re: Afghanistan-There is no "if we just______, it'll be fine".....

[carpe diem]

...Whatever we do there, stay or go, we are going to eat a pile of s__t. Just about every decision made in the last administration on Afghanistan was bad and now, there is no good decision to be made...we broke it and now we own it.

I agreed w/ Rep. Barbara Lee that we should never have gone to war in this country, certainly not the way we did. But it's our quagmire now, and we are damned either way. I want us out 8 years ago, but it just isn't that simple.

Also, Obama said throughout the campaign he wanted to "finish the job" in Afghanistan, whatever that means and that's what he said today. Maybe if we can stand to dither a few more days before the 'he's dead to me chorus' begins, he will tell us all what it means to him and we can decide then how disappointed, outraged and disgusted we should be.

[sharesunited]

1. Agreed, hear him out. He is a liberal with good sympatico with Muslim sensibilities.

I trust him on this.

[2tr4nqued]

2. If Obama sends more troops to Afghanistan...

I won't vote for him in 2012.

[carpe diem]

4. you likely didn't vote for him in 2008...

so he really won't be losing a vote will he?

[closeupready]

3. Finish WHAT job, though? What is he going to "finish"?

And when will everyone know (approximately) when it's "finished"? Even our own troops don't know why we are still there.

[sharesunited]

5. Finish transforming it into Turkey. Finish squashing religious insanity.

[closeupready]

7. Nonsense. For one, Obama expanded the faith-based initiatives Bush started.

Secondly, Turkey's history and Afghanistan's history are like night and day. What's he going to do, wave a magic wand and presto chango, Afghanistan is now a prosperous secular state?

[sharesunited]

11. You might agree, though: The Taliban and Al Qaeda are obstacles to that outcome.

[closeupready]

12. Within the context of this thread in which the methodbeing discussed to achieve the goal is warfare,

while I agree that the Taliban and al-qaida are "bad guys" (to channel Sarah Palin there for a minute), there has never been any dispute over the claim that these bad guys are obstacles to progress anywhere they have breathing space.

So you're question is what exactly? Can you please rephrase.

[sharesunited]

14. "Waving a magic wand" is trivializing the importance of removing the impediment they pose.

How do you aspire to becoming more secular, like Turkey, without first destroying those who would behead you for proceeding in that direction?

If the people of the world can't shake themselves of religion, at least those who refuse to peacefully co-exist with non-believers need to be taken out of the picture.

[closeupready]

15. There's us, the US, and then there's them, Afghanis. You are arguing the US must fix THEIR society.

By FORCE.

Is that so? And if so, are you arguing that it is our responsibility to do this in Iran? And what about the Sudan/Darfur? That's pretty fucked-up, Darfur - shouldn't we be there too, fixing that society?

And what about the horrible treatment of aborigines in Australia? Are we going to bomb Australia, as well?

[sharesunited]

16. Did you forget why we invaded? They were behaving badly long before we did.

But hosting Bin Laden and refusing to arrest and extradite him made them an enemy of the United States.

Listen, I was with you on Iraq. That was completely willful.

But not Afghanistan. They need fixing because of previous acts of war against us.

[carpe diem]

6. i think that's the idea behind the speech he's

giving next week, to add some definition and clarity to whatever it is he's going to do, which right now is just more MSM speculation...

[closeupready]

8. We'll all be listening - not sure what for, as he seems to rarely mix action with words,but I guess

we need to give him a chance.

[zoff]

13. They're there to clear the way for a pipeline.

And then they'll stay forever to guard the pipeline.

[therealbarack]

9. Obama better make one decision

and stick with it

[therealbarack]

10. Cause

it won't be pretty either way

[Bigmack]

17. Ultimately.. "WE" can't do shit in Vietghanistan...

It's a they thing. And frankly, they are a lot of years from the 21st century Western Democracies.

Are we prepared to help guide them thru the Renaissance, the Age of Reason, the Industrial Revolution, the Ages of Revolution and Nationalism?

And that's with their co-operation.

You - any of you - ain't gonna live that long.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

18. we're there because of the oil companies and the pipelines

why else would we be there. Certainly not the bs lies we've been fed.

How many people would be willing to die so cheaply for a wealthy oil company?

[Bigmack]

19. Leave 'em alone to make their own way. Not my words, but....

`I believe that if we had and would keep our dirty, bloody, dollar soaked fingers out of the business of these (Third World) nations so full of depressed, exploited people, they will arrive at a solution of their own. And if unfortunately their revolution must be of the violent type because the `haves' refuse to share with the `have-nots' by any peaceful method, at least what they get will be their own, and not the American style, which they don’t want and above all don’t want crammed down their throats by Americans.' –
Gen. David Shoup, United States Marine Commandant Medal of Honor recipient.
CMC during the first part of my time in the Corps