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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 01:22 PM
Original message
10 Reasons to Abolish the Death Penalty
By 2004, 118 countries had abolished the death penalty, in law or practice. An average of three countries abolish the death penalty every year. The worldwide trend towards abolition of the death penalty is reflected in the Africa region, where 24 members of the African Union had abolished the death penalty, in law or practice, by 1 October 2004.(1) Here are ten reasons for the total abolition of this degrading and inhuman punishment:

1 - the death penalty violates the right to life.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) recognises each persons right to life. Article 4 of the African Charter on Human and Peoples Rights (ACHPR) states that "human beings are inviolable. Every human being shall be entitled to respect for his life and the physical and moral integrity of his person." This view is reinforced by the existence of international and regional treaties providing for the abolition of the death penalty, notably the second optional protocol of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, adopted by the General Assembly of the United Nations in 1989.

2 - the death penalty is a cruel and inhuman death.

The UDHR categorically states that "No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment."All forms of execution are inhuman. No government can guarantee a dignified and painless death to condemned prisoners, who also suffer psychological pain in the period between their sentence and execution.

3 - the death penalty has no dissuasive effect.

No scientific study has proved that the death penalty has a more dissuasive effect on crime than other punishments. The most recent investigation into the links of cause and effect between capital punishment and the murder rate, was conducted by the United Nations in 1988 and updated in 2002. It came to the following conclusion: "...it is not prudent to accept the hypothesis that capital punishment deters murder to a marginally greater extent than does the threat and application of the supposedly lesser punishment of life imprisonment."

4 - the death penalty is premeditated murder, demeans the state and makes society more violent.

By executing a person, the state commits a murder and shows the same readiness to use physical violence against its victim as the criminal. Moreover, studies have shown that the murder rate increases immediately after executions. Researchers have suggested that this increase is similar to that caused by other violent public events, such as massacres and assassinations.

5 - the death penalty is discriminatory in its application.

Throughout the world, the death penalty is disproportionately used against disadvantaged people. Some condemned prisoners from the most impoverished social classes would not have been sentenced to death if they were from wealthier sectors of society. In these cases, either the accused are less able to find their way through the maze of the judicial system (because of a lack of knowledge, confidence or financial means), or the system reflects the generally negative attitude of society and the powerful towards them. It has also been proved that certain criminals run a greater risk of being condemned to death if their victims come from higher social classes.

6 - the death penalty denies the capacity of people to mend their ways and become a better person.

Defenders of the death penalty consider that anyone sentenced to death is unable to mend their ways and could re-offend at any time if they are released. However, there are many examples of offenders who have been reintegrated and who have not re-offended. Amnesty International believes that the way to prevent re-offending is to review procedures for conditional release and the psychological monitoring of prisoners during detention, and under no circumstances to increase the number of executions. In addition, the death penalty removes any possibility for the condemned person to repent.

7 - the death penalty cannot provide social stability nor bring peace to the victims.

An execution cannot give the victim his or her life back nor ease the suffering felt by their family. Far from reducing the pain, the length of the trial and the appeal procedure often prolong the familys suffering.

8 - the death penalty denies the fallibility of human institutions.

The risk of executing innocent people remains indissolubly linked to the use of the death penalty. Since 1973, 116 people condemned to death in the United States have been released after proof of their innocence has been established. Some of them have only just escaped execution, after having passed years on death row. These repeated judicial errors have been especially due to irregularities committed by prosecution or police officers, recourse to doubtful evidence, material information or confessions, or the incompetence of defence lawyers. Other prisoners have been sent to their deaths when serious doubts existed about their guilt.

9 - the death penalty is a collective punishment.

This punishment affects all the family, friends and those sympathising with the condemned person. The close relatives of an executed prisoner, who generally do not have anything to do with the crime, could feel, as a result of the death penalty, the same dreadful sense of loss as the victims parents felt at the death of their loved one.

10 - the death penalty goes against the religious and humanist values that are common to all humanity.

Human rights are universal, indivisible and interdependent. They are based on many traditions that can be found in all civilisations. All religions advocate clemency, compassion and forgiveness and it is on these values that Amnesty International bases its opposition to the death penalty.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. k&r
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
2. Kicked and recommended.
Thanks for the thread, ProudDad.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. 118 outta 190, or so. Which does the US share its zeal for continuing it?
Rec
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. It's part of the circuses part of "Bread and Circuses"
that all Empires must supply their citizens to keep them asleep...and docile...
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. _




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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Because most Americans support the death penalty.
As with so many issues, education of the electorate is key.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. ??? No, not "why," but which other countries are aligned w/US re DP?
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. OH!
:blush:

Well there are lots of countries who don't do it often but still use it for some crimes.

