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Make no mistake: GOP is paying trolls to "Blog Attack"

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The Sushi Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 07:21 PM
Original message
Make no mistake: GOP is paying trolls to "Blog Attack"
This is unbelievable. We always knew that there were right-wing political hacks trolling the blogosphere, but this is a new low.

There's a company called Advantage Consultants that's offering up "professional blog warriors" to "flood the zone" with comments. In short, astro-turf trolls for the blogosphere.

More at: http://current.com/1u0rq4c
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. I actually knew of one. lol It was a neighbor. This fat, really unfunny idiot
I found out about it by accident. This was about 10 years ago. He'd go into Democratic websites and cause havoc.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. Well, we kinda knew.
Not supposed to talk about it, but whenever there's an election or a major issue coming for a vote, this place gets nutty and not just with newbies. It isn't that hard to acquire the magic thousand posts.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. I have noticed a couple of Republicans in here.
How do I know? Easy. You press and press them and they reach a point where they're so angry they can't pretend anymore. Then you have fun with them ----> :spank:
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Good strategy, unless of course they have some self control.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. True. nt
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. Not like they are renowned for their self control, though.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #35
45. True as well. They are a bit on the looney side
Look at Dick Cheney. He gives the impression of having self-control, but then all of a sudden he grimaces and before you know it, he's saying some very ugly words.

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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #45
109. He grimaces ALL THE TIME. How do you distinguish from the pre-ugly word grimace
and the other grimace?

;)
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #28
77. You're funny.
Try harder.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #77
83. Thanks.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #77
134. with you on that one....found that humorous as well....had a good save though in the next post...
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Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #24
93. Someone should list them.
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #93
116. Are you volunteering?
:shrug:
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #24
169. Here are some typical tactics I have come across:
What I call drive by fruiting. They pop into a thread and drop a little bomb, usually as an early responder or they will respond to the first response to get early exposure. You will notice that when they respond to an early responder, many times their response pertains to the OP instead of the post they are responding to. They drop their little bomb and then nothing.

Often they will ask questions like, "Does Obama really like the progressives." or say things like "Maybe Obama doesnt like what the lefty's are saying."

They dont respond to questions. For example, there are a lot of posters now that are outright attacking progressives. But when you ask them to explain which progressive issues they disagree with, they wont answer. I cant think of a progressive issue that a true centrist wouldnt agree with.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
91. What has his weight got to do with it? And have you posted a picture of yourself?
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crazyjoe Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #1
98. so you don't like fat people?
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
118. More accurately, wouldn't that be -
"He'd go into Democratic websites and be an ass, thinking he was causing havoc."
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pundaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
168. Hey, I'm a fat, riotously funny, insightful guy
See fat isn't part of the problem. Why put divisions where they are not needed?
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
176. "this really fat, smelly, ugly, hairy, unfunny, effeminate, gravely voiced, cockeyed..."
I'd recommend keeping certain adjectives in your head - they don't have the effect you may think they do.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #176
183. I resent that. I am NOT unfunny.
Nor hairy, unfortunately.
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. Isn't that just cheesiest thing in the universe? nt
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
39. Yes, cheesy. Like orange streaks of cheeto-coating
wiped on urine stained sweatpants type of cheesy.
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corpseratemedia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #39
68. very nice repub visual
:puke:

yet also true
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. Well, it isn't exclusive to any political persuasion, but thanks.
For the record, I only very rarely eat cheetos by the computer, and my pajamas are always clean. :D
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #70
111. I've found that if you only eat Cheetos when you're naked you don't have that problem.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #70
120. You wear pajamas?
Well la di da. Ain't you the classy one.

:evilgrin:
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #39
194. Lady Gagging here!
:puke:
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PSPS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
3. This is nothing new
There's at least one outfit that advertises its services to talk show clients. They have people who will "call in" and say whatever is requested.

It's a pretty hard slog for them on blogs and other internet forums, though. First, they can be immediately refuted. Second, their use of hackneyed RW talking points (sometimes wholesale cut-and-paste) makes them easy to spot, even here on DU where there are a few with very high post counts.
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pscot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. How much does it pay?
For information purposes only, of course. My principles are not for sale. At least nobody has ever offered to buy them.
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. so are we mailed the talk'n points or do we really have to work for their money.. they dont, why
should we.. errr ah...they
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
195. I propose we alll hire on and go after their websites
Claim ignorance and inability to read the instructions.
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. I posted this last year and was attacked as paranoid. Glad to see
it is finally out there.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. ya...i thought it was posted here awhile back.
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rudy23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. Me, too. Look at my journal.
Except, I don't think it's just coming from the right.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. Netvocates was the pioneer outfit
and would hire people to Astroturf blogs in favor of the corporations that hired them. Quite a few of us thought they'd also been hired at least by individual candidates for office.

Here's a synposis of who they are: http://www.cybersoc.com/2006/05/behind_netvocat.html

An article about them at http://peakenergy.blogspot.com/2006/06/netvocates-priva... seems to tell us that old Chip has learned his lesson about not leaving such an easy to follow trail through cyberspace.
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
48. it's insane --go GD Presidential and anything challenging the obvious scams is deemed paranoid
they really suck
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
121. And guess who was doing the attacking... nt
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Techn0Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
162. The poeple who attacked you as paranoid....
or at least some of them.... might well have been paid to do so.

I'm just sayin' ....
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yodoobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
6. Where do you apply for this sort of thing?
We should all do it.

Just do it really really badly and make'm look like idiots.

That way, you earn money and advance our side.

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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
22. Hmm
Interesting idea. You'd have to walk a tightrope though. Bad enough to make them look like idiots to at least a large segment of readers, but not so bad that you lose the job.
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bejamin wood Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #22
181. Someone here should go covert
...then give a heads up on opperations...
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
66. I think it would be better to learn organizing from them
There are apparently a lot of people who go around and teach right-wingers how to organize (since there is funding for them.) That is probably a lot more valuable than posting on web sites, but it does require an extra level of trickster expertise.
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tblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #6
96. Yeah, I could use the money. We could use some kinda code to undermine their project.
Like having the first letter of each sentence spell something like "Cheney loves Osama" or "Palin moons Levi."

And get paid to do it? Dang! Could be fun!
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Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
217. I think progressives/liberals...
are already doing it. Some of the blog entries I've seen can't possibly be written by anybody who didn't want to paint the Right as complete, drooling morons.
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yodoobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
7. dup
Edited on Sun Nov-29-09 07:36 PM by yodoobo

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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. we have certainly learned our lessons through out the years....
their problem is we can now spot them a mile away.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
9. The GOP paid consultants to convince online Naderites in 2000 to 'keep the faith.'
Edited on Sun Nov-29-09 07:37 PM by onehandle
After that success, they've been in our midst perpetually.
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
203. !
n/t
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
12. same thing happens on talk radio and probably call in TV like CSPAN
when you're listening to a right wing talk radio show late on friday night (don't ask) and it's real slow and some are drunk and all of a sudden half a dozen very lucid undrunk right wingers call in in a row and follow each other up with all the current talking points on the issue, reinforcing each other, one has to wonder which right wing think tank basement they're calling from.

