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Why Can't We Do to DC What We Did to Seattle?

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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 04:38 PM
Original message
Why Can't We Do to DC What We Did to Seattle?
I've been reading a brand new book called "The Battle of the Story of the Battle of Seattle," which is in large part an analysis of what worked in the protesting of the World Trade Organization 10 years ago. Why is it, I wonder, that activists were able to shut down the center of this major city in Washington state, but for years we have been unable to shut down the center of Washington, D.C., in opposition to wars.

Certainly, we've turned out more people to march around DC on a Saturday than took part in the Seattle action. But we've never shut the place down on a series of weekdays and prevented congressional, White House, and military staff from getting to work. And we've never tried to do so -- not with the sort of broad-coalition, grass-roots, strategic organization that led up to Seattle. Handfuls of dedicated activists, sometimes including some of the same people who organized Seattle, have made feeble attempts. Here's an effort that I coordinated, which failed: http://campdemocracy.org A couple of Iraq War Anniversaries ago, peace groups engaged in creative nonviolent action in DC, but with a different approach from Seattle, and with meager results. As side-shows to marches, or as independent actions, we've gotten arrested, including at the Capitol, but we haven't closed the place down.

Now there are plans for major protests in Copenhagen, but there are also plans to shut down DC in March: http://peaceoftheaction.org Unless this effort grows dramatically very soon, it too will not match what was done 10 years ago. It may be worth our while to look at the lessons in this new book by David Solnit, Rebecca Solnit, and other contributors. One obvious point is that the WTO was scheduled to meet briefly, and a limited protest could actually prevent that meeting. Even if we know that Congress is scheduled to vote on war funding, we could shut Congress down for a week and then watch it pass the war funding on the 8th day. But the WTO, too, could have delayed or moved its meeting. If we were to shut things down for a week and convey the popularity of our cause, we might shut the wars down for good. The popularity of our cause depends on good communications strategies and strict adherence to nonviolence, and therefore also good strategies for countering false charges of violence.

We have to invest months of hard work in planning and coalition building. Seattle was built at the grass roots for months through educational efforts and the facilitation of creative planning by diverse groups. A coalition was built that included communities directly impacted by the WTO's actions. And it was a diffuse, decentralized coalition of affinity groups and clusters using open democratic decision-making and collective leadership. People were trained, and trained well, in nonviolent resistance, including in the use of locks and other equipment for the creation of human barriers. The city was divided into pie slices with the WTO meeting place at the center, and different groups had the responsibility to shut down their slice of the pie.

There is a myth that Seattle had the advantage of surprise. On the contrary, it had the advantage of extensive publicity. Plans were heavily publicized and, therefore, mainstreamed. Labor unions participated. Taxi drivers and longshoremen and warehouse workers went on strike. And a great deal of energy went into art and street theater used to energize and communicate messages, as well as to block streets. People were presented with very clear and immediate reasons they should participate. A flyer that was used is reproduced on the last page of the book. It explains, very succinctly, the damage done by the WTO to anyone who eats, works, breathes, goes to school, or lives. That's pretty inclusive.

We can easily create a powerful message for war opposition. Here's a rough draft of one:

Wars kill innocent people.
Wars kill soldiers and mercenaries.
Wars wound, injure, traumatize, and brutalize.
Wars take our resources away from food, housing, healthcare, jobs, education, clean energy.
Wars take our civil rights away in the false name of national security.
Wars make us less safe, enraging people against our country.
Wars poison our environment.
Wars encourage racism and bigotry at home and abroad.

We can identify a time for action, such as the week of March 22, 2010, following the anniversary of the invasion of Iraq. We can identify a demand: no more money for foreign wars and occupations. But do we have the institutional structure to organize a broad coalition? Can we reach the unemployed and homeless already on the streets of Washington? Can we persuade a single labor union to take part? Will the nonprofit industrial complex engage in resistance of our government's actions when the president has a D, instead of an R, after his name? These are all major hurdles, but we are helped by the lessons gained in past struggles. We are helped by the hard-earned knowledge of what does NOT work. We are helped by the current public debate over the insanity of war in Afghanistan, which is certain to be followed by more war in Afghanistan. We are helped by the fact that the Iraqi people will be denied again in January an opportunity to vote on the occupation of their country. We are helped by the growing awareness in our own country that we cannot survive economically while paying for these wars.