There's a good map here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_capital_punishment_...
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Thanks for providing the link
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
4. K&R. nt
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
6. 1. If it's wrong to kill, then it's wrong to kill.
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jtrockville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
26. ^ hard to argue with that one
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Knight Hawk Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
53. Not same
Killing and murder do not completely overlap.This man, from all I know ,certainly deserved to die
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #53
65. delete.
Edited on Wed Nov-11-09 10:08 PM by Iggo
Pax.

:toast:
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. K&R!
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
8. Ah, I see the no-necks from the death squads
Edited on Wed Nov-11-09 01:30 PM by ProudDad
are doing a nice job of unrec'ing this thread already...

Way to go...

Ignore the truth and it will go away...

Hell, it worked for the republicans...
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
10. Number one is used by anti-abortion asshats. n/t
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. Playing fast and loose with the term "murder" is another thing that anti-choice...
advocates and anti-DP advocates share
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
30. There's a big difference
between a set of undifferentiated stem cells...

and a completely formed, possibly temporarily flawed human being...

The woman who chooses not to be a "mother" is exercising control over the processes of her own body...

The State commits Murder...
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. Thank you for proving my point, FastandLooseDad
You guys always take the bait, don't you?

Murder is a precisely defined legal term, but go ahead and ignore that fact away...
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #37
50. Murder by the state is no different than murder by
an individual. Why do we not allow victims' families to kill murderers?

It is morally wrong and it's shameful that this country stands alone among developed and even some under-developed countries in its practice of state-sanctioned murder.

As the rest of the world moves forward towards ridding itself of these grotesque practices, the US falls further behind.

The death penalty is all about revenge. It diminishes the humanity of those countries that engage in it. We can be proud of who we are partners with in this crime. But we are even behind Saudi Arabia in our zeal for revenge killing. They recently outlawed the execution of minors who commit crimes. We still try them as adults and then, wait for them to grow and kill them.

I am ashamed of this country. We execute feeble, sick and dying old people. This country has no soul. Even though support for the DP has gone down from 80% in the nineties to approx 65% now, that is still a frightening number of people who support this violence by the state.

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Jkid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
12. 11th Reason: It's a waste of money
Mostly because of the automatic appeals process for every death penalty case after conviction.
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thenooch Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
13. What if the condemned...
Chooses to be euthanized?

Would it be "cruel and unusual" to keep him alive?

Was saving Major Hasan's life cruel (and expensive), only so he can be
tried and executed?

Justice; it's a tough call.

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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. That little bastard obviously wanted to die....
so it would be best to keep him alive.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #15
32. Revenge is wasteful and counter-productive
Rehabilitation is cheap and a social good...

Too bad we don't do it here in the USAmerikan Empire...
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. You think a mass murderer can be rehabilitated?
:crazy:
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #35
49. Yes...
and so does medical science...
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #49
64. By all means....
please point me to that "study".
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
16. Who did your offspring murder?
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Libertas1776 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
19. You know,
there are some real sick bastards out there who IMHO who deserve nothing less than a date with the executioner. However, I am against the death penalty, not because of some moral objections or otherwise as noted by my first sentence. I am against it because man and man's laws and judgment are not infallible, and sometimes people are wrongfully convicted (I'm looking at you, Texas). The risk that even just one single person could end up executed for a crime he or she did not commit (I'm looking at you again, Texas) is too great of a risk to have such a punishment. Until such time that man's laws and man's judgment can be made 100% foolproof so that no innocent man or woman will be put to death (Of course, such a time will probably never occur, or at least not for a very, very, very, very long time) I am against the death penalty.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
21. K&R
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
22. My fundamental problem with the death penalty is that it's irreversible.
What if new evidence comes to light after an execution proving that the executed was innocent? You can free a wrongly imprisoned person from jail, but you can't bring them back from the dead.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #22
69. Drop the "what if." It's happened.
His name is Cameron Todd Willingham, and he lived in Corsicana, Texas. The heater in his daughters' bedroom set the house on fire. He couldn't get them out in time, even though he tried. The prosecutor in Corsicana decided to portray Mr. Willingham as someone who murdered his children because they interfered with his own selfish pleasures. Said prosecutor used discreditable evidence to "prove" Willingham set the fire. A good arson investigator reexamined the evidence and came to the conclusion that everything he saw was just how houses burn down. Didn't matter, though; the state of Texas wound up whacking Mr. Willingham on a gurney in Huntsville, Texas.

