Rick Warren Refuses To Condemn Proposed Ugandan Law To Execute Gays: "I never take sides."

[Are_grits_groceries]

Rick Warren, the pastor who delivered the invocation at President Obama's inauguration, is once again on the defensive -- this time for his work with a Ugandan pastor who would like homosexuality to be punishable by death.

Newsweek tried to get Warren's reaction to the anti-gay work of Martin Ssempa, a Ugandan pastor who has come to his Saddleback Church multiple times. (Warren has distanced himself from Ssempa in general terms, saying the Ugandan minister does not represent him or his church.) Warren wouldn't reject the idea:

But Warren won't go so far as to condemn the legislation itself. A request for a broader reaction to the proposed Ugandan anti-homosexual laws generated this response: "The fundamental dignity of every person, our right to be free, and the freedom to make moral choices are gifts endowed by God, our creator. However, it is not my personal calling as a pastor in America to comment or interfere in the political process of other nations." On Meet the Press this morning, he reiterated this neutral stance in a different context: "As a pastor, my job is to encourage, to support. I never take sides." Warren did say he believed that abortion was "a holocaust." He knows as well as anyone that in a case of great wrong, taking sides is an important thing to do.
Ssempa has also burned condoms "in the name of Jesus," helping roll back a highly successful anti-AIDS campaign in Uganda.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/30/rick-warren-refuses-to-co_n_373605.html

WTF! Warren: "As a pastor, my job is to encourage, to support. I never take sides."

NOT TAKE SIDES! You idiot! This isn't a debate at Oxford. It is a question about one of the most basic teachings of the Bible to put it somewhere in your universe. Did he not get his copy of the 10 commandments or does he have to have them delivered personally from Mt.Sinai?

It is also a basic question about human morality! I could call him names from now until the end of time. Religious grifter.

I'll bet he would have given Hitler a pass.

My hair is on fire, and I may never be able to put it out after this.

[Kali]

1. organized religion "management" = scumbags

almost always

[dsc]

2. wanna bet he takes sides if China decides to pass a similar law against evangelicals

[n2doc]

3. PS Rick- You just took a side

Hope you rot in hell, scumbag preacher.

[Robbie88]

33. Exactly.

Sorry, Rick, but if you do choose to remain silent as your pal advocates such atrocities, you have taken a side. It is true indeed that those who do not speak out on behalf of the oppressed when given the chance to do so are in fact firmly on the side of the oppressors.

[EFerrari]

4. He never takes sides against his bankroll. nt

[saltpoint]

5. Someone needs to step in and take sides against those god-awful shirts

he wears.

[StarfarerBill]

6. An infamy, compounded by a lie.

Typical of a for-profit religionist.

[Warpy]

7. The hell he doesn't.

He's not on the side of the angels most of the time, either.

[Are_grits_groceries]

8. 'The Purpose Driven Toad' does take sides:

Despite his conservative views -- he opposes abortion, same-sex marriage and supports the death penalty -- Warren claims that the religious right does not represent evangelicalism, and that he is not part of the religious right.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0603/S00266.htm

He believes in the death penalty. I think that's a side. Is he washing his hands yet?

[Fumesucker]

9. Hey, it was only a five minute invocation..

:sarcasm: for those whose ironometers have recently exploded in a shower of flaming metal and burning plastic.

Despite years in the Marines and a near lifetime in construction I find myself at a loss for sufficiently vituperative invective to adequately convey my disgust with this waste of skin.

That Obama chose this.. creature.. to speak at his inauguration dismays me more than I can relate.

[Are_grits_groceries]

10. Apparently he's mistaken the Bible for

Torquemada's greatest hits.

[Fumesucker]

22. For some strange reason I'm reminded of Mel Brooks..

I just got back from the auto-da-fe!

Auto-da-fe? What's an Auto-da-fe?

It's what you oughtn't to do, but you do anyway...!