that's been going on for many years.
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brewens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
49. I remember real well when they put in the separate call in lines at CSPAN.
It seems like it was when Clinton was running against Bush or shortly after he was elected. They were getting hammered with right wing call but their viewer surveys were evenly split. One third each Democrat, Republican and independent.
One morning two ladies called in and read the same right-wing talking points word for word. Brian Lamb got pissed and they put in the separate lines with new rules. Those particular ladies may not have been paid but someone was putting out some bucks to run phone banks or buy dialing systems.
I'd be surprised if they weren't doing it now.
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #49
55. i just heard something like that recently where the RW caller repeated the same point
and accidentally referred to the previous caller as "my friend" - maybe she was referring to an ideological friend but it sounded like a mistake she regretted.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
13. The climate change swarm will be here probably through Obama's administration
Although I think that after Copenhagen and US climate change legislation is passed the swarm will thin down a bit.
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
56. this is part of the obstruction of that climate change legislation
and it may not get passed
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
14. Yep and they get paid.
I have tried to warn while walking the tightrope of the rules, which they take advantage of.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Understood. It can be treacherous. nt
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
15. Yes, I'm aware of the existence of these. I see some here, at times, I think are suspicious
I have to wonder at some who show up and post to many threads with their RW talking points in a short period of time (like 20 posts in an hour just after registering). Those don't last long. There are others I read with high post counts that make me wonder if my party has really moved this far right or if there is something else at work.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
16. You can tell if you ever look at the comments at any of the news sites. Toxic.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
17. Funny. I remember Rush accusing anyone with a right of Hitler viewpoint of being a 'seminar' caller
I've not found a place to work that from the left. But his awareness of 'seminar' callers was interesting.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
62. OOps, meant left of Hitler viewpoint above. Editing period expired nt
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
20. I'm glad we have Elad and Grovelbot preventing any of these RW "warriors" from posting here...
That's all.

I love DU!

:loveya:
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #20
47. Self delete
Edited on Sun Nov-29-09 08:51 PM by Quantess
I posted on the wrong thread.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
202. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
25. Really if you came across one wouldn't you know he was right wing
and ignore the asinine filth they post.
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
26. Maybe forums should require disclosure.
When someone signs up they should be required to answer whether or not they are being paid to post there and notified that
  • they are not allowed to join if they can't or won't answer honestly
  • an icon next to their user name will indicate that they are a paid advertiser
  • they will be charged X amount for each post.
  • if they join without answering honestly they will be expelled and charged double for their posts.
People may lie but they could face possible legal recourse if they do. Lawsuits could also be brought against their employer for encouraging theft of services.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #26
105. That seems like a good idea to me. (nt)
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GoCubsGo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
27. And, now that we all know for certain that these creatures exist...
We should all vow not to respond to them. If it's an obvious troll, don't reply. Don't feed them. Point out to others that they are nothing but paid hacks to be put on ignore, but be sure to do so as your own post, rather than a response to theirs'. Don't give them any more opportunities to cash in.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. That's no fun!


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GoCubsGo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #30
41. You are right!
See Warren's post and my reply below. Y'all made me see this in a whole new way. Thank you! Off to drain the GOP's coffers and have fun at the same time...
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phasma ex machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #30
80. My favorite Faux Noose O RLY? factor pic
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juno jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #80
146. The thing is, there's no reflection.
It's called 'acting'. :evilgrin:
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #30
148. Swampie, I'll grant you Oscar may be a Libertarian,
but now way no how is he a Repuke! He has far too much compassion and manners for that! :hi:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #30
199. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. Actually, wouldn't that mean that every dumb argument you engage them in, drains the GOP's coffers?
Seems like a win-win.
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GoCubsGo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. Good point!
Didn't think of that! I was thinking more of stifling the B.S., and making the BSers go broke. Your idea is better.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. They're probably going to spend it on Cheetohs and inflatable dates.
I'm not sure what the net political effect of that is, but it's probably good for the economy.
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GoCubsGo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. LOL!!!
I was thinking it would be a be a boon to the health care industry, what with eating all those Cheetohs and the obesity-related diseases their excessive consumption will cause. But, imagine how much it would cost the taxpayers to send the paramedics to pry them from their chairs in Mommy's basement, so they could schlep them off to the hospital to be treated for those heart attacks. Hmmmm....
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #43
57. Don't forget their blow-up dolls!
:D


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davidpdx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #57
82. You need to do one for that gal that was Miss California
A doll with a string, you pull the string and you hear the same thing over and over again..

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #40
207. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #27
44. they are annoying and pesky - they come in and attack
various posters on particular threads - their MO is disgusting and perverse. Full of strawman and accusatory comments -

my ignore list has grown exponentially in the past few months.

They are definitely wearying.

:hi:
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #44
51. the worst is they attack the messenger,try to deflect and ignore the topic
what else can they do when confronted with cold hard fact
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #51
61. it's like they want some threads to get locked - so that the truth
doesn't last too long - attempting to incite flamewars and destroy threads with information they just can abide

:shrug:
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #44
71. I'd rather keep an eye on them than put them on ignore
Besides, you can also see whether you may have misjudged them, or if their Rovian tricks are accelerating.
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
31. Too bad there aren't any jobs like this for Liberals.
I could use one, but I value what's left of my soul too much to shill for repukes. Never was any good at lying either.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #31
53. Would you really want to earn money this dishonestly?
I hope someday we have laws against paying for people to shill like this. There is laws when it comes to gambling. I think we need to extend those laws.
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #53
65. In the service of ideology I believed in, sure.
I don't think any ideology that I favor will ever be subsidized by the powerful people that can afford such things.
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #53
123. No, I want to earn it honestly
By shilling for what I actually believe in. That's why I said Liberal jobs.

When I worked for a software company that decided it wanted to market to the religious reich, that's the closest I ever want to get to selling my soul. And even then I managed to get through it without ever advocating any of their sick beliefs.
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conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #31
177. There are
Go to GD :P and you can see the Obamabauts cheering him on foreverything he does and defending against anything that puts him in a bad lite.
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
32. Yeah, and sometimes I think they've been 'winning' here.
I've lately been astounded at some of the arguments I see on DU and often wonder is the disruption isn't deliberate.
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #32
151. Absolutely!
I've been shocked by the center-right turn this site has taken since the last election, and have strongly suspected paid dissidents, trolls, and instigators.
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Kaleva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
33. It appears that Advantage Consultants will also do work for liberals.
I don't see anything in the article or company info that states or implies Advantage Consultants will only work for the GOP or right wing organizations.
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MrsCorleone Donating Member (844 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #33
124. Unfortunately, a true liberal message tends to hurt big corporations' bottom lines, so
there is little incentive to fund the left. Per usual, it'll be up to the actual people to get our message out there.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
36. Make no mistake, so does The White House.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/04/10-1

So does the Health Insurance Industry.

So does anyone who can pay the fee.

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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
37. I suspect we have a few of them here.
Look at all the Global Warming denialists.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. Yeah, weird.
They're popping up like some sort of strange mushroom.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #42
58. How about the Rush Limbaugh apologists?
"He's got his First Amendment rights! Screech! Scream!
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #58
73. He does have first amendment rights;
but that doesn't mean he's not an irresponsible, flaming butt-turd.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #73
75. There is a line there as
there is with all our Constitutional rights and I believe he has crossed it as well as many other rabble rousers. It's time for our Constitutional lawyers and court to define it as it applies in our times. The Constitution and its amendments are not there as a shield for wrong doers to hide behind. This happened in Germany before the Nazis under the shield of legality took over stretching those laws to and beyond the limits and to the point where the Weimar Republic no longer existed. We have come close to this with the Bush administration. Rush and his minions are still trying.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #58
126. And the Cindy Sheehan haters
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #37
50. Some of them are 1000+ posters.
There are 2 that I'm thinking of.