If you think it's time we shut down the empire at the heart of the WTO with tactics so effectively used to weaken the WTO, pick up a copy of "The Battle of the Story of the Battle of Seattle" and get in touch -- and get your organizations in touch -- with this group of dedicated citizens in order to coordinate your own independent efforts to close off a pie-slice of Capitol Hill: http://peaceoftheaction.org

David Swanson is the author of the new book "Daybreak: Undoing the Imperial Presidency and Forming a More Perfect Union" by Seven Stories Press. You can order it and find out when tour will be in your town: http://davidswanson.org/book.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's remote, hotels are expensive, it's not full of hippies to host couch surfers?
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Remote? The majority of the U.S. population lives within a 5 hour drive
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
36. And do they all have cars?
I could buy a train ticket (expensive) and hotel reservations (expensive!!) for such an event. It would hurt a lot though.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #10
63. I wasn't aware of that. OK, so it feels remote. It looks remote on the map, relative to the entire..
... nation. It's not like it's in St Louis, which is probably actually more remote in terms of access, but you know what I mean.

Really half the nation lives within a 5 hour drive? Ballparking I count about 80 million, but I'll take your word for it, and before you brought it up I didn't really think about there even being 80 million.
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yeah, remember the WTO? Hard to believe it completely folded after that.
I hear the G20 is reeling from all the broken Quiznos windows in Pittsburgh.
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Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. ;
:spray: :applause:
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Yeah, let's just give in...
:applause:
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Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Because of course there are only two options.
Pretty unsophistcated thinking, there. But not surprising from someone who apparently thinks that breaking windows at Quiznos is really sticking it to the man. :eyes:
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. Seattle was also able to pull off a general strike in 1919.
See this article I posted on my journal almost three years ago.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Cleita/3
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. "Labor unions participated. Taxi drivers and longshoremen and warehouse workers went on strike."

Right there are two things you aren't going to get for a violent anti-war protest.

It also doesn't help that "violent anti-war" is an oxymoron. Mind you, I'm talking violence as an emotion rather than an action.


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11 Bravo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
5. Yeah, and the inner city folks who get fired because they can't get to work that day?
Ahh, fuck 'em, right? You can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs. Surely a couple of paint-filled balloons and broken windows are more important than the livelihood of a few struggling District residents.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. not to mention that it won't , as the author seems to believe, end the wars.
And such an action won't be wholly non-violent.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. "It won't end the wars". Maybe the author doesnt have your powers of seeing the future.
IMO it was the demonstrations over the Vietnam War that finally forced the MSM to cover the story and wake up the apathetic public. And maybe you are right and this demonstration won't stop the wars and maybe even the next or the next wont, but sooner or later the rich fuckers that are running and ruining this country are going to have to hear the masses.

The end game for the greedy, corporatist, capitalist, wealthy bastards will be violent. I dont condone it but predict it.

The poor will never be able to over through the rich. Never have, never will, but they/we might as well go down swinging.

curious what your solution is.
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. People's livelihoods? Pfft. No mere 'people' will stand in the way of a davidswanson stunt.
Edited on Wed Nov-18-09 05:27 PM by Richardo
Here's where he disrupted an unsuspecting naturalization ceremony by yelling in public and for that courageous act, was canonized a DU war hero:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3564429&mesg_id=3564429
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. lol. I think Mr. Swanson is a grandstanding, er, sort.
It's all about Swanson.
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. You ain't doing shit, cali.
at least he is doing something.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. you don't have a clue as to what I do or have done, honeypie.
sorry, I don't looove your little hero. now you can return to your mindless adulation.
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. oh yeah, that nuclear reactor thing
back in the early 70s. :eyes:
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. you know nothing about my life, but I wouldn't expect that to stop someone of
your caliber from simply pulling shit out of a hat and proclaiming it as fact. That's all you ever do, dearie.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
29. I did not agree with that tactic either, Richardo, but David Swanson is providing needed
leadership where there was none. He is organizing against the corporatists and he is educating Americans about the ways we are being disenfranchised.

We need more people like David if we are ever going to stop these wars.

Just my $.02.

