Mens' Rights groups redux...

[truth2power]

There was a recent thread regarding this that's now fallen to page 3 or so.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6964333#6967399

**If the mods want to append my comments to the above link they can do so, but I believe there would be few responses at this point, due to the original having fallen off the page.


I'm here to say that I am ENCOURAGED to see that fathers' rights groups are finally getting a forum in this country. Before the flames begin, I would like to state that I am female, I am a licensed clinical (independent) social worker and I am not anti-feminist nor a misogynist.

The Cliff Notes version of my experience is that over the past year and a half my son has been driven into financial ruin because of a contentious divorce driven ENTIRELY by his (now) ex-wife's litigation in the Family Courts over what amounts to trivia. And the only beneficiaries are the lawyers.

I hesitate to go into great detail with this because, even though the divorce was final months ago, (non)-issues are still in litigation. That, and a discussion of the past year's events would fill a book. Those here who want to attack my position can do so. I know what I am talking about. I've lived it.

Suffice it to say that at the time of the separation my son and daughter-in-law were drowning in debt. There was nothing, and I mean NOTHING to fight over. No property (the house was in foreclosure), no stocks, summer homes, yachts, antiques, etc. Nothing.

To date, attorney fees incurred for litigation over non-issues amounts to something over $40,000. I say "incurred" because, while some of that amount has been paid, some will never be paid. There is no money left.

I'm willing to speak before any group that will have me, with the intention of raising awareness about the abominable state of Domestic Relations courts in this country and encouraging steps toward reform.

In my view, there are many lawyers out there who have no business practicing family law. Unless they are committed to being problem-solvers as well as lawyers, they should find another area of expertise. This goes for family law court judges as well.

In that regard, the University of Dayton (Ohio) Law School promotes the idea of "Lawyer as Problem-Solver". What a novel idea!

In addition, I've observed that some lawyers are seeing the utility of having a graduate social work degree as well as as JD. And I know of one school of social work that offers or is thinking of offering a dual-track, law/social work degree.

These are the kind of people we need in our family law courts. Something has got to be done to assure that people who know something about family dynamics are making crucial legal decisions that have the potential to negatively impact family members who aren't even parties to the case.



ETA> To clarify... When I refer to men's rights groups I mean outside groups, not any DU group or forum.

[geek tragedy]

1. How is the issue of bad lawyers a men's or women's issue? nt

[truth2power]

3. Bad lawyers in general is not the subject of my post...

Bad lawyers who aspire to practice family law is most certainly a men's/women's issue.

[Lance_Boyle]

2. whatever did happen to the mens' issues forum?

The thread author said there had been contact with the admin., then nothing more was posted. Is the forum approved? Rejected? Is it *really* that controversial of a request?

[tekisui]

5. One thread author was TS'd.

So, I don't think they are still in communication.

[jonnyblitz]

7. and good riddance to that ASSHOLE. nt

[TreasonousBastard]

4. Ther are all sorts of rights, justice, and other legitmate concerns, but...

these discussions tend to end up in a big fight over some detail. The radically pissed off on both sides somehow manage to smother any legitimate concerns in layers of rabid rhetoric.

Men's groups? Not a bad idea when there is a real concern, but how many of them are fronts for assholes, or soon become overrun with the assholes. Same with women's groups that look for solutions to real problems, but can easily become just a sounding board for how evil men are.

There are real problems out there that we might have a chance to solve if we stop yelling and listen a little.

Lawyers who try to solve problems instead of encouraging more litigation is a good start.

[truth2power]

6. That discussions often end up in a fight is no reason

to refrain from facing the issue. Someone has got to bring some sanity, or at least shine a light on the problems with our family courts.

[TreasonousBastard]

10. Didn't say it was. I suppose I was...

a bit gobsmacked after peeking into that other thread and a little obsessed myself with the rabid rhetoric and talking past each other. And it gets a lot worse that that thread, of course.

Here in the US we're overly dependant on various adversarial systems to resolve disputes and I don't have any great ideas how to change that. A good divorce (if any can be called good) is agreed to by all parties and the judge just signs off on it. I have no idea how to stop things when it gets ugly and one party decides to wreak vengeance through the courts.

But, yeah, keep talking up the problems and someone just might eventually come up with a solution.

[truth2power]

11. Thanks. I wasn't referring to you personally. I just wish people

could step back and think about doing something about the problem.

[truth2power]

8. LOL! I never paid attention to this before...

because I think the "unrec" thing is basically silliness on stilts.

What does <0 mean? Must be a lot of people unrecing this thread.

If so, it means a lot of people just want to dismiss the issue out of hand. I rest my case.

[NYC_SKP]

9. A couple of points worth making:

I agree that mens' issues or fathers' issues forums have value, though they can get out of hand (like any forum).

I am pretty sure that a DU Mens' Issues group is under consideration.

I agree with these this statement from the reply linked in your post:

1) I still nurture the dream that someday feminists and fatherhood activists can understand each other and work together.

Of course, not all topics appropriate to a mens' issues forum would relate to fatherhood or relationship, but ideally we would all be working together, regardless of which sex we happen to have ended up being.

:patriot:

[truth2power]

12. Thanks for your reasoned reply. Note that I edited my OP to add

that I wasn't referring to any men' issues group that may or may not be created here.

I meant men's rights groups in the country at large. There is one group called "Fathers & Families". I think that Glen Sacks individual mentioned in the other thread is a part of that.