The death penalty would be fine with me if (1) you could absolutely prove the accused person did it, (2) said person had the best-quality legal representation and (3) there are other extenuating circumstances. An example would be the person who lived in the White House between the time President Clinton moved out and President Obama moved in. You KNOW he killed a million Iraqis because his oil was under Saddam's sand, his family has the money to hire any lawyer it wants, and the extenuating circumstances are that he wanted to further enrich the people who bankrolled him.
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Blecht Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
23. Excellent
You cannot lay it out any clearer than this.

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Amaya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
24. and
Countries with the Most Confirmed Executions in 2008
1. China (1,718) 4. United States (37)
2. Iran (346) 5. Pakistan (36)
3. Saudi Arabia (102) 6. Iraq (34)

Countries with the Most Confirmed Executions in 2007
1. China (470) 4. Pakistan (135)
2. Iran (317) 5. United States (42)
3. Saudi Arabia (143)

Countries with the Most Confirmed Executions in 2006
1. China (1,010) 4. Iraq (65)
2. Iran (177) 5. Sudan (65)
3. Pakistan (82) 6. United States (53)


Countries with the Most Confirmed Executions in 2005
1. CHINA (1,770) 6. Yemen (24)
2. IRAN (94) 7. Vietnam (21)
3. SAUDI ARABIA (86) 8. Jordan (11)
4. UNITED STATES (60) 9. Mongolia (8)
5. Pakistan (31) 10. Mongolia (8)
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/death-penalty-internati ...

this is fucking shameful !
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
25. my thoughts
"1 - the death penalty violates the right to life."

I doubt that the USA is a signature of anything that outlaws the death penalty. For that matter, I doubt China, Russia or most Middle-Eastern countries are either.

2 - the death penalty is a cruel and inhuman death.

What death isn't? Yeah, it's wrong to torture people. Still, that does not mean it has to be free from discomfort. This all comes down to means of execution and many of them are torturous. I don't think life in prison is any less cruel.

3 - the death penalty has no dissuasive effect.

That's probably true, especially if it takes years to execute.

4 - the death penalty is premeditated murder, demeans the state and makes society more violent.

It may be that it does justify violence. Of course dragging someone off to prison for years isn't much less violent. Neither is eviction from ones home or loss of ones income. The fact is society is full of violence. We by and large just don't see it. Consider our sports or media entertainment. On some level violence seems to be part of what makes us human, especially for men.

It is not murder. By definition, murder is unlawful. The writer is assuming a moral equivalence between murder and execution without justifying it. This is a logical error called fallacy of equivocation, where one uses a word with multiple meaning to draw a false equivalency.

5 - the death penalty is discriminatory in its application.

Yes. The 14th Amendment requires equal protection of the laws. This is violated on an hourly basis in the criminal justice system. Every time a cop pulls over a Black driver for something he would have let slide for a white driver, equal protection is violated. Every time a Latino waits an hour for a police car where a white person would have waited five minutes, an equal protection violation occurred. In this DA's office, I am aware of a time when the police tried to stonewall (sorry for the word choice) the investigation of a gay-on-gay crime. (Our DA insisted that the case be fully investigated.)

In a system that executes more Blacks than whites in a country where only one in ten are Black, it is impossible not to see it as unconstitutional discrimination.

6 - the death penalty denies the capacity of people to mend their ways and become a better person.

Repentance as a virtue comes from Christian theology. It is the idea that anyone can be redeemed (a pawn-broker's term) from sin by confessing and accepting god. I wonder if this doctrine has done more harm than good as it pressures victims to forgive their abusers and to act like it never happened. I personally have been on the receiving end of that crap from my mother regarding one of her ex-husbands.

Frankly, a criminal penalty is about what a defendant did, not what he might do in the future. It is about his actions and not about his soul or whatever.

7 - the death penalty cannot provide social stability nor bring peace to the victims.

That's true. And after the defendant is executed, victims often note that they still don't have "closure" for the reasons mentioned here.

8 - the death penalty denies the fallibility of human institutions.