I support a march on D.C., which I explain in a later post.
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 04:20 AM
Response to Reply #29
60. +1, well put. nt
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
33. If he yelled at Bush, he earned his stripes...I for one applaud his courage
Your words ring hollow however. I haven't heard what you've ever done beside posting this criticism of the kind of activism we all should be contemplating. "Democracy," as Michael Moore constantly reminds us "is not a spectator sport."

All of our lives were put in peril because of Bush. It is unfortunate that those who live in proximity to the rich and powerful (or off their largess) might be inconvienced by those who fight them.

Remember Harry Belafonte's remarks about Colin Powell? Think about it.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
45. And rightfully so!
David has been at the front of this movement long enough to gain my respect many times over. We need more heroes just like him.
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. Yeah, K Street has so many "inner city folk"
Bwahahahah... are you for real? You just conjure up these false images. I'm sure the financial district has sooooo many struggling District residents. The people you are talking about are kept under lock and key and are not seen by the policy makers. Nice try though. Bet you've never even been to D.C.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu67yo-3jfw
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AnnieBW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #13
35. Secretaries, Paralegals, Janitors, Messengers
People who work at the restaurants. Yeah. But THOSE people aren't important, are they?
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11 Bravo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
39. I live here, clown.
Edited on Wed Nov-18-09 09:49 PM by 11 Bravo
About 5 miles west of the D.C. line. I go into the city 2 or 3 times a week. I used to live in town, and I also worked there for a time. I first started heading downtown when I was 12, to watch the Senators play. That was 46 years ago. Since then, I've been to war, and I've been to college, but now I'm back home. I've spent more time in D.C. thsn you've spent jerking off (or maybe not). So please, don't presume to tell me about the District, dipshit.
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malletgirl02 Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
46. You are wrong
I think you are the one who has never been to DC. I worked in many place in Dc and the other metro area, and I seen people off all walks of life, the rich and the poor in what is considered the wealthier areas. I suggest to come visit DC and spend some time riding the metro you will see all kinds of people.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
22. That's your argument? Some people MIGHT get fired if they MIGHT not get to work. That's your reason
not to protest? Hell, it MIGHT snow and those same people MIGHT get fired.
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malletgirl02 Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
27. You are right
I think the OP like some other people at DU forget that people other than rich politicians live in and round DC.
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #27
37. Good thing you weren't in charge of northern forces during the civil war
You would have advised avoiding battles based on the fact the work schedules of slaves toiling in the field would be disrupted by skirmishes with the enemy.

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malletgirl02 Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. What kind of argument is that?
Edited on Wed Nov-18-09 09:58 PM by malletgirl02
Just because I bring up the fact that the OP's protest idea might inconvenience people who are not rich I'm in favor of slavery. Just so you know I work in the DC area area you it is kind of personal for me.
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #40
52. pssst...I think you are one of the slaves...me too...a bunch of us are
Sorry if angry Americans' struggle for liberation inconveniences you. Class warfare is being waged against the American worker, and the corrupt politicians in DC are legitimate targets of our anger. They need to do the people's bidding or bid the people adieu. If not, off with their heads. Pitchfork and torch weather.

America is a dying empire. A most inconvenient truth, but there it is.
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malletgirl02 Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #52
55. American Workers
Edited on Thu Nov-19-09 01:03 AM by malletgirl02
All I'm trying to say is that not everyone in DC and the surrounding area is a politician or rich. Most are just regular people just like you. I'm sorry it takes too long to get home when conditions are good. My point is entirely legitimate.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #55
70. well, if it will make *you* get home late, fuggediboutit.
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malletgirl02 Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-21-09 05:33 AM
Response to Reply #70
75. I'm only trying to give my side
and you make snide remarks, really good way to get me on your side. Not. On a good day it takes me about two hours to get home. You know go ahead and do it, shut down the entire area, and why not just DC Northern Virginia and Maryland, and see how people really react.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #5
69. no one should ever be inconvenienced by the exercise of american freedom
or the right of citizens to protest the actions of their government.

only sanctioned protest is allowed.
it's in the constitution.
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malletgirl02 Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-21-09 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #69
76. I'm not Saying thay
Oh yeah, another snide remark, I'm giving my opinion, I never said what you said, and I will never be on your side if you keep those snide comments. Maybe if you gave a token concern about people in the area, I would.
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Ysabela Donating Member (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. We'd need a "Faux News" promoting the event on TV in order to make it work.
If it's not on TV, it didn't happen. In order to get enough people to shut down DC for a week to protest wars, we'd need a TV network that would heavily promote the event, like Faux News did with the Teabagging rallies. And somehow, I don't see CNN or MSNBC *ever* allowing even a discussion about an upcoming liberal protest, let alone promoting it. Just look at how the media covered up the worldwide protests against the conquering and pillaging of Iraq, they have no interest in ending the military industrial complex.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
18. Wish I could rec this topic hundred times. n/t
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
23. I'm sure an angry mob trying to bully Congress into doing its will would
produce marvelous results.