It really isn't hard for a stealth troll to get to 1000 posts.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #50
60. It's not that hard. There's the Lounge and other special interest forums
that can accomplish that. Maybe the thousand post minimum should just apply to GD, GDP, and LBN. That would slow them down. However, it isn't up to me to tell the administrators what to do. They could consider this a suggestion though.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #50
128. OMC
Took far too long before he was finally tombstoned.
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tnlefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #128
210. Really? I missed that.
Could you please share any info. about what caused the flameout?
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #210
211. Not sure what caused the ts
There have been several threads about it. He is also posting on another website bragging about how he fooled us for so long.
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #211
212. But I seriously doubt anyone paid OMC for posting here.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
46. I wish we had time for peace.
Just not enough time for peace.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
52. I knew they were organized to talk certain points (germany's economy is bad because it is a liberal
place **a lie**, Nazis were socialists **a lie**, etc.). But I wasn't sure how professional they were. Now we have proof that there is a market out there that will pay for such liars. Pathetic.
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Kingofalldems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
54. They were all over DU this weekend
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #54
59. If I were a computer wonk, I would trace their ISPs and beyond to find
out exactly which Borg nest they come from. Fortunately, for them, I don't know how to do that.
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
63. Aren't these people irrelevant if you argue intelligently?
In fact, they are actually helpful. If you politely deconstruct their arguments - point out but otherwise ignore the personal attacks and derailing atempts - and respond to the actual arguments they put forth... won't the ultimate outcome be the same as that of a legitimate conversation?

It will take a little longer to get there, sure, but it's basically exercise for the immune system of our ideology. The low-hanging fruit of actual objections WILL be picked and used, in order to appear less like a troll - such debate strengthens arguments.

I think the best thing to do is, as I said above, point out but otherwise ignore the mean-spirited, provocative sections of the post. Regular posters do this as well as trolls, and pointing it out may help them become better and more civil discussion participants. In contrast, calling someone a troll/shill is not productive in any case. Let me qualify that though, by saying that it is ok to point out a pattern of support for an idea or institution in a poster's discussions. Just not to call them a troll or shill. Biased, sure.
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #63
101. the thing is they troll then run away, they will not engage alot of the time
and they travel in swarms and bully, even if your argument is correct and just it makes little difference
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #63
127. I try to do that,
but my inner asshole always manages to butt in.

I've never really been good with people.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
64. Well let the little turds show up here. We'll hose 'em off the patio in
no time flat.

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mullard12ax7 Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
67. You can find them all at...
not the usual places, check out yahoo buzz if you feel like vomiting. It'll only take a few minutes and you'll never go to that site again, it's infested.
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eShirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
69. I thought everyone knew that years ago?
:shrug:
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Lagomorph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
72. And the Democrats aren't?
Edited on Sun Nov-29-09 10:54 PM by Lagomorph
Welcome to politics.

Let's DU this and DU that, lol!
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #72
74. Asking people to "DU" polls
is not the same as paying people to disrupt forums.
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #74
92. But it is the same as asking people to "freep" polls.
It's exactly the same.
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #92
214. I never said it wasn't. n/t
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #214
219. Damn good point.
And in retrospect, I seem to have gotten off-point there, huh.
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Lagomorph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #74
206. When you make an effort to skew polls or forum comments...
...other people are going to make an effort to do the same for their own purposes.

Apparently, it is effective enough to create a new jobs program in a growing market.

The idea that democrats don't have professional shit disturbers is ludicrous.
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live love laugh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
76. I play cards on Yahoo Games--guy there named Obama_the_Skank
incessantly spews filth and lies in the lobby of just one of the games. He is there night and day. Most argue with him but there are also now a few clones. Like today, one was there who made this comment: "How's that hopey-changey thing workin' out for you"? One guy said it was better than having Bush in office. Lot of racists there too. I know they are here but this is one sign they are everywhere in cyberspace,
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pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #76
188. On pokerstars the chat can get quite rude. However
cultural or racial comments will get your chat rights taken away or if bad enough your account barred. Getting barred is no small deal as they may have lots of your money in their "bank" and can be a little slow to return it. Another interesting thing is curse words are automatically rewritten into a type of code like F*** just like a password. So hyphens ** and other signs are used to beat the system. Spelling stuff like "F*u*c*k Off" is common along with the normal use of first letter only like FO or FU which should be responded to by "You'd never go back to dogs".
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
78. It doesn't do them much good
on here. They're so obviously parroting stupid talking points that they go down with cold pizza as a headstone..hopefully sooner than later.
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Techn0Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
79. This has been going on a LONG time....
Edited on Mon Nov-30-09 12:17 AM by Techn0Girl
and it's not just political blogs. Huge corps and celebs use companies like this all the time.

Wonder how memes like "The flu is mutating!" get spread about. Astroturfing is one way it gets done.

Fake religions do it as well.
Say something bad about Scientology anywhere it will get noticed on the web.
Watch what happens.
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agentS Donating Member (922 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
81. So that's the organization that pays these Yahoo chat users
I knew it! No one can be that wedded to an ideology without getting something in return.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 03:21 AM
Response to Original message
84. As usual, cheating is their answer . . .
and it looks like we've had one or two or more TROLLS at DU over the holiday --

time on their hands?

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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #84
95. +1
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 06:22 AM
Response to Original message
85. You can always tell exactly when the word went out to the troops.
You read a political article then turn to the comments. At first they seem OK, with a diversity of views, mostly "normal" in tone. Then, at some point there is suddenly a 15-minute burst of boneheaded comments from wingnuts. Comment after comment of deranged nonsense. Then the barrage stops as suddenly as it started and the comments go back to being normal again.

I figure these outbursts of wingnuttery come immediately after some "Freep this poll!" type post goes up on a wingnut site. Or maybe it's more organized than that.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 06:26 AM
Response to Original message
86. The more they pay
the worse the Rethugs look in the polls. Now that'a value for money. :puke:
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PHIMG Donating Member (814 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
87. pro-Likud (far Right Isreal) groups pioneered this n/t
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #87
108. Yeah we know.
When Lebanon and Israel had their recent conflict there were a whole bunch of posters who magically showed up and screamed "anti-semite" at anyone who though that the blame was not solely on the shoulders of the Lebanese.
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Techn0Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #87
140. That sounds suspiciously like astroturfing from a middle east lobby
I'm just saying ....
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
88. I wonder if some of them are here on DU
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Puzzler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
89. I thought so...
... I posted a comment last week about how many of The Guardian articles seem to be blitzed by wingnuts in the comments sections (below the articles). It didn't make sense that so many wingnuts would be reading Guardian articles all day, and then posting RW comments often within minutes of the article's publication.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
90. For the most part, they are wasting their time on DU
My ignore list prove it.........more and more granite cookies being served up.
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cadmium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
94. Thanks for the link. A lot pretend to be "real progressives" nt
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #94
102. I agree, they try to make us look bad
Pretend to be on the left and proceed to be unreasonable. If they're going to do it, they will do clever things like that.
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #94
133. ....and are the ones who are most effective.
The hyper-critical among us. The same as if, for instance, you wanted to disrupt a RW site. Would your posts reflect left-leaning ideals, or would you insert ultra right-leaning ideals and challenge the idealogical purity of someone who might happen disagree with you?

Sound familiar?


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cadmium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #133
200. That would be the first thing I would do. Sow dissension nt
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
97. They have been doing it all along..
but now they are desperate and they are trying to influence the people who don't know all of the facts about these republicons ,they make up their own facts.
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
99. I think they spend lots of time on Twitter
The "Morans" following the #tcot hashtag all sound like hired thugs.

