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Charter schools profit greatly from huge money from the Gates, Walton, and Broad Foundations.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:31 PM
Original message
Charter schools profit greatly from huge money from the Gates, Walton, and Broad Foundations.
Public schools are suffering funding setbacks because of the economy, because funding per pupil is taken from them and given to charter schools. It is like a two-fold attack on the public schools amid good benefits for charters.

From the Seattle Education Blog here are some of the ways charter schools get this funding. The blog has the one link, but there are various sections with different headings. I can't find how to link individually to each.

This is one of the most pertinent statements I have seen. Gift Horses with Agendas.

Gift Horses With Agendas

Here lies one of the problems with "philanthropic gifts" of money to school districts: More often than not they come with strings attached. The donor decides how the funds must be spent, making their own subjective value judgment on what is in the best interest of public school kids.


Here is the link and portions of some of the sections.

Seattle Education Blog

First the Broad Foundation.

The Broad Foundation
The Broad (which rhymes with "toad") Foundation claims to be a philanthropic organization, created by billionaire Eli Broad. The Broad Foundation supports privately run charter schools and actively develops a system of charter schools in urban areas.

Broad claims it engages in "venture philanthropy":"Our Approach to Investing: Venture Philanthropy. We take an untraditional approach to giving. We don't simply write checks to charities. Instead we practice 'venture philanthropy.' And we expect a return on our investment."


A return on their investment...what form might that take? Control of the curriculum, a voice in the hiring and firing of teachers?

Many of us have recently discovered the Broad Foundation's presence within SPS and are requesting an explanation for why it is here and what its' objectives are. Broad recently gave SPS a $1M "gift." That money has not shown up on any budget and no one knows how the money is being spent.

..Broad supports and actively promotes mayoral control of school districts. Eli Broad's preferred model of mayoral control means that the mayor selects the school board members and superintendent who are therefore unelected and are beholden only to the mayor, not the people of that city."


Here is something from the Seattle blog about how the Gates Foundation works in schools.

The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation has given Seattle Public Schools a total of $9M this year for additional testing. We have not been able to find out the details of this testing yet. We don't know what the test is, what the test is to determine, who is administering the test and how the results of the tests are to be used.

UPDATE: We have heard that the Gates "gift" may be what's funding the new computerized, standardized "MAP" tests the district is administering this year to all students, from as young as kindergarten to grade 9. MAP stands for "Measures of Academic Progress" (yes, it is a trademarked product) and will be administered to the kids three times during the schoolyear. The test can take as much as two hours each session, according to the district's official announcement letter.

A number of questions come to mind: Is this the best use of the students' school time? Is it appropriate to make children as young as five who can't read take a standardized test on a computer?
Is this the best use of such funds? Or would parents, students and teachers prefer to see money channeled more directly to the classroom, to create smaller class sizes, more enrichment opportunities, or to purchase new textbooks?


First question that comes to mind is what will they ask in return? How will it guide the future of education in those schools, how will it change the curriculum? Gifts seldom come with no strings attached.

I found more about a large donation that the Gates Foundation is making to KIPP Charter Schools. Their CEO compares the gift to Mom and Dad helping them buy a house.

Gates Backs $30 Million in KIPP Bonds

"Like Mom and Dad backing us to buy a home, the Gates Foundation agreed to a total of $30 million in credit enhancements. So we are still responsible for the loan, but the bank knows if we're in trouble they can go to Mom and Dad," Feinberg said.

.."Feinberg said it best: the Gates Foundation is "Mom and Dad," particularly for the "no excuses" KIPP chaingangs and their multiple copycats. The $30 million in backed bonds is part of a $400 million pot of cash to be used for investments - not donations - in program-related expenses. In this case, Gates can back the $30 million without assuming much risk: do you really think Texas would revoke the charter of a KIPP school? If not, those tax dollars will continue flowing to KIPP's well-funded coffers and Bill won't be forced to fork over the $30 million. Call this investment the "Money Is Power Program" - the Gates Foundation can influence public policy by simply having money - they don't even have to spend it!


There is much more at the School Matters blog, and a link to the WSJ complete article.

The Gates Foundation recently donated 100 million to Hillsborough County schools in Florida, public schools. I know that corporations donated old computers to our school before I retired, they donated copy machines, etc.