Maybe Michelle Bachmann could keynote.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
24. Because We Aren't Suicidal, Yet?
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
25. Why can't we do to DC what we did to Paris, 1789?
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 09:28 PM
Original message
Now we're talkin!!
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
26. The protests didn't 'shut down the city', the police response did.
The peaceful protestors were fine. A day's disruption to the city at most.

It was the punks with no real interest in political protest that were breaking windows. I don't think spraying a 'anarchist A' on the jewelry store stone face on 3rd and pike, or smashing the windows in the hallmark store, or starbucks, really amounted to much of anything. And it certainly won't in DC.

I was there. I talked to the protestors. The people breaking stuff are not people you want to associate with.
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. Exactly! The people causing the property damage were people
who were immature idiotic numbskulls who had no interest in, and often no knowledge of, the reasons for the protest. They were there simply to cause trouble.

The actual protesters were great, and were there for We the People.

I agree; the people breaking things are NOT the ones to associate with.

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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #26
66. Government thugs in black pajamas and ski masks
Why would any legitimate protestor want to hide their identity?

The WTO protest in Seattle was fine until those goddamned idiots showed up. And I'll bet every one of them had a government badge in their wallets.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #66
68. No they weren't.
I was there. Those were not 'government thugs in ski masks'. Most of them were teenage punks. Some of them, quite likely my schoolmates.

There have certainly been cases of police plants acting as agents provocateur at union rallies and pickets/protests, but THAT wasn't it.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
28. The Vietnam era marches on Washington were definitely a catalyst for ending that war.
But the public at large had a huge stake in the outcome because THEIR KIDS were dying and being maimed in Vietnam; whereas, now the military families represent less than TWO percent of our population.

When I returned from Vietnam in August of '69 my first attempt to stop the war effort was to go to a HUGE march on D.C. that occurred in Sept or Oct, if memory serves me. I just drove to D.C. by myself and saw a cluster of young folks (who were my age) and asked them where I might stay. They took me to their large, old, grand D.C. home where six or seven students lived. There were at least 50 people--mostly young people--who stayed there the night before the demonstration. It was amazing how serious everyone was. Not that we didn't have fun, but the atmosphere was one of business getting done, rather than a giant party. It was very inspiring.

My understanding is that there were close to a million people there. Only a small core of Weather Underground types started being violent up by Dupont Circle, and of course, the police charged in and shut that down--or so I was told.

I think that David is right that a massive march would have a positive effect on Congress. I think he's off base if he thinks that it will end all of our wars. That would take a national strike that lasted for days or weeks--not a one or two-day affair in D.C.

I'm going to do my best to be in D.C. for the March march. The people of this nation seem to have lost the fire that democratic empowerment requires. Maybe it's the TeeVee or just a collective subconscious feeling that this is beyond our control, so why fight it?

If there was ever a cause worth marching for, stopping these two wars is it.

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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
30. Violence & property damage only cause the "officials" to be even MORE secretive
and to hold their "meetings" in more remote, security-minded locations.

The things that made Viet Nam protests effective were the facts that the media considered it NEWS, and covered it extensively, and that people of all ages & classes protested.

The whole movement actually fell apart once the violence ramped up.

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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
31. We will find we can do what we believe we can...
If we look for reasons to fail..that is what we will find.
If we give up before we start...nothing will change.
Lets go get some of that Change we can believe in.
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AnnieBW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
34. Your Protest Will Only Hurt the "Little People"
If you "shut down DC" with your stupid violent protest, the only people that you'll be hurting are the "little people". The Congresscritters will get to where they need to go regardless of what you do. So will the rich. It's the Federal Workers, the clerical staff, the janitors, the tourists, and assorted others that you will piss off. The people who live in and work around the DC area view protests as a massive PAIN IN THE ASS. We will NOT be sympathetic to your cause if you start smashing windows and beating up on people. Besides, you DO NOT want to cross the Park Police. Seriously. They'll arrest you if you crack a joke that they don't like. I almost got our drumming group kicked out of the Jefferson Memorial for saying "here comes Officer Friendly" when he came to let us into the Memorial. You do not fuck with these guys.