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MrsCorleone Donating Member (844 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #99
117. Right after Obama took office, I noticed DU became awfully anti-Twitter.
In the meantime, religious groups & RWers have flooded Twitter. More often than not, they're controlling what the MSM picks up. I think it's important that DUers get Twitter accounts & push back.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #117
131. Life is too short for Twitter. And, no, I'm not a RW troll, paid or otherwise. I'm just old. nt
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MrsCorleone Donating Member (844 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #131
135. Twitter is not for everybody, but it's quickly becoming the source that shapes the MSM message.
I'm not calling you a troll, but trolls have been setting the tone here on DU, I believe to discourage members from competing with them in a medium that has great political potential.

:hi:
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Techn0Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #135
141. Twitter only got big because of an immense advertising campaign....
that included massive paid-for blog posts.
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MrsCorleone Donating Member (844 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #141
150. With all due respect, who cares how Twitter got to where it is. It has taken on a life of its own.
Increasingly, young voters (and some older) are using Twitter as a primary info source, along with Facebook. It is what it is. Why not use it?

I have come across so many brilliant progressive posts here on DU. It's such a shame that many outside of this site will never read them.
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Techn0Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #150
156. Obviously you care about twitter ...
The reason to care why something got big is because that's one of the ways that you know that it is a sham. If a company spends tens and tens of millions to promote a product then that maybe gives you an indication of how poor the product actually is.

Ever notice that the most hyped up moves are absolutely the worst ? Right. Same thing.

People post o DU because we need to say what we say in far more than 150 characters. Twitter has no place in such an environment. In the context of DU, twitter is not only useless - it;s ridiculous - which won't prevent the snake-oil salesmen from selling it anyway .

Anyone who uses 150 character bursts for information as a "primary info source" for politics needs to wrap themselves up in a Snuggie, wipe the drool of their mouths with a Sham-WOW and settle back into their Lazy-Boys and let intelligent people handle the politics.
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MrsCorleone Donating Member (844 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #156
165. Again, you are missing the point. Twitter, regardless of how it got so big, is a major
social networking site. You and I cannot change that. Will it burn out eventually. It's very likely. Take a look at MySpace. But, today its influence is very real.

Turning your nose up at it merely gives the corporate funded trolls and, sadly, freeper/teabaggers control of the message. Not a smart thing, IMO.

I agree that DUers have a lot to say. As I mentioned earlier, there are so many brilliant progressive posts here that go unread by so many outside of DU. Why not post links to some of these on Twitter (or Facebook) so that, just maybe, you can expand the conversation to those who are spoon-fed MSM nonsense.

BTW, I get your disdain for the over-hyped and mass marketed. I feel the same. :hi:

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Techn0Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #165
171. "Social Networking" is like Amway ....
It's a Ponzi pyramid scheme and only the people at the top - who sell advertising - actually benefit. Anyone who really believes that hey have 500 MySpace friends isn't really participating in political discourse. Myspace is mostly a place for bad bands with even worse web pages.

DU IS social media for those who actually have something to say. There is no need for anyone here to go to MySpace. Anyone really interested in political discussion will go to places like DU.

You keep claiming that right wing groups have "control of the message" but I have not seen anything to really back that up. Rather, instead this election was won by the Obama's campaign's use of the internet to create their own specialized site that brought people together. It wasn't Myspace that won this election - it was the Obama for America web site. There is no reason to believe that right wing groups are in any way experienced with regards to the internet and every reason to believe otherwise.

I am not saying that one should discount the Internet for bringing people together and getting the message out, rather I am saying that places like MySpace , Twitter and Facebook are all Corporate B.S who's only purpose is to get Unthinking Tools to buy more crap.

That's why OFA didn't really use any of the above - they built their own site.




You claim that the right wing has control over
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MrsCorleone Donating Member (844 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #171
182. Techn0Girl, it is clear that I have struck a nerve with you regarding
my encouragement of DUers to push back. Like it or not, Twitter and Facebook are very popular and are increasingly used to sway public opinion. Are they fundamentally a revenue generator? Of course. They are businesses. But you can utilize it to open up discussion of progressive causes, especially since we're so underrepresented in the corporately owned world of media.

The right wing does have control of the message. You need only turn on the TV machine or the radio to see/hear that the news is no longer news. It is almost all corporate PR. I think RW radio corporate radio now makes up about 90% of the radio market. Why is that? Take a look at blue metropolitan cities. Why so few liberal talk, if any at all? Is it because we're all RWers? No, it's because of media consolidation into the hands of so so few. Those who now control the message are large industries with big coffers.

During the last election, Obama's site was a centerpiece, but it would be naive not to give equal credit to progressive bloggers and networking sites. The internet WAS once a place where the average person HAD a slight upper hand in terms of real public sentiment. Take a serious look around these social networking sites now. Corporate PR is making inroads. With all of the important legislation coming up and an election in 2010, why are you so determined to discourage the progressive voice?

The point of this back and forth with you was merely to report my observations regarding corporate trolling here on DU and on popular networking sites such as Facebook and Twitter, and to suggest that we open up some progressive DU discussions to your "unthinking tools", many of whom have never heard of DU. Keep in mind that these "tools" vote, too.

Regarding Myspace, see my previous post.



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Techn0Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #182
185. Where to begin....
MySpace , Twitter and Facebook and all such ilk are corporate tools owned by corporate denizens. For heaven's sake - Murdock owns Myspace. I am not trying to stifle Progressive thought as you state, but rather keep it out of Corporate hands.

Regarding right wing control of the media : You mash up issues like you were making a batch of garlic potatoes. You confuse right wing control of the media with an assumed "necessity" of Progressives needing to be on more Corporate owned media. The reasons right wingers have control of the media has nothing to do with them being on Twatter or MyFace (which they are not) but rather because they have bought up all the radio and television stations and networks. Apples and Oranges. Getting left wingers on even more Corporate owned media like Twatter will not only NOT increase our voice - it will stifle it. Obama For America didn't Twit their way to victory - they made their own communication channel and used it effectively.

Regarding people who vote vs. people who twit their lives away. People who vote, in general , don't spend their days gaining "friends" on MyFace. They don't Twit their time away listening to the latest twats from Paris Hilton. People who really matter simply do not do those things. Those kind of people ore the 21st century of Joe Six-Pack and they will remain i their Lazy Boys and consume whatever garbage Corporate media shoves into their heads. They. Don't. Matter.

The internet can and should be used by Progressives. Indeed it is out latest best hope for getting our message out. But we need to do it independently - NOT by using Corporatized social media. Because THAT channel can and will be shut down any time anything is said that interferes with profits - which makes Twatter, MyFace and Spacebook all completely USELESS>

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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #117
136. Because anything important enough to be shared can be said in
140 characters or less.

:eyes:

Twitter is for twits.
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MrsCorleone Donating Member (844 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #136
137. It's not that difficult to succinctly deliver a thought or message. I'm surprised by
your complacent attitude. Can't complain about the state of the country if you eschew the tools to change it.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #137
138. Twitter isn't a tool - it's a toy. A fad. And five years from now, nobody
will remember it ever existed.
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MrsCorleone Donating Member (844 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #138
139. Yet, this toy is utilized by much of the MSM. We have an election next year.
Five years of complacency can do a lot of damage.

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Techn0Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #137
158. You seem really really ... ummm... sold on twitter....
Twitter isn't a tool to change the country LMAO.

It's a tool to get other tools to drive in money for it's creators.
If you don't understand - or don't claim to understand why 150 characters is NOT enough for real discourse ... then you and the rest of the people here will always have a fundamental inability to communicate with each other.
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MrsCorleone Donating Member (844 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #158
166. See my reply too you, post #165. nt
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Techn0Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #117
159. Right wing and religous groupd on Twitter ? WTF?
Conservative religious groups can barely operate a toaster let operate within the nuances of so called alone "social media".
I can't help but notice that succeeded in making at least 6 posts about twitter in a thread having nothing to do with it.