But in this case Gates donated that 100 million to get the county to install a plan to have merit pay for teachers.

Now the Hillsborough County school system stands on the verge of getting a $100 million boost from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation to emulate that model. The district already a finalist in the foundation's latest, $500 million effort to remake U.S. public education by improving teacher effectiveness was asked this week to submit a contract to carry out its proposal.

Officials say districts in Memphis, Omaha, and Pittsburgh received similar requests, along with a group of Los Angeles charter schools.

"We really see this as groundbreaking work to be done in education," said superintendent MaryEllen Elia. "And we want to be the ones doing it."


What voice will the Gates Foundation have in deciding the standards of the merit pay? $100 million is not given with demanding something in return.

The Walmart Foundation has also joined with that same county's schools and teachers' union to join hands with Florida voucher advocates to train private school teachers

Again, money is being blended between public and private with little accountability.

In a move that experts are calling nearly unprecedented, the Hillsborough County schools and teachers' union have joined forces with a nonprofit Florida voucher group to help train private school teachers.

Step Up for Students which runs the state's tax credit voucher program plans to spend at least $100,000 on classes for teachers who serve its scholarship students, among the county's most economically disadvantaged children. The school district and union will provide space in the jointly developed Center for Technology and Education.


I never heard in all my years of teaching of any move like that being done and accepted. Things are changing very rapidly in public education...almost impossible to keep up.

The mixture of corporate influence combined with the dismantling of public education by taking funds away is a sad thing for this retired teacher to watch.

It looks like some of the largest corporations are buying our system of education.


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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ok... who unrec' my recommended?
K&R peeps
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Happens a lot around here.
I am one of the favorite targets for the unrec folks. They do it before even thinking...it is automatic.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. lol there goes another just like the other one.
This is just ridiculous...if it were a bad post I could understand and expect it. But negative territory?
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Didn't rec or unrec, it's a good post but something about charter schools...
And you and I have had our share of conversations...

Charters are not all the same in every state.

In California we have public charter schools, magnet schools, and we also have private charter schools.

The public charters are open to all, don't take funds away from public schools because they are public schools with union teachers working for county offices of education.

And many of these specialize in taking at risk youth and making them successful.

So I don't know how it is in other states, but maybe broadbrushing all charters with the same "EVIL" brush as florida charters isn't working.

:shrug:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I am pointing out the destruction of public education as charters get funding...
from corporations.

I see danger ahead in the way the corporations are getting footholds.

I did not condemn the schools, I never have. I criticize them as what they are...the beginning of privatization.

I did not broadbrush.
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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-13-09 03:22 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. They are a Trojan horse for corporatists!
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-13-09 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
23. You broadbrushed when failing to make the distinction. n/t
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-13-09 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. No, no broad brush. Read these and get back to me.
I did not think I needed include these in the OP. I guess I should never assume.

It is the defunding of public education and privatization thereof. People don't like to hear it, but that is what is happening. This is just a portion of what I have written. Our Democrats are completing the right wing dream for undermining public schools.

To be sure you understand, hubby and I donated a huge amount to Obama during the campaign. There are two major areas in which I feel he is lacking....the appointments of Arne Duncan and Rahm Emanuel took the party in a different direction that we had hoped. We have stopped all Democratic donations until we see which way the wind is blowing.

Right-wing legal power exploiting loopholes for a fundamentalist takeover of public education.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Palmetto Christian School in Florida joins 7 former Catholic schools, turns charter for public money
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

AP says "ethic rules have been waived" to allow DOE folks to deal more easily with Gates Foundation
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

DOE money to flow to schools which defy their unions. To districts which form charter schools.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Some Catholic schools in Florida converting to charter schools this fall.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

NY public school students get limited use of school library so 3 charter schools can use it.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Private Christian school gets charter school taxpayer money. Expels children of woman who questions.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Jeb Bush is delighted that Obama is taking on teachers' unions.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Up to 250 public schools to be turned over to outside bidders? Called a hostile takeover.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Are the words "school choice" public code words for the movement to privatize public education?
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

"Stand and Deliver" school, Garfield High, sadly is one of 12 schools available to outside bidders
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

The demeaning of public education began under Reagan. It has worked well.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Charter school director blames too-hard tests and pupils tired of test-taking for poor test scores.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

The hodge-podge nature of schools getting public money makes it hard to have funding accountability.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Herbert Kohl on scripted curriculum, surveillance of teachers, and TIME on Arne's 5 billion
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Charter school principals fired after questioning taxpayer money spent on school's real estate arm.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...