I call protesters like you "seagulls", after the "seagull manager" in Dilbert. Seagulls fly in, make a lot of noise, crap all over everything, then fly away. Please don't be like the teabaggers and crap all over DC.
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. So we wait for anger to fester until it explodes violently in order to avoid being inconvenienced?
There were violent antiwar protests in the 60s. Whose to say they weren't effective? We got the hell out, didn't we? In spite of the fact that damn few of our politicians wanted to go. If we forget the lessons of the 60s, we will relive the mistakes. We already are.

It's not angry activists you have to fear. It's the corrupt lunatic ruling class you harbor within your city that is the problem.

That said, I prefer peaceful shaming of politicians aka Michael Moore-style. Hurray for protestors shouting outside the Lieberman house. Make him uncomfortable. He makes all of our lives more miserable. Stand outside the lobbyists' homes. Protest at their churches. Follow them to work. Unfurl pink lettered banners when they make speeches. Civil disobedience is a matter of conscience. To each according to his ability. We need raging grannies and peaceniks with love beads. We need punks and hippie chicks and college students and mothers and brothers and sons and daughters and fathers all marching. If sone think they need to shout in order to be heard, who are we to say they mustn't?

I can tell you right now I am as fed up with the status quo in DC as I have ever been. I certainly understand David's feelings.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
38. Seattle was fail, enjoy your v&.
The general public couldn't even really figure out what the people in Seattle were protesting. If you really want to turn your protest into a discussion on the ethics of making people late for work then I suppose I can't stop you, but someone else likely will.
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. no Seattle = epic fail
Some will never know what time it is. For many, a light was turned on. Still more were made aware.

I disagree with you 1,000%
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #42
48. "I disagree with you 1,000%" l2 math.
Edited on Wed Nov-18-09 11:19 PM by LoZoccolo
The only people who were impressed with Seattle were other left-wing protesters.
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. evidence?
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. The WTO is still here and there has been no blockade since then.
Edited on Wed Nov-18-09 11:54 PM by LoZoccolo
Besides, you're asking me to prove a negative. Show me these people whose "eyes were opened".
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. You made the claim
support?
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #53
56. Google shows no results.
Edited on Thu Nov-19-09 01:27 AM by LoZoccolo
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 05:41 AM
Response to Reply #56
62. Very good.
:rofl: indeed!
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
43. Spoken like someone who wasn't in Seattle for the WTO.
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kwassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
44. DC has major skills at dealing with protest demonstrations
we are definitely not Seattle.

Every person with a bitch comes to Washington to tell their congresspersons all about it. It has been that way since the beginning of this country. If you think you can pull off something that hasn't been seen many times before, think again.

The anarchists in Seattle killed it for everyone else.
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mrs_p Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
47. i was in seattle at the time
and while i applaud the efforts of the first day - the rest of it was a disaster. having my mom and sister gassed as they walked home from work may sound exciting for some, but not for me...
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #47
71. where was it they were walking home from work?
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
50. Because random window breakage is not revolution. nt
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #50
67. No, that was COINTELPRO
fucking government thugs in pajamas.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #67
72. COINTELPRO does not exist anymore. nt
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
54. Americans are militaristic. We don't do anti-war. We do "anti-imperialist" though
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Bluesbreaker Donating Member (205 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 03:00 AM
Response to Original message
57. Anarchists shut down Seattle, not union marchers
In November 1999, I was working in downtown Seattle on the corner of First and Spring. After work, I'd usually go down to a small health club in the Washington Mutual Tower. On 11/30 I'd listened to the sound of police sirens and riot noise all day, but it was far away. It sounded like it was coming from the Pike Place Market or beyond in Belltown. That day, after I worked out, I left the WaMu Bldg. at about 4:30 pm on the Third Ave. side and began walking to where I usually caught the bus.