I also notice that you are careful to cut your thoughts to 140 or so characters.
Nice advertising
at least that's what I would call it if I didn't know otherwise ... of course
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mstinamotorcity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
100. No surprise
like i always say them suckers stick together no matter what. They practice warfare constantly. Thanks for keeping us up on the chump charlies once again.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
103. This became REALLY obvious to when I started noticing how
DU screen names I had never seen before were behind the majority of anti-Obama and anti-Dem posts, and they always take federal holidays (and often Sundays) off. And they also contribute nothing noticeable to any threads other than their own disruptive ones - I can tell because, though I have a REALLY long Ignore list full of suspects, very few "normal" threads have Ignored people on them, lol.

They are paid. And they are many.
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #103
122. I noticed that, too
Edited on Mon Nov-30-09 01:04 PM by Wednesdays
The same people seem to be involved in the "flamefest" threads, regardless of topic. But take ordinary everyday threads, and they're nowhere to be found.

Edit: google some of them: {their DU username} at site "democraticunderground.com"...you'll see what I mean. Your average DUer will show postings across a variety of subjects, while the trolls will show a very narrow range.







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Techn0Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #122
144. I'm noticing that on the Health forum....
Edited on Mon Nov-30-09 02:30 PM by Techn0Girl
Post ANYTHING negative about H1N1 vaccine or just go ahead and post a news article that shows H1N1 declining and you will immediately be set upon with not only several unrecs but the same exact five or so people who will engage anyone in a troll fest. Those very same people post almost exclusively on the Health board and almost exclusively on H1N1 topics.

Try it now. Find an article that says H1N1 is either declining or no longer a major health threat. Post it and watch what happens. Watch who responds.

I'll tell you something else. A lot of the paid for bloggers on various boards are long time forum members because the craig's list ads that solicit for such postings specifically ask for people with high post counts and then pay them accordingly.

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Prometheuspan Donating Member (168 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #144
190. okay. running test...
"Post ANYTHING negative about H1N1 "
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #190
215. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #190
220. Okay, how about "H1N1 SUCKS!"
Now, allow me to duck while the flames come roaring in. :hide:
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
104. I knew a motherfucker on a gaming board...guy would post non-stop.
Edited on Mon Nov-30-09 12:19 PM by YOY
Claimed to be a father of one and worked in a liquor store...but posted motherfucking nonstop.

Insane childish shit too. If you called him on it he'd start with the "I KNOW THE MODS!!!" crap and always insulted to the hilt. I p0wned him several times but he's just keep fucking yammering. I mean his excuse for the Iraq invasion was some shitty asshole's "I know people" blog. ("SEE THERE REALLY WERE WMDS!!!")

His never ending excuses for not enlisting were hilarious...I think that every time he posted his pseudopatriotism shit I would post "Enlist b*tch!"

THere was actually a FRee Republic post saluting the asshammer who finally got booted from the board.

'Riyan' had to be getting paid for it. That guy was the scourge of that board. Posting non-stop.

That being said, there are a couple of Ron Paul freaks here at times...I have no idea what the fuck they hope to gain from being here.
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
106. USENET is the training ground for this.
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bushalert Donating Member (156 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
107. Newsvine has been taken over by repugs.
It is absolutely flooded with repug posts. I would say that at least 75% of the posts on newsvine are anti-Obama. I've been doing my best to counter the bs.
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Prometheuspan Donating Member (168 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #107
155. newsvine is scum on a stick
they deleted my account without cause, and without me breaking rules, refused to answer my querries, and all because I was providing depth science fact information inconvenient to the propaganda warriors on both sides.

Newsvine has lost all credibility. Like many other such outlets, they exist to keep the argument going, not to help people find solutions or to work on problems or etc. By not posting me anything in my mail they proved that they had not one good reason to delete me, and by not responding they proved that they knew it.

You can go argue over there if you wish, but i would not reccommend it, theres a reason why newsvine is all repugs, its because newsvine deletes factual information and the people who provide it.



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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
110. And the funniest thing? They think it makes a difference and is worth paying for.
Seriously - who could they possibly be influencing?

What a waste of time and money.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #110
129. Perhaps the stratagem is to blur the lines between Dem & Repub....
... in search of "moderates," cause that's what both Name Brands need: not so far Right types, since they're so overtly hateful, and a great deal less anti-war/anti-corporate types who, with their criticism, reveal the current admin to be yet another typical American pres admin carrying on w/ways of Empire. More 'moderates' means those who oppose establishment values are more easily marginalized/vilified, which is precisely what vested interests want: less opposition
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Techn0Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #110
147. They do it because it works.
Just like advertising works. Just like those late night TV ads work.
Snuggies became a multi-million dollar business based on ad campaigns. That's exactly what astroturfing is - an ad campaign.

It might not work on you but I assure you that it does work.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
112. We should start a consulting firm to convince the GOP to spend half a billion a year on this,
that paying people to blog is the best possible use of their money.
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
113. I'm shocked, SHOCKED I tell ya!!!
:sarcasm:
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
114. Actually, it's very believable. This kind of "dis-information" campaign has been around in
one form or another for a long time. No surprise that it's a staple of the internetz.
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
115. Hartmann is reporting on this story now.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
119. Thom Hartmann just mentioned this post and he
said one of them posted at his website and admitted that he got paid 25 cents a post for trolling at left wing websites.
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #119
198. So a bunch of us should come up with a plan
Let's create a DU Troll Society. We will get Grovelbot to be our DU troll. At 25 cebts a post that doofus could earn DU some serious money! SKINNER!!!!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #198
201. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
125. I figured the people they hired overseas to solicit GOP donations during
the prez campaigns were kept on the payroll to discredit liberal blogs.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
130. As proof you provide a link to a blog post?
Edited on Mon Nov-30-09 01:11 PM by WeDidIt
Holy Irony, Batman!
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #130
142. Which sources an article from Roll Call and Raw Story.
Hope you aren't one of those paid bloggers...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #130
204. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
RedCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
132. Actually wing nuts were (are?) paid by Uncle Sam to promote wing nut foreign policy.
Using our tax dollars to betray us, creating wars to kill us, dominate foreign lands to weaken our economy and boycott us from better paying jobs.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
143. It wouldn't work if these people were banned, as per DU rules.
The RW trolls are allowed to get away with murder here, and rules be damned. :eyes:
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Techn0Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #143
145. It also would not work id people were limited to either ....
a certain number of posts per day (call it 10 , say) or if they were limited to a certain number of posts per thread topic.

It also would help if people had a maximum number of recs and unrecs that a person could make per day ( say between 5 or 10 votes total).

Either of those strategies would help defeat paid-for astroturfing trolls - or at least make it more costly to implement such a strategy.
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #145
179. Wouldn't that allow the sock puppets to have even more influence?
I sort of like the proposal, but I don't think there is anything a website can do to stop a concerted commercial agent with resources from having as many identities as they wish.
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Techn0Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #179
186. You can not stop it Perhaps - but you CAN make it more costly ....
Instead of one poster making 100 posts a day , make them hire 10 posters to do the same thing. Instead of taking 1 account - make them sign up for 10 accounts . Make the process more time consuming and more costly for mass posters.
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #186
191. OR just have the 1 poster use 10 identities.
It is the sock puppet problem that seems impossible to overcome. It is like whack-a-mole.
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Techn0Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #191
192. Either way it becomes more costly to do ...less time effective...and more noticable to Admins
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #192
197. How can admins protect against this?
I really would like to know.