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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-13-09 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Gotcha. Distinction apparent in articles. n/t
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valleywine Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-16-09 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #24
55. The fact that Arne was give 5 Billion to kick off his project is
very scary. He has the blessing from the top.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-13-09 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
21. whether or not some charters are "good," the destruction of the public school system
is being undertaken deliberately & systematically by unaccountable big money power working in concert.

Beside that fact, the fact that *your* kid's charter is "good" pales in significance.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-13-09 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. I just rec'd
:thumbsup:
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TicketyBoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-13-09 04:11 AM
Response to Original message
7. For what purpose, do you think?
It looks like some of the largest corporations are buying our system of education.


I am against public funding of private education, whether by voucher or "charter schools."

The public schools should be the best schools in town, so that is where people want to send their children.

I do think that merit pay for teachers may be a good idea. If Wall Street tycoons can walk away with millions in bonuses, maybe some bonus pay for good teachers isn't such a bad idea?

What nefarious motives do you think these foundations have in contributing to public schools? I hate to see them contributing support to private schools at the expense of public schools. I agree with you there. But I just don't see what possible ulterior motives they might have in contributing to public schools?

I know the Gates Foundation has contributed computers to many public libraries across the country. Do you think they have a plan to take over the libraries, too? If so, for what purpose?

I'm fairly certain that Bill Gates is a Democrat. Does that change your perspective any? Can't people give just from the goodness of their hearts?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-13-09 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. It is the defunding of public education and privatization thereof.
Yes, they give money to many. But this goal is different. I gather you see no problem. Most people think it is all fine to defund public education. I am one who does not. I think when Walmart gives about 50 million a year to charter schools which are deregulated, then they will have demands. When Gates give 100 million for merit pay, they will not want experienced teachers....they will want cheaper teachers. They will want a business model, and it is hard to put children in little boxes and do things on the cheap.

Right-wing legal power exploiting loopholes for a fundamentalist takeover of public education.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Palmetto Christian School in Florida joins 7 former Catholic schools, turns charter for public money
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

AP says "ethic rules have been waived" to allow DOE folks to deal more easily with Gates Foundation
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

DOE money to flow to schools which defy their unions. To districts which form charter schools.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Some Catholic schools in Florida converting to charter schools this fall.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Are the words "school choice" public code words for the movement to privatize public education?
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

NY public school students get limited use of school library so 3 charter schools can use it.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

The demeaning of public education began under Reagan. It has worked well.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Private Christian school gets charter school taxpayer money. Expels children of woman who questions.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Jeb Bush is delighted that Obama is taking on teachers' unions.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Up to 250 public schools to be turned over to outside bidders? Called a hostile takeover.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...
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Are_grits_groceries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-13-09 04:18 AM
Response to Original message
8. Is Walmart going to put mini-schools in their stores like
they do mini-clinics? That would roll back education.
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DonCoquixote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-13-09 04:37 AM
Response to Original message
9. For those not in Florida
Keep in mind, Florida politicians are made of two types of people.

1) GOP dixiecrats who wish the state could be forced to return to some idealized past when we were far less developed than the rest of the South. They want the days when the main buildings in the town where the Churches, and the rest farmland that was barely removed from Plantation days. It does not help that we have many Churches that are BIG, so big here that they need trams to move people into the parking lots; they might as well be full blown complexes, complete with arenas!

2) Yankees that came here because they blamed Unions and Taxes for leaving the Rust Belt unlivable. Classic "Reagan Democrats" that bought the propaganda that if those damned democrats stopped raising taxes and put the unions in their place, they would not have had to flee south for jobs and houses.

So, what this means is that our budgets are always starved. The only reason we are not in California style free fall is because Governor Crist took the stimulus money, something he is denying he did right now, because, despite being a shill for the right, he is not extreme enough for the yahoos.