[QC]

11. Always good to know what the president's best buddy is up to. n/t

[Canuckistanian]

12. A Fundie has NO OPINION on anti-gay laws?

That's a first.

[Starry Messenger]

13. He's such a sleaze.

He just typifies the kind of moral and ethical sinkhole this country has become. Pastor Rick can DIAF.

[Deep13]

14. He took sides on Prop 8. nt

[marshall]

15. Why is a Christian pastor setting government legislation in Uganda?

It doesn't make sense to me.

[leftstreet]

41. It'$ about Faith Ba$ed Initiative$ and taxpayer$ money and $hit

$omething like that

[marshall]

52. So we're spreading our conservatism to Africa?

What with this and the ultra conservative Catholic bishops in Africa, that continent is becoming the leader in intolerance.

[donco6]

46. Not the first time.

Pat Robertson did it in Liberia.

[Bluenorthwest]

16. Obama's friend and hand selected cleric of honor

Obama has taken sides and he stands with Warren. Prays with him. In front of the world. Uganda included. When will Obama take a stand on this vile expression of hate? Of course not.

[QC]

17. Even the Bush Admin. publicly condemned a milder proposed law in Nigeria,

but we have nothing but silence from The Fierce Advocate on this one.

[Bluenorthwest]

20. Yes, even W could not stand by in silence

[QC]

31. I'm so glad we have a fierce advocate now! n/t

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

18. It's really embarrassing that both presidential candidates had to go and kiss this douchebag's ass.

[Bluenorthwest]

21. They didn't have to

Obama and Josh DuBois wanted to go there. Wanted to stand with Warren. It is more DuBois than Obama, but it is hard to tell Josh's wants from Barack's desires, if you ask me.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

28. I guess I should have said "felt they had to". Because they really didn't.

This guy is a fucking con artist, nothing else.

[edhopper]

19. And I remember many here

criticizing those of us who thought this was a bad move by Obama to have him at the inauguration.
Anybody want to defend that choice now?

[Bluenorthwest]

23. They are present in their absence

And we all remember what was said. Not one of them will dare show up to comment. They are starting to see that the blood on their hands does not go well with their new shoes and handbag.

[Fumesucker]

24. And we hear the chorus..

[BolivarianHero]

25. I was disappointed...

I was hoping that something would have happened to Warren during that speech.

[donco6]

45. Proving there is no God.

If there were one, the sheer injustice of that act would have forced a lightning bolt from his hands.

[Starry Messenger]

26. lol

Those are the people who claim to not even remember Warren's name. It's too small a detail for their lives. Not what you'd call "deep thinkers".

[Bluebear]

34. :crickets: as a tumbleweed ambles by

[neshanic still]

35. I remember that. It was only five minutes. Emboldened now he continues on.

He got what he wanted. He was the five minute slippery slope.

[donco6]

44. LOL! Nah. They're busy setting up their private Obama ass-kissing club.

They call it a "place of refuge". More like a place for refuse.

[QC]

53. [phone]

[Rabrrrrrr]

27. Rick Warren a complete self-serving theologially bankrupt shitpot

and no one should pay attention to him.

[zbdent]

29. hmm ... found something interesting on Rick Warren ...

Jeffrey Goldberg interview from The Atlantic:

"RW: In the Old Testament, it says that if you have the power to do something good, then you have to do it. You're not to avoid helping somebody in their time of need. Shoot, the Torah says that if you find a cow in a ditch you've got to help it out. Even if it's the enemy's cow, you've got to help it out. We've got this compassion fatigue in America. It's why we have a slow genocide going on in Darfur.

JG: So America has a duty to help.