As to the economics of it, considering the sums being spent on some of these campaigns (health care, energy etc) and how much is at stake, I don't know that an incremental cost increase of a few percent would make that much of a difference.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
149. ALL sides are paying people to flood blogs.
Not a shock.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #149
152. Dern, and I've been posting for free. n/t
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #152
154. LOL! Maybe "unpaid" DUers need to take a holiday from the board and see what's left.
Could be interesting. :)
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cadmium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #154
160. ha ha. I like your thinking nt
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #154
184. Hey! Great idea!
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #184
208. I thought so. :)
How are you saracat?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #154
205. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
MrsCorleone Donating Member (844 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #149
157. Large corps don't fund progressvie bloggers, as the progressives tend to hurt the
bottom lines of big oil & coal, insurance, pharma, etc.

Unfortunately, large multinational industries have seemingly unlimited $$$ to shape public opinion in their favor.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #157
170. True, b/c progressive values run counter to corporate "value$."
The idea of course is to turn public opinion against views that interfere w/empire and corporate aims.
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MrsCorleone Donating Member (844 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #170
174. Yes, it's so tragic watching teabaggers, freepers, et al out there
protesting against their own best interests and those of their fellow American citizens, all because the large industries, those that out-source our jobs, destroy our mom & pop businesses, and shat all over our food supply and planet just to pad the the bottom line, have control of public opinion via their huge coffers.

When I see corporate trolls influencing opinion here on DU, it pisses me off.

Ok, rant off. Thanks for listening. :hi:
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #174
178. Smoke & Mirrors is an American staple, but it's been utterly surreal since Bush was installed
"it's only a movie....only a movie....only a movie"

It is amazing to behold those who fiercely fight in support of those who use them, nor care in the least about them and their families.
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snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
153. Everyone needs a job right?
Sounds pretty gravy to get paid for posting meaningless tripe on random message boards :rofl:
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cadmium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #153
161. They probably think they are auditioning for WSJ, Fox and AM radio nt
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
163. I can name several here...
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
164. When I see posts here on DU telling me Social Security is going broke,
I know for a fact they are GOP trolls!
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
167. D'OH!!
Too bad you can't buy intelligent trolls :rofl:
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
172. They've been doing it for YEARS.
At a political forum of a tech site I used to frequent, we'd see them come in in waves of 2-3 about every 6 months.

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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
173. Proud to be the 100th rec to this thread
And though I am NOT a professional blogger, I know that it would come to this. You can tell, because their points are all EXACTLY the same, and when it comes to justifying their talking points, they either use circular logic, or simply cannot.

I wonder if I can get a job... Maybe I can booby trap them. You know, make it sound like I know what I am talking about with their right wing garbage, and when it comes to reasoning, just use stupidity.. Oh wait, they are already doing that.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
175. I see them on youtube & other "open" boards
Not so much here - oh, they might try, but we have thousands of good detectives on the job. I do think they vote in polls & rec stuff though.
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colsohlibgal Donating Member (670 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
180. It's Why We Are Where We Are
They figured it out a few decades ago and since then - they play dirty, no holds barred, gutter, whatever it takes politics and we play fair and nicey nice. The result is Eisenhower was comfortably left of the majority of the democrats in Washington now and average folks are in quite a pickle and it's likely to get much worse soon.

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Prometheuspan Donating Member (168 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #180
187. how to fix it.
1. Learn and use conversational logic.
2. pick your battles.
3. Fight them well en masse.
4. Do good research
5. Evolove over the top.


Think then; who might be or is acting the role of paid misinfo or propaganda artist...
and then analyze it with formal conversational logic;
report your analysis...

if you need a live demo, drop me a note to send me to your schroedingers troll...

otherwise, the info you need to solve this problem rather than just be aware or overwhelmed by it is this;

http://issues.ni4d.us/index.php?title=Formal_Conversati...
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Prometheuspan Donating Member (168 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #187
189. and this helps 2..
ETHICS General

1. Endeavor to do the least possible or no harm to all persons, property, life, liberty, livelihood, environment, self, others, family, community, Country, World, Economies,
Children, Elders, Workers, Voters, and Ecosystems. (And so forth.)
2. Endeavor to make all of ones labor to meet ones own needs also coincide with the maximum energy potential of benefit to others. Practice the law of charity and reap
the rewards of the law of karma. Give your best to others and go the extra mile, for the
good of all, for the benefit of all of ones relations.
3. Emotions derive from primary instincts. Flight renders fear and fight renders Rage.
4. Emotional Energies are best resolved via right action problem solving process, not
allowing emotion to guide or control ones thinking or process.
5. The 1st and second principle applies as a matrix to the whole Needs Pyramid. That Pyramid consists of Physical needs at the base, social needs, emotional needs, mental
needs and spiritual needs at the top.
6. We only move up through the pyramid of needs one need at a time and in order of
priority for survival. Needs are coded as instincts that drive all of human behavior. All
behavior is tactic to meet ones needs. Behavior which harms others or which fails to benefit the whole of society is unethical behavior, but it must be understood to exist
as a psychology which is an instinct attached to a bad problem solving tactic. People
only act to meet their needs, if they act badly, what they need to act better is a better
tactic.
7. Thus do no harm and work for the good of all as you climb your pyramid of needs
and be cognizant of what your needs are, and lucid in terms of having good tactics that
are socially beneficial for meeting your needs.
8. Most morality can be expressed as iterations of the do no harm rule. Do no harm against ones relationship with spirit, Do no harm which would kill another person, do no
harm by stealing or thieving, do no harm by potentially transmitting STDS i.e., law against
Adultery, the list goes on etc; most of the Ten Commandments can be rewritten as specific details of the do no harm rule.
9. Ethics is the process of reconciling the needs of society with the drives of the Reptilian
and Mammalian Brain and thus Ethics are the laws of nature which allow us to exist in
peace as a culture or society instead of continuing the law of the jungle.
10. We are spirits in animal bodies, and there is a law of the jungle under our skins which must be somehow evolved and cultivated into cooperation (and cooperative
process) rather than violence (and violence as a problem solving process.) The law of the jungle is violence. The law of Angels is Cooperation.
11. Everything is connected to everything else, thus anything you do to another you do
to yourself. This becomes increasingly true as the law of karma carries out its permutation selections of what would otherwise be random chance rendering thus
synchronicities.
12. A person cannot obtain waking altered states of consciousness until they resolve
the assorted shadow issues of the Mammalian and Reptilian Mind.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics
http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/ET /
http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/e/ethics.htm
http://www.scu.edu/ethics/practicing/decision/whatiseth...
http://ethics.sandiego.edu /
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/lymedisease/112259
http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/228/execution-ethics.html


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primum_non_nocere
http://www.conbio.org/cip/article74har.cfm
http://www.ascensionhealth.org/ethics/public/issues/goo...
http://skeptically.org/ethicsutility/id10.html
http://search.yahoo.com/search ;_ylt=A0geu677vSFGnkoBelxXNyoA?p=Ethics++%22for+the+good+of+all%22&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-501&x=wrt
http://www.globaljusticemovement.org/mission_ethics.htm

http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Cr/1Cr013.html
http://scriptures.lds.org/1_cor/13
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/1_cor/13/1a?cr=1
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bd/c/41
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_Corinthians_13

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/karma1.htm
http://world.std.com/~aditya/BB/Law%20of%20KARMA4.htm
http://www.ncf.ca/freenet/rootdir/menus/sigs/religion/b...
http://www.thebuddhadharma.com/issues/2002/fall/karma_p...
http://www.purifymind.com/YogaKarma.htm
http://www.purifymind.com/UnderstandKarma.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_a_needle
http://www.eyeoftheneedle.net/Church%20Traditions/eye_o...
http://www.debunker.com/texts/needleye.html
http://www.shamar.org/articles/camel-needle.php