Both sides are frankly hateful of education. Group one thinks that over-educating people is what ruined the good, simple folk of yesteryear, while Group Two keeps saying "I paid Taxes up North to educate kids!" Also, both sides hate the idea of educating brown or black people, after all, education makes them uppity. Both sides also blame liberal teachers, the myth of "incompetent teachers" is strong. Sadly, out teachers sometimes do not do a very good job of defending themselves, after all, they are poorly paid, working out of trailers that replace classrooms, and our administrators are good old boys and girls that seem to run up six figure salaries just to shut people up. The incompetence of these admins adds fuel to the fire, as many a parent has to realize that your kid could be getting gang raped every day in the bathroom and they would not care. Oh, that was not hyperbole, Madflordian herself can tell you that actually happened in Tampa, aka the same Hillsborough county that gates is trying to bribe.

So that is why Florida is ripe for anything that offers the hope that we do not have to pay to educate kids. It is not the idea of charter schools that is evil, provided there is actual, serious government control to make sure the safety net is in place, but when you place big money against a hated, starved institution like public education, you might as well be throwing a Toy Poodle against a Pit Bull!

I say this again and again, there is a reason why the Churches and the Tycoons want to destroy Public Education, it is because, once they do this, they will control which people advance in society, and who does not. It will be clear that if you do not want to be working minimum wage, you better learn to kiss the right ass and serve the right master! Sadly, Florida is perhaps the prime example of this, as the forces that want a mass of frightened, ignorant people are the ones that have their ramparts and artillery well in place.
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Sanity Claws Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-13-09 06:17 AM
Response to Original message
10. It is a matter of concern
OTOH, something must be done to revamp education. Too many kids are dropping out and the schools are teaching to tests, rather than teaching skills needed for higher education and life.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-13-09 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Teachers are FORCED to teach to the test....failure is the result. Thus charter schools.
No school can have every child pass, they never say good job done, they just make the test harder and have more of them.

That is the goal.

The charter schools and vouchers to private schools are the reason for the testing. Trust me, teachers are not doing this on their own. They have scripted stuff to follow.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...
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BolivarianHero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-13-09 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
12. Bill Gates...
Good: Supports estate tax.

Bad: Everything else.
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TicketyBoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-13-09 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. I'd appreciate a link
to a reliable source on Bill Gates' politics.

Because, he wouldn't have had to set up a charitable foundation, you know? He could have just kept raking it in. After you get to a certain point, you must wonder, "What is the point?" and that is when the philanthropy starts. If you read the autobiography of Andrew Carnegie, you get to understand this mindset. A ruthless businessman suddenly has an epiphany about having all he will ever need and suddenly he sees he can help to fix the ills of society, and realizes that "You can't take it with you." And it really doesn't have to have some nefarious motive. I mean, what is Gates' motive for his vaccination program in third-world countries?

I can't become such a pessimist as to think that there are no goodhearted wealthy people in this world. I just can't.

I do think that charter schools should be outlawed because of the drain on public schools. This is the wrong road to head down, and I fear that it's too late to stop it.

I understand parents wanting to send their kids to parochial schools, but I'm not so sure that even they should not be shut down. Public schools need to be the only schools in town so that affluent parents will be involved and supportive of public education. In my opinion, that is the only way to keep the public school system strong. It's akin to the draft. We should all be in it together, and rich kids shouldn't have an "easy out."

These "black and brown" kids are going to grow up, and if we don't support their education, we will be supporting the prisons to house them or the food stamps they will be forced to live on. A lot of wealthy Democrats (think Ted Kennedy, for example) know that the whole country survives by educating the less fortunate among us so they are as successful as they can be. I can't see why everyone doesn't get that fact. Michelle Obama is gung-ho for public education, but not so gung-ho as to enroll her kids in the public school whose students helped her harvest the White House vegetable garden. I understand her position "the best for my kids," but I think she is wrong because everyone should have access to the best for our kids (just like everyone should have decent and affordable health care).

Our son was having trouble in public education. My husband was vice president of the PTA for two years straight, but, ultimately we knew he was going to have to change schools. Rather than sending our child to private school, we moved from our home of 23 years to a better public school district for his final year of elementary school. Now that is really laying your support for the public school system on the line, and putting your money where your mouth is. It would have cost much less to send him to private school than it would have to move from our gorgeous five-bedroom home "on the wrong side of the tracks" to a modest three-bedroom in a better school district, but we support public schools to the point that that is what we did.