RW: The answer is, we must do all we can. People say America is not the policeman of the world. We may not be, but the Bible says, if you have been blessed, then you are to care for people who can't care for themselves, you are to speak up for people who can't speak for themselves, and to defend the defenseless."

http://jeffreygoldberg.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/08/the_rick_warren_interview_no_c.php

[juno jones]

30. He already took sides, but the media will not report it.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/1/19/203428/595

Rick Warren's African Allies Accused of Sex-Slavery, Massacres, Slave-Labor

Critics of Barack Obama's choice to include Rick Warren in the upcoming January 20, 2008 presidential inauguration ceremony have focused on the celebrity evangelist's religious beliefs and at least one report has traced his ties to reactionary African religious leaders. Media coverage of Rick Warren has failed to note, however, his friendship and alliance with two African presidents accused of perpetrating terrorism and massive human rights violations including massacres and assassinations, mass-rape, slave labor, sex slavery, large scale concentration camps, and the use of child soldiers.

A December 12, 2008 UN report charges Warren's African allies, Rwanda's President Paul Kagame and Uganda's President Youwerie Museveni, with continuing to fuel the conflict in the Congo by supporting the renegade army of Laurent Nkunda, whose recent military offensive has created hundreds of thousands of refugees.

Of course he will not disclose his ties to these people. Disingenuous is an apt word for this man.

[Initech]

32. Rick Warren is a purpose driven piece of shit.

How can he say he doesn't take sides when last year he sent out a mass e-mail to his 40,000 member congregation urging them to vote yes on h(8)? He does too take sides.

[Are_grits_groceries]

36. Gah!

I wish somebody would tatoo hypocrite across his forehead.

[QC]

37. !

[undergroundpanther]

38. Rick warren

Agrees gays should be executed, because he is of the same sick ass belief shared with all those fuck-faces in the'family' and the c street assholes.


If ANY person has ANY connection to the family,and remember the D or R next to their name is bullshit,for the"family' comes first,they have the same beliefs and are the same dangerous gang of abusive cultie fuck-faces that are traitors to democracy.

Fuck the FAMILY of xtian taliban pigs,They are all abusers of power,So Disgusting and EVIL!!

I HATE the Family and I hate the fundie evangelical assholes.I hate them all.
And I hate their sick evil little gawd,and the book of shit they use to excuse murder and who knows what other inhuman crimes.

[AVID]

39. He owes his allegiance to to his flock who puts money in his pocket - his eternity will not

be any different from any atheist, muslim, jew, morman, agnostic, or hindi, saint, or sinner.

Fuck him.

I am disappointed that he was given the chance to speak at the invocation.

[keroro gunsou]

40. i quote the masters:

if you chose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

that said, bite me preacher man.

[Withywindle]

42. What a load!

He took a side long ago, and it's the WRONG one. Consistently. You can rely on him for that.

[Shallah Kali]

43. Warren has campaigned against condom use in Africa to reduce spread of AIDS - plz read this article

Rick Warren’s Africa Problem
http://maxblumenthal.com/2009/01/rick-warrens-africa-problem



Warren’s man in Uganda is a charismatic pastor named Martin Ssempa. The head of the Makerere Community Church, a rapidly growing congregation, Ssempe enjoys close ties to his country’s First Lady, Janet Museveni, and is a favorite of the Bush White House. In the capitol of Kampala, Ssempa is known for his boisterous crusading. Ssempa’s stunts have included burning condoms in the name of Jesus and arranging the publication of names of homosexuals in cooperative local newspapers while lobbying for criminal penalties to imprison them.

Dr. Helen Epstein, a public health consultant who authored the book, The Invisible Cure: Why We’re Losing The Fight Against AIDS In Africa, met Ssempa in 2005. Epstein told me the preacher seemed gripped by paranoia, warning her of a secret witches coven that met under Lake Victoria. “Ssempa also spoke to me for a very long time about his fear of homosexual men and women,” Epstein said. “He seemed very personally terrified by their presence.”

When Warren unveiled his global AIDS initiative at a 2005 conference at his Saddleback Church, he cast Ssempa as his indispensable sidekick, assigning him to lead a breakout session on abstinence-only education as well as a seminar on AIDS prevention. Later, Ssempa delivered a keynote address, a speech so stirring it “had the audience on the edge of its seats,” according to Warren’s public relations agency. A year later, Ssempa returned to Saddleback Church to lead another seminar on AIDS. By this time, his bond with the Warrens had grown almost familial. “You are my brother, Martin, and I love you,” Rick Warren’s wife, Kay, said to Ssempa from the stage. Her voice trembled with emotion as she spoke and tears ran down her cheeks.