True. I think in most people's minds, this is the biggest objection to the DP. Of course the same thing can be said for crimes generally and no crime has as much due process as a capital offense. So this is really a criticism of our whole system, and a correct one too.

9 - the death penalty is a collective punishment.

True. So is prison, but not to the same degree.

10 - the death penalty goes against the religious and humanist values that are common to all humanity.

Now that is a lot of nonsense. Read the Bible sometime. There are lists of crimes and non-crimes that demand the death sentence in response. All of the Big Three Abrahamic religions not only allow the DP, but demand it. And I'm sure they are not the only religions to do so.

And the instinct to cast out or kill someone who does something horrible is fundamental to our nature.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. ???
"And the instinct to cast out or kill someone who does something horrible is fundamental to our nature."

Maybe to your nature...

Not to mine...
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Progservative_n_SC Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
27. the death penalty denies the capacity of people to mend their ways and become a better person
So we just all kumbaya with the murderer, he has seen the light and now is a productive member of society? I am no advocate for the death penalty, but to talk about redeeming someone who took a life and basically act like nothing happened? What about the rights of the victim that were basically pissed on with no appeal, no recourse, and no 'redemption'?

The reason many in this country defend the death penalty is that if it were banned there would be a vocal group demanding that Life without parole is cruel and unusual and must be ended. Before long murder would be nothing more than maybe 25 years in a cell with free health care, dental, and three hot meals a day.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Hey, it's done all the time...
Edited on Wed Nov-11-09 02:49 PM by ProudDad
"but to talk about redeeming someone who took a life and basically act like nothing happened?"

1) Who's saying "act like it never happened". I'm saying learn from it...
2) It's done all the time...those cold blooded murderers in the "military" are sent out to kill innocents and then return to "society"...

Life without parole IS cruel and unusual (and counter-productive) punishment...

As are the criminal breeding grounds and state sponsored torture chambers; jails and prisons...

There are better, more productive ways of dealing with folks who cross the line...
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Progservative_n_SC Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. And what would that be
A brief stay in a mental lockup and a monitored release at a later date with a firm 'Don't do that again you lil scamp! We will be watching...maybe...if we can get the funding...'

As far as your thinly veiled insult of the military there is a difference in what they do versus the mindset of JM and LM. If we have to debate that you are too far down a road that no amount of logic can save you from.

I am glad you see killing as a 'learning moment' for us...too bad the victim is the one who pays the tuition for that class with their life.

Your mindset is the reason we will have the death penalty for the foreseeable future and provides the RW with an example to show why it must be kept.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #34
48. Total bullshit!
Edited on Wed Nov-11-09 07:18 PM by ProudDad
This is the stupidest statement I have EVER seen posted on DU...

"Your mindset is the reason we will have the death penalty for the foreseeable future"

And that's saying something!!!

Wow!!!

What bullshit!

That's like saying that Ghandi prolonged the British Raj, Mandela extended Apartheid and Martin Luther King's thought processes kept black people from the vote.

Wow, you should last long here... :rofl:
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Progservative_n_SC Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #48
57. Take it for what it is worth
Using arguments like

- the death penalty denies the capacity of people to mend their ways and become a better person.
--laughable on its face. Makes murder look no worse than burglary or wire fraud " Wow, if we just understand why he did it we can heal him"

Why not just admit it. You desire a world where there is no real punishment for heinous crimes...none. Some people have to be removed from society. Some crimes are bad enough to warrant life with no chance of ever seeing light of day again, whether they 'rehabilitate' or not.

You can call my statement the stupidest ever if you wish. I actually admire your Pollyanna mentality on the issue. It must be nice to spout off empty rhetoric and insults over a subject. My statement may have been a little too much for you to understand...let me make it a little easier for you to understand

As long as simple minded Pollyanna's continue to believe that every murder is a victim and even life incarceration is cruel and unusual, another segment is never going to even bend because they know that when the DP is gone the next target is Life no Parole and even Life with a chance at parole.