I'll say it again. Public schools should be the ONLY option, because then, and only then, will they be the BEST option, and that is what all kids deserve, not just a privileged few.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-13-09 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. You bought the PR spin. Oh, yeah, Carnegie & Gates just got tired of making money & decided
to do "good".

In your dreams.
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TicketyBoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 04:28 AM
Response to Reply #22
30. Our little podunk town
in the middle of Nebraska got a Carnegie library and so did a lot of other little podunk towns all across the nation.

More recently, a lot of those libraries got computers through the Gates Foundation.

I don't see how either benefactor stood to gain anything but the satisfaction of helping educate the nation (and maybe a little goodwill) from these donations.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 05:14 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. gates gets:
Edited on Sun Nov-15-09 05:29 AM by Hannah Bell
1. to keep millions of dollars of profit without paying taxes on them
2. to keep the foundation principle & invest it (numerous benefits there, politically & business-wise)
3. to "gift" some of the profit of those investments in things like library & school computers, which at the time (when computers weren't in most households) served him by 1) promoting the move of libraries into computerization & the use of ms products in regional, school, & university systems, 2) familiaring naive users with the ms desktop & programs, making it more likely they'd buy ms and 3) giving gates PR cred.
4) using foundation money to give relatives, friends, & political contacts jobs, & to influence local & regional politics through the distribution of $$$.
5) promoting policies he favors in other initiatives, for example:

* gates is one of the biggest funders of charter school initiatives
* gates is *the* biggest funder of genetically modified ag & medical research, not only in the US, but overseas (= patents, patents, patents)
* gates is one of the biggest promoters of marketization in the third world
* gates is destroying culture in the third world, for example, by giving incomes to women at the expense of men, thus upsetting traditional authority & family systems (an old strategy, used to good effect, for example, in poor & ethnic communities in the US)

these things benefit gates & his ilk.


anyone who believes his PR is a dunce. he controls billions of dollars in tax-free capital though his foundation & he's using it to shape the world economy in ways that benefit him & his, unaccountably, non-transparently & non-democratically.

he & people like him are no different from the lords of yesteryear. what gives gates the right to mold education & ag policy?

ps: all the carnegie foundations *still exist*, i.e. the capital wasn't dissipated by building his nice little libraries. & carnegie is working with gates & other so-called "philanthropies" to push charter schools & defund public ed.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=carnegie...

foundations = policy-making arms of the ruling class. & we, the peons, praise the masters for their "generosity" even as they're shaping, controlling, & manipulating us, our environment, & our very identities & life chances.

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TicketyBoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. I believe
I've just been called a dunce.

It's okay. I'd rather be me than you.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. easier to pretend offense than to respond to the facts.


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TicketyBoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Easier
to insult someone than deal with the facts.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. if you're insulted, it's because you choose to be. there's a long list of facts in the post,
which you choose to ignore as well.
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TicketyBoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #39
51. You're saying
that we would be better off without the library? Without the computers?

Because we would have done without if they hadn't donated them.

Yep. Better off turning down those things from philanthropic sources because, you know, old Andrew Carnegie wants to have control over you from the grave.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-16-09 05:40 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. you asked for ways they benefit.
Edited on Mon Nov-16-09 05:45 AM by Hannah Bell
Carnegie had heirs, you know.

Here's the husband of just one of them:

"A paternal grandson of William Rockefeller, his maternal grandfather James Stillman and uncle James Alexander Stillman served as president of the National City Bank of New York, now Citibank. His father was William Goodsell Rockefeller and his mother Sarah Elizabeth Stillman.

He graduated from Yale University in 1924, where he was elected to Scroll and Key...

On April 15, 1925, he married Nancy Carnegie, grandniece of Andrew Carnegie."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Stillman_Rockefeller


You got some lousy "free" computers, they get to run the world.


Oh, & PS: Bill Gates' great-grandpa was a National City Bank man, too.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=national+city+bank...

Hope you like them computers!
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TicketyBoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-17-09 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #53
56. I don't need the computers,
but there are a lot of kids in town whose only access to a computer are those in the library.

And you can bet they like "them computers."