Joining Ssempa at Warren’s church were two key Bush administration officials who controlled the purse strings of the president’s newly minted $15 billion anti-AIDS initiative in Africa, PEPFAR. Ugandan first lady Janet Museveni also appeared through a videotaped address to tout the success of her country’s numerous church-based abstinence programs.

These Bush officials—Randall Tobias, the Department of State’s Global AIDS coordinator, and Claude Allen, the White House’s chief domestic policy advisor—are closely linked to the Christian right. Tobias, the so-called “global AIDS czar,” declared in 2004 that condoms “really have not been very effective,” and crusaded against prostitution, until he resigned in 2007 when he was exposed as a regular client of the D.C. Madam’s escort service. Allen, once an aide to the late Senator Jesse Helms, resigned in 2006 after he was arrested for felony thefts from retail stores.

During the early 1990s, when many African leaders denied the AIDS epidemic’s existence, Ugandan President Yoweri Museveni spoke openly about the importance of safe sex. With the help of local and international non-governmental organizations, he implemented an ambitious program emphasizing abstinence, monogamous relationships, and using condoms as the best ways to prevent the spread of AIDS. He called the program “ABC.” By 2003, Uganda’s AIDS rate plummeted 10 percent. The government’s free distribution of the “C” in ABC—condoms—proved central to the program’s success, according to Avert, an international AIDS charity.

On New Year’s Eve, 1999, Janet Museveni, who had become born-again, convened a massive stadium revival in Kampala to dedicate her country to the “lordship” of Jesus Christ. As midnight approached, the First Lady summoned a local pastor to the stage to anoint the nation. “We renounce idolatry, witchcraft, and Satanism in our land!” he proclaimed.

Two years later, Janet Museveni flew to Washington at the height of a heated congressional debate over PEPFAR. She carried in her hand a prepared message to distribute to Republicans. Abstinence was the golden bullet in her country’s fight against AIDS, she assured conservative lawmakers, denying the empirically proven success of her husband’s condom distribution program. Like magic, the Republican-dominated Congress authorized over $200 million for Uganda, but only for the exclusive promotion of abstinence education. Ssempa soon became the “special representative of the First Lady’s Task Force on AIDS in Uganda,” receiving $40,000 from the PEPFAR pot.

snip

But when Uganda’s Anglican bishops threatened to bolt from the Church of England because of its tolerant stance towards homosexuals, Warren parachuted into Kampala to confer international legitimacy on their protest. “The Church of England is wrong and I support the Church of Uganda on the boycott,” Warren proclaimed in March 2008. Declaring homosexuality an unnatural way of life, Warren flatly stated, “We shall not tolerate this aspect at all.”

Days later, Warren emerged so enthusiastic after a meeting with First Lady Museveni, he announced a plan to make Uganda a “Purpose Driven Nation.” “The future of Christianity is not Europe or North America, but Africa, Asia, and Latin America,” he told a cheering throng at Makerere University. Then, Ugandan Archbishop Henry Orombi rose and predicted, “Someday, we will have a purpose driven continent!”

Please read the entire article at: http://maxblumenthal.com/2009/01/rick-warrens-africa-problem

[Shallah Kali]

48. a bit more on warren

july 2009

Purpose Driven Politics: Rick Warren’s Civil Service

http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/376/purpose_driven_politics:_rick_warren%E2%80%99s_civil_service

“One of my goals is to take evangelicals back a century, to the 19th century,” Warren said in a January 2006 interview with Knight Ridder Newspapers. “That was a time of muscular Christianity that cared about every aspect of life.”

snip

His book, “The Purpose Driven Life,” has sold well over 20 million copies and is the highest-selling nonfiction book in the nation’s publishing history. Time magazine named him one of “15 World Leaders Who Mattered Most in 2004,” and in 2005 the magazine had him on its list of “100 Most Influential People in the World.”