Hope this helps. If not I can include pictures and lower the reading level a little further for you. Not wishing to be insulting but if you wish to be an idiot toward me I have plenty of time to throw it right back at ya buddy :)




:)
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #27
38. Actually, the OP of this thread is indeed one of those people who...
claims "that Life without parole is cruel and unusual and must be ended"

He is wrong about that, also.
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TK421 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #38
60. Seriously?
:rofl: now that is twisted
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
31. Only one reason to ban the death penalty...it's not perfect. Period. n/t
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Revenge is wasteful and counter-productive
Rehabilitation is cheap and a social good...
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. I often wonder when the last time someone counted the innocent...
that were accused and put to death by the state.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #36
46. Here are a few who are counting...
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #46
55. Thank you! n/t
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Egalitariat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #46
58. I just read through those sites. I wish I had a paper due on "Innuendo" as there
are enough examples there for me to write a doctoral thesis.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #36
47. Here are a few who are counting...
Edited on Wed Nov-11-09 07:13 PM by ProudDad
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
39. my preferred reason: what government deserves the power to kill its own subjects?
NO GOVERNMENT should have the power to kill its own subjects, period.

for a country founded by people with a healthy mistrust of government, you would think this would be a basic, well accepted concept.

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gopiscrap Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
40. Excellent article thanks for sharing!!!
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
41. 11. No definitive proof that it is punishment.
Edited on Wed Nov-11-09 05:34 PM by lonestarnot
12. Execution of the innocent does happen.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
42. As a death penalty supporter the only argument that resonates with me is killing innocent people


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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Well, the pro-death forces have been very
successful at killing innocent people...

Congratulations...
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #45
62. Nothing to be smug about.

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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
43. K&R
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invader zim Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
44. too bad I can only unrec once....
N/T.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #44
51. And I'm glad I can wipe out your unrec with a rec
K&R for a humane and sane society because we sure don't live in one now ~
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. Heh!
:D Carry on!
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invader zim Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #51
61. awww..that's no way to be.
We live in a more sane society now that John Allen Muhammed is no longer using up our valuable oxygen. There is NOTHING wrong with the state protecting it's citizens by permanently removing such inhuman vermin like J.A. Muhammed.

At least we are certain that he won't kill again.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. Yep, I heard that same argument after they executed
Edited on Wed Nov-11-09 09:38 PM by sabrina 1
Timothy McVeigh. That execution sure saved the lives of these victims and all the others murdered since then didn't it?

I'm sad that the only solution this country has to end mass murder is to murder the murderer. There are other solutions you know. Your response reminded me of someone else whose only solution to everything was to kill also. Your response reminded me of George Bush ~ seriously, that was George Bush's theory also.

I saw Bill O'Reilly interview him right before the 2000 election. In one of his finer moments, Billo actually asked a pretty intelligent question of our future killer-in-chief. It went something like this:

Bill: So, who would say is your hero?

George: (attempting to look thoughtful) Well, Bill, I'd have to say that Jesus is my hero!

Bill: Really? So, George, you are in favor of the death penalty. In fact you've killed more people in Texas than any other governor (paraphrasing) How do you think Jesus would feel about the Death Penalty considering he was a victim of it himself?

George: (looking like his brain was hurting, finally answered) Well, Bill, the way I see it, you have to kill the killers to stop the killing!


Recognizing irony was never George's strong point ~

Bill O'Reilly is, or was against the Death Penalty, one of the reasons I didn't give up on him totally for a while. George as we all know, would probably get a kick out of killing anything that moved if he get away with it. I didn't know much about him back then but that response told me all I needed to know. I called my Republican sister and begged her not to vote for him. I told her, seriously, 'this guy is going to start a war somewhere and kill innocent people'. She didn't listen, unfortunately.

It doesn't work, so if that's your reason for supporting it, you're just wrong. It's not humane. It doesn't matter that the killer is not humane, why would you allow him the power to turn you into a killer also, especially if you hate what he did?

I hate what he did, that is why I refuse to imitate it. His solution to what he saw as injustice was to kill. How is it different when the state does it? Think about it, you could find other solutions without compromising your own spirit. Most other nations have and they think we are barbarians here.
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dontfollowmeb Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
52. 12 Reasons Why We Should Have it,,
12 Die in Terrorist attack on Ft Hood
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ElboRuum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 04:55 AM
Response to Reply #52
66. No, seriously, I couldn't possibly... Well maybe one more slice of anchovy,,,
Enjoy your stay...
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Egalitariat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
56. I'm with you until some animal kidnaps, rapes, tortures, and kills a child
then I'm for repealing the 4th Amendment.
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dontfollowmeb Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
59. Must of Lost My Post
So Again,,12 Reasons why we should have it,,12 Die in a Terrorist attack on Ft Hood
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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 06:07 AM
Response to Original message
67. #6 makes me want to puke...
This is more of that "Well he wrote a children's book so lets forgive his 4 previous murders"... :puke:
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
68. --
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