At the intersection of University and Third a phalanx of police in riot gear were facing north, staring down a crowd of anarchists who were moving south toward them on Third Ave. The anarchists with their trademark red bandannas were throwing stuff at the police. On command, the police began moving forward in lock step, beating time on their shields with truncheons. From the back rows of the police contingent canisters of tear gas arched into the air and landed in front of and among the protesters. The air quickly filled with clouds of tear gas. Onlookers, including me, were soon enveloped and overwhelmed by chemical mist.

I soon discovered there were no buses operating downtown on the any streets because of the running battles. I had to walk down 2nd Ave. to Denny and catch a bus by the Pacific Science Center to get home to Ballard. As I walked, I learned something about tear gas. It sticks to you, your hair and your clothes. So,you can't really get away from it, and you continue to cough as it keeps irritating your respiratory system long after you've been gassed. When I got on the Ballard bus after a few minutes, the people sitting next to me started coughing along with me. It was a miserable trip.

My point is that the original protests against the WTO didn't shut it down. It was the anarchists and punks who just wanted to break shit that caused the shut down. They didn't have a coherent message, unlike the environmental groups and the workers, but they hijacked the event, provoked the police, which caused the state of siege that shut down the urban of core of Seattle. This is not a model progressives should be seeking to emulate.
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 04:17 AM
Response to Reply #57
59. Agreed.
Peace activists can't follow the lead of a bunch of V wannabes if we want our message heard instead of the sound of truncheons and breaking glass.
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clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-21-09 04:54 AM
Response to Reply #57
74. No, but we can do what the Europeans do to make an impact
on critical issues--general strike. That could shut the whole country down w/o injuries or even property damage. Of course they'd arrest the leaders on charges of "terrorism" w/ help of the horribly misnamed Patriot Act.
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Louisiana1976 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 03:46 AM
Response to Original message
58. Between the President, Congress and other officials in DC, there's too much security
and other law enforcement there?
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PuraVidaDreamin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 05:07 AM
Response to Original message
61. Peace of the Action will work
If we the people decide to make it work. I know many people can't afford the trip, however, can we afford
to travel down the same path we are on now?

The group is working to make it easier for those who travel to DC to have a place in which to stay- and
there will be support for participants.

If you are unable to go do to disability or other circumstances then be supportive of the people who can by
making a donation or passing the info on to all of your friends, family, and acquaintances who may be
able to go. If you live in the area consider opening your home.

Day after Day... If we are able to get 1000 people to clog up some major thoroughfare during the weekday
while congress is in session, and fill their jails daily- eventually tho' the press will surely ignore us- eventually
we will get noticed and the media may just have to ask why the people are angry.

I'm taking a week off this spring, getting a hotel- and will be a part of this important move.
Contact me by pm if you would like to join me- or stay in my hotel, and want a buddy
for safety sake.

David Thanks for posting! See you in the spring!
Peace IN
Peace ON
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clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
64. Glad you found in a book what I wrote you about 8 months ago.
I was only going by what I saw happen during the building of the anti Vietnam War movement.
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TheWebHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
65. WTO Seattle = a bunch of anarchist idiots
nothing to be proud of or emulate. Hasn't been repeated because it was studied and law enforcement has adapted to handle the situation better.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
73. The "Battle of Seattle" has become just that - a story, it is more than simply vital...
that we be sober in these endeavors whilst railing against intractable foes and their mountainous resources. So long as they are able - even to the slightest extent - shake a can full of slap-happy Narina onto the streets we think we own, complete with *I don't wanna work, I just want to bang on da'drum all day* protestations...

...

...

...

Nothing will change period
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-21-09 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
77. k&r n/t
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Imajika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-21-09 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
78. What exactly worked in protesting the WTO?
The WTO has gone on about its business with no interruption.

The rioting in Seattle is not remembered fondly by most people and the unrest and general bad behavior by the most unruly just ended up costing the tax payers money.

Scenes of destructive protests such as what took place in Seattle should be avoided, not encouraged.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-21-09 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
79. What George Carlin referred to as "the pussification of Americans."
Edited on Sat Nov-21-09 08:12 AM by Echo In Light
Americans are door-mats...there isn't any degree of blatant fuck-over that most of em can't be brainwashed into eagerly supporting and participating in.
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