekisui]

5. LOL!

[Oregone]

8. The question I pose is if you advocate not voting for him?

Whats our alternatives? Do we vote for the right-wingers, the Green Party, or stay at home and masturbate?

Please, clue me in on what you are getting at.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

9. Given the two party system we've cultivated, it's impossible not to be compromising with elections.

It's certainly possible to have voted for O and speak out against the war effort & escalation.
That does not make one a hypocrite.

Do you suggest that unless people agree with every campaign promise, they shouldn't vote?

[apnu]

11. There was also considerable cheer leading here going into Afghanistan in 2001.

Everybody was on board with invading Afghanistan to put the Talaban down and kill OBL. Al Franken made mention of his support frequently when Air America debuted. He talked about it on his first show.

I agree, everybody on the planet that was opposed to Al-Quedia (however you spell it, those fuckers don't rate spell-checking) "owns" the mess that's Afghanistan. Obama "owns" it because he's the POTUS, anything said beyond that is nonsense. He took the job, the war was going on when he was sworn in and as Commander-in-Chief, its his responsibility. End of story.

We should be somewhat happy that Obama is planning to end this thing. Were McCain running the show, we'd be buried there for another 4 years with no end in sight. Well Obama's gonna show us a light at the end of this long dark tunnel. I know most seem to disagree with how he's ending this, he'll escalate the # of troops there, but give them an exit strategy within 3 years, that should count for something.

[cali]

13. Let me be quite clear: I voted for Obama despite his intent to ratchet up

the war in Afghanistan. My vote was not an endorsement of the escalation.

[berni_mccoy]

17. I never said it was an endorsement. But you knew what he would do and must accept responsibility

for it now, even though you oppose escalation.

[cali]

24. responsibility for what, bernie?

I'm so weary of these kinds of juvenile arguments. I'm not responsible for the all the decisions made by Obama because I voted for him. That's absurd. I'm not responsible for every decision Bernie or Pat make in the Senate because I voted for them.

Nope, your argument is an embarrassment.

[ShamelessHussy]

14. not me, i was against it from the start - should have been a special forces operation

if other, diplomatic options failed e.g. presenting PROOF that OBL was behind the attacks, even the taliban would have disowned him, imho.

[StarfarerBill]

19. Then it's our responsibility to end our prolonged intervention in this civil war.

30,000...300,000...3,000,000 more troops won't subdue and destroy the Taliban and other insurgent groups, but they will most assuredly increase the suffering of the Afghan people.

We can't force the Afghans to bend to our will, but we surely can demand that our participation in their brutalizing ends; we still have that right and responsibility.

[TicketyBoo]

20. During the campaign

he indicated his support for the war in Afghanistan. If you didn't see that, then you weren't paying close enough attention.

However, the war has changed since that time.

There has been an illegitimate election in Afghanistan. Most of al-Qaeda, our true target, has absconded to Pakistan.

All he has to do is step up to the podium and say, "This is not the same war we were waging a year ago. Our troops are not accomplishing much of anything except getting themselves blown up. Current circumstances in Afghanistan require that we withdraw, at least for the time being."

Never mind what the Republicans say. A huge majority of the American people would be behind withdrawal, especially if he explained it properly.

When LBJ pushed heavily into Vietnam, he was facing an election that very year and worries that the Republicans would paint him as "soft on Communism." This President does not have those time constraints as far as his own election is concerned. He has the time to prove his leadership, and standing down at this point in time is the prudent thing to do. Cheney has already tried to paint Obama as "soft on terrorism." That isn't going to stick, in my opinion.

Getting pushed into another war because of political concerns certainly smacks of Vietnam, come back to haunt us once again. I don't think the American people will turn on this President nearly as hard for bringing our troops home as they will if this turns into another Vietnam, which it certainly has the potential to do.

It takes a bigger man to get us out of there than one who commits more troops. Maybe Obama is not as big a man as we thought or hoped. I hope and pray that he makes the right decision; I fear that he has already made the wrong one.

Just because I supported his position a year ago does not mean I support what it looks as though he's going to do now. Times and circumstances change.

I hope to hear a rationale tonight that makes sense to me, but I can't say that I'm expecting it.