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/instinct
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instinct
http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/library/topics/instinct...
http://drbeetle.homestead.com/mindrules.html
http://www.neurosemantics.com/Stuttering/stress_pattern...

http://www.barrettdorko.com/articles/supress.htm
http://www.fortunecity.com/millenium/blossom/309/mindin...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow\'s_hierarchy_of_nee...
http://crs.uvm.edu/gopher/nerl/group/b/c/PyN.html
http://www.age-of-the-sage.org/psychology/maslow_pyrami...
http://www.businessballs.com/maslow.htm

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sumer_anunnaki/reptil...
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0817-13.htm
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/Anthro/Anth206/culture_in...
http://www.atam.org/SerpentBrain.html
http://www.psycheducation.org/emotion/R%20complex.htm
 HYPERLINK "http://www.geocities.com/somewherereal/YourBrain.html " http://www.geocities.com/somewherereal/YourBrain.html 


PSYCHOLOGY General
1.Psychology is the study of the human mind. Most specifically the psyche, most generally All of human behavior.
2. The human Brain is composed of between 40 and 70 different organs, depending upon
how you define differences. These are called brodmanns brain areas. Each brain area
is responsible for specific types of brain processes and mental functions.
3. The human mind has four main operational conditions, they are beta brainwave states, alpha brainwave states, delta brainwave states, and theta brainwave states. Each of these might be further subdivided into waking or sleeping states of consciousness.
4. Beta brainwave states are those in which the dominant area of the brain is the frontal lobes. Alpha brainwave states are those in which the dominant area of the brain is the Mammalian brain or Occipital lobes, and Delta brainwaves states are those where the brain is dominated by the Reptilian Brain or brain stem. Theta brain wave states are
a second waking condition in which the body is healed, or, in which the normal flow of
dominance from top of brain to bottom of brain is reversed, and the bottom of the brain
loads information into the top, which is then experienced as dreams.
5. We have instincts which compel us to seek out gratification of our needs. All behavior is motivated by a conscious or unconscious belief that said behavior will get some need met.
6. Psychology involves first an instinct, which compels a thought process, and then a planning or strategizing session in which the individual uses their maps of reality and belief systems as well as learned knowledge and social conditioning to arrive at an end
product of doing something to get what you want. Schema are maps of reality which we
use as tools to meet our needs .Social Conditioning and personal experience and learning
play vital roles in helping the mind to think up tactics to meet needs.
7. Criminal behavior is behavior which that person believes will get their needs met. Punishment was well demonstrated to have little or no effect on learning curve. What is required for a person to change their behavior is a functional tactic that does work to get their needs met.
8. Groupthink is a social phenomenon of psychology where a group uses false
consensus process to end up behaving stupidly as a group. Groupthink occurs when
people cave into social pressures, where propaganda replaces knowledge or facts, and where group identity is created out of participation in group delusions, lies, codependency, or criminality. Groupthink is how a mob drifts to the lowest common denominator, and why a mob is potentially vicious, evil, and sociopathic. Group
authority ameliorates and dissolves personal conscience, and by having their emotions
manipulated and their social identity threatened, people give up their own better judgment and accept the judgment of the most psychopathic member of the group.
9. Pack Psychology is the psychology exhibited primarily by mammals in small groups
in which 3 primary roles are assumed by social participants. The roles are Alpha- the leader, Beta- the followers, and Delta- the orbiters. In human society that translates in a super-simplified way into bullies, cliques, and nerds.
10. Problem solving psychology must contend against groupthink and pack psychology in the arena of opinion. Problem solving psychology is emotionally neutral and uses the mind and logic to look at all aspects of a problem and try to come up with a viable problem solving process. Problem solving psychology is the worst enemy of both
Rightist and Leftist Dogmatists. True problem solving psychology comes from the place of the radical middle. It takes in all sides and all viewpoints, and it gives each its fair dues
And attention in creating a problem solving process that works from the big picture down through into the nano details.


Psychology;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychology
http://psychology.about.com /
http://www.psychology.org /
http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1E1-psychlgy.html
http://www.socialpsychology.org /

Brodmanns brain areas and etc;
http://www.umich.edu/~cogneuro/jpg/Brodmann.html
http://spot.colorado.edu/~dubin/talks/brodmann/brodmann...
http://www.whale.to/b/brain.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brodmann_area
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regions_in_the_hum...
http://thebrain.mcgill.ca/flash/capsules/outil_jaune05....
http://www.csuchico.edu/~pmccaff/syllabi/CMSD%20320/362...
http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/qa2.html

brainwaves;
http://www.brainwaves.com/brain.html
http://pages.prodigy.net/unohu/brainwaves.htm
http://brain.web-us.com/brainwavesfunction.htm
http://www.crossroadsinstitute.org/eeg.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwaves

SOCIOLOGY General
1. Sociology is the study of groups of people, how they interact, how they create and hold group structures and group identities, how they band together, how they deal with conflicts, and everything that whole groups of people do.
2. Sociology studies social units such as families, packs, tribes, villages, cities, hives, herds, and mobs.
3. The precarious balance of true democracy is that society must balance social welfare and social support and services against the counterweight of free enterprise. If the balance falls off towards social welfare, the society falls into entropy as the government destroys
private enterprise to fund social services. The result is socialism, which always decays into its own form of totalitarianism. If the balance falls off the other way, then free enterprise results in a plutocracy and then an oligarchy followed by mild oligarchic mercantilist fascism and then a severe oligarchic fascism. Socialism is not a whole goal
or endpoint we wish to arrive at, but the system "as is" is out of balance resulting in a corporate oligarchy. The only way to fix this is to return the power back to the people and
restore a genuine democracy.
4. Sociology understands that social phenomenon are very complicated, and that social problems have many underlying contributing causes for any given effect. Oversimplification, blaming, black and white thinking, and false dilemmas do not help to solve problems in a real way.
5. People are conditioned to behave by their social environment. Personal responsibility is important, but where statistics show a trend in negative or antisocial behaviors, Society
as a whole must shoulder some part of the blame and work to improve conditions socially
just as it works to rehabilitate the criminal, so should it seek to rehabilitate itself.
6. People have several layers of personal space, a psychological truth which is mostly subliminal, but which nonetheless governs almost all social interactions. People should learn to consciously understand personal space to cut down on miscommunication and stress due to problems handling personal space issues.
7. The best way to run a democratic system is by using consensus process to the point of
a clear and overwhelming (two thirds) majority. Consensus process means talking about and working out issues and differences to arrive at a mutually beneficial compromise much of the time.
8. The best guardian of the balance between socialism and free enterprise is intellectual meritocracy. A functional society should be free of propaganda, should not have anti-intellectualism, and should consider ideas on their rational merit, not according to what
others have to say or social pressures, but by means of a reproducible rational problem
solving application of intelligence and knowledge.


Sociology Introduction;
http://www.thomsonedu.com/thomsonedu/discipline.do?disc...
http://www.polity.co.uk/sociology/sociology_txtbks.asp
http://highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/007240535x/studen...
http://www.sdsmt.edu/online-courses/is/soc100/Intro.htm
http://www.sdsmt.edu/online-courses/is/soc100/course.ht...
http://www2.wwnorton.com/college/soc/giddens5 /
http://www.camden.rutgers.edu/~wood/207syl.htm
http://core.ecu.edu/soci/juskaa/SOCI2110/soci1.htm

Types of Government;
http://stutzfamily.com/mrstutz/WorldAffairs/typesofgovt...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/find_out/guides/world...
http://home.earthlink.net/~kingsidebishop/id2.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_of_government
http://www.twyman-whitney.com/americancitizen/foundatio...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_forms_of_governmen...