So, they get to run the world, eh? Well, I reckon somebody is going to be in that position (seeing as how a power vacuum will never exist), and I'd rather have it be someone who is going to give something back than someone who isn't.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-17-09 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #56
58. lol. yes, thank you massa, thank you!!
Edited on Tue Nov-17-09 06:36 AM by Hannah Bell
maybe you never heard about it, there's this thing called actual democracy.

oh, & ps, you've got it backwards, it's the slaves who give to the massa, not the reverse.
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TicketyBoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-17-09 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. What are you?
18, maybe?

there's this thing called actual democracy.


It's an ideal, not actuality.

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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #60
63. yes, meanwhile, toady to massa fo the computers that cost him nothing.
Edited on Wed Nov-18-09 12:58 AM by Hannah Bell
tax writeoff.

bill gates still world's richest man.
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TicketyBoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #63
65. For what it's worth
I don't "toady" to Bill Gates. I use a Mac.

But I still appreciate the kids in town having access to computers when they wouldn't otherwise, and if it took a tax write-off to get them, I reckon everybody wins.
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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #22
46. And don't forget junk bond king Michael Milken
He gives out "awards" every year in his attempt to be a do-gooder for education.

Once a crook, always a crook, I say.
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DonCoquixote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-13-09 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. Nice opinion but
Everyone forgets that there is a good reason why Obama's kids cannot go to public school, with all the wackos with guns out there, the effort needed to kep them for getting killed would be unreasonable for any school to take on, especially as many of these gun crazed yahoos will think nothing of killing Jack and Jill Q Public school student in order to kill Obama's kids.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #18
40. You would be better off to pick another model for the "good hearted billionaire" example.
This scion of wealth's history is the stuff that would land any mere "useless eater" in a penitentiary for decades, but being the club gets you not only a lifetime get out of jail card, it gets investigations quashed and special exemptions so that your criminal enterprise can capture the entire market despite demonstrably inferior and even harmful products.

The Gates Foundation itself is primarily a tax dodge.


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TicketyBoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. And there is no such thing as
philanthropy.

I pity people who are so cynical.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. Not cynical, an eye witness.
There are literally thousands of pages of evidence documenting their criminality. Theft, fraud, conspiracy, and collusion leaving a trail of wrecked lives and ruined families are the legacy of this "decent man".

It simply boggles the mind that someone who purports to care about their fellow humans can blithely ignore greed and destruction on this scale, let alone hold it up as a model to be emulated.


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TicketyBoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. Maybe you'd like to cite some proof?
Edited on Sun Nov-15-09 07:29 PM by TicketyBoo
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=...

More good than bad there.

Conspiracy theories are supposed to be confined to the 9/11 forum.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detai...

Posts about so-called "conspiracy theories" are not permitted on Democratic Underground, except in the September 11 forum.


Here ya go:

http://egomania.nu/gates.html

Just as well make it full-fledged nutty since that's where you're headed.

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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. If you had even the slightest interest in learning the sordid history of
Bill, Steve, and Al I might bother to dig it up, but the fact that it is so readily available and you seem to have missed it all and turned to personal attacks indicates that you are not.

I've spent way too many hours putting pieces together satisfying the ever popular "link?" retort, only to have the work ignored, the criticism turned to the punctuation of the cited article, or the subject changed entirely to do it any more.


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TicketyBoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Just
as I had supposed.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-16-09 05:50 AM
Response to Reply #50
54. Jesus. Wall Street just pulled off a major heist, & you want a link to "prove" that
rich people steal.

Why do you think they called them "robber barons"?

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TicketyBoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-17-09 03:39 AM
Response to Reply #54
57. Gross generalization.
Poor people steal, too. Why do you think they call them burglars and thieves?

How does that work for you?

Gross generalization, right? So was yours.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-17-09 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #57
59. who steals more? no contest. who steals more regularly? no contest.
Edited on Tue Nov-17-09 06:39 AM by Hannah Bell
who steals as a routine part of "doing business"?

no contest.

look behind the curtain & pr spin at any big fortune & you'll find theft, fraud & blood. guaranteed.
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TicketyBoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-17-09 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Comparing
actual "more" as in dollars? Could be quite a contest.

As in numbers of instances? Really quite a contest!
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #61
64. there's no contest. $500 billion-plus since 1/09.
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TicketyBoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #64
66. Not sure where
you'd find the figures on burglaries and common theft, store and bank robberies and such, but they do mount up.
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Orwellian_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-13-09 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
13. K&R
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-13-09 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
15. great... corporate fascism now runs education
Edited on Fri Nov-13-09 10:10 AM by fascisthunter
wonderful... this country is fucked!
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-13-09 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Waaayyy fucked!
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Cyrano69 Donating Member (45 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-13-09 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
19. Sorry, I know this is going to piss some people off but...
The old canard about charter schools depriving public schools of money is just that, a canard.