[stopbush]

21. You hit the nail on the head.

As much as I dislike Colin Powell, I agree with the Powell Doctrine: You broke It, You Bought It.

The fact is that our COUNTRY bought this war when it voted for bush in 2004. That was a loud and clear message that the country agreed with him on his warmongering.

This is real life. This isn't a playground where one takes their ball and goes home when things get ugly. The fact is that the decisions made by presidents resonate for DECADES and even longer. The country still hasn't recovered from the scourge of Reaganism. We haven't even started to deal with the disaster that was bush. Obama has the unfortunate duty - and it is a DUTY - to clean up the mess left by the politicians who made decisions on behalf of their country. The obligations that attend to presidential decisions don't end when the president who made those decisions leaves office. The next guy is stuck with the consequences.

Unfortunately, our country can't think past the latest sex scandal, so we treat the earth-shaking and history-changing decisions that presidents make as having the same short-term interest and impact as does a sex scandal. We can easily disengage our minds and our lives from the sex scandal as soon as we lose interest, because the fact is that celebrity sex scandals have no impact on our lives whatsoever. Presidential decisions - on the other hand - do directly impact our lives, but we're trained by the media (who treat politics like a sporting event) to regard this earth-shaking decisions as today's weather report.

I'm afraid you're right - we all own this war.

[Bobbie Jo]

26. +1

It's called responsibility. Obama took the time to process this monumental clusterfuck and offer a responsible WAY OUT.

This is the change I voted for.

[Sukie]

27. Best post on this thread. Two thumbs up. n/t

[berni_mccoy]

28. Thanks.

[Sinti]

22. Sorry, we don't own it

We had a choice between voting for two men, one who would have gone into Iran in addition to the two bloody blunders we're in now and a man who said "I'll pull the soldiers out of Iraq and send them to Afghanistan to fix what went wrong." (loosely paraphrased)

Now, I could have voted third party, and that would have been a de facto for McCain and Palin. I could have not voted at all, it would have been a de facto vote for McCain and Palin.

It's awfully presumptuous of you to suggest that "we own it," because we picked the lesser of two evils. Many of us here NEVER supported any war in Afghanistan. Some of us even know the Taliban offered OBL to * and * refused - hence this was an aggressive war of choice and is unacceptable.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/oct/14/afghanistan.terrorism5

You are responsible and you need to face it. Blaming others who defend the President's decision is a failure at placing your guilt at the feet of others.

I expect to be imprisoned and possibly executed for war crimes then. I'll blame myself for taking any action at all in a situation when there was no truly good action available. I should have stayed home, then we wouldn't be worrying about Obama sending in more troops, we'd be worrying about the draft and how many civilians we're killing in Iran now.

Mind Your Head before you start posting random, senseless notions such as this.

[tnlefty]

23. Sorry, but no I don't.

I took a lot of shit for not supporting Hillary during the primaries because her hawkishness scared the shit out of me. I was told to turn in my ovaries, uterus, and to go start a TN Federation of Democratic Men at one of our women's conventions. I didn't vote for either in the primaries.

I DID vote against 'bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran', and 'a hundred years' and his batshit crazy, dumbass, theocratic running mate, and FOR someone who I thought was intelligent enough to realize that the country voted in mass numbers in rebuke to Bush's wars and other failed policies. During the campaign people told me that they hoped he was just talkin' tough to get elected and that he wouldn't put more troops in Afghanistan.

I opposed these invasions and made more phone calls than I can remember prior to any votes requesting Nay votes, and one to thank Rep. Lee for her courageous stand at the time.

So, are you suggesting that Rep. Lee is the smartest person on the planet? That I might agree with.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. A lot of people who voted for LBJ hit the streets during that other lost war.

Obama's promise to carry on Bush's policies in Afghanistan was a deal breaker for me.

So, I guess, by your parameters, I don't own it.

But, it's a silly observation you're making. Kucinich and many others who voted initially for the war have turned against it. Even though it's "our guy" who's now in charge of the killing.

[Jokerman]

29. Bullshit.

Many of us have been against this from the start.

Do you really wish we had all withheld our votes for Obama even though we disagreed with him on this issue?