Well-traveled, it sometimes seems that Warren is appearing everywhere at about the same time; from Africa to Washington, DC, from Europe to New York City, from YouTube to iTunes. Over the years, he has spoken at the United Nations, the World Economic Forum in Davos, the African Union, the Council on Foreign Relations, Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government, TIME’s Global Health Summit, and numerous congresses around the world.

In late-May, according to a press release posted on Christian Newswire, “Over 1,700 leading pastors, business and Christian institutional leaders from 39 countries and all 50 states gathered” at Lake Forest’s Saddleback Church for a three day Purpose Driven Network Summit organized, “to create The PEACE Coalition, a new international alliance of churches, businesses, ministries, universities, and other institutions.”

P.E.A.C.E. is an acronym for: Promote reconciliation; Equip servant leaders; Assist the poor; Care for the sick; and Educate the next generation. “For the past four years, thousands of members of Saddleback Church have been testing prototypes of the P.E.A.C.E. Plan around the world,” the release continued. “During this phase, called P.E.A.C.E 1.0, more than 7,700 members volunteered on over a thousand P.E.A.C.E. teams to serve in 68 countries. A dozen other Purpose Driven Network churches were invited to beta-test the plan with Saddleback. After studying the data reported back by these teams, Warren felt confident that the second phase, PEACE 2.0, was ready to be released with the public launch of the PEACE Coalition.”

According to Talk2Action’s Richard Bartholomew http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/6/16/11943/9932 , “Warren’s ’PEACE’ plan—his vision for the economic and spiritual development of Africa … has been ‘beta-tested’ in Rwanda … and Uganda (where Warren recently expressed his strong support for laws against homosexuality). Now Warren has apparently brought much of the US evangelical mainstream on board at a ‘PEACE Coalition Summit.’ Various pastors spoke enthusiastically about their wish to ’take’ countries like Mozambique and Nigeria.”

[Shallah Kali]

50. Video: Rick Warren Urges Followers To Emulate Hitler Youth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRctKSeyQ-s


Rick Warren Urges Christians to Be Dedicated as Nazis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fzwljL2LTQ

Follow Jesus Like Nazis Followed Hitler, Rick Warren Tells Stadium Crowd

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bruce-wilson/follow-jesus-like-nazis-f_b_158295.html

On April 17, 2005, at the southern California Anaheim Angels sports stadium thirty thousand Saddleback Church members, more than ever gathered in one spot, assembled to celebrate Saddleback's 25th anniversary and listened as Rick Warren announced his vision for the next 25 years of the church: the P.E.A.C.E. Plan.

Towards the close of his nearly one hour speech, Pastor Warren asked his followers to be as committed to Jesus as the young Nazi men and women who spelled out in mass formation with their bodies the words "Hitler, we are yours," in 1939 at the Munich Stadium, were committed to the Führer of the Third Reich, a major instigator of a World War that claimed 55 million lives. Rick Warren has exhorted Christians towards Nazi-like dedication in at least several public speeches and also during a one hour video recording of a talk by Warren, explaining his P.E.A.C.E. Plan, that is currently hosted on the official P.E.A.C.E. Plan website (see 'video page', "The Global P.E.A.C.E. Plan"). A version of the anecdote can also be found on page 357 of Rick Warren's 1995 book The Purpose Driven Church, which sold over one million copies.

During his Anaheim stadium speech Warren, sometimes called 'pastor Rick' talked about a number of visions and communications he had received from God. By calling on his church members to follow Jesus with the fanatical dedication with which the Nazis, or Hitler Youth, gave to Adolf Hitler, Rick Warren appeared to be in effect asking his Saddleback members to be fanatically dedicated to Warren's own leadership, given his role in divining God's intent for the Saddleback church flock. During his speech, Rick Warren also explained that God had personally instructed him to seek, for the good of the world, more influence, power and fame.