In my District, for example, we have a $62,000,000 budget(I am rounding) for 4,653 children in the district. That means my district receives $13,325.00/kid in a combination of Federal, State, and Local tax money.

The highest Charter re-imbursement in the country is $7,300 I believe, could be wrong about the exact figure, but it is around there. In my state it is $4,500.

So for every child my district loses to a charter, we lose one child that we no longer have to expend resources on, and we lose $4,500.

The balance of that childs funding, $8,825.00 STAYS with my district. So on an economic level, the district shows a "profit" for want of a better term, or an increase in per pupil dollars available for every child that transfers to a charter.

BTW, according to the state and federal funding formula, we only spend $9,300 in per pupil education spending. That is because the formulas for reporting spending eliminate costs like buildings, maintenance, support staff, administration costs. This is something you have to watch out for when evaluating educational spending. I find the most honest method of calculating the expense is to divide the budget by the number of kids.

Try it with your school district you will be shocked!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-13-09 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Yes, indeed.
Taking money from public schools leaves them more money and less children to worry about.

Yes, indeed, I have heard that before. I have swamp land in Florida for you.

:shrug:
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Cyrano69 Donating Member (45 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-13-09 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. I am only telling how it works in my district...
If you can refute the numbers lets hear it
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montanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-13-09 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. You missed something.
The OP. Canard or no, the OP is talking about the massive influence of charter funding coming from Gates, Broad, et al. You don't mention that at all. Not to mention that your argument is fallacious. When the student leaves, so does the funding. All of it. That doesn't mean that all of the funding from a public school goes straight to the charter when the student leaves, but when the student leaves, the funding goes too. According to your numbers 1 student = $13,325., and 0 students = $ 8,825.? Nope. In the real world 0 students = $ 00,000.00.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 05:30 AM
Response to Reply #27
33. thank you. i doubt the OP will address his error, however.
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Cyrano69 Donating Member (45 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #27
35. Except that in NH...
schools are predominately funded by property taxes. The budget is set at town meeting. When a child chooses not to re enroll to go to a private school, or a charter, the child leaves, but the budget stays the same. As for a charter, the charter gets $4,500, the rest of that funding is already, and remains in our budget.
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Bluesbreaker Donating Member (205 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
29. Thanks
Thank you for bringing attention to this attempt to sabotage
public education.
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optimator Donating Member (606 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 04:37 AM
Response to Original message
31. I predict Democrats will join repubs on this issue
in killing public education.
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valleywine Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. Dems in many states are racing to compete for Race to the Top
grants. NO matter the consequences.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. The irony of that title still makes me laugh.
"Race to the Top" :rofl:


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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #34
42. Seriously.
They should be calling it Survivor: Public Education
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
43. Belated Kick & Wish I Could Rec This
Goddamn, I'm not gonna give up, but it's hard after the beating I got on MTP this morning. I'm nobody's doormat. I'll punch back. Count on it.
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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
45. The Eli Broad story can be found right here
The Broad Report


This has links to Broad's various projects to destroy public schools, the worst of which is the superintendents' "academy."
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-17-09 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #45
62. That is an excellent blog and resource on all things Broad.
Thanks for sharing....will spend some time there.

:hi:
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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
52. Charters ain't what they're cracked up to be
SCOTTSDALE, ARIZ. -- Here, where suburb meets desert, students are clambering amid the cacti to dig soil samples and take notes on flora and fauna. In an old movie complex in nearby Chandler, others are dissecting a Renaissance tract on human nature. On a South Phoenix campus with a National Football League connection, still others are learning how to pass a basket of bread and help a lady into her chair.

These are just three charter schools among a multitude in the most wide-open public education market in America.

Arizona's flourishing charter school movement underscores the popular appeal of unfettered school choice and the creativity of some educational entrepreneurs. But the state also offers a cautionary lesson as President Obama pushes to dismantle barriers to charter schools elsewhere: It is difficult to promote quantity and quality at the same time.

More
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