Social Conditioning;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_conditioning
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070406120...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_learning_theory
http://www.dailyom.com/articles/2006/4952.html
http://changingminds.org/techniques/conversion/social_p...
http://www.winthrop.edu/english/nosearch/core/social.ht...

Pavlov;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Pavlov
http://www.psyhist.com/conditioning.html
http://www.sntp.net/behaviorism/pavlov.htm
http://users.cwnet.com/phelps/pavlov.htm
http://forerunner.com/forerunner/X0497_DeMar_-_Behavior...
http://tip.psychology.org/skinner.html
http://www.brembs.net/operant /
http://psychology.about.com/od/behavioralpsychology/a/i...



Education reform;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_reform
http://www1.worldbank.org/education/globaleducationrefo... /
http://www.education-reform.net /
http://dmoz.org/Society/Issues/Education/Education_Refo... /

Curiousity driven Learning
http://www.csl.sony.fr/~py/developmentalRobotics.htm
http://www.idsia.ch/~juergen/interest.html
http://www.childtrauma.org/ctamaterials/Curiosity.asp
http://www.csun.edu/~vcpsy00h/students/explore.htm


Types of Intelligence;
http://www.macalester.edu/psychology/whathap/ubnrp/inte...
http://www.ldpride.net/learningstyles.MI.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_intelligences

Learning Styles;
http://www.ncsu.edu/felder-public/Learning_Styles.html
http://www.ncsu.edu/felder-public/ILSpage.html
http://www.chaminade.org/inspire/learnstl.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning_styles
http://www.funderstanding.com/learning_styles.cfm

Anti Intellectualism;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-intellectualism
http://chronicle.com/free/v47/i15/15b00701.htm
http://www.amazon.com/Anti-Intellectualism-American-Lif...
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0121/p17s02-lehl.html
http://mtprof.msun.edu/Spr1997/TROUT-ST.html
http://www.wayofthemind.org/2006/07/26/anti-intellectua... /
https://urresearch.rochester.edu/retrieve/6552/Anti-Int...
http://www.boston.com/news/local/maine/articles/2007/02...


POLITICAL SCIENCE General
What kind of government does the USA have? What kind of government does Santa Barbara have? Because while it is intended to be an approximation of democracy, via
The process of representation, how much representation does the common person have
In a false dilemma war between republican and democrat? How much access do we have
To our representation? How much does our representation really work to represent us? And are they loyal to the people, or, are they loyal to that fraction of the people who can afford to belong to the aristocrat class? In theory, the political process is where and how society codes ethics and social and civil engineering into actual laws and rules and actions of the government. Politics might be defined as that sphere of social reality devoted to government, and in a democracy, Political science becomes the complicated process of getting social participants to fully invest in their own self governance.
Political science is thus about the cycle of communication, ideation, and manifestation of social and civil self administration. In America, this is a dialogue allegedly between any and all, but in reality, it is a monologue with two sock puppets
Taking up all of the air space. What difference is there between the $rich$ leftists and the
$rich$ rightists? Both rule over the under-caste of laborers and Workers, who in truth end up having little or no say in government. The masses are drowned out by two sock puppets screaming at each other.
Political Science combines all other sciences in one way or another. It involves Ethics, Morality, Physics, Architecture, Psychology, Sociology, Law, communications, Logic, and in one way or another every other science or paradigm. The subtopics of Political science are therefore Political Science sub all of the other Sciences and paradigms. But do our representatives have the information they need to juggle so many
Problems and issues? Do we as a society have a problem solving process, and are we solving problems? Or are we mostly making social problems worse by complicating society?
Perhaps more importantly, all of the sciences have bearing on Political Science.
Communications theory gives us solutions to most problems in government which we simply fail to employ. Civil Engineering tells us with mathematical certainty what the
Consequences are of building or failing to build any given thing. Sociology has the answers easily to almost all serious social problems. Hard Science can solve the energy
Crunch. The problem is that people are allowing money to make the decisions, not a lucid
Problem solving process. The problem is that the answers the sciences have to give us are being ignored, so that power hungry fools can continue to stay on top of their power-play games, and stay cozy, unaffected by truth or knowledge or reason.
All opinions were not created equal. The perspective of a sociologist is simply a more well formed perspective than a laypersons is if we are to seriously consider solving social problems. Opinion is based in emotions, in simplifications, and usually, in leftist or rightist sponsored propaganda. But neither left nor right side is interested in solving problems, as much as they are trapped in a net of their own making of lies they told themselves often enough that they believed them. The saddest part of ignorance is that if
People would just slow down, they could take the time to educate themselves.

Political Science;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_science
http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Political-Science/index.htm
http://www.apsanet.org /
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9109548/political-...

Propaganda
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda
http://www.propagandacritic.com /
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Propaganda
http://www.esrnational.org/whatispropaganda.htm
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9109443/propaganda
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061115153...
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Propaganda_t...
http://www.serendipity.li/more/propagan.html
http://mason.gmu.edu/~amcdonal/Propaganda%20Techniques....
http://www.readwritethink.org/lessons/lesson_view.asp?i...

Types of government;
http://stutzfamily.com/mrstutz/WorldAffairs/typesofgovt...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/find_out/guides/world...
http://home.earthlink.net/~kingsidebishop/id2.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_of_government
http://www.twyman-whitney.com/americancitizen/foundatio...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_forms_of_governmen...





Oligarchy;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligarchy
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9057016/oligarchy
http://www.bartleby.com/65/ol/oligarch.html
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/oligarchy
http://www.oligarchyusa.com /
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/prem/200503u/pp2005-03-3...
http://www.democracymatters.org/article.php?cat=Press&s...
http://familyrightsassociation.com/news/federer/america...
http://www.shoutwire.com/comments/15598/The_American_De...
http://www.irregulartimes.com/oligarchy.html

Class warfare;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_Warfare
http://www.therationalradical.com/outrages/class_warfar...
http://www.disenchanted.com/dis/technology/class-warfar...
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/capitalgames?bid=3&pid=2...
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/26/business/yourmoney/26...
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060902110...

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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
193. Doug Guetzloe...
Probably the only person in America NOT to get laid in the 70's.



Florida State University, Bachelor of Science, 1978
Student Body President, 1978
NOTE: (Florida Gov. Charlie Crist was Dougs Vice President)
Student Body Vice President, 1977
Student Senator, 1975-1976
St. Petersburg Junior College, Associate of Arts, 1975
Student Body President, 1974-1975
Student Body Secretary, 1973-1974
Student Senator, 1973-1974

Link: http://www.guetzloe.com/03_dougs_bio.html

:shrug:
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Edleft Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
196. Not just on the political blogs
Take a look at the Scientific American articles refuting global warming deniers.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=clim...

There are comments such ase:

SA's position on this is no surprise. Global warming has NEVER been about global warming. It has always been about advancing marxism. Global warming is simply the latest tool to guilt you into surrendering your freedom.

Most of the deny comments are well written, but focus on narrow issues and not the observable facts.

I watched Lake Erie die, come back, and have trouble again, due to human influences. This is only a small example, but there were many who kept saying that it was to big for humans to damage.

Oh well - SSDD
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
209. Grovelbot's evil troll just got tombstoned trying to play blog warrior
He only earned $1.25.

:ROFL:

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Prometheuspan Donating Member (168 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
213. test run results
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marlakay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
216. I believe it they are going nuts right now
on Huffington post talking about comcast and NBC, tons of right wing attackers, more than normal.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
218. All anyone has to do is check out GD-P and all the DINOs posting propaganda there. nt
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
221. Bump
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