Warren moved on, from his celebration of Nazi dedication to purpose, and held up Lenin, and Chinese Red Guard efforts during the Cultural Revolution, as behavioral examples for his Saddleback flock, whom Warren called on to carry out a "revolution".

Concluding his motivational speech, the Saddleback Church founder instructed his ranks in the stadium to hold up signs, from their official programs, with the preprinted message "whatever it takes". Warren then introduced, as leader of the first nation on Earth in which the P.E.A.C.E. Plan would be implemented, Rwandan President Paul Kagame.

In 1998 under Kagame's leadership Rwanda, along with the now officially "Purpose Driven" nation of Uganda, invaded the Democratic Republic of The Congo, touching off a conflict that has claimed more civilian lives than any since World War Two. On December 12, 2008, the United Nations accused Rwanda of aiding Congolese warlord Laurent Nkunda, accused of massacres and human rights violations and whose recent offensive has created several hundred thousand Congolese refugees.

In March 2008, Rick Warren's Saddleback launched an official national "Purpose Driven Living" program in Uganda, a country which was indicted in 2005 by the International Criminal Court for perpetrating "massive" human rights violations by invading and looting the natural riches of the Congo. Uganda is know for brutalizing its own population too. In the late 1990s under president Yowerie Museveni, whose wife Janet Museveni has spoken at Saddleback Church conferences, the Ugandan military drove upwards of two million Acholi tribe members in Northern Uganda, through a terror campaign of massacres and bombing, into crowded concentration camps on the Congo-Uganda border where many languish to this day, in what one Former Undersecretary for the UN has described as an ongoing, slow genocide.

snip

Though Warren's speech was in the idiom of Christianity, he did not seek to inspire his Saddleback audience with examples of great religious leaders who have changed history through persuasion or other nonviolent approaches. Rick Warren looked to 20th century exemplars of vision and dedication but not to Mohatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King, or any other religious leaders.

With more than a hint of admiration in his voice, pastor Warren described how in 1939 in a packed Munich Stadium before the leader of the Third Reich, young brown-shirted men and women spelled out in formation, with their bodies, words in German which read "Hitler, we are yours."

"And they nearly took the world, " pastor Rick told the stadium crowd. He moved on to quote another inspirational example from the 20th Century, Lenin, who said 'give me 100 committed, totally committed men and I'll change the world.' Once again Warren observed, "They nearly did."

Having cited dedication and zeal of young Nazis and the efficacy of Bolshevik Revolutionaries, Warren moved on to describe how the sayings of Chairman Mao, printed up in the "Little Red Book", had helped propel the revolutionary fervor of the Chinese Red Guard who had carried out the violent, anarchic revolutionary spasm known as the Cultural Revolution.

With those examples fresh in his audiences mind, Rick Warren instructed the crowd of his thirty thousand to hold up pre-printed signs, within their programs, white letters against a red background, that said "Whatever it takes."

Looking out at the crowd Warren enthused, "I'm looking at a stadium full of people who are saying, 'whatever it takes, God'.

[donco6]

47. What's to "take sides" about?

They want to fucking KILL people, you moron. (Speaking to Warren, not you, grits).

[ShortnFiery]

49. That's demented. They need their own special place ... away from civilized people. eom

[Juche]

51. He took sides on Terry Schiavo and Prop 8

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Warren#Political_and_social_views

His statement about not taking sides is a lie. A minute on google proves that.


Keep in mind Warren is supposedly one of the moderates in the evangelical movement.

[Shallah Kali]

54. He doesn't froth at the mouth like the others do so he must be moderate

instead he froths at the brain

[Starry Messenger]

55. He's not a moderate.

He's a rebranded dominionist. They finally figured out that creepy mean fucks like Robertson and Dobson weren't bringing in new blood. So they went with The Smiler. He's a con man.